/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Wild Magic.

Something to make it a little more grounded and a little less lol-so-random.

a Sorc rework in general to make them a little more than "Strictly Worse Wizard" would be nice. I hope it's on their list of Revisions after Revised Ranger is finished up.

Do you understand the concept of gishes in 5e?

Beast Master Ranger
Wild Magic Sorcerer
Elements Monk
all in the sourcebook, all kind of terrible

I want to make a Warlock that is not evil. Preferably some sort of Neutral or Chaotic Neutral.

Is there a way I could spin a great old one into giving power without destroying existence or bringing plagues down?

>Flyspeed ruins all of them.
strong assertation, friend. Are the kind of guy who always just tries to blandly kill his party?

Wild magic could use a little something. Actually, PHB sorcerer was a bit shit since it gave two options that felt like they should have been the weird niche options and not the only two we got.

Burn ki to add elements to your monk attacks with concentration.
2 ki - 1d4 flat element of your choice to all attacks at level 9?

>Something to make it a little more grounded and a little less lol-so-random.
And in what other metric is the wild sorcerer to be "wild"? Not saying you can't, just want an idea here.

We can play Ad Hominums if you want.

Are you the kind of person that wants to play snowflake meme monster races?

Are you the kind of person who wants to minmax everything you possibly can and have permanent fly spell?

Random additional effects to the spells, random swapping of elements on their spells, even casting the wrong spell at times are all feasible options to remain wild while not being "u turn into a potted plant isn't that so funnyyyy?????"

I don't hate Wild Magic as it is right now, but it feels awkward to play it into a more serious campaign.

Yes, yes I do. I still think that you can pull off one caster who has an Arcane Channeling feature or something similar to it. Make it a sorcerer or something.

Yeah no shit it'd be a huge feature. I'm just saying that it would be a reward for pouring experience into something that wasn't a class. Becoming something of a paragon amongst your monster race.
Shit, I really really want to see a dragon multiclass into barbarian though.

>Strictly Worse Wizard
In a duel between a wizard and a sorcerer, the sorc will win every single time. They simply have better action economy.

I could live with that, what about an up scale for more ki? Too much?

If you can't deal with a little verticality, you're a pretty shit dm. All flitting about above the party does, tactically speaking, is isolate you from your group. Hovering 80 ft up? Well, he's an obvious threat, so all ranged weapons train on him. Hovering 600ft with Sharpshooter? Tasty snack for a wyvern **or flock of crows**.

Chaos Bolt's mechanics would work for element swapping. Maybe rolling maximum or minimum on a damage die can add additional random effects, so that as you get more powerful and throwing out huge loads of dice you start getting more visibly unstable.
And I agree that the Wild Magic should be more consistent with how often it appears, and less... tonally silly.

We could, except it's precisely a two-person game when it comes to deciding who plays what. The DM and the player finding a place to agree on. However, you seem to be pretty against the idea of a flying character, when it wouldn't be terribly hard to counter them, and easier even to give them a niche to fill in their own way. You, however, seem to be intent on restricting the player's choice and simply fall back on "it's unbalanced" as a reason for why. I would assume you're the kind of DM that just wants to kill a party, and only plays RAW, and not someone who wants to make a fun time for everyone.

You're overreacting.

Can flying totally negate some encounters? If you count a cliff as an encounter, sure, but what did struggling up that wall really add to the game? Some drama and a potential for character death on a fucking rock climb?

Any well-designed encounter has been made with the party in mind, and can't be totally skipped just because one party member has a fly speed. Intelligent monsters can and should have ranged weapons- hell, even the random goblins and orcs. Especially if they intend to hunt. Some species might even have spellcasters on their side, who can pelt the flier from afar.

Encounters shouldn't just be in open fields. Flying is almost useless in many indoor areas. It's not as broken as you think, you just need to know the party has it as an option, and work around it.

I think both Warlock and Sorcerer need to be reworked a bit. I don't know how to fix the latter, but for the former I think they could fix things by giving Warlock's more invocations. In order for the class to be at all viable there are certain invocations they MUST take, especially depending on their pact boons. Either build those invocations into the boons, the class, or give them an additional invocation. An additional Spell-slot wouldn't hurt either.

If I were DM, I'd say you could get more ki points (to spend only on Elements effects) by sacrificing monk features, but I dunno how that would balance.
...do you like Unarmored Movement? Would you give it up for 3-4 extra ki?

Another issue I have with it is the additional rolls involved, plus resolving the effects tends to slow gameplay in a way that isn't terribly fun for other people. I was wild-surging quite a bit in the campaign I played it, and I was constantly self-conscious just because of how long my turns could potentially take, even if I knew exactly what I was doing.

