/osrg/ – Old School Renaissance General: Thuba Mleen Edition

Other good megadungeons with hexcrawls around them include Barrowmaze, The Forbidden Caverns of Archaia, and ASE.
Barrowmaze is undead themed
Forbidden Caverns has a lot of evil humanoids (goblins, orcs, minotaurs, etc.)
ASE is a gonzo science fantasy dungeon set in the distant future where the land is ruled by wizards.

It's shit, just play AD&D

Obligatory shilling, etc, etc.
coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html

I wrote TotSK to introduce new players to OSR games and dungeon crawling. It's got stuff that /can/ influence a larger campaign (a basilisk you can theoretically tame, a snake-man lich who wants to turn people into potions, etc.)

But it's not really about the campaign, it's about the dungeon. It /might/ be useful to you, but I'm not sure. Scanning it for ideas might help you focus your own thoughts though.

But they both have the same acronym, user. Though AD&D is a good choice regardless.

A module that can help you in designing towns is City-State of The Invincible Overlord from Judge's Guild. A lot of the places and neighborhoods can be lifted straight from the module and used to populate your town.

I swear to god Skerps, every time you post this you make me work on a learning dungeon to introduce new Referees/DMs/GMs to OSR games and dungeon crawling.

Was this you?
If so, all the Courtesan stuff from last thread applies. Be careful with it.

What about Witch/Inquisitor combo instead of Witch/Hexer? Make it really asymetric in a way.

But yeah, it's not bad.... but here's the thing.

Fighters solve fighting problems. In OSR games, fights are risky as hell. Fighters are like fire extinguishers. They are the emergency backup man for the dangerous situation.

Mages/Wizards are tasked with the magic problems. Identifying shit, dealing with orthogonal problems (really unconventional stuff), and knowing things.

Thieves/Rogues are about not getting into problems in the first place. They scout, they sneak they pick locks, and they circumvent problems.

(Clerics/Sages deal with specialized problems like undead and fatigue, and don't really fit into this system. They're a novelty class. Same with the Courtesan and social problems)

But then there's the Archer. What problem do they solve? Fight that guy far away? How often does that come up? And the witch/hexer? What problem in a meta sense do they solve?

Well, time to get to work! It's worth doing!

A learning hexcrawl would also be cool.

melancholiesandmirth.blogspot.com/p/procedural-generation-of-hex-crawl-world.html Its more of how to make a hex crawl than how to run a hex crawl but still. I need to finish 3 more terrains for wilderness encounters (Make like 10? more monsters and give 30+ more monsters meaningful spoors, tracks, and lairs), write up some meaningful fortified keeps like castles and towers, and consolidate all my rules and procedures for how the wilderness is explored before I move onto editing all of it into a cohesive document.

I was thinking more of a pre-stocked map with basic features (like Hot Springs Island, but where each hex also teaches you a thing that you'll need in the next hex), but your generator is damn good too, so don't feel bad! It's looking great.

You don't really need to lecture me on game design. I know what the classes are for, that's why I had a three class system to begin with.

The support/cleric or sage class is absolutely NOT a novelty class, and they certainly 'don't fit in the system'. In a game where you take risks and damage, you need have a way to recover or heal. In most dungeons, undead creatures are the worst enemies and are pretty common, but in my game they're even more generalist since they can turn or command supernatural creatures, animated objects, plants, animals, and people in that order of increasing difficulty and level requirement. Plus the ability to cure/suspend curses and poison is a lifesaving ability, and they identify magic. They're an all around support class.

However the reason why I wanted to introduce a ranger fighting class is because not every single problem needs to have just one way or class to solve it, and because fighters with the best armor and health typically want to get in close and 'tank' hits, but they're equally good at using bows and arrows. It seems kind of like a unnecessary ability, and would work better with a class with less baggage. Like not getting the heaviest armor or weapon skills, but getting to get extra ammo and use super powerful mercenary crossbows and longbows with special magic arrows and such.

