Hold on. If we look into it, Voldemort was a Lich

Was that really because of the multi-philactery thing or do Horrocruxes work that way even if you only have one?
Also, why didn't the good guys go dig out Tom Riddle Sr's body and cremated it? Without it Voldemort couldn't make his revival potion again and get fucked forever.

Hold on. If we look into it, Orochimaru was a Lich.

I think even the books make a point of it that Voldemort had such a raging ego that it actively hindered him

He didn't strike me as a Lich considering he was more about body-swapping.

>Could have put his soul inside a coin or some peeble, hide it literally anywhere and live forever but no, faggot had to use extremely popular objects and hid them in the most stupid places possible.
Do we know that for certain? If I was writing up phylactery rules I'd probably go for them needing to be meaningful items in meaningful places for them to work.

That said, is correct that he's a huge queen. We're lucky they weren't each an opulent crown to rule over each continent with.

>Was that really because of the multi-philactery thing or do Horrocruxes work that way even if you only have one?
Do we know that much about liches in Harry Potter? Voldemort's the only example I've ever heard of.

>Also, why didn't the good guys go dig out Tom Riddle Sr's body and cremated it? Without it Voldemort couldn't make his revival potion again and get fucked forever.
They might not have known about it, they might not have realized he was that close to succeeding elsewhere, they might not have wanted to desecrate the dead just in case, he might have had ways around it if he needed to.

Also everyone in HP, be they Volemort, pro-Voldemort, or anti-Voldemort, is a little on the loopy and ineffectual side. Hence Voldemort not (as far as we know) fetching and hiding the bones for safekeeping first, grabbing some of Harry's blood rather than dragging him there in person, etc.

No phylactery, not undead, not even innately immortal just able to cheat death with a ritual, and I don't think directly able to come back after being killed. Was technically a spellcaster, I guess, but otherwise he's got basically nothing in common with most depictions of liches beyond having a mobile soul.

They do. Harry brings up "oh shit, the Horcruxes would be anything then, any object, how the hell do we even find them?" And Dumbledore says that 1) he's thinking of portkeys and 2) voldemort thought too highly of himself to put a piece of himself into anything with a less than famous magical lineage.
You haven't caught up, have you? The curse marks aren't just power amplifiers. There's a bit of Orochimaru's soul in them and he has resurrected at least twice from them.
>orochimaru attempts to possess sasuke
>sasuke kills him pretty good
>sasuke fights itachi
>orochimaru pops up out of the curse mark IM BACK BITCHES
>itachi kills him really good
>ninja war is on
>sasuke and itachi beat kabuto
>need orochimaru's expertise
>orochimaru pops out of anko's curse mark
And then he figured out the secret to true immortality, no body-snatching or resurrection required.

>Do we know that for certain? If I was writing up phylactery rules I'd probably go for them needing to be meaningful items in meaningful places for them to work.
Well, he used the Ravenclaw neckleace as a Horrocrux and that one didn't have shit to do with him.

Yeah, the typical cliche villain

Wouldn't have mattered. When they made the potion, a bone didn't pop out of the grave, a fine stream of dirt died. Decomposed remains are apparently still fine.

I dropped Naruto way before that but even then he doesn't sound like a Lich, just like a wizard who can posses other people and found out a different way to become immortal.

I forgot about that, they use a bone in the movie so I got confused but even so if I was Dumbledore and knew that there is a potion that can allow a disembodied ghost to recover his body (because there is no fucking way Dumbledore didn't know that) I would nuke the shit out of the entire Riddle manor.

>Hold on.
Still holding OP.

Well he could possess people, but when he popped out of their curse marks it wasn't to possess them again. He just appears like Athena, fully formed. I mean what more could you ask for besides being undead?
>puts a bit of his soul into an object
>in case of death, can rez himself to full strength from bit of soul near the object
>unless you take out the object, he'll just keep coming back
Also a reminder that the Sound 5 all had them, and the dozens of prisoners at the Jugo hideout all had them. This is a man who knows his backup plans.
It was important to him because it belonged to Famous Witch, and Voldemort wanted very badly to distance himself from his Muggle rape-victim father. He attempted to get an object from Gryffindor too despite being the Heir of Salazar fucking Slytherin.
>his pet fuckhuge snake
>famous magiohistorical relic
>famous magiohistorical relic
>famous magiohistorical relic
>his own diary
>the only thing left of his wizard family's noble status
>the person he was convinced would be his downfall
Well he didn't know about Voldemort's Horcruxes until Slughorn let slip that he'd told Riddle something about them and then clammed up.

