I always see you guys complaining about the character of Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons.
How would YOU write her then?
>Mother of Dragons
*wyverns
Why do people do this
Anyone and their dog should be able to grasp the concept that dragons are more than just modern, 6-limbed fantasy monster
If all the berniebros hadn't voted trump she would be president now
>autism
Only heraldry scholars and autistic neckbeards care about the distinction.
Real-world myths and legends surely didn't.
>and so Saint George slew the foul dragon
>ACTCHUALLY
I'd start by making her likeable and not have her act like a huge bitch when crossed.
For instance, if I wanted her to be sympathetic, I'd maybe not have her randomly execute her enemies by dragonfire or crucifixion when frustrated, because these things tend to be offputting and more along the lines of the villains in the show.
>How would YOU write her then?
Veeky Forums can't write for shit they just bitch about other peoples writing then deflect when you ask quetions like this. Pretty much same shit taste as Veeky Forums or /tv/.
Make her less of a total fucking hypocrite if the audience is supposed to empathize with her and see her as a great leader.
>resents the power structure of Westeros, speaks of "breaking the wheel"
>invades aiming to seize the throne because of birthright
>complains about noble lines leading to unfit rulers
>spends an entire season demanding Jon bend the knee purely because of her last name and royal claim, without trying to convince him why he should
>leads a revolt against inhumane treatment of slaves, lower class etc because wow they're all humans too
>randomly executes nobles in Meereen, literally picking them at random on at least two occasions
>feeds her enemies to her dragons
>crucifies people by the hundreds
>burns people alive
>has to be reminded by her advisors that burning cities to the ground is a bad thing
>attempts to be the good guy and take the moral high ground
>uses the in-setting equivalent of nuclear weapons
>leads an army of savage, raping, enslaving raiders
She's fine in the books, it's the tvshow that portrays her as an unlikeable marysue played by a fat womanlet with mediocre acting skill and not enough looks to make up for it
>leads a revolt against inhumane treatment of slaves, lower class etc because wow they're all humans too
>leads an army of savage, raping, enslaving raiders
Wasn't the woman she burned to death early in the show also a slave who wanted revenge for the destruction of her people by Khaal Drogo?
I have no probem with characters being hypocritical and having double standards because that's how most people are. What surprises me is how her hypocrisy is never commented on by any of the other characters and how everyone seems to worship her unconditionally.
>What surprises me is how her hypocrisy is never commented on by any of the other characters and how everyone seems to worship her unconditionally.
this. I don't mind Cersei's hypocrisies because she's routinely hated by other characters for it. What I hate is how several smart, rational characters fawn over her for reasons I never quite understand.
Being able to identify a bad job isn't the same as being able to do it better. I don't have to be a pro athlete to tell when an athlete fucks up in mid game.
>fat womanlet with mediocre acting skill and not enough looks to make up for it
Angry femanon detected
Could you spare some of your jelly? I need it for my toast.
She's fine in the books.
Though I would like her to acknowledge her own bat shit insanity every once in a while
>Only heraldry scholars and autistic neckbeards care about the distinction.
It's not even accurate to actual heraldry.
I sincerely thought her story in the show was a protagonist-journey-to-villain arc.
Is that not why they constantly compare her to her father, who also burned his enemies alive?
Go back to Veeky Forums. Veeky Forums is about games, not your fantasy novel wank.
either have her actually be as good as people say she is, or have people call her on her shit and stop trying to portray as too pure for this sinful world
this
everyone else is constantly hoisted on their own petard, but she gets to fly around on her dragons while her fuccbois do all the damage control.
>Mary Sue Waifu
Hillary Clinton would have been a terrible president just like Trump is. The only good thing to come out of the 2016 election is that we now have proof that Hillary Clinton is objectively unable to defeat Donald Trump in an election and therefore can conclude Bernie likely would have won so be sure to rub it in the faces of as many Hillary drones as you possibly can
I have a hard time picturing Bernie Sanders voters voting for Trump unless they're literally just contrarian memelords who wanted to flip the table on the political process and didn't care who did it. In which case Hillary was literally never going to get their votes.
