/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

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cancerous game lines

Writing a Changeling: The Lost setting and Ive realized how much more attentive I need to be with "Da Rules" in Goblin Markets, Hedge Settlements and the Freehold itself.
What are some rules and tricks with the wording of rules that I should keep in mind?
Ive already got stuff like "MONARCHS cant use their station to directly influence mortal townsfolk and their businesses"
But they can have their constituents try.

Ayo hol up, so Changeling is like the longest journey game?

Im guessing you mean Neverending Story
Sure, acceptably apt. Its like that crossed with Labyrinth and a more grounded Shadowrun

How much trouble to VtR players have keeping their blood pools full? Do you burn through them quickly, or have trouble refilling them?

What are the differences between CrĂșac witchcraft and Theban sorcery?

It depends heavily which Disciplines one uses one how one feeds. Those with one-use powers like Celerity or Dominate can wind up burning too much blood and easily being hungry or starving by the end of the encounter.
Stuff like Obfuscate not only costs less blood, but just the fact that you can turn invisible means way less Vitae used overall.

If one if the Kindred feeds by using Majesty and the Gravitas of their personality will have a more consistent amount of Vitae while someone who feeds from Animals or by attacking people will likely be cutting it close more often.

As long as youre above 5 its fine, and almost all applications of Vitae (Aside from 1 for daily reanimation) are extremely optional.

The biggest pitfall is if your ST is a stickler for Feeding Rights and well guarded Domains. It's a good idea to restrict your Vitae use in a new town, especially before you find out if theres a "Sympathetic" Kindred willing to make a deal for feeding rights.

How would you fix Beast withot completely changing it?

Spay or Neuter your Beasts

Which OWoD books explain much of the lore for Vampire and Mage in plain English and no ridiculous 90s slang

Vampfags are literally the worst

Uh, okay.

How much trouble do CtL players have keeping their Glamor pools full? Do you burn through them quickly, or have trouble refilling them?

Literally nothing

Just keep exploiting those catches.

So I've never played a WoD game other than videogame stuff. Is something like, say, Vampire actually played with PnP, set campaigns, etc? The way I've seen people talk about the "Storyteller" stuff makes it seem very unorthodox

It's not unorthodox. You do whatever the fuck you want.

It's not linear hack n' slash shit like D&D.

cwod question:
can vampire disciplines increase attributes past their generation limit? Like that vicissitude level 4 power.

Are Celerity and Dominate really vitae-intensive in Requiem? They seem really efficient.

Depends on the generation.

They are efficient. But can be taxing.

inb4 "mages can do it better"

>Make the water in someone's body rebond as H2O2 instead of H2O.
>They explode

Found my new Life/Matter attack.

...

Where on the Morality tracks of the various splats do you eventually stabilize? Is it feasible to stay at a level above your starting Morality?

where is the darksight merit in v20 dark-ages?

>when you're playing a Hunter game, rescue children from the hedge, and then you realise you're the only character willing to hunt down and murder the child's fetch so they can be safe
>when you have to awkwardly explain how you hunt down and murder child lookalikes and have to hide their bodies until they turn to trinkets
>when, despite the penalties to the roll, you somehow succeed the integrity check and come out of that business with 8 integrity still and the knowledge you did the right thing even if the rest of the cell in game won't look you in the eye

Man, that was a session for sure.

In 1e I always liked to get my characters down to about 3 Morality. Across the game lines I found this to be the place with the least amount of negatives for a typical amoral character out for themselves and with little regard for collateral damage.

1 Vitae a Turn for Celerity can grow taxing fast, especially since it can have such an impact on your survivability that a young Kindred with Celerity and a knack for combat can wind up "Punching Up" more often. Same goes for Dominate, if you roll well on its most abusable power you take your target out if the equation for a few turns, but each time you do it is another 10th of your Energy (Or 1/5th if youre trying to avoid Hunger)

Picture this, a Neonate wakes up for the night, if he was full when he went to sleep he just burned 1/10th of his Blood Pool.
When he drops to 1/2 his current pool he is at risk of Frenzy pretty regularly, potentially draining his WP as he resists the Beast.
Once youre hungry you gotta be careful about going into Elysium, other Kindred will be quick to spot this and potentially take advantage. If he does feed he might very well kill his Capri Sun without intending to, causing MORE problems down the line and/or Degeneration.

