Muh unstoppable genetically engineered gods of war

>me unga
>them bunga
get mad at post dumb cavemen

Basically this. The official people behind this world have kindly given us exact stats and a way to resolve those stats between units to find statistical answers to who can beat who. Fluff sucks and varies wildly (mostly where the protags of any given book are wanked to ludicrous levels) and as such shouldn't be trusted for powerlevel facts. Tabletop gives us clear, reliable answers.

Yes. The one that I remember is from the First Heretic when a WB Chaplin got his throat torn out by a menial.

Sure, and you use Warhammer Historical to judge the ballistics of a Gw98 or the endurance of the typical commonwealth soldier, too?

So does horus pre avatar of chaos solo most of the primarchs?

Blanks sort of have an unfair advantage against most things.

The fluff holds no answers beyond vagueitys.

This is because the fluff is bullshit and constantly changes from edition to edition, codex to codex, novel to novel.

Marines can be shown as gods of war who can wipe out a planet by themselves, and yet in another book an entire company is wiped out by Necrons or something.

The Tyranids are an unstoppable, all-consuming force that eats everything in its way. Except for when they aren't and the Imperial Guard defeats a horde of them.

The Guard are also shown to be so laughably incompetent in everything(logistics, tactics, morale, ect) that Regiments are obliterated by the minute because a Commander underestimated the situation, or the logistical people misplace 100 Baneblades. But in other books, the Guard are a well oiled machine, capable of holding their own(albeit with some bureaucratic bullshittery and incompetence, but hey, every military has that, even in the real world).

So fuck off with the fluff. 40k is best enjoyed when you boil all pieces of the fluff down to their basic synopsi and fill in the details yourself. To do so otherwise is to drive yourself to madness; trying to make sense of the retcons and contradictions.

>IT'S ALL OGRE NOW

The rules say he does. Why not?

Because vulkan would kick his ass pre chaos.

Says who? We never see Vulkan fight any of the other Primarchs except Kurze. He was never said to be a great fighter just really strong. You don't know shit.

Vulkans a prepetual, I doubt horus could kill him for good

If you let Vulkan infinitely resurrect then he can defeat Horus ruleswise. Problem solved.

>>a tactical marine will statistically lose a battle against three guardsman

Not in previous editions. And the guardsmen also cost more points.

fluff is atrociously inconsistent
you'll have the range of jobs to hobo to swats greater daemon like nothing for every faction

The fluff states that all space marines are gay. They have narrow urethras and large buttholes.

Didn't Horus permamurder a perpetual already?

>the fluff is bullshit and constantly changes from edition to edition,
So does the crunch

In the end, only cannon fags care about that sort of thing, and nobody likes them anyways.

yeah but for all the talk of Marines being ultra badasses you'd think a tac squad could at least take on 20 guardsmen and win, whereas in reality the guardsmen mop the floor with them.

To be brutally honest primaris stats are what generic marines should've always had, they're just such chumps that they really don't evoke that "elite" feeling they're supposed to have. Especially when they talk about even tac squads being jack of all trades solid all rounders but then you get into the game and realize the tac squad is one of the worst units in the game.

I say this as a guard player who frequently watches new space marine players fall into the trap of not realizing that their army is nowhere as elite as they're lead to believe it is. Watching a new player all excited to try his army only to watch his marines get their teeth kicked in by conscripts and infantry squads is kind of sad.

That goes double for chaos marines. For what are supposed to be veterans of thousands of years of combat they tend to run from combat more than guardsmen do and are in no way tougher than loyalist marines for the most part. Yet in the lore a single chaos marine can eviscerate an infantry squad in seconds. My reaction when I see chaos space marines, even their basic squads, should be "oh shit those guys are gonna tear me a new one," and not, "Meh, most of them won't even make it across no man's land."

I'm not saying marines should be able to solo entire armies or anything, but I feel like if I'm going up a space marine army I should actually have some sort of fear, or at least some some worry that they could actually do some damage. As it is they just kind of feel trivial to beat and somewhat laughable for the most part.

This. Bolt rifles are what normal bolters should be (only bouncing off a shirtless Catachan's abs 1/6 of the time). 2 attacks each because these dudes have been training all sorts of stupid space kung-fu for centuries, 2 wounds because they are supposed to be actually hard to take out and not die to the first flashlight they see.

>So does the crunch

No shit, that's the entire point of an edition change.

>t. tau player who whoops 14 year olds

Well, here are some rules for you.

You got the other pages?

Exactly. And it's the reason why powerlevel threads are meaningless.

honestly, i wish they were that

would make DEldar so much better

...

We should adapt them for 8th ed.

>Daemons
Are immortal
>Necrons
Reanimation Protocols
>Eldar
Craftworlds depending on the author have millions or billions of Eldar to replenish losses.

To be clear I wasn't talking about what faction has the worst crunch, rather who has the largest fluff disconnect. A single Space Marine can do an unrealistic amount of stuff single handed in fluff where a single tabletop marine is unimpressive compared to other faction's troops.

But we should go beyond the basics and make super-plasmas and all kind of wicked shit.

>Oh hi Grimnaar

a single demon can murder a squad of marines like they are made of paper mache in fluff

eldar are so fast marines cant even respond to them

necrons can take anything short of exterminatus and get back up like its nothing

...

That's primarily due to the rules changing so much. Back in the day, a space marine would out fight 90% of a factions elite troops since W4 and I4 was better than anything bar Banshees and the odd melee troop and most models you shot at were 5+ saves at best.

The power creep has changed that so a tactical squad in cover would be less than a murder machine and more a nuisance at best in the same way that a Land Raider used to be a OH GOD ITS COMING THIS WAY to a 'well just get those meltas there lol' thing.

Blame the fluff guys no longer being involved in the crunch and having a fixed idea of how factions should function.

Basically GW needs to clean up the fluff instead of having random power levels in every book.

If we're adapting them, why not give them all the basic statline of a captain in current 8th? Then adapt the guns new Ap values as correlates to the 8th versions but souped up. So lascannon could be strength 14, ap-5?

Dude.

The WH40KRPG do have stats that fit the fluff.

Space marines can kill a bunch of guardsman, and necons are a rape machine.

Ok let's roll.

S4 T4 seems a bit weak.
Also armor should be 2+ with the new AP system IMO.
2D6 attacks for 'nades, 3D6 for super krak?