As for as the Witch/Hexer class, that's the one I'm trying to get help with and think about. If all the other general classes get 2 versions, why not the mage? As long as they don't break out of their support niche. There are a lot of people out there who want to play as the evil or dark magic user instead of just the Sage.

I suggested last thread that you add in crowd control for the witch class. You could use that instead of magic damage. You could also add in stuff like transmutation and illusion and the like. Still support, but more of an offensive support.

Why are so many people butthurt when it comes to a good list of selective classes? Throw Thieves, Rangers, Barbarians, etc. in and suddenly its just REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Players like having character options aside from Fighter and Magic-User you twats. You should be encouraging their desire to even play your stupid fucking campaign.

Because it's a feature that existed first in the supplement books of OD&D and was transferred to AD&D. The basic editions of D&D lacked those extra classes, so the parts of the OSR that prefer Basic will generally exclude them.

I don't see what's wrong with having the Monks, Paladins, or Rangers in a game. But for some the simplicity is one of the things that draws them to (the basic inspired section of) OSR gaming.

It's reductionist bullshit. I actually like reduced or focused classes, but it's garbage when you consider the original games had ELF, which was basically just a fighter/MU hybrid, DWARF which is just a smaller fighter with infra vision and sensing things, and HALFLING which is just a shitty thief clone. The original classes were never paragons of game design anyway, what with Clerics and MUs using the same system but with arbitrary spell list differences.

It's just nostalgia fag wank. The original creators of the game let players play as a vampire, and even said they would let players play as a Balor but they'd have to balance it out with everyone else at first level. It's a meme.

New DM here, been generating a dungeon using Appendix A in the back of the DMG. Here's how it's turning out so far.

I'm gonna run it with my group on friday as like a test run to get the hang of the system.

I've been generating the dungeon itself using the AD&D DMG, and then stocking the rooms using the table in Moldvay's BX book. I used the DMG for rolling monsters and treasure and then switched halfway through to using the BX book.

>You don't really need to lecture me on game design.
Wasn't intending to lecture, just to raise a possible problem.
>n a game where you take risks and damage, you need have a way to recover or heal.
And some games solve that with natural healing/a potion or meal economy, not a specific "we get to do more stuff" class. But anyway, the role of a cleric is debatable, and weird. Do they heal? Are they a CIA underground spook? And how does "turn undead" work anyway?

So be it.
> ranger fighting class is because not every single problem needs to have just one way or class to solve it,
Right, but it's still just a Fight. You've got two classes competing to solve the same problem, and one of them is very situational.

"Hey guys, hang back so I can shoot them from here while you sit around and do nothing" vs "hey guys, we're underground in a tunnel, I cant' do anything!"

I mean, it can work, but it's worth considering.
>ghters with the best armor and health typically want to get in close and 'tank' hits,
Ah, that's a different thing entirely. (I called my tank class "Knight"). Aggro+being able to take damage vs. being able to deal out damage is a very useful fighter split.

You're making me want to go out, buy some graph paper, and make a dungeon at work user.

Make a dungeon OF your work, bro.

Dunno man. I ain't troubled. I mean, I have a class whose sole power and niche is letter writing, and another one who only fights ghosts.

But I don't cater to my players either. They don't build characters to suit their tastes; they roll up stats, pick an option, and try that out. I don't need recruit players by building a Catgirl Half-Seductress Half-Catomancer class.

Posted in the wrong thread because it's morning and fuck waking up properly just yet, also people in this thread may have missed some lovely map comparisons in the previous.

That's a lovely map, but the modern borders make it look (at a glance) smaller in some ways - use some historical borders showing a clusterfuck of small countries and states, then you're comparing things well.

Goddamn wasteland of a map, though.

I'm sure I've seen some people mention they reversed the castles and towns on the map, but I'm not sure from memory what difference that makes.

actually the original d&d had HOBBIT which was just a shitty small fighting man.

There's nothing that a barbarian or ranger can do that isn't done better by not having that class and just having a fighter. Characters are allowed to have personalities and backgrounds outside of their class abilities, and I don't see character personalities and backgrounds as a good enough excuse to give certain characters bonuses by being slightly angrier than normal or by forbidding other classes from navigating or finding food outside.

