Before new age faggots imported Eastern concepts like mana, prana, qi, etc, what did Western magicians use as MP?

Before new age faggots imported Eastern concepts like mana, prana, qi, etc, what did Western magicians use as MP?

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Isn't mana from the Bible?
It sort of make it from the east. But still.

Hiw about spiritual animals and xananistic stuff?

They didn't. Western magicians didn't cast spells at all, they just knew more than you.

Like, a Rabbi doesn't make a Golem using MAGICK. He makes a Golem by being wise and knowledgeable enough to be able to perform a crude mimickery of God creating Adam from dirt. A shitty copy, sure, but in theory a really, really smart Rabbi could make a Golem that could talk and think like a man. The reason Golem stories usually end badly for the creator is because God doesn't like it when man steps too close to his domain, because God is kind of a jerk like that.

That's manna, and it's a magical food. Mana is a Polynesian thing.

That's manna, which is completely different. Mana is a Maori concept IIRC.

I can't recall any particular energy source from western works pre-influencing. You were just good enough to do something, or else had someone who was and owed you a favor. I'm not very well-versed, though, so I could be wrong.

I see. Until now, My life was a lie. I now see the truth.

Thank you for clarifying it, user.

There wasn't.

Traditional Western magic was ritual magic. You drew the sacred symbols and spoke the spell and slit the goat's throat, and that was that. Magic done.

Nothing. Their conception of magic for the most part was something outside of oneself. You had stuff like Odic force, but even those were really modern.
>56221839
This. Magic in eastern and eastern influenced works tends to be an inherent part of the caster, much closer to what we'd call a Psychic Power in the west.

>Mana is a Maori concept IIRC.

It's basically a thing for all of Polynesia.

I don't know why I don't have this saved. I think I last saw it in a thread that was discussing the Maori, and that's what made me think of them first.

>what did Western magicians use as MP?

Reagents, Rituals, Runes, and pre-packaged Miracles.
Anything from throwing bones and shiny stones to predict events, carving up and smoking animal sacrifices, etching a glyph into a big standing stone, or literally just asking God(s) for help.

There wasn't any sort of vague, weird, intangible 'energy' just laying in peoples bodies: magic was produced by method, through the power of certain words, or given by God themselves.

It's worth noting that virtually everybody says "manna" when they're referring to mana. Said properly, mana should rhyme with Juana, not Hanna. At this point, however, the wrong way of saying it is so predominant that it's basically just lingual drift.

>rhyme with Juana, not Hanna
Those names rhyme with each other the way I say them. I'm not anglo, though.

Mana and Juana rhyme with sauna, fauna, Ghana, and Lana (Lang). The first syllable rhymes with pawn, dawn, and fawn, while the first syllable of manna and Hanna rhymes with pan, ran, and van.

Nobody used "MP", faggot.

Pneuma

>rhyme with sauna
So it's pronounced maúna?

It didn't had anything like that.

lmaoing @ you're life

Odin casted from Semen apparently

>The reason Golem stories usually end badly for the creator is because God doesn't like it when man steps too close to his domain, because God is kind of a jerk like that.
Not on jewish literature.

MP is short for 'magic point' anyways. Unless you think magicians have an entire army of military police at their behestto do the things a spell's supposed to do.

I have never read anything about it besides this book.

>So it's pronounced maúna?
Uh... it's pronounced mä-nə. I'm not sure what sound aú represents.

>(((Greenberg)))
Oh vey

I always thought the traditional pronunciation for 'mana' was "Maw-Naw".

Magic points you expend to cast spells was one of the worst additions into fantasy.

Winner. It's pneuma. Or vita. Or or Orgone.

>Orgone
>originally proposed in the 1930s by Wilhelm Reich

>Before new age faggots imported Eastern concepts like mana, prana, qi, etc
What? You're funny. That was weebs, new age faggots who actually practice don't use those things.

Magic is psychology, setting yourself or another person into a specific state of mind, psyching yourself up and a small-to-moderate amount of drugs and physical therapy. We use mysticism because it sounds cool and back in more superstitious times it gave the illusion of authority from a higher power because retarded people with positions of power think authority can be assumed or demanded and not lose its merit or that those without artificial authority within equally artificial social constructs like governments were below consultation.

>inb4 bloo bloo 'legitimate authority figure or some other garbage'
You'll notice I said "retarded people with positions of power", not "people with positions of power, which invariably makes them retarded". If you're going to argue authoritarianism as a virtue in and of itself go the board that's for that and I'll kindly ignore that you exist like you rightly deserve.

Mah-nuh.

It was heavily based upon calling upon angels and the names of god. And even before Christianity, Jewish magic was actually quite popular among gentile Roman occultists. You'd have ritual bowls with the names of Apollo, Azazal and Asrael on them.

In any case the magic was more based upon one's state of grace and purity then upon MP.