If you get hurt during any of this you get taxed AGAIN as you heal (Its been a while and as I recall Kindred dont passively heal over time as "living" characters do in the other Splats, and have to eventually spend the blood necessary to heal. I could be wrong and we just didnt read it closely enough)

Maybe your Sire or Lord of Domain who grants you feeding rights imparts a "Tax" on you and you need to fight harder to get the amount of blood you actually need.

do you think it would be feasible to derive a fan-splat from the Thief in Antagonists (p.25) ?
>supernatural-eaters that grow more human in appearance and gain in power as they consume other monsters
>immune to supernatural phenomena but vulnerable to mundane attacks
what could lead those to band together ? what kind of situations outside of hunting and be hunted can you put them in ? would you play one ?
that being said, they could also integrate hunter cells

I usually intend to stay in the middle and then either soar to 8-9 or plummet to 0 and change character (either way)

A very powerful Mummy (Or Vampire, or Spirit, whatever) is waking up. The Thieves form a band to work to claim this power before it fully awakens. Either Vampire-Type teamwork where they all plan to betray everyone and claim the power themselves or under the guidance of either a Turncoat that shares a bearing with the target (The Vampire Prince certainly doesn't want the Old Prince waking up, it will be easier to betray the Thieves than his predecessor) or as a Cell of Thieves trying to gain some overarching power. (If we eat this Changeling King, we can forge our own deal that will remove our weakness to Mundane threats/Time)
The Human Hunter Cell wants its destroyed rather than Hoarded or want to claim something from one of the groups themselves

>and no ridiculous 90s slang

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE

How does one get into Faerieland?

You could make a deal with the chantry

Is mage improved as much by pretending the other game lines don't exist as the other games are by pretending mage doesn't exist?

Not really.
One of the better parts of Mage is realising that not everything Supernatural is Supernal.

Mages are cosmic busybodies, and sticking their noses into stuff that really isn't their business for Arcane Beats is a good way to ensure that they encounter the Hubris theme.

It's a bit harder to explore Hubris when all your enemies are just as powerful as you, if not more so.

my cock is sooo fucking hard

>1 Vitae a Turn for Celerity
But Celerity is free except for super sprinting, extra actions and initiative. Or are you talking about 1e?

Yeah okay but what if you made up your own supernatural non-supernal beings?

Anyone play Mummy? Is it like pic related?

These are some good ideas, thanks for chipping in

Focus on the Heroes and make it more ambiguos

That's... Pretty normal.
There's only so much you can get out of the default canon Supernaturals.

Not really. Mages can explore the entirety of the setting because the Arcana literally make up the entirety of the setting. There's a lot of potential for exploring all the weird stuff, a lot of potential for Mysteries. That's fun and interesting, but it's also why Signs of Sorcery is going to be a purely Mage supplement, full of stuff only Mages can encounter. Since they cover all the bases, it can often seem like they don't have much of a base of their own. They do have one, of course, but building that base up is the right move.

So what is the problem with mages and crossover then?

You mean player crossover?

When more than one kind of supernatural plays together yes. Mages vampires and werewolves together and such.

Gee wiz fella, let's list all the things wrong with Mages, shall we?

They're not monsters
They're stronger than everyone
They intrude on all other lines
They can solve every issue ever
They can do literally anything
Certain Arcana hard counters certain splats
Creative thaum is broken as fuck
Kinetic shields
Practically superheroes
Archmages

Crossover play is a bad idea in general, unless you're prepared to make a lot of changes and ignore a lot of things. They also need a reason to be working together, which is the conceit of Contagion Chronicle and what Beast tried and failed to do so horribly. Also, while might be half wrong and a heaping pile of salt, he's also half right. Mages just don't play well with others. They weren't designed to.

>Mage powers are dot-to-dot more powerful than almost every other splat
>Mage powers are invariably dot-to-dot more flexible than every other splat
>Mages mystic compulsions are mostly self-imposed, with enough (roleplaying) effort they can ignore a Mystery
>Mages can resolve most 'lesser' splat issues with a single roll. Prime at 1 dot can detect if someone is lying, give clues about the truth of the matter, and any shielding effect will at best merely inform them that you're shielding your lies/truth from detection of its true nature
>Mages have incredibly broken abilities that render most other splat's main interests obsolete. What's the point of chasing down and hunting someone as a Uratha, if the group's Mage can seal them in a bubble of looped space until they asphyxiate into unconsciousness?
>Mages can with minimal effort dispel other Supernatural's powers. Fraying alone can cancel an active power if in the appropriate arcanum, e.g. Fate 3 can cancel all Contracts, Death 3 can prematurely end disciplines, Spirit 3 can end Gifts

Really, unless the Mage player takes special care to ensure that they don't overshadow the rest of the group, there's little worse that can happen to a group of lesser supernaturals than adding a Mage PC.

