/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>You have no idea what edgy means, do you?

Edgy has many facets. There is the 90s EXTREME EDGY and there is also the edgy of "everything sucks, i am mature and smart because i know that" kind like the South park goths but played straight.

Awakening is the latter.

> It's kinda the same principle with Solars. "I can do this, why shouldn't I?"
So hubris aside (that is mostly the realm of players not the setting) can i make mage setting less about jerks being jerk while sometimes fighting bigger cartoonishly evil jerks?

What if my player dont abuse their powers? Thus rendering the whole theme moot. Using your example
"I can do this, why shouldn't I?" and their answer is "Because its wrong, and i am not a sociopah/I seen enough fiction to know this will bite me in the ass for narrative reasons"

Mage isn't a happy setting.
The people in it, aren't necessarily happy people

And when you, a Mage, with tons of power and knowledge of the true nature of reality have to brush up against blind fucking sleepers who think their inane garbage matters and who think they have a right to tell you what to fucking do when you've been to the fucking Supernal realms and awakened to Cosmic Motherfucking Truth?
And then, they have the GALL to get in your fucking way when you're trying to achieve something that their pathetic weak little blind lives will likely never even come close to comprehending.
When there's literally no way to try and tell them what you're trying to achieve, because they literally cannot understand what you're telling them, and any evidence you show them will burn their very sanity, and fuck up your Magic?

I imagine you might look like an asshole as well.

>"I can do this, why shouldn't I?" and their answer is "Because its wrong, and i am not a sociopah/I seen enough fiction to know this will bite me in the ass for narrative reasons
Congratulations, that is literally Hubris vs Wisdom. Not doing all the crazy fucked up shit you know you can do because you have the presence of mind to know that it's a) wrong, and b) stupid. The

>Then the World of Darkness may just not be for you, and I mean that seriously. Not wanting to play assholes is understandable, the rest not so much. WOD and CofD are not happy places and were never meant to be, it's in the name and everything. A different game more suited to your tastes might just be your best bet.

We played ascension and Apocalypse just fine. Both have organizations that while flawed, retrograde and rotten had good intentions or at least good statements when they started.

I would say the same for Forsaken but.....tribe is pretty much meaningless so its a moot point.

I could grab their core ideologies and see something salvageable from most of their organizations.

Awakening however, even from the get go their goal and the way the setting is sold it seems mage are just selfish pricks just looking for more power and little else.

I mean i love the Technocracy because while an enemy corrupt organization. It had good people in it who had good intentions. Maybe their extremes taken in the wrong way. Awakening though? There i cant really buy for what i read on the core and order book that there are good people in the orders. Just self serving assholes.

>Congratulations, that is literally Hubris vs Wisdom. Not doing all the crazy fucked up shit you know you can do because you have the presence of mind to know that it's a) wrong, and b) stupid.

But in the case of me and my players there is an Hubris Vs Wisdom. From moment 0 is "Wisdom won"

>And when you, a Mage, with tons of power and knowledge of the true nature of reality have to brush up against blind fucking sleepers who think their inane garbage matters and who think they have a right to tell you what to fucking do when you've been to the fucking Supernal realms and awakened to Cosmic Motherfucking Truth?

See here is where me and my players diverge, we dont make characters who think that way. Their "inane garbage" matter to us too. Mages are just humans who happen to have magic. Playing it like aliens looking at an inferior species is not something i am interested in doing. And kind of wanna move the setting (for my games) away from that.

>Free Council
>Dirty money muggle lovers

>Because it's wrong, and i am not a sociopath
>The Wise should never feel constrained by the blind and pathetic purported moral standard of the human insects

>The only thing worse than an Awakened deferring to the unenlightening Sleeper rabble is suffering a leech to live, but that's another topic entirely,,,

>But in the case of me and my players there *isnt an Hubris Vs Wisdom. From moment 0 is "Wisdom won"

>"everything sucks, i am mature and smart because i know that"
That's called cynicism. Changing the meaning of words because you do not know the proper ones is not ok.

>"I can do this, why shouldn't I?" and their answer is "Because its wrong, and i am not a sociopah/I seen enough fiction to know this will bite me in the ass for narrative reasons"
Like said, that's one way to look at the conflict. But what if being a "sociopath" is the "wise" answer? Say, you have the chance to heal a severely wounded child right then and there, in front of their parents. It'd be relatively easy, and obviously a good thing to do, right? So, if you can do it, why wouldn't you do it?