Democrats always have this weird, defensive idea that votes belong to them, and are taken away from them. You see this displayed at every Green Party vote, every minority who doesn't vote Democrat, etc. They honestly think they own your vote and you're actively depriving them from it. You wouldn't believe the reactions I get for being a black Republican.
hi jorah
>Only heraldry scholars and autistic neckbeards care about the distinction.
there's a difference?
Also I'm sure the monks argued about what dragons. wyverns and wyrms looked like constantly.
>Showfag
Something like 9-11% of Bernie voters flipped sides to Republicans, which fits with the usual 10% of people who switch every year or so.
So yeah, there are lot of contrarian memelords who wanted to flip the table on the political process.
>Bookfag
Enjoy your series of doorstoppers laden with bloat and pointless rambling and shitty plotlines the show was wise to excise like the entirety of the Lady Stoneheart arc. Have fun REEEEing when us "showfags" spoil it for you next year while you're stuck waiting desperately hoping an obese man in his 60s lives long enough to finish the books before keeling over.
>A-a-a-at least my shitty abortion of an adaptation will be finished!
Gee, how lucky you are.
>even GRRM has defended the show and shittalked book purists
youtu.be
EMMY-WORTHY WRITING
It's like you have never heard of a protest vote. If doing something crazy is the only way you are going to get heard, you are likely to do it. It's satisfying to put a grenade within the system that systematically ignores you and your concerns.
>Catelyn Stark comes back as an angry half-sentient zombie
It's to late for her on the show. I bet that she, not Arya, is the one who gets her revenge on the Freys.
First, fully sentient. Secondly, how is any of this bad.
Protest votes are not votes that belong to Democrats and are being withheld from them.
It's the DNC's fault for illegally conspiring to aid an unliked, unpopular bitch who the electorate hated. Maybe that's why so many protest voters felt like throwing a grenade in the system was the only way to get heard.
Because it's fucking silly even by ASoIaF standards.
Euron will kill John Snow or Danerys. Then he will drown.
No, it isn't. Beric isn't silly, is he?
>black republican
Neat, it's like seeing a unicorn. Out of curiosity, how is that working for you?
Wait, am I misreading you? 9-11%, which fits with the usual.
So, there are no more contrarian memelords than usual. Aren't there ~10% of Republicans who switched, as well? Mostly Never Trumpers.
The thing about such a close and contentious election is that almost any factor that can be shown to persuade any statistically significant number of voters could, hypothetically, have been the straw that broke the harpy's back. So absolutely everything is hailed as "the real reason Hillary lost," or pitched as "If not for this one thing, she would've won..."
Let's face it, the reason Hillary lost is because she's Hillary Fucking Clinton. The Democrats could've just put "Not Trump" on their ballot and probably won 70-30.
Doran Martell is the most overrated book character ever.
>Everbody thinks that I'm weak, but I actually have a master plan of revenge!
>Okay, what's your master plan
>I wait until my enemies die of old age!
The entitlement Clinton supporters felt always manages to astonish me. I don't blame the Sanders crowd for not voting for Clinton because they're nothing alike. Clinton is like a weird career politician whose fixated with being a militant centrist and her seemingly only campaign platforms were making references to the Ellen show, Katy Perry concerts, and Hamilton. Bernie offered single payer healthcare and education reform, things that actually affect people who aren't hipster dipshits in Brooklyn that write for online magazines. Hillary Clinton and supporters shouldn't look further than a mirror for who to blame for not winning the election. She sucked, her supporters were only a few notches above fucking Trump supporters
Can you please stop talking about american politics in a thread that has nothing to do with american politics.
He is.
There are only two groups I've ever seen use the phrase "race traitor" unironically. White supremacists - and I mean real ones, like backwoods militia types - and black people who learn you voted Republican. You should see the shit Democrat outlets put out for GOTV efforts towards black people, they really act like they fucking own us. It's disgusting.
The entire campaign she just had this overwhelmingly smug air of "It's my turn!". Even her book which is worth the read, it's unintentionally hilarious is pretty much grumbling about how it was supposed to be her turn.
I mean it's not more then usual, yeah, my point is that the usual is still pretty fucking high.
