It's impossible to do Chaotic Evil right within a party

Probably.

Herp derp, herp derp I must be leaving the party for a brief while so that I may express my character's alignment in a safe space.

This. I love to play Evil characters, and have done all three variants of it, but I've never once betrayed the party.

Holy fuck that wall of text. It's like the retard who made that comic doesn't understand the point of a visual medium.

Any alignment can work in a party, and any alignment can be used to do good, even the evil ones.

>Being this unaware of IRL examples of serial killers who've done similar things keeping their CE shit hidden from their friends/family/coworkers

I'd love to see what your "true CE" or oh so original ideas are for how CE should be portrayed by a PC

>as proof, literally the worst main character on the show, who only doesn't suffer for his bullshit because of author fiat
Wow you got me.

Love playing LE. Playing CE is challenging. I tend to think the perfect workable example of a CE char is Rick Sanchez.

Before the pickle memers come or the "to be fair" guys, Rick is objectively CN

I actually really like this idea, user. It definitely comes off as a bit of a cop-out though, despite it being how real life chaotic evil people act (with high INT anyway).

My default assumption for "CE in the party" has always been someone like Ladd Russo from Baccano. Violent maniac though he is, his actions aren't entirely random. He enjoys hurting people, but he enjoys hurting the ones that don't think anything bad can happen to them the most. This leads him to blow off the head of someone that by all appearances is just a unusually intelligent ten year old solely because they gave no impression that they were in any danger from him. When he tries to hijack a train at the same time as a terrorist organization he immediately switches focus from the terrified passengers to the terrorists because they're more his type. He also falls in love with a woman that has no will to live at all, to point of throwing himself off the train and willingly destroying his own arm to save her life.

Point is, he's not just doing bad for bad sake. He has a worldview, but it's a twisted one that only really makes sense to him and you can reasonably predict what he's going to do if you try and see things from his perspective. He is absolutely chaotic evil, but the type of chaotic evil that can be worked with and relied on.

The game in question didn't have alignments, but a while back, I was playing a near-future sci-fi dystopian game, where we played the plucky rebels against the evil overlord government. One guy played what was basically the 3,000 years in the future and several planets removed equivalent of a Pashtun tribesman, who hated the bad guys because they attacked his clan, not out of any ideological perspective like most of the rest of us, continually advocated for extreme measures like blowing up schools and hospitals (Show the people that the BoTM can't protect them from us and they'll stop supporting them!), and that we should have new recruits torture prisoners to get them used to violence, since most of them weren't hardened killers before joining our rebellion.

Point was, he was nasty and violent and a bad dude. And he had authority problems with anyone outside of his little tribe, and was often the sort to ignore orders, but what made the character work was that ultimately he was a coward. He knew that we could kill him if he stepped too far out of line (and it's what he would do if the situation was reversed anyway), so he kept it in check.

>it's impossible to do Chaotic Evil right within a party
Literally any alignment can work with any other if the player is willing to make a character that works.

Jayne from Firefly (less so in the movie Serenity).

There, done. That was easy.

I can never trust my players to be NE or CE responsibly in a non-evil campaign.

The few times anyone I've met has shown interest in being CE is just so they can kill random innocent people and steal/attack other party members because "it's what my character would do"

It's more of a personal problem, but most of the time when playing with someone new who wants to be CE it's usually because they want to be a more edgy CN.

Bonus points if the guy who wants to play CE always plays CN in every game

See what you're talking about is not an alignment it's a motivation, a serial killer is motivated to murder. But the fact of the matter is his alignment is CE and that personal focus just doesn't simply 'go away' for a while just because he's with a party, his alignment will influence every decision he makes and yes to the detriment of the party, however intelligent or subtle he may be in hiding his true intentions. But no herp derp, herp derp I will now murder some peasants unseen just to remind everyone how CE I am then I'll re-join you guys and tow the general alignment consensus line, that's not CE.

Sociopath.

Boom.

>his alignment will influence every decision he makes
I need pictures of laughing anime sluts for stupid comments like this

Uwot? Alignment factors should be taken in to consideration and influence player's decision making process to some extent in all contexts otherwise you're not roleplaying alignment dumbass.

your actions inform your alignment, not the other way around numbskull

>you're not roleplaying alignment dumbass
Not that user, but yeah, exactly.
You're not roleplaying alignment, you're roleplaying a character.
Alignments are descriptive not prescriptive

are you new to wordsman

I've always considered sociopath more of a lawful evil

care to elaborate?

>your actions inform your alignment
Do you move your lips while you type? You're now just spouting to sound intelligible based upon what I've already explained to you.