>Mages are just humans who happen to have magic
Nope.
Mages are obsessive freaks who awoke to a higher level of reality.

The vast majority of the people on the planet would never Awaken.

>Or you could just take "all Mages are assholes" to be a simplification of the fact that they're solidly in a morally grey area and many of them are willing to do fucked up shit to further their own agendas, even if they're nice and have noble beliefs and goals.
Dave's posts have always giving me the impression that that's what he was going for. He can't speak for every single one of our games and every single facet of lore interpreted by fans, but his views seem to have always been that Mages, as a whole, are not some superheroing force going out there do-gooding and fighting for the little guys. They're all people fundamentally changed from an experience shared by no other and each possessing certain traits that were reinforced by said experience. On top of that, they were given access to ridiculously bullshit powers and this has gone to many of their heads(as we ALL know it would) and has lead to bad shit inevitably happening.

Mage, as a game should deal with collateral damage, and no matter how sorry the one responsible for a fucked up accident is, the smoking wrecks are still in the background and trying to fix things may look a lot like, and even end up being the same as, hurting.

Mage's themes have always been the hardest to grasp...

>But in the case of me and my players there is an Hubris Vs Wisdom. From moment 0 is "Wisdom won"
Sounds like you and your players are not very good at roleplaying.

>Mage's themes have always been the hardest to grasp...

For those having difficulty with the nuance and complexity of Mage's themes, I generally recommend they try Werewolf.

Claw, claw, claw, bite, claw, awooooo, is a lot simpler and easier to understand.

>That's called cynicism. Changing the meaning of words because you do not know the proper ones is not ok.

Is the tone the game and its author uses. I am a cynic but i dont act all smug about it, making blanket statements about how "its always like this because is more real".

>Like said, that's one way to look at the conflict. But what if being a "sociopath" is the "wise" answer? Say, you have the chance to heal a severely wounded child right then and there, in front of their parents. It'd be relatively easy, and obviously a good thing to do, right?

So i wont get help here to homebrewing the setting to my liking arent i?

>So, if you can do it, why wouldn't you do it?
Because
>I seen enough fiction to know this will bite me in the ass for narrative reasons"
Also:
If i do it in front of the parent they get mad (literally) from quintessence. Or the DM would use it as "monkey paw" moment to fuck it in some way.

Again i am not interested in making the theme of hubris "work" but in making mage factions more likable on a local level.

>Mages are just humans who happen to have magic.
That's called a sleepwalking sorcerer/psychic/whathaveyou. Those are just humans who happen to have magic or psychic powers. Mages are something else, have experienced something else and have had their views of the world *fundamentally altered* by it. They aren't the same as everyone else but with added light shows. Hell, they aren't even the same as their pre-awakening selves.

>Mages, as a whole, are not some superheroing force going out there do-gooding and fighting for the little guys.

Okay how do i make them that? On a lower scale?

>Mage's themes have always been the hardest to grasp...

Oh i grasp them, i just dont like them.

I have to question how much of the book you've actually read. Wisdom isn't straight morality, for starters, and Hubris isn't just being evil. You can fall in Wisdom for doing something even if you're totally pure of heart. Light a candle with Forces at Wisdom 10, whoops, Act of Hubris.

Mages also aren't ALL self-serving, power hungry bastards. The sections on the Orders details what they believe in (tip, not a single one of them, not even the Seers, just believes in MORE POWer) and what happens to their members when they fall to Hubris.

Mages operate in a grey area at best, even if they have morals and are good people who want to help. Being a dark, grim game in a dark, grim setting, chances to do genuine, uncomplicated good that has no consequences are few and far between unless your character works at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays and uses Matter magic to make the food taste better.

And even then your ST might have your enemies destroy the soup kitchen just to make a point.

>Okay how do i make them that? On a lower scale?

Phone ate my post, it should read "Okay, how do i make the organizations more like that (not all the way, superheroes) but something i could see someone actually thinking that this arent a bunch of selfish sociopaths. On a lower scale?

>Heck, in the CofD, you don't even want to ask what's in the soup,

Nobody is going to point a gun at your head and tell you that you have to play a sociopath. I don't understand what in the book gave you this impression. All characters literally start with Understanding Wisdom.

>unless your character works at a soup kitchen on Wednesdays and uses Matter magic to make the food taste better.

That was actually my last werewolf character.

