I have noticed a shift in Veeky Forums's regard towards this chapter in the past few years...

>being cringey manchildren who repeat 1d4chan memes has become less popular
Have you even seen the mindless following that one youtube comedy series has gotten? The text to speech series.

It's like the "bazinga!" or 40k. I don't think quoting retarded 1d4chan shit is ever going to be "less popular" m8.

Never liked ultramarines or any other space marines.

>People who grew up in the Everything is Ultramarines era are going to be more favourable towards it than those who knew 40k before.
No, no, you have this all backwards.

The people who played 40k in the beginning already knew it was "everything is Ultramarines". In 2nd edition there was no Codex: Space Marines, it was Codex: Ultramarines, and then Codex: Angels of Death in which BA and DA were combined together because they weren't important enough to get their own book, and then Codex: Space Wolves because they are and have always been the actual snowflake Mary Sues.

The newfags who came in later around 4th got buttmad when 5th was a return to form, because Ward was a little too heavy-handed and fanboyish about it, so they went full contrarian and complained about anything to do with Ultramarines. Those are the underage fags. You are showing your young age by not knowing this.

Now that the Ward era is passed and the contrarians have gotten less vocal about it, new players come in, see the setting as it is, and like Ultramarines, because they were always likeable.

I play Ultramarines because it's a striking, iconic paint scheme. Ultras are kind of a plenty filter now as you know if the other player is making snide comments about 'smurfs' he's probably a permavirgin edge lord.

Good for you, mate.

>Ultras are kind of a plenty filter now as you know if the other player is making snide comments about 'smurfs' he's probably a permavirgin edge lord.
This exactly.

Hating on them for being the basic marines was always the hipster "I like more speshul plastic mans than you!" attitude thing to do, and it got old, until finally the backlash to those faggots outweighed the number of people committing that sort of faggotry.

>I don't think quoting retarded 1d4chan shit is ever going to be "less popular" m8.
It factually is now compared to a few years ago, friend.

Some people still think they're living in 2013 and make shitty Angry Marines memes and shit like that, but you'll note that the general sentiment is now against them.

Veeky Forums might have gotten shittier over the years in some ways, but it also seems to have matured in some ways.

>tfw play ultramarine
>tfw make smurf jokes in units' names and shit
>tfw permavirgin

I've been replaying THQ's Space Marine game and fuck me if Captain Titus isn't the coolest protagonist

He makes me like the Ultramarines because it's surprisingly well written and characterful (rage effects and warp shenanigans aside)

Not looked into tabletop since they Sigmar'd it

I think they were always fairly cool, to be honest, it's just that they were the poster chapter and everyone felt a need to be different. I personally am not sure I've seen much of a pendulum swing back to a state of it no longer being cool to bash them, but such a thing could potentially be explained by the fact that once, there was only the Space Marine codex, and that over time we've been given codices specifically for Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc., and a lot of rules for other legions' successors in the default codex on top of this. I think this has damaged some of the "I'm so out there, I play a chapter which should probably have its own rules but doesn't" factor and has made going for the "original, default" option cooler in some sense, now that it's so easy to play something else.

people didn't like them because GW were shoving Ultrasmurfs in people throats as GREATEST OF THE SPACE MRINES
Just like they are doing now with fucking Stormcast ...Wanna new starter ? STOMCAST
wanna new game ? STORMCAST !
do you want christmas bundle ? here are disspossed but Also STOMCAST ! , full yea of realase for STORMCAST . Also Ward writing didn't help with ultrasmusfs look in commiunity

It's clear you haven't because they didn't.

Agreed on Titus though.

People hated them since 2nd edition. They didn't like that they had their own codex and were used on the boxes.

Theres a great deal less heavy-handed wanking, and combined with Bobby G coming back and being a character instead of an ancestral mary sue its resulted in some complexity instead of the bland 'greatest of them all' that did exist under the wardian era. In return, most every other faction has also become more in line with them-eldar getting their death god and starting to reunify, tau jizzing gundams as big as titans, daemon primarchs doing shit, etc. Also, is right, the stormcast have also taken over the easily hated symbol of GW idiocy

To me, it seems like on the whole people have started to meme the setting less and started taking a more nuanced approach to it.

Yeah it's funny to point out how retarded the Imperium is and how they throw away lives and resources like chaff in the wind and how retarded the Mechanicus is but when you try to imagine how they work without the meme stupidity it kinda makes the setting a little better?

I personally like the idea of an Imperium and Mechanicus where super zealotry is still very much a force in setting, everyone on the whole is vastly more pragmatic or at least as much as they can be as the setting allows.

Primaris are very attractive to children, hence the growth of UM popularity.

The return of their primarch helped it too.
They want to point their sausage fingers to someone and say "these are the best guys".