I think high is a good thing, tee be eich. We have too many people who uncritically vote the party line no matter what. The people who can side with one side and still look at an individual election and go "You know what, the other side is actually making some good points this time" are probably more informed, more active, and more interested than people on either side who just shrug and vote for the same party no matter what.
I'm not a writer but probably have her used by competent people rather than try to make her competent or seem that way.
In the books she's just a little kid at first right? And most of the way through isn't older than a young woman. So I'd probably just have her more or less led around and manipulated (without realizing it) by older and experienced people who want her on the throne for their own benefit. And then to set her apart from the pack, she ends up involved or attracting magic stuff in the setting. So it's kind of like
>"Great, we've got a Targ girl here so if we play our cards right we can shove her on the throne and run this shit and get rich and powerful! She's a nice girl too so we can just keep her distracted the whole time... now if only she wouldn't keep fucking collecting dragons and other magic shit, what the fuck I thought all that shit was just fairy tales."
>How would YOU write her then?
See The books portrayed her perfectly fine as a tyrant unaware of her own insanity, it's the show that converts her into the Perfect Woman.
That said, half of the people, and soldiers would be 15 years old or even younger. Not that rare to see a ridiculous young leader leading the men (boys) to their doom.
Look at the people who worship her.
They tend to fall into one of three categories:
Either they're Dothraki who respect strength, which she embodies with her dragons, and who she led out of the Desert
They're slaves, who she freed from captivity and put in a position of power
Or they're adventurers hitching on to her bandwagon in hope she'll do well by them when she takes power in Westeros.
The first two have very good reasons to love and respect her, while the last want to suck up to her.
The critics she's come up against so far she's tortured and burned to death, which the Dothraki take as par for the course, the freed slaves revel in, as so far it's mainly been slavers she's been burning, and the adventurers view with increasing concern if they're sincere or twisted approval if they're not.
Also it probably helps that anyone who disagrees with her too strongly gets lumped into the critic pile.
>my word for a great serpent is different from your word for a great serpent
I'm not saying it isn't, but was Dany even raised to be a leader in mind? Like if she was raised on educaiton of ruling and leading and diplomacy and such, sure that's some potential even if she's a female in a medieval setting.
Correct me if I'm wrong though but she mostly just grew up a carefree life and things didn't start getting real till she got married. It seemed like her brother was being manipulated so why not her, at even younger age and even less experienced?
>B-But she's fine in the books
As someone who reads the books and stopped watching the series in season 3, no she's not, once she gets to slaver's bay she becomes insufferable.
You literally can't name a single person she burned to death who was just a "critic".
She actually grew up poor, just like her brother, and it wasn't until much later in life until they were picked up by Illyrio. Neither of them received much education on ruling.
Mostly because Illyrio didn't intend for either of them to rule at all. Aegon is his pet project, while Viserys and Dany are just sacrifical lambs never intended to live very long.
Right, so I wouldn't have written Dany to suddenly pull her ability to rule out of hammerspace, and probably had her continue to be manipulated as had always been the case seemingly.
Aegon is unintentionally hilarious because Varys and Illyrio were so obsessed with their ideal perfect prince and forgot that he was a kid being raised by a very specific individual. One who imprinted on him that he had to be king and prove how great he was.
Aegon's kind of a bitch, too. Varys goes on and on about how well-educated, humble, noble and wise he is... And everything we've seen him do has been petulant and petty.
You sound pretty cool, I'd buy you a drink
Gotta love how fucking stupid that image is
Great bias though. It'd be better if it actually compared the two, rather than one equating to:
"REEE DANNY IS BAD BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE REE."
Somebody wrote this genius explanation of Varys' plan.
>Original plan
The fool Viserys and a Dothraki Khalasar (gained through little obedient Dany's marriage to Drogo) are to cross over and pillage Westeros, with the Golden Company there too. The Golden Company and the revealed Aegon mop up. It doesn't matter how Aerys' children feel about Aegon, since Viserys is a dumbass and a weakling. And Dany will probably not survive the horselords and she's just a girl. Endgame: Aegon VI, rightful Targaryen heir by all laws of Westeros (as the eldest trueborn son of Prince Rhaegar), wins the Throne. Is actually Aegon Mopatis Blackfyre, lulz.
