The world has full plate and rapiers

You can bitch when you are sitting in line to buy health potions from a dragon at the mall.

Yeah I was going to mention the greatsword too but last time I discussed this with some plebbitor he told me that the greatsword didn't count because the claymore is older than guns. Obviously the greatsword is not the claymore in the manual but a Zweihander, which is a very late sword, guns existed for more than 100 years before Zweihanders.

BRONZE AGE

Putting on my autist hat, it's plausible that armour technology could advance in response to magic, rather than firearms.

Or, shit, just the mere existence of monsters.

Would rapiers co-exist with arming swords and longswords?

With longswords yes, with arming swords no.

Longsword vs rapier is a common match covered in many medieval fencing manuals (btw the longsword loses most of the time, sorry longsword fags).

I fluffed in a pseudo-flintlock system for my setting, using rolled up explosion runes as the ammunition, and transfer runes on bits of paper as the powder in the pan

studded leather

>Wizards of the school of armor create magically infused plate armor as defense against magic attacks.
>Wizards of the school of attack invent guns with magically infused bullets to bypass such armor.
>Wizard arms race.

nothing is stopping you from adding them to the game

as it should be

What can you tell me about the Basket-hilted sword? Why did it become popular?

Who needs a gun when you already have Fire Bolts?

More surface area for more powerful and complex spells.

Should technology of a specific era be a package deal+ Are technologies that were present in the same period of real world history always intrinsically linked to each other? Is there some reason why the know-how required for making full plate and rapiers can't be achieved without inventing guns in the process?

This is hardly unique to 5e. There's a dearth of gunpowder-based weapons in every standard edition of D&D. Even settings where they're nominally available, like the Forgotten Realms, tend to gloss over them.

I think it's a bit silly looking for historical accuracy from fantasy setting. People don't expect guns in their sword-and-magic role-playing game so DnD made the correct business decision to not include them.

DnD can do this as they aren't marketing themselves as an accurate representation of any time period, and don't think anyone sees them that way.

>Ship are armed with cannons.
>But people still use catapults on land.

No just retards who never read DMG, and it's not like it's hard to add them.

In 2e I had a thief who used an arquebuse, it had a ROF of 1/3, so I had 4 hirelings, loading them for me, and handing them to me so I could shoot them.

People fear guns because they falsely believe that the apparition of guns immediately doomed plate armor guys and any form of melee combat. In fact, both were involved into an arm race that lasted for a quite few centuries until guns finally won the race. And knights were going out of fashion due the societal changes more than because of guns. Knights, slowly became mercenaries on their own without guns having anything to do with it.

Traveller tho

>If you want your historically accurate RPG experience, there’s plenty of games out there for you.
there really isn't. Historically accurate RPG is a woefully under-represented genre. I can think of one (phoenix command?) and its far far too complex to casual play like D&D.

>not homebrewing guns in
pretty sure there are stats for guns somewhere in D&D, just add them.

Guns are lame

What if I told you that D&D is an ahistorical game, not meant to reflect real-world patterns in history, technology or culture?

>invent guns
yeah they're called staffs, or wands

and armored wizards are always the dumbest shit

He wouldn't care. The sole purpose of this thread was for him to wank over his historical knowledge he got from some lindybeige video or something.

why build guns when their is rampant magic? Magic kills technology.

What stops you from playing any other generic system? GURPS is you like it crunchy, Savage Worlds if not, FATE if you like it super mushy

Does it? I get the feeling that wizards would be the first to invent guns and fairly quickly.

>the longsword loses most of the time, sorry longsword fags
where does this stem from? Is Rapier implying an off-hand weapon as well because I can't see Reach plus Strength advantage of the Longsword losing.

>Alchemist with access to magic, super-science and magic components dont invent gunpowder and enchanted bullets in record time.

Because in real life a rapier is nearly as long if not longer than a longsword, and it's faster and just as deadly.
Plus it looks pretty fly on your hip and doesn't get in the way as much.

Although saying "longsword loses mosts of the time" strips out the important aspect of how good a weapon is - the context it was used in.

But rest assured unless you're facing a bloke in some pretty heavy armour you want the rapier in most cases.

What if I told you that neither red pill, nor blue pill is the correct choice, Morpheus?

Is this in context of the matrix or is it some political bollocks?

