Orcs and goblins have been enemies for centuries

>Orcs and goblins have been enemies for centuries.
>The goblins are slowly getting the upper hand in the war.

How could that happen?

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They allied with the dwarves. Shorties gotta stick together.

Just waiting for the first goblin slayer pics.

Orcs age slower and can't train as fast, so their soldiers are always a little green!

Goblins realized they were smarter. They actually build things like barricades and guns.

Climate change mixed with a decentralization of power within the Orc community due to a sucession of ineffectual leaders ruling through their subordinates rather than direct wisdom. Also resource-heavy requirement to continue the war with political unrest at home.

You know, how most stronger civilizations fall to technologically inferior ones.

They outnumbered and outwit them. Orcs have besides their seemingly brutal and ruthless nature, something like a code of honor. Goblins, on the other hand, are willing to do everything to kill their opponent.

Something like this I would assume.

Guerilla warfare tactics. The goblins became smarter as a species over time as the orcs wiped out the dumb ones while the more intelligent survivors bred.

...

Guerrilla warfare on the part of the goblins; if they're living off the land and able to go bushwhacking against orcs, they'd feel the squeeze pretty quick.

Sheer numbers
>for centuries
Oh wait, some contrived bullshit that didn't happen hundreds of years sooner because of reasons.

Through clever goblin trickery, they lured the first Orc legion into the Smoking Swamps, bogging down their efforts to advance on the Western front.

Goblins are great at guerrilla warfare. Run in, stab, run away before the comparatively slower orcs can hit you.

Say that to my face

Superior numbers

A goblin religious leader is spreading fanaticism among his followers and the resulting power their god gains from the crusade/jihad is crushing the orc's disparate spirit-gods.

Ambush tactics, never facing them directly openly in the field, flanking, more use of light and fast cavalry with wolves, greater monstrous allies in the form of trolls.

Greater expendability so one Orc loss is huge but 50 goblins lost is zilch and it doesn't take 50 Gobbos to take out one Orc.

Goblins are also far more numerous than Orcs so while each defeat for the Orcs is devastating, a loss for the Goblins is a setback so only a few need to survive to spread like rabbits again.

But AnnonmĂ­r. Orcs and goblins are the same thing.

The orcish shaman caste effectively created a ruling class of complacent morons whose only tactical approach consists of frontal charges. Goblin militias instead came to reward cleverness and loyalty rather than the ability to kick the ass of the former leader and scare the runts

They allied with Kobolds

this, the Underground Union will conquer all Sky-seers.

>we were fighting our own troops.jpeg

Is this anything new for you, snaga?
I'll rip tour guts and chew them cold, worthless Morgul-scum.

Is guerrilla that effective if you are against some whose a okay to destory everything?

Goblins unionized

including but not limited to:
>using cousins as cannon ammo
>strapping cousins to explosives
>using cousins in suicide attack towards orc villages

Guerilla tactics that work much better than the orc's brainless horde approach.

Goblins have superior skills in sorcery and/or higher numbers of sorcerers, adding magic that the arcanophobic orcs can't match.

Goblins have turned to alchemical enhancements to produce superior mutant soldiers - bugbears, hobgoblins, even trolls.

Goblins have superior animal husbandry skills, training deadly creatures for use as battle beasts.

Yes. It's extremely difficult to actually remove enemies from all sorts of terrain (Think Jungles in Vietnam, badlands and mountains in Afghanistan), even if you're willing to level it without a second thought. The whole premise behind guerrilla fighting is being able to damage supply lines and un/derdefended areas by refusing to engage directly the bulk of the enemy army; very doable.

Due to their far smaller frame they are capable of living off of far less than a full grown orc and are better suited to hiding.

This coupled with advances in the refinement of poison has rendered the strength advantage of the orcs somewhat lessened.

or orcs are bigger and need to eat lots, where as a goblin can live for a week on half a boot

or this

Guerilla basically needs one thing to work and it's being deeply embedded in the general population to the point that tacit support is nearly universal (even after Tet there were entire neighborhoods of Hanoi/HCMV that were still largely pro north).

An enemy that's willing to wage genocidal warfare is, if anything, going to feed a guerilla movement even harder because everyone is now realizing that if they don't join the fight they'll be dead either way.

So in seeking to destroy everything, the orcs are just feeding the goblins' willingness to resist to the last.

Economics, culture and pressure to adapt.

Goblins just build more efficient societies, Orcs never dropped the nomadic lifestyle that let them start being successful but goblins who were initially driven into sedentary settlements in defensible areas by being out-competed in open country were forced to develop more complex economies and normalise relations with other non-nomadic peoples.

The inertia is finally kicking in, Goblin Rome is coming so look fucking busy because they can call up a new legion for every one you devastate with your shitty horde of majestic warrior nobility. They've got pikes, war machines, human auxiliaries and an actual officer corp so congratulations orcs, you wanted to create the world's most powerful empire and you succeeded.

The gobs got the hang of magic faster than the orcs.

Orcs suck at logistics, and non-frontline warfare. Goblins sabotage, harass, skirmish, and do all kinds of nasty brutish traps. The goblins have finally decided that fighting fair is for idiots and have decided to make the orcs pay for every inch of battlefield they take. The orcs are "winning" battles, but they do not realize that every victory is Pyrrhic, and they have been allowed to win to make their fronts vulnerable. Soon, soon the goblins will spring the trap, but not today. Today is another blood soaked victory with heavy losses for some orc warchief who has no idea what he is getting himself into.