The great old one might grant you power without even realizing it, or caring.

A celestial warlock was spoiled in being in the next book, celestials being beings of pure good.

Fey patrons can be neutral, if weird.

Rolled up stats for CoS, in order. 8, 11, 14, 16, 12, 17 before bonuses (v. Human). Level 3. I'm thinking of going Raven Queen Warlock. Anyone have any experience with the archetype? I've also thought about multiclassing, what class would synergize with it well given my stats? Any good feats for it?

I really like unarmored movement for the mobility to help lock down ranged targets

>actually allow aaracroka at their table
sure why not. fly all you want birdbrain, you're doing 5ft hops whenever you're inside

>Flyspeed invalidates most of the early encounters completely

if you say so famalam

>Chaotic Neutral

I feel that's kind of unavoidable when the archetype leans so hard on random effects. I understand your feeling though.

>Just design the encounter around your players abilities!!1!

Guys, changing every encounter to be able to counter fly speed is the exact reason why I ban it at my table. You should be making encounters that fit the story, the environment, and the npc personalities, not busted and nonlegal monster race abilities.

I've provided with a solution to this. An item that requires attunement. I even said I'd compromise and let a player take it as a multiclass into a 'monster' level. Provided they were around the level fly speed is balanced for.

If you can't accept that, great. You don't play at my table. You can run your own table how you want to run it. You can perhaps even badger your dm into letting you have exactly what you want. More power to you.

Great Old One craves the mortal experience, to fight and to die in a gnashing of teeth and metal. As a deal it touches your mind and grants you power, as long as you often put yourself into danger, and let your mind (not soul) be devoured when you die.

Yeah, you're right. I'm not certain that's something that can be remedied, but it is something to note that feels awkward about the subclass.

In general I love the flavor of "incompetent but powerful mage" but it's just not exactly what I'm looking for.

>Just design the encounter around your players abilities
How the fuck do you plan on challenging your players in any encounter, fly speed or no? You sound like a pretty humorless, uncreative person. I feel truly sorry for the poor saps that let you inflict your campaigns on them.

jesus christ does your game fall apart when someone learns a fly spell?

Speaking of GOOs, does it sound plausible for for warlocks and other GOO touched beings to die with corrupted souls, that go on to corrupt the the divine realms?

Seems like a high level threat of course, but going out to kill bundles of madness in various afterlives because the locals can't get near them to be a solid plot.

Oh look its the Ad Homunculus at it again.

How can you beat encounters without a flyspeed crunch? You sound like a pretty petty, power hungry, snowflake minmaxer. I feel truly sorry for the bleating sheep of a dm that allows you masturbate furiously at his table while cawing like a birdo.

>Just design the encounter around your players abilities
Literally, unironically this.

>nonlegal
Do you play only at Adventurer's League? That's the only situation where "nonlegal" has any meaning.

>Guys, changing every encounter to be able to counter fly speed is the exact reason why I ban it at my table
Are all your encounters in empty fields against dudes with swords and no bows? Sounds pretty dull even without fliers.

He's just emulating Fire Emblem Gaiden/Awakening/Echoes

>tdw al cuck

Wait till he meets an eagle barb.

No, people use the fly spell in my current campaign right now. With a level 3 spell.

user, Monster races are available for players only by request by default in the rules. You can make a houserule in your own game to allow monsterous races. I usually let people play monster races in one shots or evil campaigns.

>Every Encounter is a combat encounter!!!!
KYS, also I use something akin to Angry DMs encounter building strategy for combat so....

Make more strawman. Maybe one of them will become sentient and become a better shitposter than you

>Every Encounter is a combat encounter!!!!
Well since you were talking about having to "change every encounter" I assumed that yes, we were specifically meaning combat encounters.
Unless flying somehow helps social encounters.
>Make more strawman.
A strawman is when you misrepresent the other person's position so it's easier to refute. I was just asking if your combat encounters take place in situations with no limitations to vertical movement (caves, buildings, treetops etc) against enemies with no ranged attacks (bows, spells etc). I'm gonna take your lack of response as a "yes", which explains why flight is so hard for you to deal with.

So like Fangs of the Fire Snake? Or Fist of Unbroken Air? Maybe you'd be happier with the Sun Soul's bolts?

>There MUST be a HUGE opportunity cost for this. A Class feature, an entire level, an attunement slot
Broom of Flying.

Rogue 2/Trickery Cleric X?

What's the best way to mitigate the fact that Trickery Cleric feels like a really underwhelming Trickster and a somewhat weak Cleric?

Does standing up in difficult terrain take half movement, like standing up normally does, or full movement due to difficult terrain?