>As expected
Robert calls for Dany's death. Varys + Illyrio comply, again showing their lack of care for the Targaryens. It doesn't matter. If Dany dies, Drogo's pissed and invades. If Dany manages to survive, Drogo's pissed and invades
>Disaster
Drogo dies, the Khalasar disbands.
>Wonderfully shocking news
Daenerys has become a Mother of 3 Dragons and is in Qarth. This is a more-than-suitable replacement for Drogo's 40,000 warriors. Illyrio sends 3 ships, Ser Barristan the Bold, and of course Strong Belwas to bring her back to Pentos
>Another Surprise from Dany
The young girl has suddenly chosen to go her own route in Slaver's Bay. No matter, think Varys and Illyrio, we'll wait for her to turn towards Volantis. Send Young Griff and co. there to meet up with Dany, her dragons, and her large army/following. Daenerys Stormborn is now the most formidable power in her own right, her hand in marriage is necessary for Aegon to take the Throne.
>Goddamnit
Dany is continuing to linger in Meereen, trying to learn how to be a good Queen. Well, no point ruing on roads not taken, send Young Griff and his entourage to Slaver's Bay.
>For fuck's sake
The Griffs and the Golden Company have grown frustrated and impatient. "Fuck the dragons, bring me elephants", and so the Company has landed in the Stormlands to take the Throne. Alone. Against orders. 10,000 men only, scattered across the region. Potential failure looms.
>We must go on paddling:
Varys sees that Cersei's disastrous reign as Regent has terribly weakened Tommen's backing and support. The alliances that prop up her children's hold on the Throne, are collapsing. Mayhaps her paranoia and insanity can continue to be used to help Aegon gather his strength and push for King's Landing. But first the obstacles to Cersei's chaotic ruling must be removed. And so Kevan gets himself in a quarrel, and Pycelle takes a nasty backstab.
Thanks, user.
Make her a villainous, anarchistic rabble rouser.
Can't be that hard since people already think of her as a hypocritical bitch.
Historically it would make more sense. Black people do tend to focus on their past grievances, so it'd make sense for them to support the party that freed them.
Her story in book one was compelling enough. I didn't think it was super amazing, but I'm not an """oppressed""" 21st century white American woman. Still, it was interesting to watch her grow throughout the book and ended with sufficient (if predictable) pay-off.
Book 2 Dany was still fine. Gurm tried to have Dany be a little more ambitious than the first book by having her deal with Qartheen intrigues. Debatable how well he pulled that off but it was still worth a read, and the pay-off with the Undying was imo more satisfying than the first book's lolmagic ritual outta nowhere. All in all at the end of book 2 I like Dany, I like her entourage, I care about her story and I'm rooting for her to succeed. Any changes I'd make to the story would either be minor or cosmetic. Far too granular to list ITT.
Then the rest of the books happen and all elements of struggle and character growth get removed/become nominal as Dany fights an increasingly faceless, characterless gauntlet of mustache twirling Disney villains.
I'd write her different(better) by not having her go to Slaver's Bay. Have her hook up with Illyrio, figure out his manipulations, then struggle against him and overcome him as necessary. Don't just dick around for the entire series getting worshipped by all the helpless brown people who need strong white woman to save them.
>characterless gauntlet of mustache twirling Disney villains.
Hizdahr did nothing wrong, and was not a villain. He was framed.
>Then the rest of the books happen and all elements of struggle and character growth get removed/become nominal as Dany fights an increasingly faceless, characterless gauntlet of mustache twirling Disney villains.
>I'd write her different(better) by not having her go to Slaver's Bay. Have her hook up with Illyrio, figure out his manipulations, then struggle against him and overcome him as necessary. Don't just dick around for the entire series getting worshipped by all the helpless brown people who need strong white woman to save them.
If you have time, please consider reading this.
>supporting a murderous traitor is slightly better than supporting an arrogant blowhard
You heard it here first, folks.
For some reason the way she was written as the book series progressed just got steadily more and more insufferable to me. I was considering skipping most of it due to how many stupid decisions she makes, but if making her an unstable and unfit ruler was the intention, I think it was done pretty well.