Actually never mind. I got it backwards, was thinking of psychopaths.

>tfw you survived numerous gang wars, shootouts & raided a maximum security prison just to kill one guy but died to a bottle & a few stomps

cmon now, you're embarrassing yourself

Though I'm not the one endorsing a 'A complete retard's guide to chaotic evil'.
Are you sure it was your 'friend' playing this character and not in fact you? Just checking.

looks like the only person who mentioned pickle rick was you.

captcha : Fatter Nord

hmmhmm
I ever said that I was that user talking about that character; you merely assumed that you utter fool

Bullshit you're butthurt that your view of CE has been ridiculed. Stop pretending.

>Jayne
>CE
He's CN. Pic related is how you do CE in a party

So you're having to constantly hide and therefor not actually play your alignment.

This is a pretty standard awnser to this problem that actually helps prove that it doesnt work.

Your alignment is a result of your character's actions, not the other way around.

Not that user, but these posts are making less sense as they go on.
It's time to stop posting.

I don't see how Riddick was CE, NE is more apt, he was a literal psychopath out for only himself with a bad habit of having a touch of altruism caused by a strict moral code of his own making. I'm failing to see the chaotic part.

Jayne isn't perfectly CE, which isn't the point of that chart.
Perfect personifications of alignments rarely play nice with others, or anyone.
But Jayne repeatedly demonstrates CE behavior and opinions.
He fits the chart nicely, especially with the quote.

Riddick is a pretty good example though, although he has a tendency to ditch the group.

Why is the idea of character alignment something we entertain at all? Is there any legitimate reason to keep maintaining this act of compartmentalization of a character's actions and limit of their freedom of choice and potential to act?

He does what he wants with no regards to anyone's rules.

>Why is the idea of character alignment something we entertain at all?
Useful as characterization shorthand.

>Is there any legitimate reason to keep maintaining this act of compartmentalization of a character's actions
Nope

>and limit of their freedom of choice and potential to act?
Nobody worth playing with does this.

When I want to play an evil character, I start with the premise that they've done something in the past that would qualify them as evil, and while they aren't aiming to repeat that deed, they also aren't seeking redemption for it. They accept what they did, embrace it, and move on to other pastures. Maybe they use the fact of their commission of said deed to gain leverage when necessary. The party doesn't necessarily have to *like* that they do this, if they do this, but at the same time there's no incentive to come to blows over words. Or maybe the party doesn't believe that they really did it.

I recognize that my way isn't necessarily the 'right' or "correct" way to do CE, but what I find is that if you shift your thinking of "an evil character" from "a state of said character actively being evil" to "a state of said character having done evil", it becomes much easier to play an evil character- of all stripes, not just CE- without coming into conflict with a party of less-than- or non-evil characters.

I feel back for the legit Rick and Morty fans, because now I suddenly feel great anger towards them even though I've never seen the show and it might actually be hilarious and clever for all I know.

"impossible to do" is different from "has never been done," so I agree

I like Rick and Morty, I just stay away from the fanbase. I dont want to be a part of the contrarion culture that hates its own fans AND the counter contrarions who hate the haters.

It's much easier to enjoy that way, if you've never seen it give it a shot. It's enjoyable absurdist humor.

It started pretty clever. By three seasons all shows deteriorate somewhat. Let's just say Rick and Morty is not aging well... and both creators are starting to mouthpiece it more and more.

The end of season 3 seemed to be a soft reboot like they may be aware of that and are trying to to reign it back in? We'll see.

>The end of season 3 seemed to be a soft reboot like they may be aware of that and are trying to to reign it back in? We'll see.

Here's hoping, friendo.

I liked R&M mostly because it parodied other shows in clever ways, especially other sci-fi shows.
But Ricks constant "nothing matters" speeches are sad & annoying instead of clever, and watching Morty get the crap kicked out of him stopped being funny too.

Also, the characters never grow in ways that matter. Morty might stand up to Rick, but it won't matter cause he's A Morty, whereas Ricks depression won't drive him to suicide because he's THE Rick. I'm not going to watch anymore next season, cause I know it doesn't matter.

>I'm not going to watch anymore next season, cause I know it doesn't matter.
Dude, nothing matters.
That's the point.

Also, I've notice a distinct change in all of the characters.
It's just subtle because of reasons I could guess at, but would be talking out of my ass.

This guy has got it right.

Every action that Rick has taken has always been for himself and to a less extent his family.
He's never cares about who he kills, he just cares if they personally pissed him off in some way.

