Pathfinder General /pfg/

I don't think so. They gimped a lot of the stat options in SoM. Strikers get Con to AC, which IMO is even more fucked.

>Multi-classing into casters and ignoring the entire point of a sneak attacking dual-wield rogue to just minmax and not even do it well

It's honestly impressive just how hard you actually missed the point there

I would be happy for inputs.

Then make a Vivisectionist Alchemist. Dual wield your weapon of choice and go to town.

So I have a question. Is the earliest you can summon dinosaurs with Summon Nature's Ally at level seven (SNA IV)?

Looking at the saurian shaman druid, at level five they can summon reptiles and dinosaurs as a standard action and grant them temp hp equal to his or her level.

I'm just wondering if you'd still be stuck summoning lizards and such until level seven.

No, but you can get 2+half level to AC when unarmored

Also, on that same note about dinos, I saw someone in I think it was the previous thread say their Ankylo pet reaches upwards around 40 AC.

How the dick do you do that? I'm seeing +11 AC from base and seventh level advancement, I'm assuming some good barding is thrown in there as well. What else do you stack on that adds that much AC?

Why would anyone want to be a rogue when they could be a half assed wizard?

Where's that?

Equipment Sphere

d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/exploration-movement/

Scroll up the page to see modifiers for speed based on terrain. Never try to convert from real world speeds to these speeds, it's a dark hole to dive down that will make you hate yourself. If you want to add a speed for a new form of transport like a train, just use a number you like without trying to math out how accurate it is- that's clearly what the devs did.

Magitek is cool when it's not just glowing crystals as magic energy batteries for otherwise mundane machines. Unfortunately, that seems way too common in my experience.

Eldritch Scoundrel is a thing, for people who want to be both at the same time.

d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/eldritch-scoundrel-rogue/

>when it's not just glowing crystals as magic energy batteries for otherwise mundane machines.
How about multifaceted crystals as magical AI cores?

Unarmored Training is pretty equivalent to Prescient Dodger, I feel.

Prescient Dodger...
>is only available starting from Level 2 onwards
>gives a slower scaling static AC bonus
>gives Mental-stat to AC
>is limited to classes that can select a rogue talent
>ends at Mental Stat + 5 at level 20.
>Worth 1/10th of your Rogue Talents

Unarmored Training...
>is available from Level 1, if your choice of Martial Tradition grants it
>scales with BaB OR Acrobatics
>can be purchased for one talent by ANY class that gets SphereCombat Talents
>ends up at +12 at level 20.
>Opportunity cost: Worth at least one talent in a martial tradition, and if not selected in a martial tradition, is worth at at most 1/10 of your talent progression for a proficient practitioner, 1/20 for an expert, or 1/30 or 1/40 for a conscript (depending on how many bonus feats they trade away.

Basically: Prescient Dodger is better if you expect to have a very high mental stat modifier. Unarmored Training is superior for Quality builds or builds that are MAD or need split mentals, or if you just have a bunch of SphereCombat talents to throw around.

That's less sneak attack dice and no spells beyond 6. Though they do get 1 more cantrip and more FCB and skill points and probably most importantly: more feats.

>is only available starting from Level 2 onwards

Unless you're a PoW stalker!

This is true, but this is assuming just SoM+SoP materials.

Feral mutagen is a thing too.

That's natural attacking. Not dual wielding.

Why are you so set on dual wielding? It's not even good.

Mate, are you retarded? Did you not read the paste?

I guess that handles the move and attack issue.

It's capped by level which makes it pretty slow going, though.

