Should every RPG player read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Conan and so on at least once in their lives...

Should every RPG player read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Conan and so on at least once in their lives? What other books would you consider to be required reading?

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I don't insist on reading the entire ASOIAF, but you SHOULD read Hedge Knight.

The Lord of the Rings can be kind of a slog to get through. There is fantastic worldbuilding in there, but the story itself...drags. I feel it probably didn't need to be 1200 pages long.

The Hobbit is an excellent story, although it does have some flaws to it, like Bard not existing until literally the page before he kills Smaug, or the Arkenstone being entirely unmentioned until after Smaug is dead, at which point it becomes the most important thing in the book.

Robert E. Howard's Conan stories are generally excellent. I don't know if they're "required reading", but no one can do wrong by at least reading:
- "The Phoenix on the Sword"
- "The Queen of the Black Coast"
- "The People of the Black Circle"
- "The Hour of the Dragon" (perhaps the best Conan story if you're only going to read a single one, as the whole thing reads like a Conan Greatest Hits album)
- "Beyond the Black River"
- "Red Nails"

Treasure Island SHOULD be required reading for everyone, RPG player or not. And then required viewing is Muppet Treasure Island and Treasure Planet, which are the two best film adaptations. They're not loyal by any means to the raw text, but they are loyal to the spirit.

NO ONE under ANY circumstance should watch that GODAWFUL BBC miniseries adaptation of Treasure Island. The one with Eric Idle. It is...infuriating, since it comes so damn close to being good, and yet a single character choice means that it also fails utterly.

Just to keep things even, I'm also posting a Treasure Planet image.

>"There are nights when the winds of the Etherium - so inviting in their promise of flight and freedom - made one's spirit...soar!"

God dammit I love this movie.

Seen the movies. Don't need to read anything.

Treasure Planet is actually remarkably close to the source material, especially considering it's Disney. None of the things that actually mattered got changed, which I think makes it fairly unique.

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And the things it does change actually add to the narrative.

Like Jim's dad leaving him early on for John Silver to become his surrogate father figure.

It does keep to one of the most common changes, though - making Mr. Arrow a fine upstanding gentleman.

Eh...there is one change that I can't get behind or support, an that's changing the name of Hispaniola to instead be Legacy.

(Specifically the RLS Legacy, RLS obviously being Robert Louis Stevenson's initials. In-universe I like to think that it stands for Royal Light-Ship)

I actually can't understand the thought process behind it, since almost everything else keeps their names intact. The only other real chance is Scroop, as he's obviously our Israel Hands stand-in, but then again I don't mind that change because something about the name Israel Hands has always unnerved me and made me nervous (which actually fits fine for the character)

Mind, changing Hispaniola's name might actually explain the movie's failure. In the original book, Silver has a bit where he remarks that changing the name of a ship is horrifically bad luck. A ship should keep the name she's christened with, and that no good ever game of changing a ship's name.

Dammit I love Treasure Island. There are plenty of books that I'll re-read, but Treasure Island is the only one that I can read through to the last page and then IMMEDIATELY turn back to the first page and start again.

>Like Jim's dad leaving him early on for John Silver to become his surrogate father figure.

This I 100% get behind.

As long as you're not a fan of Moorcock I don't really care.

What's wrong with Moorcock?

Is this real?

No you stupid fuck because there's too many different kinds of roleplay.

The only kind of rule you can create is that you should read good literature, because good literature can be applied anywhere regardless of genre. Of that, I guess Tolkien counts.

Myths and classical literature are the most helpful for D&D style RPGs, for the obvious reason.

No, some low fantasy story like LotR is by no means required reading for any RPG setting.

I'm not sure it'll very much help me run modern day or sci-fi games.

Too many makes you ache.

Not op but you've got to be very careful reading Moorcuck, he oscillates in quality heavily and he has a habit of revising his earlier stuff with the sole intent on making it worse.

Good job, user.

I mean, the only thing I've ever read by him was this recent comic book series based on his books. I kinda liked the first one and I really like the concept itself, but I'll take your word for it, I suppose.