>Mages also aren't ALL self-serving, power hungry bastards. The sections on the Orders details what they believe in (tip, not a single one of them, not even the Seers, just believes in MORE POWer) and what happens to their members when they fall to Hubris.

It isnt stated directly but most of what they believe in is self serving as it is related to what their consider whats magical and how to improve themselves both spiritually and magically.

In 1st editions they had a more "altruistic goal" being defeating the Exarchs and bringing down the lie (though their methods varied) but that such as high concept and scale goal as to be meaningless unless i am gonna run a globetrotting epic game. Which i wont.

But it leaves me hanging on what to do on a local game with the day to day of the orders. Like "unless it is something magical or its gonna affect the state at minimum, we dont care."

Why would an wide eye idealist, borrowing a term from D&D, legal good PC. Would join the orders for?

Here's something I use remind me and nail home the fact that Mages would have vastly different outlooks and priorities from sleepers. Not the one that wrote it.

>Initiate
Fate
All Acanthus Can Detect Sympathetic connections of people or places she can see, see the marks of fate, identify those who have violated oaths or geasae, and detect spells with Conditional Durations. (Interconnections).
All Acanthus Can Can know when a specific fate befalls the subject of the spell.
All Acanthus Can Negate environmental penalties on actions, and "Aim" to give bonus to instant actions. (Quantum flux)
All Acanthus Can Give a small blessing or curse, with limited control over it's outcome. (REading the Outermost Eddies)
All Acanthus Can Gain an omen that will guide her closer to her goal (Serendipity).

Time
All Acanthus Can ...
All Acanthus Can Gain generalized knowledge of likely futures. (Divination)
All Acanthus Can Cause cause a person to encounter more or less delays- the elevator arrives when they need it, or the
lights are all red. (Green Light/Red Light).
All Acanthus Can See if a person will be good or bad for her in the future. (Momentary Flux).
All Acanthus Can Know exactly when to act, adding potency to mundane instant actions (Perfect Timing.)
All Acanthus Can Look into the relatively recent past (Postcognition).

With Mage sight, Reveal the presence and Use of a destiny, and detect dramatic failures and exceptional successes. They can
also know when a character is about to act and is ablle to pre-empt it, an and detect time travelers.

> I don't understand what in the book gave you this impression.

The self serving ideologies of the orders. How everything revolves only around gathering more mysteries.

How cartoonishly evil the main antagonist are.

The author annoying edgelord persona when he talks about how mage is suppose to be.

>Why would an wide eye idealist, borrowing a term from D&D, legal good PC. Would join the orders for?
By RAW:

>Mysterium
Learn more about magic and preserve it for future generations. Respects magic and treats it as more than a means to an end.
>Silver Ladder
Wants to free humanity of the Lie and lead an Awakened Nation to greatness, eventually even storming the Supernal and casting down the Tyrannical Exarchs.
>Adamantine Arrow
Believes in servitude (read: helping people, like a knight or some shit, oaths and all) and self-improvement through conflict of any kind.
>Guardians of the Veil
Wants to protect magic and the Awakened from anything dangerous, but also a willingness to do whatever is necessary, so that others don't have to.
>Free Council
You don't like what those old Diamond Orders are selling, and you believe you can take magic further and you can discover more of it in Sleeper culture, because Humanity is Magical.

To be brief.

>Mages would have vastly different outlooks and priorities from sleepers.

This stroke a cord in me, I think, i also know why i never have had problems with OWoD games and i do now with Chrod (mage in this case). I never buy into the notion of different outlooks.

In OWoD the pressure to be a monster was always external (the society around you). Say the Garou nation or the Traditions forced their ideals on you (the pc) but you (the pc) had complete autonomy of your mind. Nothing in the game tell you "you think/feel different now" just a "you have powers now, what do?"

In Chrod (mage in this case) the pressure seems to be internal. "you think different now" which i find i cant relate to nor do i find it compelling. I dont like the idea of the game telling me, my character must feel or think in a certain way always.

You don't want to play in the world of darkness and that's fine. Best of luck on finding a game that better suits your tastes.

Okay thats a very 1st edition outlook to it and i kinda can get behind it but that still leaves

>But it leaves me hanging on what to do on a local game with the day to day of the orders. Like "unless it is something magical or its gonna affect the state at minimum, we dont care."

It's not a first edition outlook. I've never read the first edition core, and I've only read the Mysterium Order book cover to cover. Working on Silver Ladder.

