Previously: >Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list. mtgcommander.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their decks strategy and card choices. tappedout.net
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the the internet. edhrec.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commanders color identity. manabasecrafter.com/
>or been salty scooped by a salty scooper Oh yes. I'm bad at greentexting but let me share my tale with you all. >playing Kruphix >guy on Beckett Brass steal-your-shit pirate tribal steals my commander >start targeting him to get my guy back >pirate guy complains I'm targeting him >explain to him that he shouldn't have stolen my commander if he didn't want me to target him >"It's just your commander dude, your deck can operate fine without it" >game eventually ends, switch to Edgar Markov >Olivia in opening hand with lots of acceleration, have her out turn 3 >pirate guy plays Beckett Brass >ping her just before it goes to my turn >he says he'll scoop if I steal her >look him dead in the eye >"It's just your commander dude, your deck can operate fine without it" >He scoops, makes huffing sounds, and leaves the store I lost but I still think that was my most satisfying game of commander to date.
Cameron Ortiz
>EDH in subject line despite meme >clean OP pasta >turbo-spicy commander in OP image You're lookin good, pal
Ryder Bennett
Greenpill me on hapatra - how does the snek lady work? Am I doomed to turbocombo, or does she have a grindier side I can utilize? I love her art but I don't want to just build a combo engine.
Easton Powell
is there any reason why frantic search spiked beyond "it's good card, breh"
Michael Sullivan
>been salty scooped by a salty scooper That time I ramped and tutored like a motherfucker into a Genesis Wave for 60 on turn 5
Lincoln Morris
Nice one.
Levi Nguyen
Magnificent
Elijah Watson
I would go for an even 40 lands total, with at least 30 of them being basic swamps don't worry as much about mana rocks, instead you can use cards like Bontu's Monument and Jet Medallion then use Crypt Ghast, Caged Sun, Gauntlet, Extraplanar Lens to generate tons of mana you can use this mana to power X cards like exsanguinate, which are especially effective since they can help you regain life lost to Erebos, while your opponents can't gain life while Erebos is out, making them deadlier
Bentley Reed
Reposting but
What are essential cards for this guy?
Henry Sullivan
grindy is the way to go. just find good -1/-1 counter synnergies and get that value
Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, and Yawgmoth's Will if you got the money
Jeremiah Martin
of the two tutor's which one?
about to blow 40 on something black
Carson Nguyen
daily reminder to not SCOOP LIKE A CANDY PUSSY FAGGOT
Lincoln Hall
Vampiric is objectively better since it costs 1 and is instant speed. The old printings are cheaper too.
Oliver Gonzalez
>Spiked >To like $1.20
Brody Collins
>Vampiric is objectively better since it costs 1 and is instant speed. And puts it on top of your library where Demonic lets you have it right away.
Levi Allen
Vampiric can't get something immediately without having to use some other draw effect, which neuters some of the benefit of being Instant. Sure, you'll probably have Erebos to draw it, but that means it's closer to 1BB, Pay 2 life.
Michael Rivera
Or you could just, you know, cast it during your upkeep.
Luis Martin
>1BB, Pay 2 life.
Admittedly, I would eagerly play an Instant tutor that was printed at that cost. It's a lot worse with other commanders, but Erebos does give it a certain edge.
Charles Hughes
Alright, say you cast Vampiric during your upkeep. You basically lose out on a draw and otherwise end up in pretty much the same situation as if you'd cast Demonic during you main phase. You traded a card to save 1 mana, which is not a very good deal.
Samuel Hernandez
The point is depending on the situation either Tutor could be better than the other and it's silly to say one is "strictly" or "objectively" better.
Anyway you should run both.
Levi Walker
more like $2-3 from a trusted seller in decent condition. even while $1.20 is by no means unaffordable, that was the price of a full playset for years
Jayden Ward
Yeah, and being able to use it during someone else's turn is what would usually be described as "the benefit of being an instant". You're practically agreeing with .
Alexander Powell
Asking about this user in the last thread, could you please post a list for that Adriana deck? I'm keen
Sebastian Ward
>some other draw effect You mean like your fucking draw step? >You basically lose out on a draw >By getting the exact thing you want and/or need?