Honestly never really disliked them.
>absolutely fantastic color scheme
>sweet roman aesthetic
>Straight, focused, honest, by the book attitide
>Make for exccellent poster boys since they are pretty "vanilla" and dont have some kind of snowflake lore like SW, DA, BA or GK (and I play GKs)
>Are relatable defenders of mankind
>Their name, while it seems kinda retarded sometimes (Ultramarine=Super Space Marine, even though I think its more a reference to the color ultramarine blue) has a nice ring to it, and is simple and straightforward to understand. You know what somebody says when they say "Ultramarine"

They got a lot of people doing better writing for them and working to minimise the Ward issues.

I hated them beyond anything else, all because of their horrible ham-fisted shoving down your throat as the characterless Action Heroes of the Warhammer world.

But now I think it's possible to do them well see: the Space Marine videogame, so I'm ambivalent towards them.

You mean
>horrible blue everywhere (worst colour)
>BORING Roman aesthetic (literally the foundation of western culture, so it's the blandest choice they could make)
>Bland hero-protagonists of the universe, everything revolves around them becuz they sell the most
>Are poster boys
>Are completely unrelatable due to their absurdly straight-laced, almost satirical heroism
>Name is literally a pun (this is a good point)
Christ, I'm okay with them now, but I hated them. I was a Custodes special snowflake though, so what do I know.

I blame the influx of low effort normies nuGames Workshop has attracted.

>being this much of a pleb

>Being less than 18

>projecting

Do you also worship Spartans and samurai?

Never liked the "Best of the best fullstop" tagline that was plastered on them, since it diminishes the achievements of your dudes. But after I read through the battle for Maccrage and their 30k lore I appreciated them much more for constantly picking themselves up and learning from failures.

Invictarus Suzerain and Ultramarine breachers are also incredible models that I badly wish weren't legion specific.

Matt Ward stopped being responsible for writing all their lore, and games like SPACE MARINE featured them as actual characters.

>horrible blue everywhere (worst colour)
There is literally nothing wrong with blue.
>BORING Roman aesthetic (literally the foundation of western culture, so it's the blandest choice they could make)
>Are poster boys
>Are completely unrelatable due to their absurdly straight-laced, almost satirical heroism
Opinions on the level of an emotionally troubled teenager.

>There is literally nothing wrong with blue.
Fucking Bluefags, why don't you shove blue paint up your arse, oh wait you already are.
>Opinions on the level of an emotionally troubled teenager.
Romaboos move on. This is a good-taste neighbourhood.

I didn't even realise actual humans existed who could relate to the troubles of a 1940s comic-book goody boy hero.

Smurfs are good when they're done Titus and Leandros style. But, that's not how most of the lore went.

>>neogaf

What

For me I think it was the Titus game being pretty damn good, and reading Know No Fear a few years after. Never really hated them to begin with, but that certainly turned them around. Also, as someone else brought up earlier, as an Amerifat, it's kinda nice to have a straight laced, by the literal book, sensible group. Especially when it feels more and more everything else outside is going to utter shit.

Yeah now that you mention it, Ultramarines do seem like Muricabait. Brits usually go for the scrappy, edgy anti-hero types, like Chaos. At least, their writers do.

>horrible blue everywhere (worst colour)
Color. Personal taste. I'll never judge such a thing and I won't blame you for that.
>BORING Roman aesthetic (literally the foundation of western culture, so it's the blandest choice they could make)
Clearly knights, vikings, angels or templars are not overused aesthetic choices, no no... But again it's only a matter of personal taste and inspiration. Roman Antiquity has always been my schtick so I have a lot of ideas about what the UM can be in the context of the 30k/40k setting beyond the usual "lol crests + pteruges + -us names = Romans". It would be the same for anybody fond of Vikings, Mongols, Renaissance, etc.
>Bland hero-protagonists of the universe
They are level-headed xenophobic fascists in an empire of hardcore xenophobic fascistic biggots. We wouldn't call them "heroes" in our own universe, they are just less stupidly retarded than the rest of the Imperium.
>Are poster boys
Granted. That's obnoxious even for UM players.
>Are completely unrelatable due to their absurdly straight-laced, almost satirical heroism
>I assume you hate the Space Wolves too then. Their "you-think-we-are-bloodthirsty-barbarians-but-in-fact-we-are-so-much-more-noble-and-badass-than-you-ololol-don't-care-about-the-Inquisition" stuff is no way better.
>Name is literally a pun (this is a good point)
Agree. Too bad so much people forget that Ultramar means "beyond the sea" so their name is more than just a pun about "super marines" and Smurfish color scheme.
>Custodes snowflake
Bear the gold of our King with pride my brother !

>Talking this much shit.
>rewriting history, the post.

>Bobby G coming back and being a character instead of an ancestral mary sue its resulted in some complexity instead of the bland 'greatest of them all' that did exist under the wardian era.
The absolute fucking state of this board.

>People hated them since 2nd edition.