The bulk of what I said is 2e core.

>>But it leaves me hanging on what to do on a local game with the day to day of the orders. Like "unless it is something magical or its gonna affect the state at minimum, we dont care."
What do you want the priorities of Mages to be, exactly? You're leaving me confused.

>You don't want to play in the world of darkness and that's fine. Best of luck on finding a game that better suits your tastes

See the problem is that isnt really the world of darkness. Is the World of edgelords. For darkness to have weight there has to be a contrast with light. There is no such thing with mage for what i read. There is just darkness in different shades and that makes it meaningless.

Kudos to Dave because he made is as meaningless as the 90s comics he likes. Kinda sucks he had to make mage even worse setting wise that it was in 1st.

user clearly wants superheros.

The world is a shithole.
Escape it.
The Supernal awaits.

You're going to be thinking differently because of what's going to be presented to you and because of what you learn and experience. Not because anyone is going to force you. Mages literally perceive the world differently, and that's what sets them apart. This was in the intro to 2e, and a recurring theme throughout the core. As this goes on I'm less and less sure that you've actually read it.

Geist 2e when

Can I still have my Onryo ghost partner

Tuen in next week to find out

>What do you want the priorities of Mages to be, exactly? You're leaving me confused.

I am thinking on a campaign on a city, no globle throtting adventure. Just a city (or a region at most). Before anyone said "buuuuu space" lets assume a gentleman agreement that the PCs wont just teleport to Japan.

So i got a couple of mysteries that the orders debate possession of. I got that covered (even though i am not sold on the idea of concilium formed just because there is mystery and more on the "consilium forms because mages are around").

But them i draw blanks on what the orders and the seers do day to day as factions when the main mysteries arent the focus. Like, their goals seems too big and massive to have a day-to-day.

Seers: Misery and oppression. Constant war, big brother watching us, religious war and zelotry. How the fuck do i run a plot with the seers in an american city without changing the whole city? It seems to big scale.

Same with the Ladders: "Wants to free humanity of the Lie and lead an Awakened Nation to greatness, eventually even storming the Supernal and casting down the Tyrannical Exarchs."

How the fuck the day to day, small scale of that works? on the sleeper side? What change can the Ladder do that wont change the whole status quo?

In both Werewolves games. Cleaning a street on the spiritual side was something they players could do, followed their faction mission statement but wouldn drastically change the whole city status quo (kind of a self contained adventure).

In mage i cant find the equivalent of. its not even the power level, is just that the orders agendas are either too big or too esoteric.

>For darkness to have weight there has to be a contrast with light
The light of it is there, believe or not. Mages can experience crazy cool and wonderful things, magic is fun and useful, you'll have adventures, you can carry out your Aspirations (which don't have to be evil, there's no rule saying that they have to be) or your Obsessions (which also don't have to be evil or all-consuming, they only become consuming when you fall to very low Wisdom) or you can even help people, which believe it or not is something Mages can do and often have in mind when carrying out the ethos of their Orders. Catch that nasty Tremere because he's eating souls, find out why all the rats are swarming people and chewing drunks to death in the middle of the night, take on apprentices and pass on your wisdom, etc.

So
Vampire werewolf mage and beast already have night horrors
Promethean and demon are in the works
Think changeling/hunter are going to get ones or do autumn nightmares and the other hunter books already count?

>You're going to be thinking differently because of what's going to be presented to you and because of what you learn and experience. Not because anyone is going to force you. Mages literally perceive the world differently, and that's what sets them apart. This was in the intro to 2e, and a recurring theme throughout the core. As this goes on I'm less and less sure that you've actually read it.

Okay please stop assuming i havent read the 2e core. What i said is that i dont buy into that notion.

"oh mage sight shows me another plane of existance, i cant reach now and cant live in" so its not really important beyond the excuse why i cast magic. I dont buy into the alien outlook as much.

In the words of my last ascension characters. "i dont care about the ascension war because, we have to live in the reality we live and thats that. We help were we can with the powers we have but changing the building blocks of reality seems dangerous and with too many things that could go wrong to even try.

I am no better than the baker around the street just because i can shoot lighting from my fingers of change destiny. I just a normal dude who happens to have powers."

Normal dudes who happen to have powers is how i wanna change the setting to. Not alien-viewpoints of "oh i can see such and such so i think differently"

Baring homebrew and gentlemen's agreement, organised Mages are in no way hampered by distance. That's why conciliums form around mysteries and mostly to make sure nukes don't start flying every which way at the first temper tantrum.

