/HHG/ Horus Heresy General

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Ave Dominus Nox!

Second for the Third

Which legion has the best colour scheme?

Pic not necessarily related.

Death Guard. I dislike bright colours like purple, red, blue, and green. I always prefer that actual rigid armour be painted a metallic colour or some shade of grey (including black and white). Pauldrons I don't mind since they are like shields for space marines where they show off their heraldry.

Emprah Kids, Dark Angels.

Why do people persist with a dead game?

Why do people persist with shitposting in a thread for a game they hate?

>asking a question based entirely on individual interpretation
Do you want faction shitposting? Because that's how you get faction shitposting
Though I'm personally fond of Salamanders, Emperor's Children, and World Eaters schemes

Is /hhg/ more alive?
Previous general reached bump limit after 2 days.

Nah, it's an animated corpse at this stage, made to dance for the pleasure of certain anons.

I've got a lore question: what happened to the Thousand Sons' geneseed stores?
I'm not talking about the stuff they kept on Prospero, since that almost certainly got destroyed or captured by Russ and Co. But they have to have had at least a bit stored before the Rubric was cast.
To phrase the question another way, what was the TS recruitment ability Post-Rubric?

They probably had some on ships, maybe, or garrison worlds. And of course each Sorceror has two they can harvest every once in a while or when they die. And I'm sure somewhere along the line somebody tried paying ol' Bill to try and cook up some more.

Overall, not a lot. They probably save the TS stuff for psychically potent recruits and then give their Mark of Tzeentch twenty-man-blobs the shit they raid from the wolves or whatever.

Goddamn the TSons have some sexy models.

As for you question its important to remember that TSons numbers makes no sense because they've been retconned too many times by too many hack authors.

How about pre-rubric. Anyone want to explain to me how they rock up to Terra with 10k+ marines?

That is likely whatever remained of Ahriman's own forces, plus a few companies that were assigned elsewhere in the galaxy at the time of Prospero. The Heresy itself wasn't exactly long enough for them to do any great amount of recovery in terms of new recruits.

The siege was 9 years after Prospero. Thats actually plenty of time to get some recruiting in.

Question. If I get the strategic WL trait that lets me infiltrate the Warlord + 3 units, the warlord can't join a fourth unit and grant them infiltrate right? Or can he? I remember this being debated about with multiple FAQs but don't recall what it was at the end of 7th.

They can recruit as much as they like, but when progenoid glands can only be retrieved for processing once every 5 and 10 years (throat and chest glands respectively), unless they happened to have a back-up cache their ability to replace losses would be very limited. Not to say that they probably didn't here and there when they could, but I think the majority of their remaining numbers would've been from surviving great companies that happened to not be there in the first place. Especially when they were bound to take further casualties during the Heresy, unless they literally did not participate at all.

On top of that, didn't Tzeentch's fuckery start to come back in greater frequency after Prospero?

Why is the 8th legion the best traitor legion?

>when progenoid glands can only be retrieved for processing once every 5 and 10 years (throat and chest glands respectively), unless they happened to have a back-up cache their ability to replace losses would be very limited.
Why? This is exactly how loyalist chapters have recruited since the heresy when they lost their primarchs and a direct source of geneseed.

No he cant join an additional unit, infiltrate doesn't confer from character to unit or vice versa

Crimson King has 3000 TSons show up with their Flagship the Photep on Sortarius. You'd expect that their Gloriana would have some gene-seed storage facility on board.

Night Lords, World Eaters and Iron Warriors
Not necessarily in that order

Related question. Has there been any info regarding warlord traits for the new rulebook? Are they keeping the old generic charts, redoing them, or scrapping them?

...

It's a problem because, as methods go, it's quite slow and rarely outpaces the losses a Legion normally incurs in combat. It's part of the whole reason why the Emperor's Children nearly died off before being reunited with Fulgrim. Their combat losses were exceeding what they could replace by recruitment through progenoid glands taken from live marines. Without back-up sources (as other anons have mentioned), or having more raw bodies besides those that survived Prospero (as I mentioned), unless the 1kSons stayed out of the Heresy, further battles would've bled them faster than they could recruit.

There's a reason why when a chapter in 40k takes grievous losses, they can be out of combat for decades or even centuries to recoup.

Any gene-seed they had there, plus 3000 additional marines, would certainly help recover losses.

>rarely outpaces the losses a Legion normally incurs in combat
How? You can extract them after less than a decade. Unless your marines are dying within a few years of becoming full marines (which is not the norm) you should be able to theoretically double your population every decade or so. Even assuming you don't remove the chest progenoid until death and lose 70% of them in combat that should still allow for a 130% growth rate between generations.