Thief is more accepted, but even that falls into the same category for a lot of people.

So even though my skill is in boxing, my friend who grew up hunting should have the same ability as me to find food in the wild, an urbanite who's shot a gun like 5 times at best?

That kinda shit translates into character creation. It's asinine to lump everyone as "equally good at everything except either magic or fighting."

>Skerples new blog points about aliens
>Mass Effect aliens with entirely nonhuman cultures and biologies
>Literally pulls out 'wow except the hanar they're just rubber forehead aliens xd'

And I thought you couldn't sink any lower, Christ.

Oh good, a new thread, time to shill my blog: Actual plays and content, all coming

thedicemustroll.blogspot.ca/2017/10/adventurer-conqueror-king-system-3b.html

In the section on body plans, user. They're completely fine and possibly even great for Sections 1 and 2, but kind of mediocre when it comes to being, you know, actually alien.

It's space opera, so it's not really a great comparison, but does provide a really blunt example. People designing aliens tend to go with human body plans because they're familiar and sensible and easy. In Sections 1-3, it doesn't matter at all. In Section 4, it's a trope you need to kill.

Context matters, user.

>That's a lovely map, but the modern borders make it look (at a glance) smaller in some ways - use some historical borders showing a clusterfuck of small countries and states, then you're comparing things well.
It's Google Earth, user. I have no clue how the fuck I'd even begin with that.

>It's asinine to lump everyone as "equally good at everything except either magic or fighting."
This line of thinking is how you get skill systems, which people around here aren't too fond of. People aren't equally good at everything except fighting or magic, there just isn't any demand for mechanical distinction by most people who play OSR.

Not to mention, most people use quasi-medieval settings, where it makes sense that the average person is at least somewhat acquainted with foraging

Are there any OSR blogs that are really into game design theory, analyzing the rules and so on? I know of Delta's blog, and that's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for more of.

Not A Blog, but you know off the odd74 board, right? It has some of that. Sometimes.

There's unfortunately only one Delta that I am aware of.

>odd74
Not him but it trips me out a bit that there's an active forum for OD&D historical discussion in 2017. It feels like something that'd feel more at home in the early oughties at most

Really? Seems to me it's something that required a healthy period of D20 to really get going as an independent thing.

I'm glad it exists, though. Don't forget their secret piracy board (board number 63, if it asks you for a password then it's drow).

Wanna bet that wizard will bitch at the fighter for not beating him to the punch?

Yoon-Suin, and Weird Adventures could both work, maybe Deep Carbon Observatory as well with some tweaking

The Wilderlands of High Fantasy by Judges Guild is a classic for a reason.

Do any of the Troves have that pdf release of Fire on The Velvet Horizon? I remember it being a charity exclusive for a dumb cause and wondered if anyone picked it up and put it anywhere.

not yet to my knowledge

As someone who bought it in the dumb charity bundle I gotta wonder why people like that book. I didn't even find it particularly legible, to say nothing of the content...

I don't know, was just curious. But didn't want to support something dumb rather than the author, and don't want to blow a huge wad on a hardback unless it turns out really good. Also I heard their were nuggets of cool monsters in it.

Requesting blood & treasure 2nd edition monster manual

True AD&D

This is the laziest shitpost I've ever seen on here 10/10

>True AD&D
What do you even mean by this? What is this supposed to be in response to?
What is wrong with you, user?

Start searching the archives. It was shared in one of the PDF share threads.

I think the thread just spontaneously generates True AD&D and glogfire posts, like how a corpse spontaneously generates maggots.

Spontaneous generation is the dopest explanation for all the stupid magic monsters in D&D by far. Goblins? Oh yeah they just show up out of nothing whenever you have a dark, damp place full of gold. Spontaneously, you know.

It makes me wish I was more familiar with other early modern and medieval scientific concepts so I could use them to cover up the seams in my game world and foil metagaming science nerds.

Wilderlands map are one hex to five miles, right?

