Excuse me, chapter master? Why do we limit our force to 1...

Excuse me, chapter master? Why do we limit our force to 1,000 and usually fight in deployments of under 100 when we face countless hordes of xenos and demons. Might as we are I find it hard to believe some of the stories that are told about us.

We're that good.

It makes us look more heroic when a few brothers face off against faceless and nameless hordes of enemies.

boarding a spacehulk isn't very heroic if all the genestealers were viralbombed first.

But sire, if I may humbly say we are a valuable resource and could do far more good in a larger warzone if we deployed en masse?

I'm not sure how no ones had this discussion with you in two centuries - unless those are bullet holes and not service studs, which would certainly explain some things about your memory - but stand at ease, i'll explain.

In the wake of the Horus Heresy the Imperium was splintered. Humanity had come within a stones throw of destroying itself. Anything less than total unity in that moment could have cost us our entire existence. But there were problems.

First, the Imperiums forces had greatly weakened themselves with the infighting. Standing forces were reduced to a fraction of their former strength. As the siege of Terra ended, two things became abundantly clear: We needed to hold our territory, and that we did not have the manpower to hold our territory.

The logistical and command challenges faced necessitated breaking down the existing command structures, which had been built around large legionary strength expeditionary forces, into more flexible sub units that could better coordinate and respond rapidly to calls for assistance and crises. Combined with the fact that the heresy was still being fought in many places, and would continue to be for the better part of a century, and there simply wasn't the time or leisure to reform large legionary forces.

...

Not that user, but could the Astartes have rebuilt the legions with enough time, or was there simply not enough resources left to do so?

>following the codex
Laughingspacewolf.jpg

More troubling was the fact that the Heresy had created - or perhaps, revealed - deep seated anxieties the baseline humans who made up the bulk of the Imperium had about the Astartes. Horus had essentially taken our warrior culture and shown a darker side of it to the civilian authorities of the Imperium. There was tremendous fear that Horus' betrayal was just the first, and that in the vacuum of the Emperors sitting on the throne, another Primarch would rise to his place. In response to this, and the demands of the ruling Interregnum of Terra that the Astartes adopt safer and more controllable organization, Roboute Guilliman incorporated the Chapter system into official Astartes doctrine as a safeguard against any future malfeasance. A single rogue commander would no longer have the over-all strategic capability of staging a massive rebellion against the Empire on his lonesome. To be certain treason could still spread among a cabal, as it did with Horus, but compartmentalization meant it would have to spread further, through more layers, in order to reach a threatening critical mass. The idea was that by separating the Legions into Chapter forces, that extra layer of isolation would prevent malfeasant collusion.

There was also simply the matter we couldn't have rebuilt the legions if we wanted to. We didn't have the time or the resources - records, doctrines, equipment; so many irreplaceable things were destroyed during the heresy. Maintaining standing Marine forces as we had before was impossible, we simply couldn't produce that many. In order to prevent the loss of the Astartes as a whole, downsizing was necessary. This resulted in a shift of the Imperiums strategic doctrine, away from aggressive crusading forces of Astartes supported by baseline auxiliaries, towards relying on massed baseline human armies with the Astartes acting as specialists and support.

Fuck off trying to ressurect this shitty forced meme, you spamming faggot.

You already made this thread months ago in your last spamming spree.

After that, sheer inertia took it's toll. The Imperium, as i'm sure you know, is vast, and is constantly at war in some way or another. This is a lingering effect of the heresy - as I mentioned, we couldn't lose any of our territory, but we couldn't keep it either. Too many human souls were relying on us to same them from butchery or damnation.

We know now that Primarch Guilliman - thanks to his return to us - had intended the restructuring as a stop-gap measure, in the hopes that the legions could be rebuilt after the Imperium recovered. But it never really recovered. One of the first things the Primarch did when he woke up was to begin stripping away the now millennia old restrictions on the Space Marines. We aren't quite transitioned to full Legions yet, but size doctrine is getting flexed, and then there's the matter of the chapterless Primaris who serve the Primarch directly... This was only really possible because apparently he'd stuck a Admech Magos in a hole with a batch of Geneseed and told him "build me an army". And, being a Magos and therefore a machine minded savant, he did just that, never minding the fact Primarch Guilliman was put into a coma for centuries. He just kept building, since no one was around to tell him to stop. And that's where we are now.

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This.

Because they rarely fight alone as 100, theyre usually bolstered by tens of thousands of PDF or AM/IG

Mad

Because anyone with the title Marine must be understaffed, under supplied, and under fire.

The answer is...

>Why do we limit our force to 1,000?

Because they don't want any one Chapter becoming uber-powerful. They keep them split up and limited on purpose.

>usually fight in deployments of under 100 when we face countless hordes of xenos and demons?

Because lore-wise the Space Marines are INSANELY powerful. Ever play the game "Space Marine?" Yeah, that's more accurate to cannon-level Space Marine strength.

GW wants to sell models though. If the tabletop was accurate to the lore, you'd be fielding armies of 5-10 models top.

If you wanted Logistics, You should've joined the Guard.

>This was only really possible because apparently he'd stuck a Admech Magos in a hole with a batch of Geneseed and told him "build me an army". And, being a Magos and therefore a machine minded savant, he did just that, never minding the fact Primarch Guilliman was put into a coma for centuries. He just kept building, since no one was around to tell him to stop.
This is probably one of the funniest parts of the whole return of G-money. He told Cawl to build him an army, expecting a few thousand short-term Astartes. Instead, he got a legion-strength army of Chadmarines and had nfi what to do with them beyond "welp, time to Crusade".

No and no you fucking mongaloid.