Stop being bad at Magic, Veeky Forums
John Wright
people are actually arguing that vampiric tutor is bad? What the fuck?
Christopher Roberts
>people are actually arguing that vampiric tutor is bad? Yes, see >You traded a card to save 1 mana, which is not a very good deal.
Veeky Forums never fails to be head-up-ass retarded at Magic. I love you guys, but god damn.
Aaron Watson
>Vampiric basically reads: "B, pay 2 life: Draw the exact card you need" >bad
Brandon Wood
demonic>vampiric
kind of surprised there is much debate. tutoring something to your hand is hugely beneficial. obviously you can just run both and there are situations were vt is better but those situations are in the minority.
Colton Perry
He never called Vampiric bad you fucking mongoloids. He's saying it's not a "strict" upgrade from Demonic. Lightning Bolt > Shock is a strict upgrade. Demonic and Vampiric are just two very good and very similar cards.
Gabriel Lee
No, dipshit. The guy said it's objectively better than Demonic.
This is like people arguing that Necropotence is strictly better than Griselbrand or some shit. It's retardation.
Mason Anderson
>you can't tutor a miracle spell to the top to cast it for its miracle cost >you can't tutor on turn 1 as easily >you can't fix your deck for things that look at the top X cards of your library >it doesn't fit on an isochron scepter >you can't hold up removal and then demonic tutor
????????????????????????????
Bentley Turner
>genesis wave for 60 on turn 5 how even the fuck
Parker Taylor
You're retarded.
Josiah Morris
>you can't hold up removal and then demonic tutor yes but you can tutor for removal when you need it. you are starting to get into christmas land. vampiric tutor is a better proactive card but demonic tutor is a better reactive card.
if you think vampiric tutor is strictly better, it is...in formats like vintage and legacy [sic]. in edh the margins are larger and permission is easier to come by. you generally want to save your tutors for mid-late game rather than firing them off turn 1. dt is better mid-late game. the lack of reliability that you get from a singleton format also means that drawing into a tutor mid-game is a much more likely scenario.
James Bell
Yes, but it's still not objectively better than vampiric. For starters if you topdeck it you can't search for an answer you might need that turn unless you have a draw effect.
Also, it blows ass with copy effects like dualcaster or fork, when if you cast them with demonic it gets your combo and wins you the game.
Justin Butler
Everyone knows that Rune-Scarred Demon is the best tutor. Fight me.
Alexander Walker
>56225558 Here, have a (you). Maybe you'll feel better about yourself afterwards.
Tutors are however you play them. They can be played proactively or reactively. For example, Vampiric is better for reacting to what your opponents did during their turns, while Demonic is better for reacting to what they did during your turn, or predicting their actions on their next turn. Conversely, Vampiric is better at being proactive in a deck with lots of permission, because you can search for your wincon(or more answers) while holding up answers.
Holding up or bluffing removal and then vampiric tutoring isn't christmasland, it's a thing that happens all the time in my meta.
Okay. There are some situations where you can win the game faster with Demonic Tutor. There are also situations where vampiric tutor will win you the game, like where Demonic would leave you 1-2 mana short from a game-winning combo(or delay you a turn), but you can vampiric on your opponent's end step and combo off when you untap. Both of these situations don't show up often enough to be a reliable comparison.
Josiah Sullivan
Rune-Scarred Demon is like little baby.
Jace Bell
Yeah but Razaketh will be banned soon
Sebastian Foster
...
James Garcia
This is my list. It still has room for improvement, but it's a start. I play a lot of heavy-black cards, like phyrexian obliterator, reiver demon and other stuff that costs double or tripple black tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-08-17-devotion-to-black/
Joshua Rogers
Who else /grouphate/ ?
Brayden Garcia
I really want to. I'd need to get a mogis alter like that, though, first.
Michael Bennett
I highly recommend it, tho I warn you will be the target in every game.
James Carter
This is all in comparison to Demonic Tutor, user. You're objectively down one card compared to if you had cast Demonic.
Hudson Fisher
Also, if someone can force you to shuffle with something like Chaos Warp, they can blowout a Vampiric Tutor.
