Has warhammer (40k and fantasy's continuation Age of Sigmar) become too casualized...

Has warhammer (40k and fantasy's continuation Age of Sigmar) become too casualized? It feels like every new thing they release has to be "bigger", bigger space marines, bigger undead monsters. It feels as though the hobby has begun lacking in soul.

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Let me guess you started with Whfb 6e or 40k 4th

Not OP but your guess is interesting for me since I basically started with 40k 3rd and WHFB 6th edition.

So yeah, why your guess?

All the "problems" that OP mentions started in those editions even though people think of them as great

I'd say it's partially because they can. Also money.

If the original creaters of warhammer were able to cast big and highly detailed plastic models, they'd probably have done so.
Nowadays it's mostly because they can grab lots of cash with a single figure.

People forget the metal thunderhawk

GW love solo minis

what does bigger models have to do with casualization? and honestly 7th got way out of hand with the fucking 500 different detachments spread through 30 books, it needed to be brought back to 0 so it can start again. and as to having bigger models, you can only make so many different marines with bolt pistol and chain sword variants before people get bored and leave the hobby, you have to put new stuff out

I think cult of the new is bigger problem. I mean how many plastic do you have unpainted in a corner?

I'm just waiting for the day when GW starts rolling more kits into single unit boxes and charging an arm for em.

>This one box can build 15 different units of various role types with all of their various load-outs.
>Including a basic troop!
>But there are only enough base parts to build one of them
>80€ buy 20 now!

> all those bits but just a few torsos and legs

>he complains

>all of those bits
>only makes ONE torso and one pair of legs

Legs have been the limiting factor for a long time now. Assault Marine kits for example could build far more than 5 men, as they contained 10 torsos, over 6 heads, 5 jump packs and 5 backpacks, and over 15 arms, but only 5 legs and bases.

I can't remember any fuckhuge centerpiece models getting released in 4th/6e
Monolith, Land Raider and all the other tanks were 3rd Edition. Pretty sure all the metal dragons were 5e, maybe Galrauch was released during SoC? And possible the Plastic Giant at the ass-end of 6th, but I'm not positive on that.

> Started
GW has been rotting since shortly after the management buyout, but it only really started to show after 3rd and it took until the last few years for people to notice that they've been puppeting a decaying corpse for nearly 2 decades, since things are actually started dropping off and ruining the carpet. The popularity of the setting and nostalgia for the days when the content was produced by people with actual talent is no longer enough to hold people's interest, so they've gone full retard with the childrens toy commercial approach.

Except going by the embarrassingly lazy Primaris kits, those extra bits will be a slightly different barrel/scope/magazine or an extra cable.

Age of Sigmar is much better than Fantasy.
The rules are easier to understand and the lore is not as confusing.

>confusing
please be bait

The gun variants were by far the most disappointing part about Primaris. Only exception is heavy plasma cause it gets a backpack and tube, and the Inceptor plasma and multi-part bolters getting wire rails.

So what? Just because you were introduced to the hobby into an already shitty version of the game doesnt mean you cant want it to be better?

I can totally understand having problems with the rules, but the lore of WHFB was by no means confusing.

its easy yes but i miss some of the rules of the WFB .
age of sigmar is faster and less complex for new people that don;t want study 500 page book with shit toon of mini rules.
I playh both and iam having fun but i know that here "Fun" its a buzz word for casual

>WHFB's lore
>confusing
brainlet detected

Yeah, I don't care if it's because they were held back because of casting technology and techniques, but GW's design studio was in a much better place a couple of decades ago.

A lot more talent from different backgrounds, a lot more people, a lot more creative freedom to dither into side-projects. We wouldn't get Necromunda or Blood Bowl out of nuGW, only these recent remakes which split the rules into supplements and whatever other dumb shit they want to sell you.

Now it's mostly interns with CAD experience being held in check by a few of the old guard and the suits telling them exactly what to make.

For example, look how many Chaos champions they made in one release, whatever you think of them. Now there's only one Bloodsecrator, one Primaris Chaplain etc. for little timmy to assemble (ironically also monopose because of how the sprues are cut) and lead his army with.

Guess its this crux with exposure and getting new things that is toxic nowadays.
You can see that in /v/, /tv/ and /co/, things are easy forgotten and people tend to want new material.
Dont know if this is some typical human behaviour. At least that is what drives evolution and science. Maybe our brains are too big and complex that it revolts against boredom and always seeks new things.

Any game where you have to build and paint your own miniatures,and where you have to sit through Xbox huge rulebooks as well as to make your own army list of miniatures to field by calculating their point costs, cannot be considered as "casual" in the slightest.