Well played.

Fafhrd & The Grey Mouser.
Solomon Kane.
Uprooted, if you're planning to throw romance into your game.

Dune, Hyperion, A Fire Upon the Deep and Foundation and Earth will help you on the sci-fi part.

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God fucking dammit.

I can't get players to read any part of the the core book except how to create a character (if that), why would I even try to get them to read an unrelated story?

Reading recommendation to my players.
Tale of the Comet
The Galactic Mage
Salvage Trouble

LotR is my favorite book I would never actually recommend. The thing is it's not really a novel. It's an epic poem written in prose rather than verse. It's like Beowulf or the Odyssey. If you like epic literature then you should read it. If you don't, then you can get everything you'd otherwise want out of it from watching the movies.

As for giving you context from RPGs, well I still wouldn't recommend it. In terms of theme and content LotR is so far removed from your typical fantasy game it might as well be a different genre.

Being well-read is nice. But in my opinion, the only required reading for RPGs is the rulebook.

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I still recommend the BBC radio drama as the apex LotR adaptation. It's a lot longer than the movies but is designed to be taken in digestible chunks. The characters are truer to the source material (which is a huge deal for Gimli, who as the movies went on became more comic and ridiculous). It still omits some things but overall has much of the best stuff that even the extended films passed up. I've been in love with it since before the movies came out.

Anyone else try to get through wheel of time and just gave up? A few chapters into the second book and I couldn't stand any more of his prose

Conan IS literature.

Since all of Chuck Tingle's works are the real deal, it probably is.

I still wonder if Chuck Tingle is some kind of machine learning experiment.

We need to go deeper.

Pounded In The Butt By My Book "Pounded In The Butt By My Book 'Pounded In The Butt By My Book "Pounded In The Butt By My Book 'Pounded In The Butt By My Own Butt'"'"

i wish there was a Veeky Forums-approved literature trove in da archive

So are these all the same book with the name of the protagonist's gay lover find-and-replaced to fit the title, or what?

look up the author in amazon it's great.

>nothing but peter jackson LotR trilogy + Star Wars 4
You live under a rock, but have peeked out and seen the light reflecting off the grass

>LotR/Hobbit books + Star Wars 1 through 6 + Any two live action Star Trek series
You have permission to call yourself a nerd now. Welcome to the club.

>Add any three Lovecraft stories plus The Call of Cthulhu
A little better.

>Add Robert E. Howard's Conan stories or actual Arthurian myth
Now you actually understand something about sword and sorcery, and what heroism means.

>Consume all media listed in the "advised reading"/Inspiration/good-to-read section of your roleplaying game's manual
This will work wonders. Now you have a real handle on what sort of game you're playing.

>Higher education or work experience relevant to the roleplaying game's lore
With the right awareness and motivation, you can reach and find greatness

Everyone interested in stories should read the epic of gilgamesh.
It is a good baseline of what humanity has always been doing in stories.

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I feel like such a contrarian hipster when I tell people my favorite Disney films were Treasure Planet, Atlantis, and Black Cauldron.

So where does having read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "White Company" novels while a teenager fit into your scheme of things?

How do you think I feel when I have to tell them that my top three are Beauty & the Beast, Treasure Planet, and Frozen?

Mistborn was pretty good. Currently going through Stormlight Archive and it seems just as good, if not better. Besides that

this movie is based and idc what anyone says

>Should every RPG player read
Lol, as if I could get my players to read anything more than their fucking character sheet.

But they were great! contrarian, I dont know. Hipster? Certainly. Most normies dont know those movies.

>So where does having read Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "White Company" novels while a teenager fit into your scheme of things?

It's outside of my experience.

That's what makes me think he might be a computer.

THE FUCKING RULEBOOK FOR THE GAME WE'RE PLAYING.

God DAMN IT.