They are kept under 1000 because guliman is a fucking moron and though that hey, know what would be a great idea? Gimping the most powerful force the imperium had because we don't want them to turn traitor, despite literally just getting done with rooting out all the bad apples and only loyalists remained. The only 2 chapters to give the finger to girlyman was the space wolves who said fuck you we do what we want and remained a legion and the dark angels who went lol sure we will totally split our forces and not actually control all of them still

Mostly this.
See Badab War.
The wider Imperium absolutely does not want space marines to have the numbers and power that the legions possessed, and the limitations of the Codex Astartes was as much to appease an Imperium that was prepared to sanction the entire space marine force once the catastrophic damage they could do to allies became clear.
is the current internet meme. 40k chapters are more genetically stable and have a far higher degree of both training and screening of applicants than the legions ever attempted, and are equipped in such a way that the Imperial Guard could defeat a chapter at full force if they went rogue, and this is entirely by design.
If TT resemble lore, every battle with a SM army would involve all opposing forces taking bombardment either from orbital vessels or thunderhawk bombing runs before the first turn even began, then either massed drop pod assault, massed rhino/razorback sweep or deployment from aerial assets right into the maw of the enemy to engage them in close quarters.

>He just kept building, since no one was around to tell him to stop.

I don't think Cawl would have listened even if they had. He's probably already made Chad Luna Wolves and flesh-change free Thousand Sons. He's named after Welsh soup because he doesn't give a fuck.

/thread
The Adeptus Astartes are the tip of the spear and the IG/PDF are the pole

Exactly. Shame that even the fucking game doesn't reflect this.

>Because they don't want any one Chapter becoming uber-powerful. They keep them split up and limited on purpose.
Unless of course you are Ultras, Templars, wolves or unforgiven. Good job, bobby G

Then again, don’t the Minotaurs deploy their entire chapter at once into every battle?

While the core idea of the codex astartes is a good idea, the 1,000 limit is extremely superficial. Each of the legions were able to keep up their numbers during the great crusade with a single primary recruiting world, and before the primarchs were rediscovered all marines were recruited from one planet (Terra). Chapters should be capped at 10,000-500,000 depending on if you want to lowball the numbers to allow feral homeworld chapters to keep up or highball it so even if a chapter with 500,000 marines revolts there are still several chapters with enough marines to each solo them.

Say what you want about the Admech, when you eventually lever them into doing something they do it properly. They're a bit like Discworld Igors in that respect. You don't get what you ask for, you get what you WANTED, plus extras.

Also, did some maths after going through the HH black books and Admech codexes. There's anywhere between 600k and 1200k Legio Cybernetica bots directly attached to Imperial forces (plus some as Forge World guards and fleet attaches, since the LC is merely the largest concentration) and they're stronger than Marines/Matches for Dreads according to the Iron Hands in Eye of Medusa. There are also millions of Myrmidons which are at least Marine strength. MoM has one laying the beatdown on three EC at once, although he was a sarge equivalent.
Add in subcults, Ordinatii, the Ordo Reductor, the Genetors, Titans, billions of Skitarii packing plasma SMGs and railgun snipers, tens of thousands of Kataphrons with grav weapons better than the Astartes ones.... That's just one major Forge World with their allies, and there's hundreds.
Marines aint got shit in comparison. Seems fairly obvious when you read between the propaganda lines that the Marines do very little in comparison to the Guard, Ecclesiarchy and Admech, they're not well equipped enough and there's nowhere near enough of them even if they didn't focus too much on battleline equipment like Vindicators and big tonks to be a focussed special ops force.

Ultras and Templars use loopholes, Wolves never signed onto it and Unforgiven is something nobody knows about and would've gotten them into deep shit.

Everybody knows and accepts that Chapters should be 10,000 minimum, and if 40k were realistic they'd probably have to be 100,000.

Old news

500000 are a bit too much but 10000 seems to be a good number - Regiment sized

>but durr how do 100 spess mareens take a planat all by dem selvs durrrrr???

9999 out of 10000 times marines are always fighting alongside AM, pdf, admech, and countless other allies who do most of the fighting while marines take key objectives or kill enemy leaders.

I agree.

Bump

>tfw Roubute knows this and is probably going to disband the chapter limit and go full on legion building while elevating key space marine heros to become Tetrarchs (Or Neo Primarchs or other fancy fake latin name). Courtesy of Cawl who probably thinks Bile is a noncy faggot wannabe.

1 thousand legions soon lads, backed up by hundreds of overpowered and "Primaris'd" factions coming out of the woodwork of Cawl and probably the millions of ad mech and radical scientists that will be unleashed to create all the rational or completely insane tech ever.

Wow, three necromances in a row.
That's pretty sad.

Because the Space Book says we have to.

Because Astartes are usually shock troops, not the main force.

Not if Cawl can help it.

>loopholes
WRONG WRONG WRONG

Templars ignore the codex entirely. Ultras don’t grossly violate the codex by having a few extra men such as the tyrannic war veterans.

That would sorta defeat the purpose of being Space Marines if they aren't Space Marines, yeah?

oh god it made me laugh because it's true

Do you think brother sergeants yell at their scouts about wearing white socks and keeping their hands in their pockets?

>He's probably already made Chad Luna Wolves and flesh-change free Thousand Sons.
Aren't some of the new Primaris chapters implied by way of suspicious colour schemes and "claims" of their gene-heritage along with their preferred tactics to potentially be Traitor Legions anyway?

Still trying to force this shit?

I agree.

Definitely

...

He's been trying to force his meme for years now. You really think he ever had enough sense to know when to give up?

>You really think he ever had enough sense to know when to give up?
Yeah, by now you'd think he would have something better to do than lurk in a thread he doesn't like just so he can complain whenever somebody bumps it.

Do you think this is Neogaf?