Finally someone fucking listened
You can let go now

Are there any fantasy liches that predate Kochei the Deathless?

In Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, he has horcruxes in a ton of weird places, assuming his soul can travel long distances to find hosts and therefore they don't need to be readily accessible. Bottom of the Mariana Trench, one in low-earth orbit, one dropped into the Earth's mantle, and even one put on a space probe (the placque).

>orochimaru attempts to possess sasuke
>sasuke kills him pretty good
>sasuke fights itachi
>orochimaru pops up out of the curse mark IM BACK BITCHES
>itachi kills him really good
>ninja war is on
>sasuke and itachi beat kabuto
>need orochimaru's expertise
>orochimaru pops out of anko's curse mark

What the fuck happened in Naruto after I quit reading it? When I stopped, Pain or whateverthefuck his name was had just rez'd Konoha and then became an hero and Orochimaru and Itachi were dead.

He could have and it would of worked so much better. But Voldy was such a drama queen faggot that he -needed- to have showy, symbolic horcruxes.

It was a horcrux downside. He could love through anything but became less then a ghost in doing so. Regaining his body was a first in the history of dark wizards, it took unique spell components and custom spells.

Also there is the whole multi-thing. Before voldy nobody had ever created more then one. The cost and pain is said to be titanic not to mention the spiritual harm you inflict upon yourself since the ritual literally rips off upwards of half the soul existing inside you and makes a backup of you that kicks in if your current flesh dies. He did it seven (8) times because 7 is a magically important number and in doing so be became the snake-faced wierdo we see

> one in low-earth orbit

Oh god this reminds me of that one Lich that made his phylactery a comet and then specced into unarmed leap attacks. Every time he was defeated, he would bide his time on the comet and scry the planet. When the comet drew close to the planet, the last hero that vanquished him would be elbow dropped from orbit by an angry burning skeleton man.

>Lich
*Buzzer of failure sounds*

He's a Yuan-ti

>pet snake
>forked tongue in the first movie
>eyes briefly appear snake-like after changing to human form
>can converse with serpents
>House literally slytherin

Probably a high-tier yuan-ti malison or pureblood

>Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality

>HPMoR
danluu.com/su3su2u1/hpmor/

Hey you guys ever notice that Voldemort doesn't have a nose?

youtube.com/watch?v=e-YTsM7Rpo8
This is what happened.

>"snake-like slits instead of a nose"

Yuan-ti confirmed

I giggled

Voldemort couldn't reform his body from a Horcrux in the traditional manner of bodily regeneration that we're used to with liches and phylacteries, but the Horcruxes could "resurrect" a version of him if allowed to.
Horcruxes are dark magic, real sick shit, and they influence anyone who comes in regular contact with them. For sick mofos like Dolores Umbridge it buffs them, but for less twisted folks it corrupts them by embellishing their worst qualities, often by preying on their insecurities. If someone opens themselves up emotionally to the consciousness inside a Horcrux, the connection increases to the point that the Horcrux can actually possess the person, and then slowly leech its life force away. If this leeching reaches its ultimate end, the victim is dead and the soul fragment is rematerialized in a body identicle to the one that the Horcrux maker had at the time they made that particular Horcrux.
Important to note is that the original soul fragment, the disembodied 'core soul', still exists separate from the resurrected fragment. It is still disembodied and nigh powerless. Also worth noting is that the rezzed fragment has only the knowledge and skills it had at the time its Horcrux was made, along with any knowledge it might have gleaned while possessing/leeching its victim.
What would actually happen between a rezzed fragment and a disembodied core has never been explored in detail. In book 2, a fragment of Voldemort nearly rezzed, and when asked how that would have effected 'core soul' Voldemort, Rowling only said that he would have come back much sooner and would have been more powerful.

Kek, reminds me of a manga I read.