Even then, assuming that your average marine just lives for 2 years after becoming a full marine just stick some progenoids in some human slaves to grow and harvest. It only takes five years to get back your progenoid and ten to get an extra.

Logically speaking there is no reason space marine legions shouldn't be able to number over a million strong.

If they still had the full resources of an Astartes Homeworld backed by the Imperium, then yes, that would be enough time. But they did not. We don't know exactly what they had, but since recruitment and training occurred on Prospero, we can surmise they had significantly less recruitment capacity after losing all their shit.

They were the best legion in general since they're the only ones to realize that space marines are fucking monsters. Wars of conquest are currently defined as crimes against humanity, and the Emperor's chief combatants are child soldiers. They're recruited as children, divorced from regular human society, and turned into killing machines.
That's pretty fucked up.

The Night Lords not only realize this, but actively promote the concept in their every action.
They're the monsters the Imperium needs. First, they're needed because the Imperium operates on a Carrot or Stick system, making it lucerative to join and stay loyal and incredibly dangerous to even think about leaving. Also, by being the objectively worst, most inhuman and inhumane legion, they absorbed so much hate that forces like the Luna Wolves, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, and other "good" legions could be seen as noble, despite the monstrous things they do.

They're the best traitor legion because getting punished for that is bullshit. They're the only legion who really had a good reason to rebel. Other Primarchs had good reasons, but the NLs are the only ones who get a real pass from me. All the other legions rebelled because their primarchs rebelled.

Okay, Word Bears might also have a good reason, but they were doomed from the start.
Fuck, and Thousand Sons.

Assume you've got 1,000 marines, and every single one still has both of their progenoid glands. Assuming you have 2000 viable recruits, and all 2,000 survive the process, you'll have 3,000 combat ready marines. This is also ignoring any possible losses due to Tzeentch's 'gifts' that he was giving with greater frequency as the Heresy went on.

Now, you've got 3,000 marines and you have to wait 5 years before you can process any new ones. Now consider the average losses being incurred on a regular basis. When Legion forces lose hundreds, if not thousands of marines in individual engagements (or worse, due to losses from naval combat), imagine how many they might lose in the span of 5 years. Unless they fought incredibly conservatively, deploying only companies (or less) of troops at a time, the Thousand Sons would have had difficulty maintaining their numbers.

Now. Combine the facts that the Thousand Sons might not have had all of their progenoid glands available immediately post-Prospero, ongoing combat losses, known recruitment and survival rates for Legion recruits, and the fact that Tzeentch was actively fucking with them again after Prospero, their ability to replace losses via recruits were seriously diminished compared to larger Legions during the Heresy. OP asked how 10k Thousand Sons made it to Terra, and chances are the majority survived by virtue of not being at Prospero.

World eaters. Just for the pure irony of the color scheme.
Blue and white are calm colors. The world eaters are anything but.

Because Sevatar is the best 1st captain.

When they were first introduced into 40k, before HH was a thing. Then they were 6++ with the ability to Sweep.

In HH Book 1 they were the same as Indomitus, just generic TDA with Cataphractii being the alternative, heavy variant. Later Tartaros got the ability to Sweep but kept its 5++ save, making the Indomitus objectively the worst suit by rules.

I would get 100% behind this, is single stat for all isn't possible. FW is way too in live with their rules sometimes.

You're right except for the combat loses. TSons were involved in barely anything until the siege. They appear to have been at there when Russ got fucked but other than that its just Ahriman and crew adventuring and chilling on Prospero. Its possible for them to double their numbers in that time.

The real answer however is because the fluff says so.

IW or UM.

My patrician duderino

The answer is simple. All their novels were written by McNeil. He doesn't give a fuck about realism and he expects you not to give a fuck either. If you do give a fuck then he laughs at you and calls you a nerd.

watching things burn gives me a boner

well, Inferno also gave us this theory

...

Quality meme.

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>What can you tell us about the upcoming Horus Heresy Age of Sigmar Rulebook?
Game over man, GAME OVER

Holy shit I didn't even notice it. Thhis is so bad.

Cmon FW, be better.

Yes, it's seriously a super lazy slip.

Which legion will go the way of bretonnia, lads?

Thousand sons have no generic marines with marks. You are either a ghostly marine armor or a sorcerer.