>It makes me wish I was more familiar with other early modern and medieval scientific concepts

>Bees are the smallest of birds. They are born from the bodies of oxen, or from the decaying flesh of slaughtered calves; worms form in the flesh and then turn into bees. Bees live in community, choose the most noble among them as king, have wars, and make honey. Their laws are based on custom, but the king does not enforce the law; rather the lawbreakers punish themselves by stinging themselves to death. Bees are afraid of smoke and are excited by noise. Each has its own duty: guarding the food supply, watching for rain, collecting dew to make honey, and making wax from flowers.

Other writers claim that bees are created by God to show Man a model of a perfect society, and that even a soulless animal can achieve it. Pliny says that "of all insects, bees alone were created for the sake of man".

Yep. Five miles per hex is what OD&D advocates, so that's what JG used. The Blackmoor map in FFC is ten miles per hex, though (it fits in north of the Wilderlands maps).

Nice heaven trips, by the way.

>Spontaneous generation is the dopest explanation for all the stupid magic monsters in D&D by far. Goblins? Oh yeah they just show up out of nothing whenever you have a dark, damp place full of gold. Spontaneously, you know.
here's a good variation on the concept;

gameswithothers.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/other-frontiers-dungeons-megadungeons.html

How did we get from that to the B/X "standard" of 6 miles per hex, actually?

(Not that I'm complaining, I prefer 6 miles, because it's close enough to 10 km that it lets me mentally work in metric.)

Miasma is a really great one. Disease is caused directly by bad air, rather than by things in the air as we know now. Fresh air was considered essential to health, so imagine what stale dungeon air must be like...

>Oh yeah they just show up out of nothing whenever you have a dark, damp place full of gold. Spontaneously, you know.
Not to be a nitpicker, but that's not how the medieval concept of spontaneous generation worked. Rather, the medievals thought that e.g. flies were generated *out of* rotting flesh. The "spontaneous" part is just that this occurred automatically -- spontaneously -- on the onset of decay. Their idea was basically that all flesh contains a "corruption principle" (theologically of course, all flesh is corrupt), held back only by the animating divine light of the soul. When the soul leaves the body, it falls into decay, spontaneously metamorphosizing into things like flies, worms and revolting gunk.

All of which is just to say that goblins might similarly be composted gold or decayed stone, or something. A shadow or grue might be the product of darkness itself rotting.

It also gives us a justification for plague doctor masks, which are the dopest shit ever.

>How did we get from that to the B/X "standard" of 6 miles per hex, actually?
I've often wondered myself. I think it might be from the fact that it makes one hex correspond to two leagues, or maybe it's because 6 is evenly divisible by 2 and 3, unlike 5 which is a prime.

>Rather, the medievals thought that e.g. flies were generated *out of* rotting flesh.

By "nothing" I meant the dark, damp gold stuff as a media for creation, not literally nothing, sorry.

Ah, right, sorry to regurgitate your own ideas to you, then. We're on the same page, it seems!

How would you avoid being tracked by a troll?

Which signs would you look for to know if there are trolls nearby?

Hot Springs Island or Qelong maybe ?

Ask yourself, are people and goats going missing around a given bridge?

>Which signs would you look for to know if there are trolls nearby?

Tracks.
Local woodland animals that look like they've been pounded to mush with great strength before being eaten.
Broken skulls of animals and often humans left strewn about in visible places to mark territory.
Any of the above found near a bridge, cave or somewhere giving cover from the light of the sun.

Skulls on crude poles, bones hung from trees. Caves, bridges and overhangs with a disturbing stench and aspect. Heavy chests left seemingly abandoned in the forest. Strangely anthropomorphic hills. Hard dung flecked with gold. Everyone knows that trolls eat everything including stones and that their stomachs digest everything except gold, the purest metal, which slowly gathers in their guts.

>Goblins? Oh yeah they just show up out of nothing whenever you have a dark, damp place full of gold. Spontaneously, you know.
Er, no. Careful study of the historical documents does not reveal an origin for the very first goblins, but the current crop quite clearly emerged from the Goblin Box.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQAudcov1HU

...