>Boy and girl get chased by super powered mummified buddhist priest while they ride a bike as fast as a motorcycle
>It just screws with them while destroying parts of the city Looney Tunes style
>They finally use a mass driver to send the fucker into space
>The boy & girl high five
>Half an hour later Buddhist priest comes back from space after hijacking a passing meteor
>Aww fugg
>Talking golden retriever with power armor wrecks his shit outta nowhere

Sounds interesting, remember a sauce? I'd offer the one for the Randy Savage lich but it was a greentext story on Veeky Forums I forgot to save. IIRC it is on suptg somewhere though.

How the hell does that make it impossible for him to be a lich? Yuan-ti liches don't exist?

Are liches a trope in English lit or something?

Is this guy a lich?

>implying that voldemort only made 7 horcruxes

A cursed mortal.

>Put most of your power into a magic blop
>Don't tell anyone, make it seem like the other seven are all you made
>Make up some prophecy about being killed
>Fake your death by letting some kid you maimed, turned into one of your bonus blops and tormented to make sure he found out about your blop plan so he can 'kill' you
>Live out eternity gaining power quietly for whatever reason you want without anyone looking for you

It's a solid enough plan.

So he's a snake-themed lich.

>for less twisted folks it corrupts them by embellishing their worst qualities, often by preying on their insecurities.

Friendly reminder Harry was a horcrux

Friendly reminder he lived with the Dursleys for his entire life

Literally more than a decade living with a corrupting Eldritch abomination

They might, but odds are good they wouldn't be part of Yuan-Ti Culture, being that they have powers outside of the structure of it, which is something the Yuan-Ti don't really tolerate.

Who cast the spell involving the bone dust? I can't remember. That's a powerful amount of magic they must have been a pretty good wizard.

>HPatMoR.

Wesley Crusher but a wizard.

It's funny as fuck that Rowling can come up on some really brilliant pieces of lore for the HP universe and NEVER expand upon them.

For example, the reason why everyone calls Voldemort "You-Know-Who".
In seventh book, we find out there is Taboo on the Voldemort's name, and whenever it is spoken a deathsquad of Death Eater immediately Apparates to your location.
It just makes sense that people don't say his name, because during the first war with Tommy, the Taboo ALSO existed, and thus, it is more like a force of habit and being scared that every time you speak his name, you endanger yourself, your family and your friends.

But do we ever see that actually detailed upon in the books? FUCK NO.
This is the reason why Rowling's writing is shit - because she doesn't want to actually expand on the worldbuilding of her world and find reasons for why the Wizarding World is in the state we see it in the books.

So the idea is that if Vold rezzes, he can go and "recenter" himself by visiting his Horcrux pieces?
Also nice trips.

Pretty much this. She can’t be assed to follow continuity of her own series and she’s too overly protective of it to let others fill in the gaps, so instead she spends all her time trying to convince people Hermione has been black the whole time.

The more I hear of and learn about Rowling the more I dislike her. Which is sad, I really did like those books.

How long until she Harry Potter and the Star Wars Prequels?

Wow, this is thorough. Why did the Tumblr it was on originally go down?

Isn’t that what Fantastic Beasts was trying to be? The start of a prequel series?

It's more like a spin-off in the past, to be honest.
Grindewald's war isn't immediately important to Harry's reality. If it was located further in the timeline (like the Maradeurs era), then you could've argued it was a prequel.

I also feel this way now. I especially despise her belief that all goodness and justice come from and only from the EU. Before th at it was nothing but aristocrats forcing orphans up the chimneys in the soot factories.

...

Don't want to waste my time by reading it entirely, but the points that i did read were weak as fuck. And this:
>the only character trait worth anything in the story (both implicitly and explicitly) is intelligence, and the primary use of intelligence within the story is manipulation
is just plain wrong. The main use of intelligence in that story is abusing holes in the HP plot for shits and giggles. For the most part, the "manipulations" in HPMoR were literally child's play, which was created for comedy. Yeah, because the whole fanfic is basically comedy, as it was intended to be.
But, i guess, i can't expect too much from dumb tumbler users and their sympathizers.