You are assuming what my games are like because it is easier to do so than addressing my point. You were not asking, you were assuming. My players are currently in a large cave system fighting undead and necromancers. Swow

But if it makes you feel better, you can continue to imagine me however you want. As long as I get to continue imagining you as a buttmad, snowflake, online-only player who has been kicked out of games at least once. But who are we kidding, you and I both know it has been more than one time you got the boot.

Fangs of the fire snake were a favorite the handful of time I played, I just wish there were more options that replicate it. Fist of unbroken air is meh at best due to save

Yup, that's fine. If you really wanted to be a birdo, we could make magic wings instead as well. Reasonable suggestion.

>But who are we kidding, you and I both know it has been more than one time you got the boot.
Joke's on you, I'm a permaDM.

Also yes roughly, although I don't think they should have range. To me I figured harnessing the elements should give you the option to pretty much fight using those elements directly.

And the necromancers don't have ranged spells to deal with distant targets?

Your skeletons/zombies/whatever weren't archers in their pre-undeath life?

Your (highly intelligent) necromancers can't get net traps set up in case of people flying about?

I had a remastering of the elements subclass on my mind, able to use a few powerful ranged attacks with rider effects. They could be used as an action to deal twice unarmed damage + wis bonus, or optionally as a bonus action for one ki point (basically trading one application of ability score damage for range and rider) You could trade out either for unarmed strikes or flurry.

Don't think I got much further than that. Oh yeah, and it was dragon themed instead. Because why not.

What? They have access to fly my dude. They don't get it from a meme race though. Don't tell me all this time I've been arguing with people who don't even understand the very thing they are grognarding over.

>You are assuming what my games are like because it is easier to do so than addressing my point.
Your point is only valid in specific circumstances, which was hinted at with his rhetorical question. Stop deflecting.

When using Maneuvering Attack as a Battlemaster does the allies movement occur before or after I make the attack (or can I choose)? It would be awfully handy to tell a party member to get the hell out of the way if they're granting half cover to a creature I'm trying to shoot with a ranged attack.

Tell me what my point is, because clearly you know it better than I do. Go ahead, I'll wait for you to make a fool of yourself. If you can do it with maximum ad homuculus, you'll win extra Veeky Forums gold!

>go off script because PCs don't follow one of my several scenarios
>ends up at a seedy tavern by the sea docks (as opposed to the sky docks, rich people territory)
>They're there trying to procure a forbidden scrying stone
>it's porn, magical streaming porn
>they end up having to throw a concert to make money to buy the stone
>they sing about the glory hole in the bathroom the rogue made
>The bard and wizard put on a show, casting minor illusion spells and other cantrips to impress the drunkards
>everything goes much better than whatever I had written down

Maybe I should just improv more often as a DM. Everyone had a good time.

...how do you feel about the spell Fly?

I tweaked Wot4E for a one-shot for a player of mine like two years ago. I don't have it saved unfortunately but I'll try to write out what I recall.

They had a number of Elemental Points equal to their wisdom modifier.

They could expend a point and add 1d4 to their damage rolls for the rest of the turn, the type could be Fire, Cold, Lightning, or Force damage.

They could expend a point to make a ranged attack, 30 feet, of one of the above elemental types, equal to their martial arts die+1d4.

As a reaction they can expend 2 points to gain resistance to a type of elemental damage until the start of their next turn.

They can expend two Elemental Points to cast Burning Hands, Thunderwave, or Gust of Wind.

That's about all I remember.

It's almost as if you've forgotten your argument is that racial flying speed invalidates or trivializes all three pillars of dnd gameplay.
But no, do go on and keep deflecting. If you never address a single counterpoint then you can pretend they're not valid, right?

So you just want smites, then? Yawn.

Wording looks like after. But you could use that on your first attack and get them moved before your other attacks.

3/4 movement?

>What class or subclass do you most want to see redone?
Depends on what you mean by redone.

Rewritten from the ground up? 4elements monk. No contest.

Revised more like Rangers? Warlock. I like the direction, but it has so much untapped potential. It should have more clear progression and options in Eldritch Blast, which should be a feature that scales with Warlock level, and works off whatever pact you have. I always felt like EB, as it is now, should have been tied directly to the pact boon.

>Blade Pact lets you make x amount of attacks with the weapon die and strength/Dex + EB damage, where x is the amount of missiles the EB would make according to your level. Raw power, and none of the utility effects.

>Pact of tome is more or less like now, with the movement and field control abilities it has. Power as the EB has now, but with a ton of utility.

>Pact of Chain let's the Warlock attack directly through the familiar, letting him potentially not even be in any kind of harm by not even being in the same room. Alternatively, EB can only be used as a bonus action, and casts through the familiar, freeing up the action to use on another spell on the Warlock spell list, creating a better synergy between them.

