Lawful Good doesn't always mean Lawful Nice

>Lawful Good doesn't always mean Lawful Nice.
What did she mean by this?

Imagine Granny Weatherwax from Discworld. She is the grand definition of Good without being Nice.

You don't need to be kind to people. You just got to make sure everyone does their fucking job without resorting to violence towards them.

>extremely lawful
>extremely good
>rips and tears his enemies limb from limb, and blasts the big gaping holes in them
optimus prime was a nice guy outside of combat, but the moment the ion blaster is out, he was a beast

on the rare occasion the 80s allowed him to actually injure his enemies he could be downright scary, and in the bayfilms he has a reputation as a headhunter

while being undoubtedly lawful good and a pretty swell guy the whole time

It means that the Lawful Good Paladin can grab some motherfucker by the throat and bash his fucking head in if he's an evil cunt trying to do some evil shit.

It also means the Lawful Good character doesn't need to be nice to people. He can be an asocial prick that has no desire to talk to anyone and is just generally boorish.

It means they're like the alt-right: they value individuals over the group, women's rights, and freedom of speech and will fight to the death to maintain these beliefs, but they will still call you a nigger.

When Gamer Gate started, it was primarily a consumer advocacy group, but evolved over time to take on fake news, albeit in an unkind manner. That's what the concept means to me.

In the cartoon I remember him being a kind and merciful guy but in the Bayverse he executes an incapacitated enemy who's begging for his life then spouts a one liner.

>giving Leonard Nimoy the mercy of leaving that shitty movie
>not Lawful Good

I don't think alt-right is as broad as you describe it, I think the label really only fits white nationalists that believe in keeping the genepool clean. Classical liberals (as in, people that haven't co-opted the term to mean progressivist) fit more what you describe and are sort of grouped in with the neo-nazi's as outsiders. The alt-right takes over some of their talking points because they need their numbers and legitimacy but I have no doubt they'd shut down free speech themselves if they ever came in power.

>they value individuals over the group, women's rights, and freedom of speech and will fight to the death to maintain these beliefs, but they will still call you a nigger
/thread

vast majority of characters in any world you create should be psychos. there'd be nothing for players to do otherwise.

he was kind and merciful in the TV show
but there were a few scenes where the censor fell asleep, and he blasted 20 or 30 guys to pieces

It means that sometimes niggers gotta be smacked.

Prime is an absolute M O N S T E R on the bay "films" When it comes time to throw down he is quite without mercy- it really is the Only Thing those movies have going for them, and while you can debate the morality of cold-blooded executions given to.. I wanna say sentinal and megatron, I think it's reasonably lawful to treat a defeated enemy by wartime standards and holding past behaviour against them. Meggy was never going to Not be a threat, and sentinel just murdered a fool

Yeah nah, let the title go

Why you describe Optimus Crime but post a pic of Optimus Prime?

I hate these movies, when deceptions execute autobots, they do it fast, the play a sad theme while slow camera, when autobots execute, rip and dismember deceptions (abd believe me they do) they laugh and they play an upbeat action theme

Deceptions are evil, autobots are fucking psychopaths

why do you think the autobots are all 65% similar to their cartoon looks while the Bad Guys are spiky humanoid monsters that clatter and jabber in Bad Scary Evil? Good guys are characters, bad guys are trash mobs

Even if they're trash mobs, when the ""good"" guys dismember enemies while laughing like hyenas they stop being good

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That alignment is descriptive not prescriptive.

Read The Diamond Throne, The Ruby Knight, and The Sapphire Rose by David Eddings. Perfect example of Lawful Good and Not Necessarily Nice paladins.

Because nice is subjective.

Lobbing the head off a murderer so the victim can have justice in death isn't a "nice" thing to do, but it is lawful and it is good. Throwing someone in prison for their crimes also isn't nice, but justice never really cared for nice anyway.

...

Now that I think back on it, there was a whole section in the tamuli trilogy where Sparhawk and squire basically acts as a Navy Seals sniper assassination team to kill off a jihadist preacher. I never realised how politically charged that whole bit was when I read that while growing up.