I would say unlike a Lich in other forms, he found himself stuck in one the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises. Seriously each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody?just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.

Took you long enough.

Does it have a Jar Jar?

>In seventh book, we find out there is Taboo on the Voldemort's name, and whenever it is spoken a deathsquad of Death Eater immediately Apparates to your location.
The Taboo on Voldemort's name is only imposed during the seventh book, re-purposing Ministry techniques under the rationale only those opposed to Voldemort would dare use his name. It's never expanded upon prior to that because it doesn't exist until then.

That's exactly my point.
IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR PEOPLE TO FEAR THE VOLDEMORT'S NAME IF TABOO EXISTED BEFORE THE VOLDEMORT'S FALL.

But Rowling simply handwaves the whole thing.

>putting Tolkein with the likes of Martin and Rowling
>Hamlet = low tier
this list needs to stop being copypasta, it's not even good bait anymore

Good thinking, I suspect Voldemort was a Wizard as well

>could use magic
>went to a wizard school
>is referred to as a wizard several times

it's just a theory though; Im not 100% sure or anything

It's from a japanese light novel with like 40 volumes (with the volume with the mummy being volune 35)

>Are liches a trope in English lit or something?
They are a trope in paint-by-numbers fantasy fiction, of which this series is a shining example. Shouldn't be too surprising this and half a hundred other things ripped right from the DM's Guide show up.

>It's a solid enough plan.
Sure, assuming you couldn't accomplish the exact same thing by just doing fuck-all for the first few books / films. It's not like anybody was looking for the dude before he started shaking shit up.

>he found himself stuck in one the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises
That's being a bit dramatic. The third one was kinda watchable, right? That alone puts it in the top 50% or so of film franchises. Never doubt the power of the human imagination to come up with a duller sequel; it is infinite.

Also - who the hell made that infographic? The acuteness of schizophrenia implied by that ranking system is truly stupefying.

Why does everyone praise The Prisoner of Azkaban so much? I found it boring as fuck.

it was the last book that wasn't twice as long as it needed to be

>A is a subset of B
>X is a member of A
>therefore, X is a member of B
yep, that checks out.

You read "kinda watchable" as "so much praise"?

I've seen some low bars in my time, but I think that one would reduce even the Limbo World Champion to tears.

>best book
Prisoner of Azkaban
>best movie
Philosopher's Stone, Chamber of Secrets
>best game
Order of Phoenix
>worst everything
Half-Blood Prince

I'm not talking about you in particular. I see a lot of people praising PoA as the best Harry Potter book even though I find ultra-boring and literally nothing happens till the climax.
I had exactly the same problem with The Empire Strikes Back.

I fucking loved using magic to bully losers in the OoP game.
I hated it when the next game removed the ability to use magic while walking around.

>I had exactly the same problem with The Empire Strikes Back.
Usually, when you have the feeling that it's everybody but you, it's you.

Guys. Guys.

Look at the evidence. Really think about it. It all fits together.

Imhotep was a MUMMY.

apply cat directly to the mummy

>basing your opinion on what the majority thinks
Yeah, no. I don't give a fuck if I'm the only guy on Earth who thinks that way, unless I see a compelling arguement I'm not going to change my mind.

You don't have to change your mind, just know that you have shit taste and come to peace with it.

HOLY SHIT YOU SERIOUSLY BLEW MY FUCKING MIND LIKE OH EM GEE LIKE WOW DUDE LIKE JESUS CHRIST HOW THE FUCKING FUCK DIDN'T I SEE THIS BEFORE HOLY SHIT BUSH DID 9/11 I CAN'T EVEN MY LIFE IS A LIE I READ ALL THE BOOKS AND THIS NEVER CROSSED MY MIND FOR AN IOTA HOLY FUCK THANK YOU OP YOU MADE MY GOD DAMN DAY BRO EKS DEE SHIT

Mummies were also wizards if that is their reaction to pussy.

Wormtail

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If everyone else can see the value in something, and you can't see it, that's an issue with you. Believing "I don't like that movie" is fine. Believing "That movie is bad! Everyone is wrong but me!" is childish.