The interview about this made me feel a lot better. They explained what they were doing, why, and in what order in a way that they had failed to since Bligh died. On a side note what color is good for highlighting vallejo's German Tank Crew? I found it makes an amazing basecoat, but I had so many marines to do that I haven't gotten past that color until now. Up next: gold, highlights and suicidal thoughts.

Emperor's CHildren are the one known to have taken European recruits I believe, so the remnants of the French, therefore Bretonnia.

"Freudian" would have been the word I'd use.

I read it as an intentional jab at 8th edition.

There are two things countering your very valid points.
TS are sorcerers, this also includes biomancy which they used for medical purposes even before the heresy.
TS don't really fight much like a "proper" legion. They don't need the same numbers most of the time. After all, it took only a handful of them to take knight world.

The importance of social media and communicating cannot be underestimated. But it's true that out of all the fb pages GW handles, the FW one is the least active imo.

All space marines are monsters, but they're not entitled to be monsters in every way
T.salamanders fag

>but they're not entitled to be monsters in every way
Why not?

I'd play that...

...

I'm okay with all of that, but I had still held out hope that they'd at least take 8th's AP system and the unification of walkers/MCs.
Alas, it was not to be.

Why is there a night lord dancing in the corner of my screen?

Is Burning of Prospero the best way to get Mk3 armour? I have no interest whatsoever in the Custodes or Sisters, but I guess those are in fairly high demand and so can be sold or traded?

Is there any market for the game itself or is it just recycle bin material?

>Is Burning of Prospero the best way to get Mk3 armour?
Kinda, If you don't need 30 or the Tartoros consider ordering the 10 man sprues off ebay.
>I have no interest whatsoever in the Custodes or Sisters, but I guess those are in fairly high demand and so can be sold or traded?
Yeah they shift pretty quick
>Is there any market for the game itself or is it just recycle bin material?
Not really, occasionally someone will buy it but its not often. dice are great though

>Is Burning of Prospero the best way to get Mk3 armour?
Yeah, basically, unless you like paying full price for the boxes individually, which amounts to at best 3/4 of the price of the full set. It depends on whether you like Tartaros terminators for your marines too.

>Custodes or Sisters, but I guess those are in fairly high demand and so can be sold or traded?
Yeah, Custodes are definitely popular, can't speak to the popularity of the sisters, but if anyone wants an army of them they'll be buying up any BOP leftovers they can rather than paying full price.

>Is there any market for the game itself or is it just recycle bin material?
It's a one-off game for the models in the box, there aren't any people looking for the rules without the models except perhaps people who've lost their own copies of the models.

It's still cheaper to buy the whole box, than three mk III squads. Resell or trade the stuff you don't want.

Thanks anons. I play Mechanicum currently, but I want some astartes because the models are cool. A shame GW didn't put Mk3 suits in Betrayal At Calth. I'm probably gonna make a veteran squad with FW bits, so I'll probably get a box of ten and then if I ever expand get BOP to bring me to 40 dudes.

Now to decide what Legion... Imperial Fists are nice, but I'm not sure I like/get their playstyle.

IW are the perfect ally for mechanicum, I'm pretty sure they are sworn brothers as well.

IH are good too.

Every legion had mechanicum support in the heresy, so any fits really.

But if you don't like their scheme, playstyle or background, don't use them.

iron hands bro.

>Imperial Fists are nice, but I'm not sure I like/get their playstyle.
What playstyle do you currently have for your mechanicum, what kind of playstyle do you want for your marines?
You could always try some sort of hammer and anvil sort of strategy with a more mobile legion being the anvil to your slow mechanicum or having a tough legion be the anvil to a mobile mechanicum force's hammer. You could use them to fulfill a specific role or just have them fight directly alongside the mechanicum as general allies.

One idea I once came up with was using blackshield chymeriae with the fluff being a magos biologis deciding to do his own tinkering with captured geneseed and creating his own super marines who are invariably unstable.

Iron Warriors are also cool, but there are at least two IW players in the group I play with. Iron Hands I think are one of the most boring Legions.

The difference between Sworn Brothers and Fellow Warriors seems a bit negligible. Useful to have but not really worth aiming for.

I'm still a bit inexperienced, but I play Cybernetica with plenty of robots, so scoring units are a problem. Thallax are a bit pricey, but Adsecularis are nice. Long range or high Strength shooting is also things I feel I don't have.

Do you like Lunawolves/sons of horus or Salamanders ?

Neutral to Sons of Horus, but I like Salamanders so I suppose they are an option.