I think it was pretty damn ballsy of her to try to just gloss over all the awful shit she was behind before suddenly deciding to President once more, and even more outrageous how the MSM was acting like a bunch of star-struck lovers when it came to her. I'm just glad the Unstumpable Trump managed to dominate and discourage her permanently after that crushing loss.
Fucking hell, Funko Pops are hideous
The Giscari are interesting in how little personality Gurm actually gives them. For a counterweight, I can kinda tell Dany's bloodriders apart despite their entire characters basically just being "Dothraki Screamer."
I literally cannot pick the Giscari characters apart. Sure, I could tell you some of their names and which actions belonged to which, but if you asked me to go into detail on their personal stories and how one differed from the other, I'd just shrug. They're not written as motivated people, they're written as conduits for events. I think Gurm thought he could substitute characterization for crazy animu hairstyles (or a lack thereof).
I'd ignore her impenetrable plot armour and let Daenerys actually die as a logical consequence of her terrible decisions instead of bending over backwards to save her.
Yes, heraldry scholars have an actual legitimate reason to make distinctions.
>user doesn't know Dany will get stabbed with lightbringer to create the actual Lightbringer
Only read the first one. Not gonna read a boring ass book about Dany in Meereen. I've already done it once. Anyway, this examination is "Tyrion is a secret Targ" tier. Martin is a serviceable novelist, but he's not weaving some subtle, secret narrative. The man's not clever enough for that. Next you're going to tell me Quaithe is Ashara Dayne or the Dany's totally going to Asshai.
Even if any of this is true, it doesn't change what the Slaver's Bay Campaign is: Dany facing off against boring, characterless people in a clear show of white (wo)man's burden. If the storyline had been ostensibly compelling these theories would be hype. They are instead anti-hype, because even if they're true, it doesn't salvage this heap. Burn it down. Move the plot.
Having her go to Illryio moves the plot, positions her tangent to the rest of the story, puts her up against identifiable characters, and continues the path she was on. Much better than an unforgivably boring sideplot that eats up the majority of her story.
Emilia Clarke is fat
Girls love them tho
I wish the actress would show her tiddies more.
well as a heraldry scholar, I have an excuse
Only British heraldry cared about it.
For any other culture dragons could be either great snakes(the actual meaning of the word "dragon") or lizard-like beings
Book Daenerys is just slightly less stupid than the show's.
girls have shit taste, they like guys after all
We get it, you have a short attention span.
meereeneseblot.wordpress.com
But we already linked it, and he read it.
Shit, my bad, user. I should have guessed.
>it's the show that converts her into the Perfect Woman.
Even in the show she's still an insane ruler worthy of her silver hair, just one that tries to do what's right for the people, surrounded by folks so jaded that they're like 'eh, better than the usual greedy narcissistical ruler'.
I don't think so. I think that we're meant to cheer for her during her YAAS QUEEN moments like burning the slavers or Tarlies (something that never happened in the books, by the way).
And most normies do cheer for her. Just not us.
Post degree or gtfo
>I think that we're meant to cheer for her during her YAAS QUEEN moments like burning the slavers or Tarlies
Yes, that's why it's treated like a completely unnecessary atrocity and Tyrion basically calls her a fucking retard for it and explains exactly what the people are going to think of a Targaryen burning her enemies alive.
If the normies are cheering for her, they're wrong. She's going to take it too far because she's bloodthirsty, and while she'll be instrumental in defeating the Night King, Sansa will ultimately claim the Iron Throne. I'm not even kidding.
All I know is we're not getting Clegane bowl after all and I'm pissed
Jon will Marry Sansa, who isn't even his real sister, and take the throne
I have normie girl friends. I can confirm they love the shit out of khaleesi and think she's top bitch
...
Jon should marry a dragon, that way Khaleesi will be his mother-in-law and unite the warring races of dragon and man.
>we
>us
Fuck off. You ain't the Lorax, and you don't speak for the Veeky Forumss.
Or what, you're gonna cry?
>Be retarded
>Keep acting retarded
Like pottery
>Be autistic
>Screech in powerless rage