But I don't believe that, I just said I don't find it as good as everyone does and I haven't seen any arguements that made me change my mind.
And I want to point out that I fucking love Star Wars so it's not like I'm determined to dislike the movie no matter what. Fuck, I don't even dislike it, I just don't understand why it gets so much praise.

>compelling arguement
not him, but
PoA introduces multiple important elements of the HP universe, such as Azkaban, Dementors, Harry's parents' friends, Hogsmeade, Cornelius Fudge, Daily Prophet etc. etc.
Also, relationship with Sirius is an important tool that is given to Harry, as is Marauders Map.
It's also the first time we actually hear about what kind of people Harry's parents were, and the first time we see the Wizarding World at large on high alert (because, somehow, Basilisk roaming free at the only wizarding school doesn't consist a danger in opinion of wizards, but whatever).
Like, seriously. It established a lot of important elements, and most importantly, gave a Wizarding World connection to Harry. Before, he only had a couple of friends there. After PoA, he actually has family (even if Sirius isn't exactly the best godfather).

If I had to rank books, it would probably be PoA = DH > OoP > PS = CoS > piling sack of shit > GoF > rotting carcass stuffed with shit > HBP.

See, I can agree with that but my main issue with PoA is how dull and boring it is.
It focuses so much on explaining aspects of the world and introduce new elements that it forgets that it's supposed to have a plot so you have Harry fucking around for most of the book till the climax happens.
Funnily enough, I have literally the same issue with The Empire Strikes Back. The Battle of Hoth is pretty good and the climax is good-tier but I felt like Luke's training took too much of the movie's runtime and I couldn't give less of a fuck about the whole bit about Leia and the others escaping from the Empire.
Granted, I watched both movies (and read the book) when I was pretty young so it's quite likely that the first impression they left on me had an effect on my opinion.

HOLY SHIT
that might be why they were such assholes

I'm pretty sure they said in that book that it was in place before

>good-tier
god-tier

I wish they'd used that more than twice, or attempted to

A lot of that exposition is pretty interesting to read, to be honest. It's why we read the HP books in general. At that point, plot didn't really matter, because PoA seriously expanded upon the magical and whimsical nature of the HP universe.
Things like butterbeer and joke shops, Knight Bus and Fortescue, Shrieking Shack and talking portraits, the Marauders Map and Dementors - all of that was simply fun to read about.
Before PoA, Harry Potter universe existed in this sort of vacuum. PoA filled that vacuum and explored the world, and some people simply enjoy world exploration.

Here OP, you earned it.

Even if they did (which I doubt, but can't remember enough to disprove), they didn't make a good job of pointing it out.

Whaaaaaa---? Кoшчeј Бecмepтни was a Lich?

they have character-building and world-building during those times
I can see how you'd find those boring but only if you didn't care about the characters or the world
IDK, I'm more into sci-fi and that's a genre that absolutely loves to explain things, go into detail, and build up a world and a bunch of lore, and that's what the middle of that book and several Harry Potter books are mainly doing, despite being modern fantasy

>Кoшчeј Бecмepтни
Кoщeй Бeccмepтный.
Кoщeй is derived from "кoщyнcтвo", which basically is a synonym to witchery, heresy and sorcery.

So... Im guessing the 'usual' way a horcrux works is

> have horcrux
> die. Spirit sticks around as weak spoopy ghost
> time passes
> someone finds your horcrux, slowly has their life force leeched and dies
> horcrux spawns a saved copy of you from when you made it
> saved copy and spoopy ghost eventually find each other and merge willingly, combining their memory and power to fully restore

Remember, Voldemorte went through his custom spell ritual not to come back to life, but to come back in a way that made him no longer get instantly BTFO just by touching the guy already destined to kill him. Which was way more work, but probably the right call?

Voldemort, ironically, probanly could have been back in play just a few weeks or months after death if only he had instructed his followers how to revive him . But that would have meant expising a weakness and planning for failure, so I guess its in keeping with his established pride not to have done that.

>"Usually, when you have the feeling that it's everybody but you, it's you."
>basing your opinion on what the majority thinks
Nice strawman (seriously, it is very finely made). But I'm not talking about being a sheep, user, I'm talking about objectivity. One of the marks of wisdom is acknowledging the possibility that you're wrong.