>Not having magically enchanced cannons, with alchemical gunpowder, vomiting devastating spells over the enemy.

Why bother when you can use alchemy to forge materials for even crazier magitech spells?

>yet there are no guns
>What is the DM's guide?

There are guns in the DM's guide. Lots of guns. And grenades.

I dont think the fantasy crowd is quite ready for portable lasers.

>the world has full plate and rapiers
>yet there are no guns
>Why is 5e so retarded?
Have-you-tried-not-playing-dnd.png

>everything else sucks, i don't like it, i want to play d&d with guns, reee
Ok, then use the gun stats inside the dmg

>that stats sucks, i don't like it, i want better stats!
Ok, how about you make it yourself?

>i don't wanna

Here, i summed up the thread/

Not necessarily lasers, imagine more like the DnD spell Firebrand. You expend alchemists fire to cast geysers of liquid fire.

You use pseudo magi-science to cast even wilder magic. Speaking from experience, it's a really fun way to play a wizard.

Didn't bother anyone in 1980.

What was the thought experiment called that deconstructed D&D settings by following magic to its inevitable conclusion? Typpeverse?

>Because in real life a rapier is nearly as long if not longer than a longsword
Oh, never knew this. Cool!

>the context it was used in.
Well I guess I now have context why longswords were more of a 'civil militia hacking people down from siege ladders' weapon and less of a dueling weapon

The way I see it, the use of magic has precluded firearm development for your military units, while the expanding values of metallurgy and crossbows have caused plate to evolve and rapiers to target weak spots in said plate or to land quick, lethal shots on those squishy mages or duel for sport.

Not perfect, but I think it works well enough.

Well weirdly enough you'd be sorta wrong, because a bunch of longsword manuals were all about duelling, or at least included bits about it. But the term "longsword" is dubious as fuck anyway because there isn't really a good answer as to what a longsword was, aside from a long two handed sword, which existed for a really, really long time and was used by a bunch of different people for different things.

Weapons are kinda weird when you start looking into it, all your preconceptions are totally wrong for no good reason other than culture inexplicably made shit up.

>manuals
Think hard about who wrote manuals and whether they were relevant: a lot of them truly weren't.

Matrix, duh.

I don’t like giving my player characters access to gunpowder. They tend to want to use it.

>Well weirdly enough you'd be sorta wrong, because a bunch of longsword manuals were all about duelling
Those manuals I read all had techniques for formation-fighting as basic techniques with the 1v1 Meisterhaus being advanced stuff, which makes sense if you remember that judicial duels were also often longsword fights for some reason.

It was a thought experiment that relied on rules-constructs unique to 3.5 dnd to create a sort-of-industrial post-scarcity dystopoia. It doesn't work outside of that particular ruleset and its quirks like auto-resetting infinite-use magical 'traps' that players can construct.

I've seen people trying to push it on other rulesets and settings, but it just doesn't translate.

Aye, I'm not saying they're the be all and end all of longsword combat because they for sure weren't (and they admit it themselves, lichtenauer describes himself as writing to fight the "common method" and I.33 is an advanced book of tricks)
But they're at least evidence that longsword was a duelling weapon as well as a weapon of war.
>for some reason
I'm gonna guess they were relatively common and so it was felt that'd be relatively fair.

It has more to do with the modern need to autistically categorize everything. Sometimes a sword is just a sword, even if it doesn't look exactly like every other thing called sword.
Imagine 1000 years from now people will insist the IS-2 and Tiger tanks can be categorized more deeply than just "heavy tank" because one has angles and curves and the other doesn't.

>I'm gonna guess they were relatively common and so it was felt that'd be relatively fair.
wrong.
Obviously the screw-on throwable pommels that were folded a million times provided such a massive advantage over all the rapier-judicial duelists, the latter were dead before they could advocate their weapon.

longsword chads 1
rapier virgins 0

>Imagine 1000 years from now people will insist the IS-2 and Tiger tanks can be categorized more deeply than just "heavy tank" because one has angles and curves and the other doesn't.

One of my friends is a big tank fanboy, and at least in world of tanks he obsesses over the curvature and thickness of tank armor. Apparently angling is important.

>not eating the spoon

what are you, some sort of homosexual?

1610 is a nerd pulling his pants way too up.

1610 three-quarter suit virgin

1515 Maximilian Chad

Indeed it was, but advances in ammunition and armor during the Cold War have made many of the old design concerns obsolete.