He's extremely arrogant, in the most boorish way an artist can be. He considers pretty much all fantasy literature escapist kitsch and especially hates Tolkien with a passion. The problem is that his substitute for said fantasy literature has no depth of it's own. His "point" is painfully obvious and lacks any nuance or maturity from the writer. Ironically enough he is much more black and white than Tolkien could ever be. Then there's his general critcism of Tolkien. He, like most Tolkien critics, critique Tolkien with attacking strawmen constructed from Tolkien imitator. He has never read Tolkien (and I don't mean this hyperbolically, the man has never read Tolkien. This is what every Tolkien man thinks when they read his criticisms. He hasn't read them. He only attacks strawmen).

So he is hated because he is the very definition of the word hack. He's an arrogant hack as well. And he attacks the most beloved fantasy writer with poor arguments, that in the end just feel like trolling.

My top three are all Fantasia.

Moderately surprised nobody has brought up Sir Pratchett's work.

It's understandable that people might forget.

I don't have a satanic enough image of carlos to represent this.

patrician mah dude. Fritz Lieber plus all that tolkein shit equals right mix for most dnd!

How do you know he hasn't read Tolkien? Deconstructing Tolkien, even (ad arguendo) in a straw-manny way, doesn't suggest that he is ignorant of Tolkien's work.

>Treasure Island SHOULD be required reading for everyone, RPG player or not. And then required viewing is Muppet Treasure Island and Treasure Planet, which are the two best film adaptations. They're not loyal by any means to the raw text, but they are loyal to the spirit.

Here. Add this to the list: youtube.com/watch?v=QKRG7PF73UA

>something about the name Israel Hands has always unnerved me and made me nervous
>something about the name Israel Hands
>(((Israel))) Hands

>something about the name (((Israel))) Hands has always unnerved me and made me nervous

I would definitely consider Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit required reading for RPG players, DMs, in particular, should be required to read The Silmarillion.

The rule books

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This sort of worries me.

It’s a bit like coming into a forum and finding people complaining about how dry and tedious the Harry Potter series is. Okay, fine, nobody has to read Harry Potter. But, man, if you find it hard to read, that’s... well, it’s worrying.

If LotR is a slog, I didn’t notice. Alright, maybe I’m in the minority. But that’s scary, in a Nicholas Calloway “The Shallows” kind of way.

>Should every RPG player read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Conan and so on at least once in their lives?
As long as they don't have to actually finish LotR. I tried to get through that shit three times and never quite managed to get through The Two Towers, which is where dry writing and terrible pacing meet stupid stupid shit. I recognize the detailed world-building he does, as well as the obvious influence he's had (which is why I kept trying to make it through the trilogy), but the guy is a terrible fucking storyteller. The Hobbit's better because it's targeted younger and is a fun romp in comparison, but it's still pretty stiff. I really want to like Tolkien more than I do, but I think that mostly comes down to wishing Tolkien lived up to the hype.

Anyway, I'd add A Wizard of Earthsea and the core Elric saga to your list. Also a smattering of Jack Vance could be helpful for folks into D&D.

>Seen the movies. Don't need to read anything.
I realize this is probably bait, or at least I hope it is, because The Hobbit movies were terrible, Conan was great but not very reflective of the stories, and LotR, well... okay, maybe those are okay. I mean, I don't feel like they really give you a great idea of what's in the books, but at least they weren't like watching paint dry.

Eh, there's some points where it gets fairly dry, like when he starts describing mundane geography at length. I wouldn't describe it as a slog myself, but I can at least see how someone with less patience might.

>"The Phoenix on the Sword"
I wasn't a big fan of this one.

>"The Queen of the Black Coast"
This is definitely a good one.

>"The People of the Black Circle"
Another good one.

I haven't made it to the last three yet.

I will say that while I definitely like elements of Conan, it's maybe a bit too pulpy for my taste. I don't really sink into it and am never on the edge of my seat. I like the setting, but we don't tend to delve into the characters very much, and Conan, himself, is honestly one of the least interesting things about his stories.

>Anyway, I'd add A Wizard of Earthsea and the core Elric saga to your list. Also a smattering of Jack Vance could be helpful for folks into D&D.
Oh, and The Odyssey (or at least the third of it in which he's trying to get back home) and Beowulf. Also, a smattering of 1001 Nights stories might be good.