I wish my GM would use rules like that desu, twf is cool but such a fucking hassle

>Game goes smooth for like 6 sessions, GM is nice, people are having a great time, etc
>One of our NPCs enters in a magic induced coma and only an object from certain dungeon can save her
>Dungeon takes like 4 sessions (3 days in game) with lots of encounters
>Last day and after 6 encounters we save a NPC that happen to be in the dungeon
>Out of spells, resources of any kind, hps go from 1/2 to 1/3rd and one of the PCs has a negative level we decide to get out of the dungeon to rest and come back next day
>GM says that it makes no sense, even though we already did that the previous days without a problem and the GM wasn't bothered about that (in fact he said it was a good idea) and that our chars refuse to leave and they decide to camp inside dungeon because
>After an argument we ""decide"" to do that in a room with a single entry that we barricaded it
>Surprisingly, not really, monsters attack us and destroy barricade in a single turn with a single hit
>Deadly as fuck encounter, 2 PCs are below 0 but stable
>GM says we have to restart the rest
>Ok, do that
>Out of the blue NPC gets mad and calls us cowards because we aren't exploring while half dead and fatigued
>After a heated argument with literally who which we saved from a certain death 2 hours ago decides to go alone exploring more
>Impossible to convince that is crazy
>Ok, we wish him lucky
>When we recover from the rest the dungeon is clean, no treasures, but also no bodies but those we already killed.
>Object that we came for that was uberimportant for the campaign disappeared (we assume NPC took it even though we told him that was super important)
>Campaign on a halt and GM tries to put the blame on us
What the fuck?

Have you tried not playing D&D/Pathfinder with its workday expectations?

Alternately, have you tried playing with a GM that understands the workday pacing of these systems?

GM had no problem with us resting when we're tired/out of resources/night comes till that exact problem

Is there any way in SoP to replace an attack made with the attack action with a feint?

SoM I mean

What do you mean "died?"

I was playing GURPS, contributing to its death

Goddamn, I forgot how fucking annoying making a high level martial is. So much fucking equipment to minmax. Armor dicks you over super fucking hard. Goddamn.

Now that I'm checking conversation with the rest of the group, the GM even told us the first day that the dungeon wasn't meant to be done in a single day/raid and that we should go out to rest when needed or else we'll die. Fuck that guy, srly, the fuck is his problem?

He probably read some OSR bullshit or watched some video about muh 15 minute workday.

Alternatively, he wanted to force a TPK for some reason.

So some of the conversion archetypes and non-SoM class archetypes seem a little broken. Putting those aside, what are some fun combos or interactions people have seen using the new SoM classes themselves?

>So some of the conversion archetypes and non-SoM class archetypes seem a little broken
Like fucking what?

Apart from the Scholar being able to have a /really fucking good/ Animal Companion (Animal Training Small, Animal Training Large, Experimental Evolution, Beastmastery sphere, Genetic Modification if ya want to) and Technician being able to get Rocket Kicks, 3D Maneuver Gear, and shock punches, I haven't really had time to digest all the SoM classes

Sounds like he get bored of the game and instead of discussing it like a civilized person he decided to go full passive/agressive and end the game with a TPK or putting the campaign in a check mate.

Adept feat progression is cheap as heck and I've seen people bitching about the spellcaster->SoM progression stuff, so I was trying to exclude that from the conversation.

So when's Leakanon going to give us a look at Blood of the Coven? I need to know if there's now coven rules.

>itching about the spellcaster->SoM progression stuff,
That was pretty much just 2hu.

Isn't there a feat somewhere to Feint with skills other than Bluff?

Personally, I'd rule that casters can't feat into anything greater than Proficient without DM permission

Slayer's Feint lets you do it with Acro

Neat, but in this case I'm specifically looking for SoH.

So Veeky Forums, maybe you can help me decide. I'm making a dino druid for this campaign and I'm trying to pick a companion.

Right now I'm trying to decide between ankylosaurus, stegosaurus, and spinosaurus.

And yes, I'm aware that there are better dinos to choose from. These are the three I really want to use right now.

Wha is the best way to manage and allow Legendary Talents, and why is it as specific quest rewards only?

Seriosuly, just imagine after proving yourself worthy and helping to aide some ancient monastary, they teach your Paladin the Sparrows Path talents.

Ankylosaurs are cooler. No stat reason, they just are

I personally would just allow folks to select Legendary Talents as normal.

>Wha is the best way to manage and allow Legendary Talents, and why is it as specific quest rewards only?
Because while I like that idea, such a method isn't appropriate for all worlds or characters. And some legendary talents really should just be basic talents.