>Long range or high Strength shooting is also things I feel I don't have.
>plays cybernetica
one of these things are wrong.
add some darklances or myrmadons, hell even thanatars

Sounds like Iron Hands would work great.
>Both groups like each other and have no problems working together fluffwise
>Iron Hands work well with vehicles meaning dedicated transport and getting to objectives quickly
>Iron Hands treat all shooting against them as -1 strength (essentially infantry flare shields) which means your troops won't die from shooting any time soon
>Iron Hands characters can take cyber familiars allowing you to use a praetor as a somewhat scary distraction unit (7 power fist attacks on the charge while having a 3++)

If you prefer the fluff or aesthetics of another legion you can make any legion work since they all have the same core army but if you did choose Iron Hands my suggestion for the basics of your army would be.
>Centurion, consul, praetor, or iron father HQ your choice
>Escort for your commander (small terminator squad, maybe vets, or throw him in with a tactical squad)
>two 10 man tactical squads (breachers could work too) in rhinos

Should give you two or three tough, mobile scoring units, they won't win you the battle, but you could always add in more powerful units like dreadnoughts, tanks, or a full 10 man terminator squad.

Kharn is German and about half the legions recruited from Britatin.

I have some Darkfire Castellax, but they struggle against Land Raiders, especially if they have flare shields. Thanatar is good though, though I think the plasma mortar wants to be targeting infantry over vehicles. I do have a Vulturax on my to buy list, though.

I like the Iron Hands' rules, just not a great fan of their colour scheme or fluff, and I'm on the fence about their models.

On a side note, I read Veteran Tactical Squads have Implacable Advance, but I don't see it in their Crusade BRB profile. Am I blind or is it said elsewhere?

I thought Kharn was either Serbian or Siberian (I forget which). Regarding Europe Emperor's Children specifically recruited from European nobility, since multiple legions are mentioned to have recruited from Albion (or Albon or whatever 40k calls Britain) I think Britain may be excluded from the Emperor's Children's recruiting grounds. Imperial Fists recruited from everywhere but have heavy Germanic influences, Thousand Sons recruited from Persia/Iran, and IIRC Iron Warriors came from Merica.

>I like the Iron Hands' rules, just not a great fan of their colour scheme or fluff, and I'm on the fence about their models.
What kind of aesthetics and fluff do you like? I mean there are 18 legions so it might be better for you to explain your general preferences than for me to list off legions at random until you find your perfect one.
>On a side note, I read Veteran Tactical Squads have Implacable Advance, but I don't see it in their Crusade BRB profile. Am I blind or is it said elsewhere?
In their special rules in the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List, third rule listed, page 28.

A Venator Krios or 5 Grav Myrmadons is a better bet for anti tank duty.

Not him, but I don't care for grav myrmidons their range is so short that you are better off just using melta thallax or the thallax guys who can take power fists.

That's all well and good, but I'm not getting into HH while it's still hundreds of dollars just in books to start. Inferno is a nice looking book, but I just need the Thousand Sons rules.

Well, to narrow it down I like Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Salamanders for the loyalists. For traitors, Iron Warriors, Night Lords. However I've fluffed my Cybernetica as loyalists (though I don't use any loyalist-only models like Caleb).

>In their special rules in the Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List, third rule listed, page 28.
Am I retarded? That book only seems to cover the special units for the Legions. And page 28 of the Crusade Army List covers something different.

A Krios (Venator?) is also something I want to get.

>Well, to narrow it down I like Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, and Salamanders for the loyalists. For traitors, Iron Warriors, Night Lords. However I've fluffed my Cybernetica as loyalists (though I don't use any loyalist-only models like Caleb).
Out of the loyalists none of them particularly stand out as being exceptionally good or bad when it comes to scoring. Ultramarines are flexible, Salamanders like flamers and melta and are pretty stalwart also they are sworn brothers, Imperial Fists are better with bolters.

Using the same core allies list I would probably go with Salamanders or Imperial Fists. Salamanders are a bit harder to break and if you want to bulk up your army to make it more lethal using either firedrakes or giving regular terminators storm shields is a great idea. For Imperial Fists your tactical squads are BS 5 which is pretty big and sniper vets also being BS 5 is a pretty nice perk.

Ultramarines while not a bad army benefit more if they have lots of Ultramarines units (since they get bonuses for combined fire or assault) which is hard to do with allies.

>Am I retarded? That book only seems to cover the special units for the Legions. And page 28 of the Crusade Army List covers something different.
I think we are looking at different books. Pic related is the cover of what I'm looking at. Make sure you aren't looking at the Crusade Imperialism book since that covers militia and auxilia.