Invocations should not have anything to do with EB. They should be more or less like they are now, but mandatory ones should be folded into the pact boon (extra attack, Cha damage, rituals, etc) leaving just the flavourful options like Disguise Self, beguiling influences, Eldritch Sight, etc. Possibly with slightly reduced invocations, especially at lower levels, so we don't get all the multiclassing cheese.

Feedback appreciated, lads.

>Just want smites
No I just want have my hands be on fire, covered in rocks, encased in wind or water and have unarmed attacks do one of the major four elements damage at the cost of ki for a duration. You know something you'd figure a monk would do using the elements instead of just duplicating spells.

>What class or subclass do you most want to see redone?
Land circle druids feel a little underwhelming given the other option.

>What class or subclass do you most want to see redone?
Champion. Either that or add another Fighter focused on just being a better Fighter. Some games I don't want to be master swordsman Eric who can super anime attack 4 times per day, I want to be Dave the guy who beats the fuck outta shit all day long.

>Depends on what you mean by redone.
It was intended to be open to interpretation.

Also, seconded on the rest.

Mmk, that's kind of what I figured.

>Warlock
Honestly I would be happy if they removed spellcasting from it completely, gave it more invocations with more interesting effects and used the 3.5 style Eldritch Blast.

Back then you could chose shapes and effects for it. So you might use Chain EB which forks between enemies combined with Fire EB which changes the damage to fire. So now your EB is like a web of hellfire darting between enemies. Make EB ALL of the warlock's offensive potential, but let them mix it up.

Sounds exciting. Totally worth a whole subclass.

>What class or subclass do you most want to see redone?

Sorcerer. The absolute state of 'em. Sorcerer is my favorite but I just play wizard instead.

see
My argument was that flying is powerful for level 1 characters, and additionally, races should not give the equivalent of a level 3 spell. If I wanted to play that game I would give another player a race that lets them cast fireball as a cantrip. The thing is, flyspeed isn't innately bad if there is an opportunity cost to it, like burning a spell slot, getting it through a class feature, or having a magic item that grants it. There are tons of ways to get flyspeed. Why must you have flyspeed as a level 1 racial ability? You can't have it any other way? Really? Yikes.

>more clear progression and options in Eldritch Blast
>literally the most cancerous an uncreative thing about warlock

not him and I don't give a shit about monks and never play them but that sounds way cooler than what Wot4E currently is and is also not covered by a current class or archetype

>covered in rocks
And that would do... what? Rock damage? Boring AF.

So for character reasons I'm thinking of multiclassing into Artificer for 1 level on my Fighter. Mostly because it's the only way I can see to get double proficiency in Smith's Tools.

Am I missing any other way to get it?

There are tons of ways to get flying speed. Why must you flip out over one of many options?

Thanks m8 glad you like it

What ever would be closest to an earth style attack, possibly force would be the closest. That is the one issue they don't have a real "earth element" so it's take a little gymnastics to make one fit

My fiance is getting into DnD and she's playing a warlock now. She's not especially great thinking outside the box, but she wanted to be a caster. I figured that a warlock is a pretty simple class, as it's pretty much revolved around EB.

Which tome should I guide her into taking? She likes the idea of having a cool familiar, and I have no qualms fluffing it to be an animal she likes (Cat dragon, Cat imp, pretty much Cat X).

Any advice I can give her? I'm the DM and don't want to tip my hand into what they're going to get into, but I don't want her to feel useless or bad. I want her to enjoy the game and learn more about it, so she can play more advanced classes later.

> flying is powerful for level 1 characters, and additionally, races should not give the equivalent of a level 3 spell.

That's why it should be made more creative. It is literally one of the reasons I want ot see ot redone.

Are you retarded, or just suffering from crippling autism that makes you lash out at things without reading through it properly?

Let her have the familiar, make sure it's clever and slightly independent. If she or the group seems to be having trouble figuring out something that should be obvious (Using silver against were-creatures always seems to be a big one) then you can always drop hints from the familiar. So it makes a good plot device.

Are undead more prone to being damaged by radiant energy or not really?

If I wanted to make a character resistant to laced food or drink what should I look at?

That's assuming the sorcerer happened to have the right spells on hand to duel a wizard, which he's less likely to have with his much smaller pool. Assuming the two characters were built with the sole purpose of dueling each other, I bet Abjuration wizard could take any sorcerer, especially past level 14.

What's he going to do, counter subtle spells?

Well if it can be considered a poison then dwarf is the way to go

5e has always seemed a little too slavishly devoted to trying to keep spellcasting as uniform as possible even across very different classes.