That's all for fantasy. If you're doing a sci-fi RPG, that's a whole different list of books, starting with Dune.

>Should every RPG player read the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Conan and so on at least once in their lives?
I imagine that's only suggested if fantasy is their drug of choice.

>Sir Pratchett
imo, the tone of discworld is much closer to what my play sessions end up as. it's about fun.

thank God my players don't read Stephen King, because a lot of my shit is wholesale ripping off.

Saddens me to know few if anyone here try to make a epic tolkien level campaign, i mean it wouldnt be your classic "adventurers meet at tavern" but it have so many possibilities, also, epic fantasies are the best.

His criticism reeks of it. At best he's skimmed through it or read summaries.

>pseudoscience

>If LotR is a slog, I didn’t notice.
It depends on how much patience you have for worldbuilding details in a novel. As a story, it doesn't flow well. The Hobbit does. LoTR doesn't.

>Muppet Treasure Island
Personally I think it's the best of any adaptation, simply because it recognizes that the core story beats are what's important, and then throws in the absolute best of the post Henson material for the Muppets. Falling asleep watching Dune and listening to this movie's soundtrack did give me the best Muppet movie never made though: Muppet Dune.
>Tell me of the waters of your swamp, Kermie

The Player Handbook.

>Muppet Dune

Dear Sweet Jesus I didn't know I needed this, but now I do. With Sam the AMERICAN Eagle as the Emperor.

>[after a long, tense meeting with the Spacing Guild]
>"Weirdos..."

Who would be Vladimir Harkonen? Rabaan? Feyd-Rautha?

>but I can at least see how someone with less patience might

I have read the entire, unabridged Complete History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Henry Gibbon. While I'll grant it wasn't all in one sitting, but was rather over the course of a month or two, I nevertheless feel I am not lacking in patience by any means.

Lord of the Rings nevertheless comes across as a slog. Like I said, significant portions of the book just feel like they don't really need to be there, nor do they add anything. Or certain characters. Early on, in Fellowship. Before the Hobbits actually reach Bree.

You know of who I speak.

I was going for the unified Sesame Street/Muppets bit, so I was thinking Count Von Count as the Baron (Two! Two Atreides in the Desert! Ah! Ah! Ah!), Animal as Rabban, and Scooter as Feyd-Rautha. Also Gonzo and Rizzo as Gurney and Halleck, in the finest Muppet tradition.

They should, but LOTR isn't that good.

Except nobody can be Lady Jessica but Miss Piggy (Chani is sidelined far too much for Miss Piggy to accept the role, the same goes for Princess Irulan), which means Kermit's probably Duke Leto (admittedly weird, but bear with me a second here), and with Kermit not being the leading man, there's only one option for Paul...

Gonzo. No, seriously, who else would play the spice visions properly or have the right deadpan reactions to all the kwisatz haderach prophecy stuff?

As far as the Harkonnens themselves, I'm not sure, but Beaker and Bunsen are obviously Piter and Thufir.

FUCKING THANK YOU

LOTR IS FUCKING DULL AS SHIT

Yes, I know it's a cornerstone of western fantasy, but that doesn't automagically make it good storytelling. I tried like a dozen times to get through the books but I never made it past Rivendell because Tolkein goes on for fucking CHAPTERS ON END with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENING.

Depends on what sort of game you're running. If you want to run a fantasy military campaign, pic related is an excellent read. I have also heard people here recommend Malazan Book of the Fallen.

>This sort of worries me.

I'm sure it does. You should go to Veeky Forums, there are plenty of other pseduointellectuals there who will gladly help you look down on everyone not as 'smart' as you.

He won't find a sympathetic ear there. LotR is at a middle school reading level and Veeky Forums knows this.