Thanks. I'll have to look into it more. Honestly I was thinking of getting two seperate armies, but why not use all your toys, right?

Aha, I don't have that one. My perfectly legitimate and legally aquired physical matter books are the Legiones Astartes Crusade Army List black book, and the LA Age of Darkness Legions red book.

Either way, that they have Implacable Advance was the important part.

I'm new to HH and I was wondering what a X++ save is? I know what a X+ is, but not X++.

X++ generally means an invulnerable save. So a model with a 2+/3++ save has a 2+ armour save, if they are being shot at with an AP 2 or better weapon they can still use their 3+ invulnerable save.

Well, it's not an official thing, so you won't find that terminology in the actual rulebooks. It's a piece of community nomenclature, usually used for either an invulnerable save or a FNP roll.

Thanks friends.

See, according to the fluff you're right, but that fluff also makes no goddamn sense, and for some reason I feel the need to justify this irregularity because I'm autistic.

It will always be fairly ridiculous to get into… which is we post PDFs.

For now you (you, specifically) need 3 books: rulebook, Legiones Astartes Age of Darkness Army List, Inferno.

You can get three 10-man squads of mkIII marines off ebay for about $75 after shipping.
The only benefits of getting a full Prospero box are the Custodes and Sisters, so if you don't want either of those then just go with ebay resellers. You'll save about $50 and you'll only lose out on characters you probably don't want, the Custodes/Sisters, and the heavy game times you'll just throw away anyway.

I vote Ultramarines, largely due to not seeing them get much love from players due to modern memes.

>Honestly I was thinking of getting two seperate armies, but why not use all your toys, right?
Well if you are considering using them as separate armies Night Lords and Iron Warriors are both potentially very interesting armies. Iron Warriors get access to lots of special heavy weapons and artillery, while Night Lords are super spooky and pretty solid in assault with possibly the best generic terminators.

If you are willing to fluff your traitors as loyalists or just count your Mechanicum forces as an unrelated traitor force when allying them they could make a very interesting combo. For Night Lords
>Deepstriking terminators with rerolls if they outnumber the enemy (termies and jump pack dudes count as 2 guys for these purposes)
>Fucking with enemy morale
>Raptors are essentially assault marines on steroids
>Can use assault marines (mobile and lethal troop choice) in large numbers while still being fluffy and benefiting from using said troops

For Iron Warriors
>Heavy artillery so you can feel a bit like the Ordo Reductor (who are clearly superior to beep boops)
>Havocs can make useful anti-tank squads even if they can get pretty expensive
>Siege Tyrants are good at devastating hordes whether marines or militia
>Tend to work well with vehicles
>Sworn brothers with Mechanicum

Personally if I was you and I did prefer the traitor legions I would keep them as traitors and just say "these Mechanicum forces are traitors unlike my Mechanicum force when played alone, who are loyalists." Granted I personally dislike the number of loyalists everywhere, especially among traitor legions.

I agree on most points, but I have to say the idea of loyalist Night Lords tickles me in the most wonderful way.

>NL: Greetings, fellow loyalist! I bring you a gift to reinforce our camaraderie and mutual support against the vile traitors.
>IF: Is this a cape made out skin?
>NL: Baby skin! The freshest.
>IF: . . .
>NL: I made it myself.
>IF: . . . baby skin?
>NL: The babies were traitors.
>IF: . . .
>NL: Probably.

>modern memes
Ultras have been a meme for over a decade. Even before the coming of Ward, they were still always the by-the-books generic good guys with more successors than any other Legion.

Yes, but people didn't start to actively hate them until the whole "Spiritual Liege" incident.

>the babies were traitors
>possibly

I feel like loyalist World Eaters and the Emperor's Children who are loyalists but use sonic shriekers are much the same.
>EC: HELLO FELLOW BATTLE BROTHERS WE THE EMPEROR'S CHILDREN ARE HERE TO AID YOU IN YOUR HOUR OF NEED!!!
>UM: Okay, no need to get so excited.
>EC: I AM NOT EXCITED THIS IS MY DEFAULT VOLUME!!!
>UM: Does it have to do with that boom box installed into your mouth?
>EC: WHY YES IT DOES COMRADE, THESE VOCAL IMPLANTS ALLOW ME TO STARTLE THE ENEMY IN COMBAT GIVING ME A POTENTIALLY DECISIVE EDGE!!!
>UM: Well as long as you aren't using kakophoni I guess it is okay.
>EC: INDEED BROTHER THOSE DEGENERATES ARE TRULY BEYOND REDEMPTION!!!