Josiah Diaz
Yeah, and they can discard your hand with several different effects, too. Demonic Tutor isn't infallible.
Ethan Phillips
I'm seeing playsets for $2-3.
Luis Gutierrez
If they can force a discard, they could very likely force a discard on Vampiric after you draw it too, user.
Hunter Hall
what's the deal with reptiles being a symbol of evil? satan was a snek?
James Williams
>wheels don't exist and aren't fairly common effects >sorcery speed discard doesn't exist
Robert Russell
Nobody is trying to say either one is infallible, it's just a conversation about both cards' different fallibilities, and simply pointing out Vampiric has a notable fallibility in one more zone than Demonic.
Gavin Baker
Yes. The snake that tempted eve to eat the apple was a satan. Also, many cultures perceive snakes as evil on account of their limbless and unnatural physic as well as their venomous capabilities
Jonathan Sullivan
Deckbox: What is there around? besides pic related which is pratical but not sexy I would want something in leather, like the Ultrapro x75 cards
Matthew Roberts
Am I a monster for playing turbofog Rashmi?
Hunter Mitchell
I'm trying to make 6 mono-color decks that don't have a ton of overlap in play style. What might be my options for each? I already have built: Zada token buffs Geth control
I think I'll do either Sakashima clones or jalira for blue, and yisan for green, but what would be fun stuff for White and Colorless? I have no clue on those and I could use some help.
Samuel Baker
I use Boulders. They aren't incredibly fashionable but they save a lot of space. Also, 80+ boulders will not hold 100 single sleeved matte dragon shields, but will hold 100 single sleeved nonmatte dragon shields. Learned this the hard way. Another option for blue is Azami combo. I think the polymorphist deck would overlap with Yisan too much, IMO.
For White, I still recommend Sram, Senior Edificer as a voltron deck.Or you could try to play it as aetherflux storm, but that may be super unreliable.
Oliver Powell
I was looking at Sram, I was also looking at Avacyn. Is she any good? Also do you know any good colorless decks? I don't have a lot of money so budget is best.
Jacob Cox
I'm with , Sram Voltron with Aetherflux Resevior as an alt wincon. Colorless can just be good ol ramp into fatties with your prefered eldrazi at the helm.
Mason Brooks
Who would her commander be?
Adam Perez
I agree with you when it comes to comparisons like Regrowth vs. Noxious Revival, but being able to tutor anything lets you offset the card disadvantage with ease. Vampiric Tutor could've read "Discard your hand" instead of "You lose 2 life" and it would still be playable by tutoring Necropotence, Reforge the Soul or just about anything blue.
Jaxson Reed
What about these? Do they hold 100x double-sleeved cards?
John Allen
I like playing high powered decks, but every time I play with my friends (usually 4-5 man games) it just turns into archenemy, and I get hated out and lose. I honestly don't even want to play with them anymore because every game turns out the same way.
Any suggestions for more under the radar commanders that I can use to not paint a big red target on myself? I'd rather not depower any decks that I use for more competitive games at my lgs.
Ethan Sullivan
I like ultimate guard's deckboxes. I use the arkhives because I tend to bring way too many decks, but I've seen people use the single deck-boxes as well, and they look neat. I do protect individual decks with the boulders, because it just so happens that exactly 4 of them fit in 1 arkhive
Thomas Thompson
Someone post oathofanon.jpg
Christopher Murphy
Phenax with lots of control and mill as a main win-con. There are multiple cards referencing psychic abilities in mill.
Oliver Lopez
Played a game last night on UW Taigam where the first damage was dealt to me turn 10, and when I won I was yelled at for playing a too powerful deck.
Also Taigam is the bomb, and a great counter to salt scoops since he just has to attack, not deal damage. The best is even when you're very open with your rebounds people still miss them, especially wraths.
Logan Robinson
Embrace the archenemy role and go full out superpower. Cackle about your plans to destroy them off, mock every play they make, and drop winter orb.