Also
>everything is "bigger"
>therefore, it's casual

I think that you are a very bad troll, OP.

Age of Smegma's "rule book" is literally like, 4 pages long.

Jeez no wonder you need a very simple game to play your ass is retarded if you can't understand warhammer lore.

>people: space marines are disproportionate and the setting needs advancement games workshop should fix it
>games workshop: OK here are primaris and Primarchs have returned we also added this nifty warp scar across the galaxy
>people: fuck go back

Make up your fucking minds you twats!

It always was for casuals. Maybe you just stopped being one.

>Space marines are disproportionate
Here, have even more space marines, but even more space mariney
> The setting needs advancement
Only a very small group of ADHD children and unimaginative brain dead vidya types were saying that. GW have never, ever listened to the vocal minority before. It was a convenient excuse to rebrand and sell new models

Newfag detected.
> What is Rogue Trader
>What is 2nd ed

No shit, Sherlock. They're milking the last milk out of the game's teats.

Metal casting vs plastic is the reason for this ya dink. They can't make high enough quality plastics for cheap enough to justify doing a line that expansive. I wish they'd go back to metal, but they won't.

Lets be honest, the amount of shit they pushed into late M41 was getting out of hand and they were fast writing themselves into a corner. The fucking tau were planning a 4th sphere expansion when the 3rd had just started, and the 1st and 2nd spanned thousands of years.

Rogue Trader was a light-hearted game at heart. Not exactly simple but it encouraged a laid back attitude.

2nd edition was a shiny simplified game with kid friendly art and minis.

The actual rules within the rule book are only a few pages but the book itself is far larger than four pages and then there are the General's Handbooks on top of that.

Yeah, note the quotation marks, because you need:

A) the GHB's rules (for points mainly but also for scenario)
B9 the unit rules... which could easily make AoS' ruleset about as thick as WHFB's, because they have more unique rules per unit.

For some of the bigger kits they already do this. The Daemon Prince has enough parts to easily build a second, except for the back plate and a pair of legs. And this shit is why bitz markets exist.

You are a little late to the party. But you are right. They are pushing huge plastic kits that everyone is expected to use which look exactly the same. It really kills the variety of armies that you used to see. Most people with creativity left GW a while a go. It's why I stick with 30K and Blood Bowl these days.

I'd say yes, but I would also say that's not a bad thing. It would be stupid for a company to not try having a broader appeal for a broader market. Streamlining rules is all something I appreciate in game designers. Trimming the fat and smoothing out gameplay shows they are willing to change and listen to feedback, rather then stubbornly refusing to change what they see as already perfect *caught*gurps*palladium*Pathfinder*caught*

But keep in mind, while the GW games have tried to be more casual, they are still pretty niche and require a lot of dedication and investment. GW still refuses to do prepainted minis (thank God) and heavily encourages the painting and hobby side, and building a standard army in either game still requires a good chunk of cash or long term dedication.

So yes it may be more casual, but not as much as you think, and it's a good thing.

Too true. Plastic has its downsides I suppose, and even FW won't pick up the slack. What I wish they would do is have customizable HQs and individual models like the Space Marine captain kit rather than the mono-option ones that we are getting.

>It feels like every new thing they release has to be "bigger", bigger space marines, bigger undead monsters.

Here's the thing OP, that's not a symptom of 'casual', that's called power creep. GW can't write good lore, and can't balance the original game, so they tack on new and more powerful units. Power creep. A pleasant side effect (or more likely, the main objective) is to get people who are already invested in the game, to buy new, bigger models for more dollars, in order to stay competitive. A casual player would just leave, GW is milking the hardcore dry.

Nonsense, the 40k universe is a massive place. Even with all the hyperbolic nonsense that came with each new codex about faction x or y being the new biggest power/threat in the cosmos, there was still plenty to explore for anyone with the slightest shred of imagination. All they had to do was reign the fanboy / hack writers doing a pr job for flavor of the month and allow a little bit more creative variety in.

Oh fuck off, tryhard.

>So yes it may be more casual, but not as much as you think, and it's a good thing.
No, it's not. You'll see. Cap and revisit in a year or two.

And just what am I expecting to see that will prove to me it's not a good thing?

But they didn't. They had to keep adding more and more stuff into the same few years, characters appearing in different locations of the galaxy fighting different wars, and stretching the imagination more and more.

>Land Raider
>all the other tanks
>3rd Edition
okay

Baneblade was late 4th, iirc.

Pic fucking related. GW is actively dumbing down options so they don't scare away the casualfags.