>Wha is the best way to manage and allow Legendary Talents, and why is it as specific quest rewards only?
>martials can only have their cool things as quest rewards, but spellcasters (even Spherecasters) can bend time and space however they feel like

Like, Jolly straight up said a lot of Legendary Talents are only "Legendary" so they could shut up the faggots screeching about how "MUNDANE CHARACTERS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT!"

>>martials can only have their cool things as quest rewards, but spellcasters (even Spherecasters) can bend time and space however they feel like
I feel the same way about Advanced Sphere Talents as I do Legendary Talents
Decide on a case by case basis what talents are available in your world, and work with your players on what you feel like can just be taken as an option and what you're going to have to spend a quest/arc learning.

What the fuck is a 2-Handed character supposed to use SoM for?

Athletics Sphere to move around the battlefield

Berserk Sphere to debuff and hit hard

Beastmastery Sphere for a mount

Duelist to cripple and maim

Equipment for various shenanigans

Fencing in order to feint and get better accuracy, along with general debuffs

Guardian Sphere for a challenge and EXTRA REACH

Lancer in order to control enemy movements

Warleader Sphere to buff allies.

Except all if not most of those spheres require you to waste turns on Combat Maneuver bullshit, unless I'm reading things wrong. At least as far as debuffing is concerned.

Is Brute good for anything?

It's a sphere devoted to bull-rushing. So no.

Berserk sphere just requires you use a special attack action to inflict the battered condition, and our Exertion talents enable you to stack more stuff on top of the Battered Condition. As well, not all debuffs are reliant on CMD. Some call for Will/Fort/Reflex saving throws

Brute is the "move your enemies around the battlefield" sphere. The Shove ability is a melee touch attack that inflicts the Battered condition on a hit, and Manhandle enables you to add additional riders to it.

Berserker doesn't, it just straight up allows you to hit someone and batter them

Duelist's bleed procs on both attacks and disarms, and makes your manuevers not provoke AoO against a bleeding enemy

Fencing is built around AoO shenanigans, and built in Sneak Attack stuff

Guardian is more AoO and tanking. Also Warder shenanigans

Lancer's Impale is basically the Lock mechanic from Fool's Errand.

Really, the only sphere there that uses Manuevers is Duelist

A lot of them BENEFIT from Maneuvers, but they aren't required to reap the benefits from it.

> but they aren't required to reap the benefits from it.
Outside of Berserker and Duelist's bleed(lol bleed damage) I'm not really seeing a whole lot of it.

So, what's shaping up to be the best Sphere of Might, /pfg/?

I don't know honesty. Maybe I'm just stupid but this looks a fuck ton more complicated than path of war, and not even that huge of an improvement over Paizo martials.

I try making a character for this system and I get so confused, bored, and frustrated at trying to tangle with it, I give up. This is the first bit of 3pp that has ever made me do this. I picked up Path of War in a day. Psionics in a day. And Spheres in a day. I don't know what's wrong with me.

It's subjective, I think. I took a really long time to understand Psionics and Path of War, but Spheres of Might and Spheres of Power came naturally to me.

Bersonally, I'd say Beastmaster, if only because 2 Martials are better than 1

I think its because it approaches things from a diferent mindset than PoW. PoW is all about Damage with occasional riders, and just learning better versions of previous manuvers. SoM meanwhile is almost all about taking your normal Standard attack, and focusing on dozens of different new mechanics and riders you could potentially add to them, and then taking talents that could build on them. Thn you have the non-combat oriented spheres that make things even wierder.

PoW takes a very "caster-ish" mindset to combat, where you just pick the Manuver or manuever combo that you think is best for the job, whereas SoM take a more "troubleshooter/tactician" mindset to it, where your main focus is instead of blasting everything you use a toolbox to creatively alter the battlefield to a position that suits you.

Basically, I guess if we were to liken each to a different warrior: PoW is your typical Fighing Game character with motions and specific move chains, whereas SoM is more akin to Dark Souls 3 character (especially if you play as the Armiger), where you have only a few gimmicks, and you instead have to figure out how to best use them and not get sodomized by the scrub spamming the Farron Greatsword weapon art.