>The few times anyone I've met has shown interest in being CE is just so they can kill random innocent people
But that's not Chaotic Evil. That's sociopath with severe delusions.

Chaotic Evil is a guy who cares not for laws, and will do whatever necessary to further his own goals.

And here is the thing: even in a fantasy society, killing random innocents will not only be an active detriment to you (you now have guards and mercenaries on your heels - how did that help further your own goals again?) It also does nothing to help you. Those random innocent people will never be better dead.

Chaotic Evil is not "kill all the time" - It is just someone who will take to killing the second that seems like the best option.

A good roleplayer can work in a CE character fine in a good/Neutral party, as long as there aren't any super Lawful Good Clerics or Paladins. Just dont play it like someone with a severe mental disorder, and there are 0 problems to be had.

Sociopath is a mental disorder. This has nothing to do with alignments.

At the same time though he never goes out of his way to fuck anyone over unless they fuck with him first

>the only reason he's still there "in the party" is because it's a contrivance of the plot often pocked at by the show itself.

Riiiiiight...

Sociopaths with delusions are CE. CE doesn’t have to be a murderhobo but It can be. CE puts its own vices first, if those vices involve killing civies then they’re going to killing civilians without a care for the concequences.

Guys from South Park have too much solo play to be a valid rpg party

Their portrayal in the games, then? They were pretty different between Stick and Fractured, though.

Or unless they have something he wants.

>Cartman

The whole point of Cartman is that he's an unlikable asshole who his friends are just stuck with. In reality, no one would be willing to spend more than five minutes around someone like him unless circumstances dictated that they absolutely had to.

>Cares about his family, sometimes
>genocides AN ENTIRE UNIVERSE to kill a guy trying to kill him because he was using that person's universe to power his car

I'm going to say Rick is definitely evil. He can and will kill off billions upon billions of sapient lifeforms if it means he doesn't have to go down to petrol stations.

Hey fatass, while you are jerking off in your basement all alone & friendless wearing your fursuit I'm out pimping your mom.

>CE
>22 +6 STR half orc warrior Chad thunder cock
>Party ask for reward in advance every quest
>They give me 100% extra looting to not fuck up
Feels good man

>safe space
youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U

Honestly at the end of Fractured But Whole the player character should just fart him to death for the shit he pulled.

Why do people assume Chaotic Evil means you MUST be a constant murdering psycho or evil mercanary killer without any kind of attachment? It's fucking stupid.

Imagine the dumb alpha bitch teenager cheerleader captain in a high school horror game. She cheats on her tests and flirts with nerds just t0 get homework, pokes holes in condoms to get girls she doesn't like pregnant, and will so anything to stay with Chad. She is 100% Chaotic Evil.

There is absolutely zero reason this bitch would be unable or unwilling to work with the other stereotypes in this horror game to survive the werewolf attack.

Applying D&D alignments to anything but D&D is stupid, because they are entirely retarded and don't work in any setting without such contrivances to actions.

>CE
>I'm going to say Rick is definitely evil.
Nah, the other user had it right.
CN if anything.

tldr for pic related: Morality cannot survive contact with infinite multiverse realities.

A lot of sociopaths are very firm on their morals, they just don't have the same set as everyone else. If you're going for the definition of CE as being actively hostile to the ideals of good, even that can still work in a party.

LG is a lot harder for me to do than CE.

There's a stark difference between not solving everyones problems and actively causing them for your own petty benefit.

Hell saving a single life is making a change however small.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone play a CE that isn't a serial killer or who doesn't actively enjoy killing people.

Riddick actively spurns civilization. He's an animal and embraces that fact.

...

This can just be NE. Everything is logically reasoned but in a totally selfish way.

Sociopaths are likely to be CE, but Chaotic Evil is not likely to be Sociopaths.

One is a mental derangement that can potentially cause CE behaviour, the other is a worldview and a box you get put into by the Gods of the world, based on your actions. A real chaotic evil character is not deranged into being it, he is inherently a super self centered person, who always works to further his own goals, and never makes real and impactful sacrifices for others.

Note that this means he could very well fund an orphanage without being good, or even neutral. The children might live happily and be ensured a great future separable from any plans the CE guy has. But marketing is a very real thing, and establishing a good image is essential for a Chaotic Evil character to get away with doing what he wants. The most powerful defense you can ever have, is the public majority thinking "This can't can't possibly have done these evil deeds he is being accused of". That can very well be chaotic.

Case scenario: Someone wants to remove all inns to avoid adventurers from coming to the town. He isnt lawful, his plan is to just kill any innskeepers and burn down their inns.