New Death Guard look cool as fuck. Poxwalkers are hilarious and scary at the same time.

Fuck me... kit bashing used to be teh fun bit about teh models!

I dunno about you but I can now basically play 40K Epic with my actual models and that is 1000000% awesome.

>a new hobbyist having to convert or kitbash a model, which will then probably end up as one of their favorites due to being theirs
Oh no, the horror! We can't let our hobbyists be imaginative any more! Mandatory loadouts, WYSIWYG and you won't be getting anything outside your box!

That is heinous. And I thought that only Privateer Press did stuff like that.

Games Workshop: "Your Dudes" isn't cool on our part. We should keep pushing monopose units with Trademarkable NounVerb names for maximum copyright, that cannot be Chinacasted...that or nobody will want to Chinacast them.

Oh yeah, GW and WizKids are partnering up too. So prepainted 40Clix may soon be a thing:

wizkids.com/2017/10/19/wizkids-announces-new-partnership-with-games-workshop/

I am hoping that the partnership is just limited to licensed dice games and the like. Then again I hoped the same with Marvel and DC.

The rules in 8th stretch fucking 5 pages

Except you're wrong. They just don't want to force kitbashing for rules. But they still encourage conversions and kitbashing for aesthetics.

The whole point is for the rules to cover all available kits as-is.

Keep freaking out because prepainted minis aren't going to happen. Screencap this if you want.

Modern Raider, Russ, Taufish and Eldar Serpent Chassis were absolutely 3rd edition or earlier.

Interesting how you need much much more than those 5 pages of rules, huh?

Stop your stupid bitching. 40k isn't any more casual than it used to be. Streamlining the rules alone isn't enough to force it into the casual games category.

Even fucking shadespire isn't seen as a casual game by the greater tabletop gaming community

Games workshop isn't as much of a whore with their ip as the memes lead you to believe. The announcement only talks about the stupid dice games. 40klix is definitely not something I see happening

Sadly that comes at the cost of listbuilding options and personalization. No one had a problem with having to get a weapon from another kit beforehand.

So you've never seen a player bitch about having to buy bits or another kit just to have an option listed in their codex?

I have seen plenty, and apparently so has GW. That's the point. They probably get flooded with emails from noobs asking where the X bit is for the Y kit they bought, and complain when they're told they need to buy more kits for it.

I'm not saying I like it, but from a business standpoint it makes a lot of sense

I knew a guy locally who threw a huge fit with gw customer service because a picture on a kit had a bit that was not included in the kit. It wasn't missing, it was just not included. He demanded the bit and gw claimed the pictures don't always represent everything included inside. He of course claimed it was false advertising.

The thing was, he is no stranger to converting and kitbashing and does plenty, he just finds things like this bullshit

Gw must take things like this seriously. He can't be the only one that's done this, or the only player that's bought an autarch blister pack and asked where whatever option was that was in the codex, and likely claimed false advertising

its not lacking in anything, it just changed and most people dislike change.

that response is dead inside. I hope you all understand they didn't want it to be this way either.

Gw is a big company, and like any big company, they have a legal team they need to listen to, whether they like to or not. And this was most likely spurned by things like this

Almost as if people have different opinions and people were shouting down advancing the setting well before it happened.

Here was me thinking that the answer would be to open the bitz store or make blisters of heavy/special weapons.

>Here was me thinking that the answer would be to open the bitz store or make blisters of heavy/special weapons.
If all their kits were metal, sure. But it's not so cut and dry for plastic. And they have to weigh whether it's profitable to produce a kit for converting a single model, or just use those resources to just make a completely different complete kit that's likely in higher demand.

We do know they are trying to abandon resin and metal entirely long term, but that's another discussion as to why.

>The rules represent what we currently produce
Meanwhile, in the Grey Knights codex
>Oh yeah, here's 2 new HQ's you can take! Kits? Well just look at our cool kitbashes! Here's instructions on how to kitbash.
Your brother captain & chaplain kitbashes in that book are ass, GW.

>Meanwhile, in the Grey Knights codex
>Oh yeah, here's 2 new HQ's you can take! Kits? Well just look at our cool kitbashes! Here's instructions on how to kitbash.
Completely irrelevant because the wargear options on the nemesis dreadnight and grand master in nemesis dreadnight dataslates are exactly the same. The kitbashing is purely for aesthetics, which is what GW encourages.

They don't want to force kitbashing for rules, but they still encourage conversions and kitbashing for aesthetics.

Oh. I see how I misread that. Damn, I guess I can't really relate to. Sorry, man. Luckily, points cost per wargear and base cost are separated. It's made fluffy wargear possible with cool friends.