That means she normally does not disrupt public order too much but every now and then a pretty boy dissapears only to be found badly beaten and raped, and the Crusader mysteriously refuses to investigate

A different witch, but this is another Discworld quote for "Good, Not Nice."

>All witches are selfish, the Queen had said. But Tiffany’s Third Thoughts said: Then turn selfishness into a weapon!

>Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world!

>How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine! I have a duty!

> /ss/ femdom
Good taste--
> violent rape
Fuck off, you fucking disgrace.

> they value individuals over the group
Except the alt-right is all about indentitarianism and tribalism.

I mean, sure you may have a point. I'm not exactly invested enough with transformers morality. Protagonist licence does a lot for movie morals though. No matter their actions unless the film is about these themes, then optimus ripping whats-his-names face off will be presented as the good thing

Yes, I can live by those principles !

Don't respond to /pol/tards.

>Even if they're trash mobs, when the ""good"" guys dismember enemies while laughing like hyenas they stop being good
What?

No, if you get to shoot someone who's willing to slaughter civilians you can laugh it off pretty easily.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying blowing up literal murder machines.

Remember, these folks have been through thousands of years of war. They're soldiers, and have seen friends and family be killed off.

They're still 100% the good guys since they're stopping genocide and enslavement of humans.

Is it a bad sign that I really relate to this?

I want mommy crusader to fuck me sideways

It's like in Into the Woods when Little Red realizes that nice is different than good. The werewolf was a nice and polite dude but he still wanted to eat the bitch. A paladin could be trained to save the world but he could be rude and arrogant at times,but generally does the right thing.

I would totally be down for some rough sex with the crusader

How's that any different from lawful neutral though? Doesn't lawful good involve being compassionate and merciful and not just bashing skulls?

>Doesn't lawful good involve being compassionate and merciful and not just bashing skulls?
Mercy denies justice to the victims; it is either NG, CG, TN, or CN.

You can take your /v memes and fuck off

If you have trouble with empathy Discworld isn't the worst place for cues. A lot of the books while not strict rules redemption, do focus on repurposing base desires for the common good. Vimes is always worrying about being a bad cop so much that he is a great cop. The guard has a zombie, werewolf, and a vampire. There are a lot of characters who feel the desire to protect others strongly.

>Mercy denies justice to the victims.

No it doesn't, Justice is not Revenge. it's in the name. To be Just.

>Implying Mercy is Justice.

>Mercy is one of the Virtues.
>To follow the Virtues is to be Just.
>To enact justice you must be in turn Just.

Everything else is gussied up revenge.

>Implying revenge isn't Justice.

>Emotionally driven murder is Justice.

Justice is supposed to end conflict, not cause more.

>Justice is supposed to end conflict, not cause more.

you know, that's a pretty damn good quick explanation of the difference of Justice v Revenge. Ima steal that shit.

>When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.

That's not Justice then, the Ultimate Justice is so undeniable that Evil must accept it's judgement is fair.

Nah, that's gay, I like the first one more

>But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!

Heretics.

They were soldiers who are involved in a war that not only fucked their old planet up, but is now fucking their new home up. Hard to feel sympathy or even hold then to our own wartime standards, pop that fucker.

No. you're ruining it. Stop ruining it. The simplicity is why I like it. "Justice ends conflict, it doesn't cause more." That's it. That's all.

idk, Evil is not particularly rational so any justice, even ultimate justice, might not be something which they even recognize.

Proper justice is served quite often and still there are those who are too engulfed within their own little world to recognize it as it is. Instead, many are taken aback or see injustice where justice is justly served.

>What did she mean by this?
She meant that the right thing can often seen cruel or harsh, but it is done out of necessity and to minimize suffering balanced against that cruelty

>For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed; the offspring of the wicked will perish.

I disagree.

Similar with Carrot where "Lawful Good" doesn't mean "Lawful stupid".

Not at all. I personally love taking negative ideals and turning them positive. Two examples I can personally think of, not from any specific media, is someone being so lazy, that they work extra hard and bust their ass just so they don't have to deal with more work or bothersome things later on. Or a character who thinks life is completely meaningless, so he puts meaning into everything he does, since it doesn't matter either or and.