The goblins have invented banking, and are fabulously wealthy.

Can't believe no one has posted it yet. Just look to real life races. You all know which two I'm referring to.

>I can't believe no one has fucked up the thread with /pol/shit
I know it's great right?!

Physical size and strength have little impact on a culture's effectiveness in war. Tactics, numbers, resources, and technology are all far more important than how big and strong your fighters are. See Rome. Or the Mongols.

If you're actually asking this question and not just trying to spur arguments, you would want to define what sort of military tactics and equipment the orcs used, and give the goblins a tactical array that could overpower it.

Yeah I had to post it things were getting too weird like I was on a different website.

>Rome
Seriously the romans were borderline dwarves compared to some of the peoples they conquered

The Orc Leader is actually two goblins in a trenchcoat.

This tbqh

RUNTZ IS SNEAKY GITZ INNIT. DEY IZ ONLY GOOD FER FETCHIN AN KICKIN. AN STOPPING ARRERS. WIV DERE EADS.

YEH. LIKE I SED. SNEAKY GITZ!

A Greater Blue was born, and leads a war council of Blues.

d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/blue.htm

Feel free to replace Blue with any of the other rare specially-powered Goblin subraces.

Google says the Romans averaged at 168, but that taller was by no means uncommon, are believed to have been 174 on average, some dude named Vegetius also states that the minimum height for a legionary at one point was 177.

Goblins breed like rats.

Vegetus was talking about Praetorians not common Legionaries. And that was only during one Emperor's reign.

Orcs are all brute force and relatively primitive, while goblins are pathetic weaklings but cunning. Given centuries of racial strife between the two, it would only make sense that goblins would eventually be able to place themselves on a technical superiority to their dim-witted cousins which supplemented by breeding like rabbits, gives them an increasing edge in the conflict while also likely drawing the interest of other parties curious to arm themselves with goblin devices.

Basically, orcs get a bonus to their Strength at a cost of all or most of their mental attributes while goblins get a bonus to their Dexterity and no lose to mental attributes other than Charisma. The exact nature of this depends on the system but irregardless, goblins are usually shown as agile and cunning while orcs are brutish savages. If you give the cunning gitz enough time to advance their technology and breed like vermin, the cunning gitz are gonna come out on top.

Theoretically, Direct warfare methods like barbarism, which orcs would use, is ineffective against guerilla warfare aka an indirect war method.

Who cares what fucking Vegeta thought anyway he's a canon midget

...

Goblins made a conscious, albeit difficult effort to "civilize", basically trying to act as friendly as possible to other common races like humans in order to trade and be able to live near or even among them, tribes sending chosen members to learn from accomplished individuals or to academies, and chiefs trying hard and offering much incentive for marrying their sons and daughters.

The result, in part due to relatively shorter goblin lifespan, is that within 1-2 generations of about 30 years the goblins became "civilized". They're basically weeaboos for more "cultured" races in trying to appeal to and emulate them. However, they have the sympathies and support of these races now, not just only because political marriages. So now not only do the goblins have extra defense of living among other races (so attacking them means attacking the others) but also when they go to war they're often accompanied by militaries of other races. And when they show up to the meeting table with the orcs, they're all dolled up in power wigs and fancy clothes, accompanied by experienced diplomats of other races.

>tl;dr the goblins sold their traditions and culture for victory, and latched onto other stronger or at least more organized races.

Some older or more traditional goblins lament the betrayal of the old ways and wish for a return, but most enjoy city living, rich/cultured food and goods and homes, and the prospect of landing something like a human wife or elven husband.

This aside , literally no army ever uses anyone but their tallest recruits for their elite guard units

I'm gunna stuff you into a body-condom and use you to rape an elephant's asshole, Carlos, I swear to Jesus I will.

Numbers, the same way massive US battle crusers are legitly threatened by cheaper boat and missile swarms.

If it takes 6 months to equip and train an orc and in that time you can get 20 goblins well you just have to ensure a better than 20 to 1 ratio and youll win.

Also use numbers to tax them, like mass raids on food stores and such over wide areas all at once, mixed with harassment, and feints.

Goblins have war drones and aircraft carriers while orcs have trucks and outdated guns from the ex-Sovielf Union.

It couldn't. Orcs are the biggest and the strongest.

Orcs (And Orc armies) demolish Goblins, even trickery can only go so far when the average footsoldier is literally 3-4 times your size and 90% muscle. However the Goblins have been sabotaging what little agriculture the Orcs can manage with their limited education on the subject for long enough that most of the Orc's hunter/gatherer game they've been relying on has been almost completely depleted, so there's effectively a famine among the Orcs.

Of course, this means the Orcs are increasingly desperate and have no qualms with making the Goblins they grind up in battle into dinner, so who's to say they didn't shoot themselves in the foot by making themselves the only viable food source left for them.

He means that orcs will come, destroy your cities and villages, plunder your goods and go back to home. Guerrilla is normally the awnser to an attempted occupation. Some ambushes will make their work harder of course but ambushing isn't guerrilla's monopoly.

Orcs kept doing the same winning strategy, while the goblins were forced to change theirs, using an array of traps and positioning chokes.

I just realized I forgot to write gauls before the 174 on average.