Currently have guns in my OSR game and my players are having a blast using and dealing with them. The problem with a lot of guns out there is that they're all shitty unrealistic trash. A lot of published rules for DnD seem to assume that guns are like some kind of super weapon that do 10d100 damage or something and so make them take 5 rounds to reload because that's 'realistic'. When in reality, some heavy Crossbows took LONGER to reload versus a musket. If crossbows in your system take 1 round to reload, guns should too.

Especially assuming if you use 10 second rounds, muskets are noted for having a rate of fire of 3-4 rpm anyway so your character what the fuck is your character doing during those 40 seconds? Jerking off into the barrel?

I asked to swap out my hand crossbows for flintlocks and my DM said it was okay

Because it is a fantasy setting and not a history setting. If you play 5e in a history setting, then you can complain.

D&D ALLOWS FOR GUNS
THIS THREAD IS ASININE
FEW OF THE SETTINGS HAVE GUNS BECAUSE THOSE SETTINGS HAVE EXPANSIVE HISTORIES OF THEIR OWN AND DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EMULATE THE TIMELINE OF EUROPE YEAR FOR YEAR
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

It's not really retarded. As far as we know gunpowder was discovered once by accident and then took hundreds of years to refine.

It's easy to imagine a world in which it wasn't discovered until later if at all.

Very convenient how fantasy alchemist find all kinds of crazy shit, like immortality, turning lead into gold, alchemist fire, flesh-eating acids ect. BUT NOT gunpowder.

There are lots of magical reagents floating around in Fantasy land.

...

>immortality
Since 3.0, the paradigm D&D has abided by is that true immortality is supremely difficult to achieve. In 3.0, 3.5, 4E (Epic Destinies aside), and 5E, immortality is always a massively complicated undertaking that usually can be reversed.
The only reliable source of true and lasting immortality that I know of is an obscure and hilariously weak prestige class, Cloud Anchorite.
>turning lead into gold
Transmutation from like to like ain't shit
>alchemist fire
Good for civvies but not really that impressive of a material.
>flesh-eating acids
Come from slimes mostly.

Imagine the day Veeky Forums actually checks the books before bitching about a system.

You know very well that these are just the tip of the iceberg in D&D crazyland even more when you mix it with magic. Fantasy guns should be easier to achieve than in the real world.

you know its fantasy
as in its not real or a representation of past events

The thing is, when you check the books, you generally find that a writer already addressed the issue, so we don't see those cases because these readers don't see the need to come screaming online about something they thought was omitted.

>implying my world doesn't have renaissance era firearms

Page 268 of the Dungeon Masters Guide you cocksucking retard, did you actually read any of the books or Google it?

Tippyverse. GitP thread, iirc. Lots of bunker cities connected by portal magic, golem superguards, Create Food/water machines feeding the populace, and a monster-filled deadland outside.

Only works with 3.5's unique combination of broken magic and autism, but neat enough setting.

Why not?

>GitP thread, iirc
I don't know if he originally posted the idea on GitP, but Emperor Tippy was a big name in the 3.5 forum. You could always count on him to have some absolute batshit insanity which was completely rules-legal. Also I fucking love his thumbnail.

Anyway, here's his Tippyverse post for the curious.
giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy

Because it lets you hold more forward stances without risk of having your fingers get fucked up.

Large two-handed swords existed in the early 13th century, so-called épées de guerre and the likes, but sure they were far and in-between and not as popular as during the 15th and 16th centuries.

>Longsword vs rapier is a common match covered in many medieval fencing manuals
Which one exactly?
Italians had moved away from the longsword a good generation before the rapier was fully developped. The germans would have maybe Meyer but his rappier is more like a sidesword/arming sword, Mair maybe, but that wouldn't be "a common match" and "many medieval fencing manuals"...

and even then they're just Not!Crossbows really

i remember trying to home-brew in things for every little thing I didn't like about D&D when I realized that D&D just isn't my cup of tea

Switching to GURPs has been great for me personally, though I'd gladly run 5e if my friends wanted me to, on that note fuck shotgun rules they make me feel like a brainlet

>hurr durr a fantasy world has to follow real world technological development and physics

It doesn't need to, but it makes it harder to laugh at for being a simpleton's setting.

C'mon, the shotguns basically work like any other gun.