Just fucking use IPA

Ah, Satanists.
When you're ashamed of your copy of Atlas Shrugged, but not ashamed of the gaudy gold jewelry.

nəʊ

Nothing. They just did what they wanted. Eastern faggots invented fake magic sauce as an excuse why they were always useless when you needed them

*slurps

I've never heard anyone refer to mana as "manna". It's local to you, user.

Crowley used MP all the time. You should have seen the size of his mana bar.

There were some concepts like animus, pneuma, and ka, but nothing that would be a 1-to-1.

There is an epic poem where drunken Loke comes to a feast and basically starts a rap battle with the other gods. Odin calls Loke a Furry and Loke insults him back calling him the viking equivalent of a power bottom. It's named Lokasenna and it is is weird shit.

>with sauna, fauna, Ghana
The third word doesn't rhyme with the first two, at least in Britbong English

Runic inscriptions, Herbs, Entrails and drunken/hallucinogenic-induced trances done at holy places through rituals.

The "au" vowel in "sauna" is pronounced like the one in "rowdy". Ya fuckin knobheads.

This guy is actually correct
youtube.com/watch?v=R7VehkA042Y

Has any decent source? Like, you know, something a bit older?
Okay, but it has nothing to do with the semen thing

Faith. Which, DEUS VULT-ing aside, can be pretty interesting as a mechanic. I imagine this would be a system where magic and moral alignment aren't separate entities, but more or less synonyms. It functions on a Medieval assumption that God had a tendency to listen to the righteous more than the unrighteous, and that saints could intercede on God's behalf (this is also why some monestaries were drowning in money: kings and nobles wanted them to pray for all the enemies they'd kill on a regular basis).

Most people would be neutral and therefore notice nothing of either benificial or harmful magic. The more and more depraved you are (degeneracy), the more and more you draw demonic influences to yourself and the more and more you become capable of what becomes witchcraft. From the lowly mystic whose beginning perversion allows her to summon small imps to the cardcarrying devil worshippers who can summon entire demonic armies. On the other hand righteousness (faith) brings you more in the favor of God. For the 'merely' kinda righteous this becomes noticable in wounds recovering faster, being able to shrug off otherwise lethal diseases and just being a bit better at everything. When you reach the level of a living saint you can summon angelic hosts and become capable of what the heathens would describe as "magic", but you know better: they're miracles.

We'd probably have to replace God with some kind of generic "the Creator" or whatever, but it would be an interesting alternative to mana or spellslot based systems. It would also serve to justify the ruling classes to a large extent (which serves the "all nobles are kind and well-meaning unless they're part of the evil empire" narrative): the most mighty are the most righteous and the most favored, or they are the most depraved and the ones demonic entities love the most.

So being a fag gives you special powers? Wich method is superior, going full Incubus, or going full Odin?

>a spell that when cast not only fully replenishes all your mp, but also summons a shit ton of MP from the Plane of MP

Because sometimes a simple "Fuck You." to a bunch of marauding murderhobos who won't get the fuck off of your front lawn isn't enough.

Motherfucker, post that shit. I wanna read it.

a part of the incantation to open such a gate is: "COURT MARTIAL"

You're basically describing aquelarre's system, in which executions of both witchcraft and religious interventions are ritual magic as described by

>Wrong English
There’s your problem.

Vis, bro. Ever played Ars Magica?

Minnesotan here. For us "sauna" doesn't fit that set. I think it's the Finnish influence here. We have something more like an actual [a]+[u] dipthong in there.

Nor in the East Coast dialects in the US. Does in western US and Canada for the most part, though. It's the caught-cot merger there.

Ok, first: I've never heard anyone say it 'manna,' it's always 'mana,' with a short n.

Second: That's not "basically just lingual drift," that's the definition of lingual drift.

etext.old.no/Bugge/lokasenn.html

It isn't really faith, it is knowledge and will or cunning.

A Renaissance magician could do magic through alchemy, which is knowledge of nature, or through angelic or demonic spirits, who are forced to do his bidding through names, which in their world-view is also nature, because all of nature is created and given a True identity by the creator, which is reflected in true language, e.g. Enochian. Magic is science, knowledge.

Faith requires no knowledge, but surrender to who knows and does for you what they know to be right, irregardless of your own wants and desires.

>cites wikipedia
>no Eddas cited
LMAO

>They didn't. Western magicians didn't cast spells at all, they just knew more than you.

This is what Veeky Forums literally believes now.

We could have stopped, but we didn't listen.

To be fair tough Odin IS accused of being a faggot by Loki. The seidr/shamanism/transexual connection is pretty estabilished, tough I don't dare to know what is implied there by crazy women studies folks.

>Loki, the God of treachery, said it so it must be true

In the Lokasenna, everyone knows it's true, exactly like it's true what Odin said, that Loki became a mare and was fucked.

Read any book on the subject, user.

Semen was believed to have magical properties by many ancient cultures. It does not seem unlikely that a god heavily associated with magic would suck a little bit of cock from time to time.