Justice IS conflict.

People don't think on how fucked up Transformers are, really. They've literally been at war for thousands of years. They destroyed their own planet and scattered through the galaxy in stasis. Whenever they bump into one another or wake up, the war flares up again, and a lot of times other races get dragged in. Worlds have been scoured of resources to produce weapons and engines of destruction. Civilizations both primitive and enlightened extinguished. Whole planets turned into hollow tombs for their cores and the energy they can yield.

The Autobot-Decepticon war is an unending horror that has plagued the galaxy for millions of years, a level of fucked up beyond even our own "Great War", a war which was so horrific it scarred an entire generation. In the comics, Optimus even comments how the other races of the galaxy are horrified and consider them a nightmare tale.

>>Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world!
>>How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine! I have a duty!

So this is basically how Good dragons operate, isn't it?

And there's that one wizard, I can't remember his name, who is a full blown, unforgivable coward, but has saved the day many times, whether he wanted to or not.

Rincewind

Yeah him. Stone cold coward who will not even hesitate to get the fuck out of dodge even even the hint of adventure or excitement shows up, but always saves the day.

It's a term adopted by piss poor 'roleplayers' who want to play as Paladins or reap the benefits of being 'muh badass lawful good' but still play the game as a pragmatic murder hobo. It's the same as retards who think that a "Lawful" Good character is their own moral authority, which directly contradicts against their own definition of alignment.

Lawful Good characters do not-
>Kill people
>Hold prejudice against intelligent beings
>Allow, through inaction, evil beings to die
>Lie
>Win battles through cowardice or deceit
>Accept rewards or make money beyond what they need to survive
>Unjust laws to plague a land
>Torture for information or otherwise
>Use dark/forbidden magic
>Act as vigilante justice

It's far better to just not pick the top left square of a choice of 9 squares and just play a "character" who is a "good guy". Alignment arguments are pretty shit.

GaryGygaxQuote.png

I enjoy any concept, situation, or story element that takes "absolute power corrupts absolutely" and disproves it

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Genociding the subhumans and all traitors supporting them isn't nice, but it's the good thing to do.

almost every example you gave is completely wrong.

If someone breaks the law they must be punished. In this case punishing them is the good thing to do. Also, executions should be cold blooded or it's just murder.

Fate has pretty much made it his hobby to fuck with him.
But, since Rincewind is the Lady's favourite playing piece, he will always come out on top.

Or even when its more direct consequence, like letting a murderer live because he begs for mercy, and he goes to kill again. Killing him is the good thing to do, and the lawful one too.

Them being pacifists isnt required, because it pushes into stupid good by constricting their ability to fight a battle, and neither is being nice. There is such a thing as tough love, if paly is all smiles and nonviolent then hes a doormat for evil, Lg needs to have the capacity to be mean or else hes powerless to do anything besides charitywork. I dont like this nonsense about how LG must be nice, or how LE must be mean. They only "must" be mean or good if their characters int is 8 or below.

Basically, this.

>Lawful Good characters do not-
>>Kill people
Not even to save the life of an innocent?
>>Hold prejudice against intelligent beings
Even Demons, Devils, Abberations and Undead?
>>Allow, through inaction, evil beings to die
Nigga what?
>>Lie
"Have you seen where those escaped slaves went?"
"Yes, that way"
*I'm such a GOOD guy*
>>Win battles through cowardice or deceit
How do you win through cowardice? That makes no sense/
>>Accept rewards or make money beyond what they need to survive
Even if the reward is well earned and the giver can spare it?
>>Unjust laws to plague a land
They wouldn't be Lawful Good if they did
>>Torture for information or otherwise
>>Use dark/forbidden magic
These two are the only ones that are true
>>Act as vigilante justice
So, if the local Thieves Guild has paid of the town guard to look the other way whilst they extort shopkeepers, you're supposed to not get involved?

I think is still holding on to the older use of the term, which was more toward young libertarian (little 'L') than current popular usage. Somewhere along the line when anger about media was spiking, said media started using it as a catch-all for racists, facists, sexists, people that disagreed with them, nazis, etc.