On that topic, here's a new Legacies update, now with an Attainment that can dispel other Supernatural's powers. Woooo! Eyes of Ain Soph!

>Version 1.34
Eyes of Ain Soph, unlike most of my previous Legacies, only have a primary Arcanum, and no optional Arcanum for their Attainments.

I felt this was more appropriate to a 'seek the secret core of Magic' than their 1e Spirit-Secondary.

In exchange, their Attainments are slightly more powerful, and I've tried to keep an underlying theme of unifversally applicable powers. Such as their 'Counterspell Supernatural Effect' Attainment, and their universal destruction blast.

Lolol, sure thing fag.

How big is your book collection, /wodg/? If you have only PDF you better have a clitoris, because you are DICKLESS, guy.

>all that wasted paper laced with the sweat of past owners

Why would I ever buy used books for a pointless collection?

>Mage powers are dot-to-dot more powerful than almost every other splat
What splats are stronger than mages?

>being so insecure you have to reply to a 8 hours old post not even directed at yourself in an attempt to start a weird dickmeasuring contest

Mummies and Demons are the ones who are considered to be hanging around in the same weight class.

Mummies and Demons. Though high-end Masters surpass even them

...Then you got Archmages.

Mummies and Demons have some powers which would take Mages a ludicrous amount of spell factors or conjunctive Arcana to perform.

Also to a different and somewhat lesser extent, Beasts.

How do demons and mummies fit in nwod?

What's the difference between a master and an archmage?

>Demons
angels questioning their directive and rebelling against a God-Machine.
>Mummies
The product of ancient sorcery, slumbering beings awakened by cults.

>What's the difference between a master and an archmage?
Mastery is Arcana at five dots. Archmastery is above even that, world changing magics. God wizards.

Mummies are ancient super-poweres slaves tied to this artificial cosmological plane, and powered by this god-awful horrendously dangerous mega-juice that even Mages don't want to touch.

Demons are renegade cosmic robot-angels, on the run from the God-Machine which wants to find them so it can break them down for parts to make even more angels through which it can advance its inscrutible plans.

Archmages are Mages who have broken back into the Supernal, the 'code'-realm which they draw power from, on their own terms. They link their own souls there and gain ludicrous powers. They're basically lesser Gods. No more can they just make/unmake stuff, but they can modify other templates, fuck the universe inside out. And they exist in a cosmic cold war with the literal tyrannical gods of reality, and their end-game is to literally re-code some aspect of reality, and use that to sneak their way into what is essentially cosmoloigcal heaven.

Demons, the playable splat, are not what you would expect Demons to be. Mummies are basically mummies, crazy old objects of worship who have a ridiculous game. The difference between a Master and an Archmage is that a Master is still a normal Mage, just with one or more Arcana at 5 dots, which is the maximum you can get before you go for Archmastery. Going for Archmastery is crazy hard. According to Imperial Mysteries, you need to be Gnosis 6, and have Mastery in at least one Arcanum and be an Adept in three more. Then you have to undergo some crazy spiritual journey, which most aspiring Archmages don't survive, tango with the most cosmic elements of the setting, and then if you succeed, you become something like a minor god with the potential to become a major god and a player in the Ascension War, a cold war where all big guy reality warping entities push their own agenda for the Fallen (normal) World.

So do the other games also have god sides to them? Can really old vampires or powerful demons be like archmages?

No. Currently only Mages have this luxury, and it will probably stay that way. Such power demands thematically appropriate backgrounds, which only Mage really has access to.

Changeling came closest to it, what with becoming True fae. Beast too, Incarnates.

Archmages aren't the only guys in the Ascension War, and according to Imperial Mysteries all the splats have their own advocates in it who can do things similar to what Archmages do, but at the moment they're really the only playable 'god' template.

Not really, no.
Though there's nothing to stop you making your own if you want.
The writers generally probably didn't assume that people would want their Vampires to go Super Saiyan, in what is essentially an extended Maifa metaphor, or their Werewolves to go God-Wolf when they're pretty much just border security.

Mages are from the beginning offered an end-game of escaping the prison of reality and becoming a God. The promises of ungodly power and truth are what keep them investigating.
Archmages are really just a mechanical way to represent being halfway there.

You've moved out of the Fallen, but not yet into the Supernal.
But at least you've got a foot in the door.

Those advocates aren't, and never will be, playable. The thing that really stands out with Archmages is that they *evolved* from something.

You won't see Werewolves evolving into Luna.