One requires more system knowledge, and the other requires more battlefield strategy and observation. Basically it the same reason why some people are better t DMC than DS, and others are the opposite. Me, I'm trash at Devil May Cry, yet Dark Souls/Bloodborne is generally a piece of cake.

>Playing precon game
>DCs for anything is 30+
>We're 3rd level
>DM acts puzzled on why we can't accomplish shit and why everybody lost a char at least once
Next game is the 5th one, I think I'm not going back

>nd riders you could potentially add to them
My biggest issue is that I don't see many "riders" availiel outside of berserk and duelist. Everything else is CMB maneuvers which PF and experience have trained me to be fucking gutter trash unless I'm getting them for free.
>especially if you play as the Armiger),
Why the Armiger specifically?

Because it fits the DS mechanics of different weapons providing different movesets and Arts, since you can assign Spheres and Talents to each individual weapon

Also seeVery FEW are involve CMB manuevers, and almost all that are SPECIFICALLY say they can be done either after a MAnuever or an actual attack, meaning for the most part you're still going to be attacking anyway and won't lose much, which is essentially the same as more more versatile PoW Manuevers. So in general, unless you want to use te CMB stuff you really don't have to. Plus, you also have your Modifier as well

Nigga, I think its time you got some glasses

I already wear glasses.
>nd almost all that are SPECIFICALLY say they can be done either after a Maneuver or an actual attack

I'm either critically misunderstanding a mechanic or something. Because a lot of the spheres have a clause like this
>X talents cannot be applied to maneuvers
performed as a free action.

That means that if you performed the [trip] as a free action, you don't add riders. Standard, move, and swift action maneuvers can have riders just fine.

>Standard, move, and swift action maneuvers can have riders just fine
I'm not seeing these.

I think its because most Spheres can be apllied after any "attack action", which is defined at as sort of Sandard Attack or Manuever. However, some abilities in both Core, as well as a few Sphere Talents, that can allow you to a Manuever as a free action after fulfilling some requirements (such as expending Combat Focus after an Attack Action)

Go back to the Introduction chapter, then keep an eye out for any rules that say "attack action"

Does the 'Patrol' ability from the Guardian sphere allow ranged weapons to threaten AOO?

The swift action maneuvers I mean. I saw some in Gladiator and Duelist I think, and that's it.

Dual Wielding sphere not counting as the base TWF feat is moronic and telling a super taxed style to "just take the feat" is fucking stupid when the sphere does the feat but better in every way. Fight me.

yes this has nothing to do with what you're talking about

Want to start a new game for my players, but don't want to start at level 1. What's a good starting level?

three is generally a good starting level. not too complicated to build, yet just out of Rusty Dagger shanktown.

Level 3 or Level 5.

and i'm so, so tired of it

Hmmm, strange. I recall the base ability having TWF as its Associated Feat during the Playtest

Actually, I'm noticing a few other talents with overlap missing thier Associated Feat tags.

Yo Jolly! Is this a typo? Will thsi be fixed in Errata? Because honestly it seems like an obvious mistake was made here.

what, starting at level 3, or the Rusty Dagger Shanktown?

i'm kind of tired of level 3 starts

At what level would you rather start?

5 personally, if that won't do, not 3.

Why?

Level 1 for one or two encounters to put the fear of god in them and then just milestone them to 2 or 3 and continue with XP normally.

Are there any 3pp bard archetypes that give up bard spellcasting and not much else? I want to be a bard, but not a spellcaster.

I had the fear of God put into me when we got hit with Control Water, Heavy Water, and Hungry Darkness in quick succession. Don't need level 1 for that shit.

4 is the best starting level.

Step 1. Make a fighter.

Step 2. Take ranks in perform(whatever)

Rubato (PoW). There might be a few others out there, but they don't come to mind. Yo could also use the SoM rules to remove your Spells in favor of Martial Talents

At what level? Because that's just mean.