Also, there's more Mysteries out there than just the largest one that's attracted a lot of Mages. Many smaller ones likely dot the city and surroundings and should more than keep them busy when not pretending to be 'normal' or furthering their Order's agenda.

In my experience Mage games become much broader in scope than what can realistically be contained within a single city or Consilium within a couple months of play if you play with a consistent group.

It's something I hope Dave will cover in the future perhaps in 'tome of the pentacle'.

Assuming Swedracula doesn't drive the company any farther into the shitter before then.

>I am no better than the baker around the street just because I have billions of dollars and can change the course of nations. I'm just a normal dude who happens to have billions of dollars and can change the course of nations."

I find this viewpoint ridiculous.

>Many smaller ones likely dot the city and surroundings and should more than keep them busy when not pretending to be 'normal' or furthering their Order's agenda.

Okay so orders day to day is either:

A) Global earth shattering agenda.
B) Investigating minor mysteries.
C) Masturbating until A and B appears.

There is no small projects? Is either big adventure that encompass the continent. Mysteries or nothing else?

Changeling has Night Horrors: Grim Fears.
Hunter lacks a "proper" Night Horrors but you could scrap one from the Horror Recognition Guide and the little bits of statted antagonists from every other hunter splat book.

It's not an alien viewpoint, you tard. You literally just see all the stuff Sleepers can't, and you learn what they can't. Archmages are closer to what you're talking about, with their super alien viewpoints.

Yeah thats what I was thinking, hunter doesn't really need it given that you're expected to slap together things using dread powers. Hell even the 'offical' splats have dread powers instead of whatever they normally have. First I've heard of changeling though, so nice. And I'm gonna wager that mummy, giest, and devient will all get their own in time.
I really like these sort of bestiary books, helps me flesh stuff out with more weirdness

>Masturbating until A and B appears.

A mage has lots to do between mysteries. The lab and vivisection tools aren't going to clean themselves.

And if you do become a little bored, you could always incinerate an uppity vampire or three to remind them of the supernatural pecking order.

>I am no better than the baker around the street just because I have billions of dollars and can change the course of nations (Which i wont do so its a moot point). I'm just a normal dude who happens to have billions of dollars and can change the course of nations (which i wont do so its a moot point)
>I find this viewpoint ridiculous

It worked in ascension. How can i make it work in Awakening? What setting element i have to remove/change to make it work?

In ascension it was combination of "the ascension war was lost and nobody cared anymore", the traditions were RL-ish magical practices so the rank and files wasnt as hubristic. There was an idea of a duty beyond the magic.

Yeah, I like all Night Horrors books a lot. In my opinion they're all pretty fun and good reads, right up there with Slasher.

>A mage has lots to do between mysteries. The lab and vivisection tools aren't going to clean themselves.

I mean more on the faction side of things. What could the day to day of the Silver Ladder be that wont immediately change the whole city?

or the Seers? Specially the seers because they range from meaningless to change the setting in such a big way to change the genre.

Like their order book seems to paint their agenda from "oh they made the police slightly more racist" to "they instate a 1984 dystopia" with little inbetween.

>It's not an alien viewpoint, you tard. You literally just see all the stuff Sleepers can't, and you learn what they can't.

But you assume that because of that they would think of sleepers as inferior beings. I am saying "yeah i dont buy that or at least i have 0 interest in potraying it that way, i dont and will never find that compelling"

I am more interested in potraying mages as people who happen to be able to cast a fireball. Kinda like Dresden Files, just you know without the shitty system of Fate.

1. Consilia do gather where Mages are. It's just that Mages tend to be drawn to where stuff is going down. Which can be wherever you want. Or everywhere. The setting is full of weird stuff.

2. The Orders do have a day-to-day, but Mages don't tend to be all that involved with it unless they're in a leadership position. Miscellaneous work is handled by Sleepwalker Retainers, or Proximi. There's day-to-day stuff you could have your players do in the Consilium, like being a Herald or a Sentinel. In general, they do their own business. Mystagogues pursue research either in the lab or in the field, the Free Council experiments, the Guardians spy on people and run the Labyrinth, the Seers engage in political manipulations, the Silver Ladder actually runs the Consilium, etc. Or a Silver Ladder character could run a spiritual halfway house or something, helping Sleepers at rock bottom out of destitution and trying to open their minds to the possibility of magic by subtly using their own magic.