Gary Gygax's Appendix N: Inspirational fiction -

Anderson, Poul: THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS; THE HIGH CRUSADE; THE BROKEN SWORD
Bellairs, John: THE FACE IN THE FROST
Brackett, Leigh
Brown, Frederic
Burroughs, Edgar Rice: "Pellucidar" series; Mars series; Venus series [I add Tarzan to this]
Carter, Lin: "World's End" series
de Camp, L. Sprague: LEST DARKNESS FALL; THE FALLIBLE FIEND; et al
de Camp & Pratt: "Harold Shea" series; THE CARNELIAN CUBE
Derleth, August
Dunsany, Lord
Farmer, P. J.: "The World of the Tiers" series; et al
Fox, Gardner: "Kothar" series; "Kyrik" series; et al
Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
Lanier, Sterling: HIERO'S JOURNEY
Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
Lovecraft, H. P.
Merritt, A.: CREEP, SHADOW, CREEP; MOON POOL; DWELLERS IN THE MIRAGE; et al
Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS; "Hawkmoon" series (esp. the first three books)
Norton, Andre
Offutt, Andrew J.: editor of SWORDS AGAINST DARKNESS III
Pratt, Fletcher: BLUE STAR; et al
Saberhagen, Fred: CHANGELING EARTH; et al
St. Clair, Margaret: THE SHADOW PEOPLE; SIGN OF THE LABRYS
Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
Vance, Jack: THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al
Weinbaum, Stanley
Wellman, Manley Wade
Williamson, Jack
Zelazny, Roger: JACK OF SHADOWS; "Amber" series; et al


I ALSO ADD:

Thieves' World
The Thief of Llarn
Earthsea Trilogy
Le Morte d'Arthur
The Once and Future King
Firelord (an Arthur story)
The Worm Ouroboros
The Deed of Paksenarrion Trilogy
Guardians of the Flame series
Trailingsword series
MYTH, INC series
Anne McAffrey's PERN series
Simon Green -- Hawk and Fisher

There isn't much "worldbuilding" in LotR. The infodumps, contrary to memetic belief, are mostly confined to the infodump appendices. The setting is mostly unexplained in the actual text, which is one big reason why LotR's influence on the genre is so shallow despite being widespread. It does have some issues with pacing early on and near the end due to things like Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire, but when he's not trying to pander to his kids or soapboxing at inappropiate places, making a story "flow" is one of Tolkien's strongest points,

yeah, I do feel Military Fantasy books like Black Company and the Warhammer books, are unique experience compared to generic fantasy adventure.

Now I gotta read this, I really want to know who the Gubbings were.

hedge knight is the best thing blobby's ever put his name on.

>As a story, it doesn't flow well.

It does, it's just paced like an ancient epic poem rather than a modern novel. Which means that it's got a narrow audience. People who act like it's a bad novel because of it are wrong, but people who act like it's bizarre that people would find it hard to finish because of it's pacing are dense. I always tell people not to worry if they didn't like it, because it wasn't up to modern sensibilities when it was written and sure as hell isn't now.

I hope my players would at least read fucking rulebooks

Black Company has made my games less Good Vs. Evil and more Us Vs. Them. My players like it better that way.

What's wrong with Jung? I've planned to read up on his Archetypes stuff in the near future.

I can find almost nothing on this book. The main character is a priest and poet who goes up to the tors, where the Gubbings live. The Gubbings are either super evil people who kidnap and torture people or aliens who kidnap and torture people.

Yes :) Average smut with hot elves. Look the others I posted below.

I never read it so I can't help you there.

Not him, but you should. Great material for defining and planning gods.

The thing is that he's not wrong but isn't right either. Science requires replicable results. Psychoanalysis is a deeply individual endeavor which must be suited to the pacient. It also deals with unconscious aspects which are even more difficult to define in scientific terms. Take the problems drugs and medicines might have with a single individual as oposed tot he overall intended effect and multiply by 100. It is, so far, quite unlike science because of this.

That said, of all the psychological models, Jung's is the only one with both reach and depth, outperforming Freud's (depth but dependent on western society) and cognitive (reach but refuses the unsconcious) models in that regard.

Council of Elrond is the best chapter of the LOTR you huge faggot