But if he does that, people will be looking for the culprit. So in order to not get too much attention, he puts some funds into an orphanage. He has a fortune from adventuring, so this is just cash change to him- he could live comfortably for the rest of his life if he got 100 times older than humanly possible. Gold is worthless to him.

So he spends a lot of that gold - gold he doesn't need - on building a good image. During this time, burns down these inns and leaves no survivors. He is getting his way, while also being protected as the golden boy of the town, because nobles are happy about no longer having all these shitty kids pickpocketing on the streets, and the common roll view him as a good person.

Cartman and Randy are the worst characters of the show by this point.

I once had a CE goul that mostly worked. He was only really interested in getting more things to eat, and had to stay up of society

Does it work if the whole party is CE?

This argument is bullshit. It's a shallow view that tries to excuse his behaviour.

You do what good you can, where you can. He could do a lot of good, but he doesn't, he does evil. And what good he does, he does it out of spite or by accident.

Yes there are infinite worlds, yes it's bigger than one person, but so is the Earth to the regular person. Doesn't mean everyone should go around acting like fucking Rick. Because the Earth is to most people as the infinite universes are to Rick.

>it's impossible to do Chaotic Evil right within a party
Yes it is because, Chaotic evil goes against all the basics that keeps a party together.

Cartman is not Chaotic evil by the way he is chaotic neutral, wit ha slight neutral evil streak.

Maybe an earlier Cartman but later on he is evil and self-serving is shit, he is literally incapable of understanding that super heroism is to fight for the best of others instead of only working for his own personal satisfaction.

youtube.com/watch?v=FN7e0EU8X88

The entire second half of Fractured But Whole is caused entirely by Cartman refusing to accept not being the main character of their superhero movie franchise and having the team named after himself (& friends, specifically he also gets pissed off when his franchsie concept is ever referred to as The Coon Friends even though it still references him most of all).
Though it turns out he was behind all the strife of the town in the first place even before that

He destroys his friends happiness and hard work out of spite and gets countless people killed.
He is a Chaotic Evil THAT GUY personified.

>your own petty benefit
Literally everything is petty when infinite parallel realities are on the table.
In one, single reality, the moral effect of your life on reality, in the grand scheme of things, is unimaginably miniscule.
It's still possible to hammer out some manner of manageable system of morality, probably.

Across the scope of infinite realities, it's literally nothing.
Literally nothing matters.
Trying to exert some attempt to fit infinity under your moral umbrella is an exercise in futility.

Tip elsewhere.
This isn't moral relativism.
This is just math.

Passing judgment on someone for destroying a universe located entirely within another universe that they CREATED seems to lack perspective as well.

That already applies to humanity in real life, in a single nigh-infinite universe the entire existence of our world and civilization is meaningless.

Doesn't give you an excuse to be an edgy cunt mate.

>This argument is bullshit.
No, it is not.

>It's a shallow view
No, it really is not.

>that tries to excuse his behaviour
No, it doesn't excuse anything.
It just expresses that framing what Rick does in terms of "Good" and "Evil" is meaningless.

>You do what good you can, where you can. He could do a lot of good, but he doesn't, he does evil. And what good he does, he does it out of spite or by accident.
He doesn't do good things.
He doesn't do evil things.
He does meaningless things that don't matter.
He could destroy Earths all day and it wouldn't matter as there would be infinite more.
He could save Earths all day too and it also wouldn't matter for the same reason.
When you have access to infinite realities, morality no longer has any bearing whether or not you do what you do.
Nothing you do matters or ever will matter.

It's the difference between a fish being meaningless in the entire ocean and a grain of sand being meaningless in the entire cosmos.

Also, when was I an edgy cunt?

Jesus Christ Rick & Morty fans are the worst.
A bunch of SU tards on tumblr go all BLACK LIVES MATTER over an extremist member of the old Crystal Gems broken by the horrors of war being shown as negative, but at least they don't pretend to be high brow while swarming McDonalds and hooting like retards over some memesauce.

>I'm CN

t. CE

Did you miss the bit where he tricked a farmer into killing a teenager's parents so he could grind them up into chili and trick said teen into eating it and then reveal it to them all so he would break down into tears just as the youth's favourite band were arriving so they would call him a pussy all because this young man had scammed him out of a minor amount of money?

Its like his signature scene that people so often refer to it becomes pointlessly annoying now.

Okay, that's typically a fair response, I'll grant you that.

The D&D alignment table was the worst abomination ever inflicted upon mankind, it has irreparably warped tabletop gaming forever.