>super saiyan vampires

Yeah. ATYoN was SO dbz

I personally just read the Advocates as being Archmages who've taken an interest in certain non-Mage Supernaturals, and go to efforts to protect their existence as an important part of the Phenomenal World.

>Though there's nothing to stop you making your own if you want.
Honestly you can do this, and it really wouldn't be hard. Archmages, while playable and with mechanics and everything, work best as fluff pieces and STCs. There's nothing stopping you from making your own transcendent versions of the other splats to include in your setting.

There's enough material together to piece together what a hypothetical "Arch-changeling" could and could not do, and how they would achieve it, but it isn't anywhere near as coherent as Mage's super-tier.

Vampires have one or two statted entities that occupy the lowest rungs of the ascension war, but they all seem to be one of a kind beings, a vampire would need to manually bootstrap themselves to a high enough level of power, and even then they wouldn't be offered the level of protection against reality revisions that Archmages and True Fae have access to, which would doom them to be shitty knockoffs forever.

Werewolves are in a similar situation.

Demons are as well, however unlike Vampires and Werewolves, Demon is very much a game about hacking up and remixing and improving your powerset, taking unique supernatural phenomena and making them an extension of your own direct abilities. Demons probably DO make it to Archmage tier about as often as Mages (And furthermore, since they intrinsically have reality revision protections, they don't need to worry about gaining it), but they are still beholden to the same Demon limitations of hiding from the detection of the God machine, which makes them astronomically less relevant by necessity.

Yes. No. Kinda. The thing about Archmasters is that they're potentially stronger than -anything- bar actual Ascendants.

Hell, a common bait topic is how they can turn Luna into a sex slave, and she would be more powerful than any Arch-vampire/werewolf/demon.

>she

Luna is gender neutral, you bigot.

>Hell, a common bait topic is how they can turn Luna into a sex slave,
This is not a bait topic but a noble pursuit. If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we put a man IN the moon?!

The Moonfuckers are still here!

Nobody needs reminding. Forsaken makes it perfectly clear about 2,046,873 times.

You guys. You're biting the bait again. We've talked about this guys come on.

I would rather take the bait then have the thread be a desolate wasteland of nothingness.

Every time you guys talk about Luna I think about the horse and I get a good laugh imagining yiffs worshipping her

>the horse
What?

That's wrong though. A dead thread is pretty much objectively superior to a thread filled with nothing but endless shitposting, even before you consider the long term side affects of that sort of thing

So is there noway to put vampires on top with archmages without houserulling ?

Are there no antediluvians in nwod? i'm only familiar with bloodlines and masquerade.

Just think of it as funposting.

There's no hardcore vampire lineage in Requiem. Big bad vampires are supposed to be Elders, but apparently their book was super garbage or something.

At best, non-Mages would only reach rank 7 status. Archmages and push for fucking rank 10.

It's not like Antes were ever on-par with Archmages to begin with.

>Acknowledge Mage Supremacy

The number one rule of surviving this place

But that's the problem. It doesn't leave. These threads are already at the point where they're never really going to 'go back', so many people have been indulging for so long that this is just the way things are now. And the longer people spend doing it the worse things are going to end up being.

If we're past the point of no return, what's the point of stopping?

Still better than the OPP forums

The origins of Vampire lineages in nWoD lie with creatures that are substantially less powerful than Antediluvians.

And also, .

For sure, some of the Covenant's patrons (Dracula and The Hag stand out to me as beings totally beyond reproach by any non-archbeing) have bolted enough bullshit powers onto themselves to stand up to a weak archmage, but the greatest fruits of their multiple millenia of preparation is being retroactively unexisted only by moderate or strong archmages. They're omniscient and omnipresent respectively, but not omnipotent, whereas that IS kind of within the ballpark of an archmage.

Making it worse. We have brief moments right now, pauses where its either dead for a few hours or people talk about some unrelated thing. And I guess saying it will never return is a bit of an exaggeration, its just likely to be like a year at least
No. Those places are honestly better for genuine discussion of the gamelines then here.

You realize there's like 1-2 trolls keeping this place in a heaping pile of shit, right?

Maybe. I'd put the number closer to 4 or 5, most of them falseflagging both sides. Doesn't change the fact that people keep biting.

When will Signs of Sorcery come out, ya think?

Hopefully soon. I wonder if getting that whipcracker developer will actually help or not.

>whipcracker developer

Who?

Eddy Webb, apparently a prolific developer from WW who was let go or something and then picked up by OPP full time to help their developers get their shit together.

It was Thanksgiving over here in Canada. What do the various supernaturals do during the holidays?

Are the vampires more polite over there?

Do they apologize when they suck you dry?