Or just choose whatever derpy non-blue/non-evil commander you want. I advise something like Tristani or Marath. You have good cards, but can play back and not seem to threatening. Make sure your commander has no antagonistic triggers or demands damaging others and it should work out eventually. It'll take a few games at a lower power go make people stop going straight for your throat, but they'll start squabbling among themselves eventually.
once that happens bring out the winter orb again
Nathan Peterson
Thanks for the advice user
Elijah Collins
My playground is exclusive edh but would it be worth doing an Iconic Masters sealed draft? The list seems to have some really strong commons/ uncommons but are they edh playable and worth the price?
Isaac Flores
>sealed boosters >worth the price The answer will always be no. The only reason a normal player would buy boxes is to play draft.
Nicholas Wright
God, this Kevin Spacey news is so fucking depressing to me. He is my favorite actor...
Jaxon Garcia
>Worth the price Personally I never feel like buying packs in any form is worth the price unless the whole group wants to do the draft.
At my LGS the store owner will on a whim snag hard to find boxes of sets if he can get them below cost for drafts people want to do. I'm personally waiting for him to find OG Zendikar. I loved BfZ and Eldrazi, and I've heard drafting OG Zendikar was GOAT, so I'd draft that in a heart beat.
On an actually commander related note; what's a commander that can make good use of this little fucker? He's my favorite card in magic, but he doesn't have a home in any other format.
Landon Price
>The answer will always be no.
That's hardly "always" the case. The first Modern Masters had such a good average value that you were actually very likely to eventually get more than your money's worth if you opened enough of it, especially if you managed a good deal on a box.
Iconic Master's EV is actually quite high, and a lot of it is in the uncommons and rares. If you get a box and hit a Mana Drain, you're a mile ahead, but the average box will likely turn out around $200-$220 worth. If you can find one for significantly less, like $150-$170, you actually have fairly good odds on it, unlike MM17 where you were playing the Mythic lottery and then counting your fetches.
Dylan Johnson
Yeah, if you are lucky enough, every box is worth it. But no box so far had an EV higher than its usual market price, so unless you got a really good deal, it's never worth the price.
And even if you are lucky and do manage to get a good value out of it, chances are that most of the cards won't fit anywhere in your decks and you will have to spend a lot of time trying to trade those high value cards/collecting dust in your binder.
The only way to get money out of buying boxes is to literally hold on to them for a decade, and then you will spend another decade trying to sell those boxes.
Cooper Ross
>But no box so far had an EV higher than its usual market price
The EV for Iconic is around $200 and you can pick up a box for $180 off eBay today, if you felt like it.
Christian Torres
>is a zero skill game of chance worth it? No. >is a zero skill game of chance plus the novelty of one night of drafting worth it? If you and your friends like drafting, yes.
Jack Lopez
>Elder Dinosaur Highlander Hilarious. As the ancient legendary OP of yesteryear, I pass the torch on to you. You've earned the right to make an OP as you see fit.
Isaac Perez
The original Modern Masters had a crazy high value, because not even WotC really understood what sort of impact it would have. In retrospect, you could expect to open like $400 or more if you opened one today.
Anyone who bought a box of that for less than $200 made off like a bandit. I have four Chalice of the Void that I got just from drafting it three times and that's more than 3x what I paid just to draft, before I even begin mentioning that I opened both Swords, 2 Aether Vials, a Blood Moon, a foil Tooth and Nail, and a Tarmogoyf.
All that's just to say Masters sets don't behave like regular ones.
Cameron Wilson
MM17 was actually bonkers if you managed to buy a box. The ratio of high quality rares to low quality rares was skewed, but if you managed to get a good box, you're set. Something like Tarn, Catacombs, Snap and Jank almost always broke even when the rest of the cards were counted, particularly because foil inquisition of kozilek were so common. Buying individual packs was a recipe for disaster, but just wait a year, all that jazz is going up in price.
Carter Clark
Sorry, I meant EV if you buy a single box. Because especially in sets like masters, the value completely depends if you open (in this case) mana drain, or a couple of the 4 more expensive rares.
Those 5 cards are so valueable, that even if you only open 1 mana drain, and some of the expensive rares out of 5 boxes, you are getting your money back and some more.
But the thing is, if you only open 1 box, it is a lottery ticket, either you get gold or eat shit, not much in between, and the chances of eating shit are higher.
There is also another point, that I didn't point out, those values are from before its release, so just like any other product, it's expected for their values to decrease a significant amount in a week or so after its release.