3. Mages could clean a street on the spiritual side too. Or do something in the Astral, or the Underworld, or whatever you come up with. Side adventures can also take the form of tasks handed down by the Consilium, which happens. Doesn't have to be a big thing.

Don't Mages basically get super autism after awakening?

>But you assume that because of that they would think of sleepers as inferior beings
No I'm not. Mages are fundamentally human, don't let anyone tell you otherwise since it's something that Dave himself has confirmed. Sleeper bigotry is what happens when you lose Wisdom. It's not the bog standard for all Mages.

>2. The Orders do have a day-to-day, but Mages don't tend to be all that involved with it unless they're in a leadership position. Miscellaneous work is handled by Sleepwalker Retainers, or Proximi. There's day-to-day stuff you could have your players do in the Consilium, like being a Herald or a Sentinel. In general, they do their own business. Mystagogues pursue research either in the lab or in the field, the Free Council experiments, the Guardians spy on people and run the Labyrinth, the Seers engage in political manipulations, the Silver Ladder actually runs the Consilium, etc. Or a Silver Ladder character could run a spiritual halfway house or something, helping Sleepers at rock bottom out of destitution and trying to open their minds to the possibility of magic by subtly using their own magic.

I am interested in those. Like i wanna introduce players slowly to the orders/mage society. I dont wanna run the "change the whole course of the city goverment in session 4. Specially because they gonna be in arcanum 2 for a long while.

What kind of experiments can the free council do? Considering there is a big change between 1st and 2nd edition version of them.

You need super-autism to Awaken in the first place.

>What kind of experiments can the free council do?
Innovate with magic. Test the boundaries of an Arcanum by making up new spells in Creative Thaum. Make new kinds of imbued items, etc. Also, why are your players going to be in at Arcana 2 for a long while when by RAW you can start as a Disciple? Are you just going to say they can't do that, or that they don't get six dots to spend at character creation, or what?

Just play Hunter. The setting is still dark but you can be the heroes that'll change that.

>How/When did you get into playing WoD
Literally never played the tabletop. Got Bloodlines a couple of years ago when it was dirt cheap on Steam sale and heard it was great. Was just replaying it.

I ended up reading the books for Requiem and Masquerade and I like the details and writing. I was kind of already into vampires and gothic horror. I'd like to play tabletops but most of my friends don't have an interest in it.

Focus on playing an actual apprentice to a powerful master or junior member of a notable cabal. Your training or duties will involve some the magical scut work like managing cults, delivering grimoires, that could allow players to ease into the Orders and Consilium and provide a lot of plot hooks.

>Specially because they gonna be in arcanum 2 for a long while.
I hope you don't think that's some kind of limitiation on their power.
2 dots can in Mage can frequently do more than 5 dots for other splats.

>Actual apprentice
You looked at the Mysterium book rules for playing apprentices?
Basically you remove a lot of free elements of the Mage template.
I would really suggest you look at them, and then adapt them to 2e.

>I hope you don't think that's some kind of limitiation on their power.
It is a limitation on their power. Half of your dicepool for magic is determined by your Arcanum rating, it means they get less power for free and are more reliant on yantras or ritual casting, they'll be incurring Paradox every time they want to cast a Ruling spell instantly and at sensory range, or otherwise want to go beyond their one free Reach for two dot spells. Paradox adds up, too. And if he's limiting their Arcana, he's unlikely to let them have Gnosis 3 right off the bat either, which will mean real problems with their dicepool unless they want to burn Willpower points.

Alright phone-user. Let's take a look at how morality looks like in Mage. Let's look at Khonsu as an example, the pov character from the Mysterium book's opening fiction. Khonsu is a Mysterium Censor. Believes that magic is more than a tool, believes in preserving it and keeping it out of unworthy hands, etc. I would use everyone's favorite Acanthus, Timmy, but I figure it's best to look to canon.

You could say he was a pretty principled character. He was passionate about his mission, to protect magic and keep it from falling into the wrong hands, and to keep dangerous magic safely squirreled away. Dedicated, no doubt. Lost nearly his entire Cabal but stuck to the mission, because he believed it was the right thing to do to protect people. To this end he was protecting a Sleeper author (Ken) from a cannibal cult who wanted to use him to bring an alternate, horrific timeline into reality from the Abyss. He wrote the pieces they needed without realizing it. So that's why he's being protected by this Censor, who wants to save him but also has to keep the dangerous knowledge he makes from the wrong hands.