5. Trolls (+2 hide armor; d8 to d12 brawl and 3 to 6 HD depending on size)

-Territorial predators; but with humanlike wisdom. We are to them as prey animals are to us; but we also entice their curiosity. They treasure gold and jewels, but also other worthless things if they suspect that hold a great importance for a human. They live in caves, bridges, water bodies or anywhere they can hide from the sun. As they grow up both in age and size, their metabolism drops drastically and they start valuing rest over all other things; their naps taking more time progressivelly until full ecosystems are formed on their fur. They drift to the ocean or glaciers in order to find their shelter; or become a mountain.
-They're fast, strong and clever. Can smell things (and even feelings) from long distances. Their wounds close almost instantly and their blood has regenerating powers (mutations may happen). Trolls can re-attach severed limbs; even the head.
- Sun weakens them (1d6 damage each turn) Frightened by loud booming noises. Best protection is avoid being detected by a troll in the first place (troll repellants exist) or leaving false trails using your clothes or your blood (or somebody you don't like much).
- Signs of trolls: smashed animal corpses. Weird architecture or carved marks too tall for a human to make. At first these are made to mark their territory to other trolls, but old trolls like to leave their signs in the tallest rocks they can find; as a proof of their existance before they embark on their eternal sleep.

Something I'm writing for my own bestiary. Yeah, It's me who has opened the other thread about trolls

I'm pretty sure it has to do with math. I'm not sure if it was the original intentio, but I remember reading somewhere that distances were easier to use in a 6 mile hex.

One quick Google search later: steamtunnel.blogspot.ca/2009/12/in-praise-of-6-mile-hex.html

Its pretty sad that we ceded the discord to SJWs. We had something there. We had a community. Now? Trannies abd furries run the discord abd you can't even say "fag" or "autist" without an instaban.

This is how Veeky Forums dies. Crushed under the boot of marxist subversion.

This has NOTHING to do with OSR discussion. Go back to /pol/.

That's a nice find and it does make sense, but I wonder, did anyone here ever calculate specific distances within hexes (like, corner-to-center or such)?
Personally, I've always used hexes as more of a vague guideline and simplified the heck out of them in navigation.

3 mph walking speed means 24 miles per day (8 hours walking) covered, which is evenly distributed into 4 6-mile periods.

I've not needed to calculate distances within hexes. The players don't see the hex map, anyway.

>Players are more accustomed to 5e
>One player wants to be a barbarian
>Make him a fighter in everything but name
>Never notices

Every class is a derivative of the big 4. If they don't fit cleanly into one class, that's why multi-class exists.

>big 4

Fighter (sword), Fighter (axe), Fighter (polearm), and Fighter (bow)

Fighting Man, Fighting Woman, Magic-User, Elf.

Halfling, Wizard, Dwarf, Horse.

Only one of those is Big 4; the others are small bipeds.

Fighting-man, magic-user, other magic-user, magic fighting-man

Human, Halfling, Dwarf, Elf, obviously. The human class just has a couple options.

Fighting-man, Business-man, Gentle-man, Bildungsro-man.

Fighting Man, Magic User, Dwarf, Elf.

Mammoth, Weed, Wizard, Bastard.

I guess Weed is Hobbit?

It was originally a hobbit but Tolkien threatened to sue, so they changed the name.

Horse, zorse, Morse, gorse.

Who has the best rules for Lotus Powder? (The drug kind, not the poison kind, even if the difference can be small)

I'm thinking about using the DFD table, but I'm pretty sure I've seen a better one out there.

I want strong random effect that still stays a bit thematic. I.e. things related to sleep, magic and Dying Earth.

>Players like having character options aside from Fighter and Magic-User you twats.
Maybe if they play the standard railroad adventure campaigns which is the default among 3.PF/5e players. Railroad games need character options because there's nothing else where players can make choices.

Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth, and Slayer

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Sailor?

Just start another Discord.

Sanguine, choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic.

Conan, Conan, Gandalf, and Saint George.

For rules for drugs in general I like Ten Foot Polemic's.
tenfootpolemic.blogspot.com/2017/03/drugs.html