That said, if you wanna pull that card, Óðinn is also a trickster god and a bit of a dickhead in the Eddas, so I don't think his word is necessarily any more valid.

I'm not going to buy your book. Stop advertising.

Quimtessence. It was what made Western alchemy work.

Ever play Elona/Elona+? Their spellcasting system, Vanicians spellcasting system, or whatever, which was based off this book series that I forget the name of.

The fun thing is that this is kind of how a related kind of viking magic worked. The traditional magic of Finnish myth consisted of singing songs that described the nature of things, giving the singer-wizard power over them. For example, in the Finnish national epic,Kalevala, the god and culture hero Väinämöinen confronts his rival Joukahainen and for example makes him sink into the earth up to his shoulders with his song.

Also, there was magic in the form of godly artfiacts which were just things awesome and useful in ways beyond the ken of man. The Kalevala also fetured the Sampo, which is a gizmo (seriously, no one knows what it looks like, except it had a colorful lid that rocked)
that created endless amounts of flour, salt and coins. As you´d expect, it was lost and it´s the reason why the seas are salty.

In Norse mythlogy Moljnir returned to Thor´s hand whe he threw it and never missed its target and it also changed size That was it. Glepnir, the chain the gods used to bind Fenris the wolf was made by dwarves out of the sound of a cat's footfall, the beard of a woman, the roots of a mountain, the sinews of a bear, the breath of a fish and the spittle of a bird, and it was as thin as a ribbon, and yet it held until Ragnarok, and grew stronger the more the wolf struggled.
That´s also magic, simple things with great abilties.

It's a "being nice > being right" sort of story.

The will of the fucking lord our God, and absolutly nothing else, you heathen.

They didn't. It was a basically seen as a way of bargaining or making contracts which was combined with actual practical knowledge.

As a magician, you would make rituals which would be how to cause certain effects in the world, this might involve making bargains with spirits, etc or filling people's shoes with shit, or turning things into other things through chemical reactions.

Nah they casted spells all right. Big fucking rituals. Western magic was all quite rigid.

Western magic seems more powerful than Eastern magic in theory.

It drew upon the universe while the other focused more inward.

Mana is the Maori world for respect/authority. It's not for casting spells. Just a coincidence

they drew energy from symbolistic objects instead of expending their own life force. duh.

Given how a lot related to interactions with spiritual entities, Charisma would literally be the most important rather than a dump stat.
Int/Wis would only supplement.

>what did Western magicians use as MP?

Money

Rituals, blood sacrifices, mystical sites, spells per day...

wtf... do spoilers not work anymore?

So ancient Sweden wasn't that different from today.

try ctrl+s

Well in Europe you were either a muscle wizard with a high life force or some dude who relied on rituals, alchemy and making enchanted gear.

>what did Western magicians use as MP?
Demons. Pretty much all western magic involves summoning a spirit to do something for you unless it's herblore or alchemy or whatever that's just a primitive science.

Didn't Odin drink the semen from hanged men to fuel his magical powers?

no one knows.

If you saw just how hung they were, you would too. Beats taking a break every 15 minutes to recharge your spells.

It's not so much cast spells, but some ritual shit to call on some pagan god to pull off some feats for you.

I've always wondered why last names with the words "berg," "stein," and all that sort of shit automatically marks someone as Jewish. Wasn't all that proprietary of their original language at first?

No, thats not the thing, the thing is that he was a sexually active mage, so, he lost too much semen and he needed to 'refill' his reserve. You should really look it up, the concept its kind of funny

All people with those elements in their last name is just a logical fallacy, not all with those names are Jewish. Emperor Joseph II of Austria-Hungary issued the Edict of Tolerance in 1782, which kind of recognized religious freedom for Jews. Soon after, he made them all adopt German last names.

Most of them just took the name of their local lords for the lack of a better idea. Because most ethnic minorities tend to clump together geographically, it just came about that way. For example, Johann Gottleib Goldberg, who Bach wrote the Goldberg Variations for, was not a Jew.

Anyway, I suspect ancient forms of magic worldwide was just people getting high off shit.

There's no primary source at all about drinking semen unsurprisingly.

Nor does Loke call Odin the equivalent of a "power-bottom" in his senna, or even hints at him being argr (in norsemen law that was enough to be labeled an outlaw to be killed with impunity if done without proof), instead he insinuated that Odin went around dressed as the lowest of men like beggars because in reality his nature was that base and then went on to call him womanly (but not effeminate which would have crossed lines) since he was womanly enough to practice their craft of Sejd.

>being named Goldberg
>not a Jew

what a waste

Is Aquelarre still published? Where do I get it, PDF or print?

Please follow this man's words for he speaks wisdom.

Eastern magic is about using your will to shape some kind of energy from within yourself to create an effect.

Western magic is about using symbols and the natural energies of the world to shape the energy all around us to create an effect.

Western wizards don't run out of mana, they only run out of ingredients. You can't fireball if your sulfur pouch is empty, but you can go get more sulfur.