Noah Cruz
That's just what I mean though. MM17 had about the same EV as Iconic Masters does now, but it had a much higher risk of wiping out on a bad box. Iconic Masters is actually a fairly safe bet, even in a single box, because it lumped its value at lower rarities. It's much more spread out, and even then you still have the chance to hit a golden ticket.
One box of Iconic is a much safer bet than one box of MM17 was.
Adam Thompson
Convince me to put door of destinies back into Edgar markov when I already have Eldrazi Monument. I feel like I more often than not just want to draw another vampire instead of door of destinies.
Carson Johnson
no
Charles Reed
It's my newest one, still tryin to optimize it but here it is!
At first I was trying to keep the creatures human and 3 or under cmc because of all those Sun Titan -type creatures. Now I've let those restrictions go tho, there's good additions in the maybeboard.
Samuel Diaz
Funny you mention MM17 as a riskier set when Iconic Masters is even more risky. From the mythics of Iconic, you are literally playing Mana drain or bust, when MM17 had Tarmogoyf, Lotv, Carvern of Souls, and Snapcaster, which all of them have pretty good value. And from the rares, Iconic has an advantage of having around 10 cards with a decent price, while MM17 only had around 8, but I would argue that it's not so bad considering that 5 of those from MM17 are fetchlands, so they are easy to fit in any deck, and even if you don't, it is easy to trade it.
I mean, of course they can't compare with MM15 that had a much smoother value curve, or original MM, which had one of the highest EV ever.
Eli Wilson
You're missing something important.
By having "value" spread out over a wide variety of cards, as more packs are open, the over all value of those cards will be lowered dramatically, and will be less likely to be raised. Let's look at Snapcaster. Right now the MM17 one is actually MORE expensive than the Innistrad one, when both were roughly around $40 American when MM17 came out, and it's trending upwards.
A variety of $10 cards from iconic masters are less likely to retain their value over time, particularly if it's things that people want, but that don't see regular play, like Serra Ascendant, or Auriok Champion. Personally, I'm just going to buy a playset of thoughtseize and work on building a legacy deck with two Chains of Mephistopheles that I found at a yardsale for pennies on the dollar, but it's not a good idea to crack this box, particularly if you actually want to move some of your cards and not just hoard them like some kind of weirdo.
Mason Harris
Although I think that in Snapcaster case, it's most likely that people prefer the ones with cooler art than the ugly guy. Since the price of lotv, tarmogoyf, and cavern are lower if they are from MM17.
Levi Gutierrez
Interestingly enough, Cavern of Souls is almost identical in price, 52.49 vs 52.25, even though the MM17 one started $5 lower than the regular one.
LotV and Goyf have had a fuckload of prints recently, and generally, they're nothing special, just very efficient at what they do.
Asher Wright
Reject the sins of the LGS!
Kevin Edwards
Looking for a dual colored control general.
GAAIV comes to mind but I plan on wiping the board a whole lot and not really building up a bunch of permanents like Aura of Silence and Crawlspace. I just prefer to keep the place clean, especially since I play against people who love to build up big boards with stuff like that.
Any suggestions?
Juan Gomez
Stop posting this. It was a novelty once, but now you're turning into a samfagging dick forcing unfunny derivative bullshit, after BEGGING some other user to make it.
Jaxson Fisher
>say you cast Vampiric during your upkeep. >not casting Vampiric on your opponents end phase
Julian Bell
I made it and turned it into Jace and Gideon. My LGS is really bad, and I miss the days of high school playing at a friend's house. EDH is the only format that people play that reminds me of that. That image helps me get back to those times.
Mason Lopez
I like green and i like Elves
Is "Guided by Nature" a good starting point?
Camden Garcia
If you want green and elves, that is a pretty good starting point. It gives a bunch of the necessary elves and some green staples. It also has some of the commander staples like sol ring, skullclamp, and commander sphere.
Jack Butler
It has the original Ezuri, so you can create your insane elf deck.
Aight, here's my list for Shirei. Main reason I'm looking to build this is because I don't have a commander deck that's based all around one stupid gimmick, so this is it. Looking for some feedback as I'm still not 100% happy with it.