And once the media says something, that lend strength to it and alerts those with no knowledge of their new name. Like furries, the tea party, and Anonymous, some shit did not exist in the way we know them today before the news got to it.

Labels are shit that way. Like the guy that thinks lawful good means he can go on a spree against anything that pings evil to him.

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> she
literally who

Winning a battle through cowardice I can see as intentionally refusing to fight a more powerful foe and starving the enemies army, instead of fighting. Its cowardly not to fight, but in doing so, you save hundreds of lives. The list is really stupid, and I was halfway through a similar response to you when the thread updated.

>When Gamer Gate started, it was primarily a consumer advocacy group
Ahahaha, NO!
It was founded literally to hate on Quinn because her ex couldn't stand the fact she was getting her life together.
They pretended to be an advocacy group but spent their entire time beating on women and small fish and never became anything more then a misogyny circlejerk that became so painfully transparent that anyone who thought they had any lofty ideals left.

This both falls under
> piss poor 'roleplayers' who want to play as Paladins or reap the benefits of being 'muh badass lawful good'
They want to accolades of being a morally righteous hero while still being able to act like an absolute evil sociopath.

Wrong.

>Bring them into the sheepfold!
What is she? A sheppard? Ewe Queen?

The argument you linked to says a Lawful Good person cannot kill someone. There is a devil who is about to curse an entire town into slowly rotting to death, yet according to this argument, a Paladin cannot kill that devil...

She's a witch, and is making the allusion that the people she "protects" are sheep, and need to be brought into the sheepfold.

>Jesus was an absolute evil sociopath
>An evil overlord who has killed literally millions should be spared after unleashing damn-near literal hell on the party because he raised the white flag after hitting his last hit point
>Good guys aren't allowed to be badass
Now do you realize why the bad guys in fiction have such a force of attraction? They're the only ones allowed to be badass, because the good guys must always be insuffrably nice. Nobody is allowed to look up to them, nobody is allowed to step back in respect, nobody is allowed to fear them, they can't have massive strongholds, they can't have snazzy uniforms and they can't have cool armor.

This is why I like the current rise in popularity of cool looking crusaders (even though it often is paired with cringeworthy roleplay): they finally allow bad guys to look cool and not like wussies. But then again, they aren't exactly "nice guys" either so they'll always be seen as pure evil by some limpwristed faggots.

Let me guess, you also oppose the death penalty under all circumstances because some guy who blinded and de-limbed a dozen children and masturbated over their crying, deformed bodies can still be rehabilitated and only did it because his daddy spanked him once?

A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.

Lawful good combines honor with compassion.

Lawful good characters are proficient at understanding bureaucracies, following laws, and cultivating order and structure in their own lives and in others’. They are naturally helpful, and others find them trustworthy, even if they don’t share the same alignment. Additionally, lawful good characters are adept at deciding which actions are lawful and benefit society rather than the individual. With their focus on order, they can often build governmental stability where none previously existed. These characters sometimes have problems defying laws, even when the laws are unjust. Instead of disobeying or protesting against such laws, they work within the provided structure or system to change those laws, and they implore others to do so as well. They feel guilty lying to others, even if only asked to fib to provide a ruse for their companions. Similarly, they won’t break the law to help good-intentioned party members perform actions that might have beneficial results.

When they’re adventuring in urban areas with their companions, lawful good characters may feel compelled to excuse themselves from certain plans or attempt to reason with those more lenient in their interpretation of the law. It’s much easier for lawful good characters to ignore the bad behavior of other party members when exploring ruins and wilderness areas outside the direct jurisdiction of a governing body.

Lawful good characters regard law as necessary for the welfare of society. They fight to abolish or change laws they deem unjust, and they always aid those in need. Lawful good characters strive to be forthright in their words and deeds, refuse to lie to others, and keep their covenants. They oppose evil wherever it is found, and avoid putting the good of the individual ahead of what is good for the masses. For these characters, the end rarely justifies the means. Characters drawn to honor, righting wrongs, or making sacrifices for others might be attracted to this alignment.