Which is why it's implied that Khonsu kills Ken when some dumbshit Libertines are on the verge of escaping with him and taking him beyond the reach of the Mysterium, with their own noble intentions of giving information to everyone even though it would help a bunch of cannibals eat the world. Had to do it. Sucks, but that's how it goes.

Or you could go with the interpretation that Khonsu teleports out of there with Ken, saving him and sticking true to his mission. That's implied too.

>inb4 that was 1e
Khonsu is mentioned in the 2e core as a Mysterium Censor, The Eight-Fingered Man (he lost two fingers to a cannibal in the above fiction). So it's implied that the fiction is still canon. Lots of 1e fiction is. Morvran is mentioned, so is Arctos, Angrboda, Glorianna, even characters from the Boston book.

I read the modern Clan Novels, what else is good to read? Would prefer Lasombra or Antitribu shit if there are any more

My mistake. I was just talking about the actual rulebooks and whatever short stories they put in them. I do enjoy the short little scenes they write. I haven't read the clan novels, but I think they have an order to them, just glancing the back cover of the one I picked up at a thrift store.

I've only got Ravnos and I haven't gotten a chance to read it. I have so many books to read and I read so scarcely

>It is a limitation on their power
Not really early game, when your max Arcanum is otherwise fucking 3.
Plus they're likely Gnosis 1-2, their paradox pool will be tiny.
Just don't throw Withstood spells without serious prep, and you're fine.

Khonsu is also in the Mage Fiction Anthology, along with those dumbass Libertines.

It doesn't go well for the Libertines.

>It doesn't go well for the Libertines.
Well I would sure hope it doesn't.

>Mysterium4Lyfe

>Mage Fiction Anthology
The anthologies are really just the stories collected from all the books, so that's not surprising.

Khonsu's story is my favorite throughout all of the Mage books.

It was a definitely a well written one. Khonsu was a pretty colorful character, and I liked how he saw magic as an Obrimos. Definitely some good quotes. The descriptions of his spells were pretty good too, which is something I oddly look for whenever I read Mage fiction.

The Mage Fiction Anthology both collects 1e stories and includes new material. Khonsu was a fan favorite, and that's why he's a 2e signature character and has new (and old) fiction in the anthology.

Also, if you like new Mage fiction, check out Dave's story "Premeditation" in the Beast Fiction Anthology, It's a crossover story with a mage, beast and changing breed set mostly in the Astral. The mage is a powerful and competent Mastigos who epitomizes wizard douche.

all I need is Death 4 to transform to a Ghost like entity?

Obrimos aren't often notable Mage fiction characters (to say nothing of how Gloriana, Obrimos unicycle girl, was a 1e signature character). Khonsu was welcome and refreshing exception.

Shadow Flesh apparently is somehow the exception to needing the applicable subject and transformed Arcana for transformation spells (e.g., needing Life and Forces to turn into living fire).

If Dave ever produces the Mage FAQ, we might learn why Shadow Flesh can do what it does (or it may be in need of errata).

Death 3, Ghost Gate. Go into Twilight, be made of ephemera, effectively be ghost-like. For a Reach you can just jump right into Twilight, no gate needed.

Oh man is that her? Yeesh. Who approved that art anyway?

but I want all the other ghost powers like phasing and possession

Bill Bridges, the original Mage 1e developer, did an admirable job with the gameline. Nevertheless, I will never forgive him for the art and layout of Mage books.

The art was mostly abominable, and I still have headaches just thinking about reading the pale gold leaf text.

Post the exarch strip.

While in Twilight you move through walls and stuff like any ghost would. You're made of the same stuff, ephemera. To get ghost powers is template manipulation, probably.

Couldn't you mimic possession with Mind while a ghost?

Yeah but it would be purely for your own sense of enjoyment. Possession is a Mind 5 spell.

>Eyes Wide Shut

Can you magefucks please stay out of /v/

THANKS

Is there a thread going on there?

Better go check it out since you so graciously clued me in.

Vampfags hide there sometimes.

It's where most originate because of bloodlines.

To transform into a truely Ghost-like entity would be Life 4, Death 4.

Not according to the sample Death spell.

I believe Dave refuses to explain the reason, assuming it's not an error, out of pure spite and evil.

It would hardly be that simple, since you would be fucking with your Template. That's Archmaster stuff.

Could also be the final attainment for a legacy.