Builders
Builder characters believe in the importance of close-knit families and strong communities, and they teach others to be self-sufficient. Builders revere order and law, regarding these concepts as the answer to all of civilization’s problems; for them, a strong, benevolent government is what allows civilizations to thrive. Builders often assist in creating actual structures and items as a part of community’s attempt to improve members’ quality of life.

If you are a builder, you:
Strive for order and organization.
View strong government as necessary for civilization’s cultivation, and strong families and communities as the building blocks of successful settlements.
Use your creativity and skills to teach others how to improve their lives and communities, and gladly offer your assistance when others are moved to create order and structure.
Code: You bring order to society through your creations, whether material or philosophical.

Crusaders
Crusaders endeavor to stamp out the presence of evil wherever it arises. These just, strong individuals spend their lives in pursuit of such heroic endeavors, tenaciously taking the fight to the root of evil in an attempt to eradicate it. Crusaders seek honor, valor, and glory in their pursuit of evil, and willingly sacrifice themselves in their efforts to destroy their targets.

If you are a crusader, you:
Abhor evil in all its aspects.
Are motivated to right wrongs and to stamp out evil and injustice.
Seek honor and glory through your actions, and suffer death over accepting dishonor.
Code: You are honorable and risk your life to eradicate the evil threatening your lands or the lives of those you’ve vowed to protect.

Guardians
Guardians respect life and believe there is no greater duty or higher calling than protecting the lives of innocents and those who are too venerable to protect themselves. These brave, unwavering individuals gladly risk life and limb in defending whoever or whatever they have vowed to protect, whether it’s a city, village, fortress wall, or even a strategic pass. They willingly sacrifice themselves to the last soul to carry out their duty, and they find their honor, valor, and glory in defense rather than in taking the battle to others. When not actively involved in protecting their charge, they spend their time teaching defensive tactics and skills to those willing to learn.

If you are a guardian, you:
Protect the lives of others at your own risk.
Are motivated to protect the weak and the innocent.
Improve the tactics and defensive skills of those you aid.
Code: You risk your life to protect the lives and well-being of others.

That parts retarded, but the part I linked is spot on.
>Let me guess, you also oppose the death penalty under all circumstances
No, but nice fucking straw man jumping to extremes.

You forgot that one hypocritical part.
>slaughter dozens of minions but it's ok because they're faceless
>spare the BBEG who forced said minions into his army because he pouts a little

Being nice is a feminine trait, and since every civilisation where women had any say in the politics collapsed shortly after a period of intense societal chaos, corruption and rampant INJUSTICE, we can conclude being nice is always Evil.

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I mean, you're kind of proving his "sociopath" point correct.

Not even him and I don't even necessarily agree with him but
>thinking female political activity ruins societies is literal sociopathy
You actually believe our ancestors for tens of thousands of years were all sociopaths? You know your ideological dogmatism is making sociopathy the norm and being "sane" the exception, right?

Im not denying there are edgy roleplayers who want to murderhobo while being a Paladin.

But the Jesus argument argues that hating something evil is acceptable, and pacifism in the face of injustice is wrong. This seems to me to be the epitome of Lawful Good, a person who sees a wrong, and rights it, using force if necessary, provided it does not cause direct harm to people innocent of the wrong.

By stating a basic historical fact ?
What, you think this civilisation will turn out different ?
>The true definition of madness is repeating the same action, over and over, hoping for a different result.
>Those who study History are doomed to see those that don't, repeat it.

Good troll

>You actually believe our ancestors for tens of thousands of years were all sociopaths?
No, but I believe almost every single person of historical significance was.

Cybertronians, even the Autobots, would be seen as death and destruction incarnate.

Nightmarish beings who bring war and ruin to every world unfortunate enough to come to their attention.

And they've been fighting longer than civilization has even existed on Earth.

Kronk had probably only just discovered fire or invented the wheel when Optimus Prime and Megatron began fighting over Cybertron.

What could thousands of years of war do to the psyche?

I'm surprised the Autobots are even capable of being 'good' after being at war for millennia.

Manipulating people is something very taxing for an healthy mind, and manipulating people is not just useful, but generally required to obtain and hold any position of power.
It's not that positions of power corrupt people, it's that the corrupt are the most well-suited to obtain said positions of power.