So basically exactly when the game started to appeal to kids.

Ultramarines were featured on the non-chapter specific boxes since late 1st edition and were heavily promoted in 1st edition Epic.

Even in Rogue Trader rulebook marine description scheme featured Ultramarine instead of Crimson Fist.

Vikings and templars are bad too. Just not SO bad. Remember, it's not straight-up about the aesthetic -- it's also about combining that aesthetic with the bland mcbland lore.
>We wouldn't call them "heroes" in our own universe
Except we would. That's how they were described and portrayed in the real world, i.e. in the lore. Because they were the poster boys -- they were (supposed to be) the easiest part of the lore to grasp, the mildest part, the part that every kid was supposed to start with.

Space Wolf stuff is better. Emphasis on "better", rather than "good".

I liked the Custodes because of the bling and the individual gene thing. It seemed to have a lot more room for Your Dudeing.

>t. buttangry guardfags

Oh please Veeky Forums is "Stop liking what I don't like": the image board. Independent thought that doesn't agree with the echo chamber is more reviled here than in a 1984 rip off.

>it's also about combining that aesthetic with the bland mcbland lore.

So Ultramarines being pragmatic, logical, and responsible (ie not running off and abandoning one's duty in order to go on an autistic eternal crusade) is bland?

WRONG WAY AROUND NO?

Yeah. Where's the character in that? Blood Angels have the whole red thirst dynamic, Dark Angels have the whole edgy past dynamic. What did Ultramarines have? Like I said, Titus and Leandros was cool, because it brought character to the Smurfs.

Rowboat Girlyman has become less Mary Sue like given how he has nearly got his ass wooped more times than I can remember.

UM have been designed as bland. That's their whole purpose.
That's why the default marine is just a UM. It's supposed to be a chapter where children or beginners start.

>Yeah. Where's the character in that?

There was a rebellion on Macragge involving some youth militia, which was swiftly crushed.
Marneus Calgar then ordered the ones who had trained the rebel militia to be punished, because they had obviously failed to train them effectively. Not because they rebelled, but because their rebellion was incompetent.

Obviously the implications here regarding Ultramarines discipline are less interesting than pretty boy space vampires being emo, monk marines being all murdery-traitory to hide muh secrets and werewolf space vikings being all berserk and anti-authority.

>That's why the default marine is just a UM. It's supposed to be a chapter where children or beginners start.

Spoken like someone whose knowledge begins and ends with memes.

No, he's right. It's basic marketing.

Although I'm not arguing that this is all there is to the chapter.

Probably a combination of traditional heroes and contrarianism becoming more popular as Veeky Forums gets older. They were never unpopular, people love being good guys. But Veeky Forums in general has shifted into wanting to think of themselves as good instead of as deviant over the last decade.

>They were never unpopular, people love being good guys. But Veeky Forums in general has shifted into wanting to think of themselves as good instead of as deviant over the last decade.

I like some balance in my collection.

>Vikings and templars are bad too. Just not SO bad
But none of this is inherently bad, it all depends on what writters and players do with it. These are themes you can develop in order to create something appealing. The 40k setting is a giant sandbox and its lore offers a lot of possibilities and personal interpretations. As long as you don't completely go against the established fluff, you're free to extand it as you wish.

>That's how they were described and portrayed in the real world
But there are multiple level of comprehension of the fluff and we are no longer innocent children. The UM are far from being flawless heroes fighting for justice and freedom against the force of evil.
>Still hate Xenos as a principle
>Tolerate atrocious institutions like the Inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy
Like the other chapter, that is not exactly being "heroes".
>Have their own secret police, the Vigil Opertii, in order to suppress any discontent in Ultramar. Since the Great Crusade. Before the Imperium was such a shitty place.
Okay, so the supposedly "good guys" in the Imperium actually use the same repressive methods than the rest of the empire.

Ultramar is still a (enlightened) dictatorship, Ultramarines are still killers ultimately loyal to a hateful, brutal and rotten regime and never did anything to make the Imperium better as a state beyond the borders of their realm. They are "heroes" because they fight evil spiky guys or big bad space aliens who want to kill their people and keep a bit of ethic when doing so. But thats all.

The "problem" is that UM are reasonable and believable in a universe of over-the-top, stupidly omnipresent grimdarkness, which may effectively make look them rather "bland". I don't see this as a flaw however, because it makes the whole setting a lot more cruel and ironic : in the grim darkness of the far future, the "heroes" are still authoritarian ethnocentric murder-machines tolerating bigotry, slavery and genocide. Woah.

>it all depends on what writters and players do with it
That's what I said, user.

UM still being Imperial doesn't make them NOT the blandest in the setting until recently. It just reinforces their position as...normal. The baseline. They're not even anti-Imperium, they're just the good boys. And they're certainly not believable, and the fact that everyone else is characterful is one of the reasons why.

This. I will add that Calgar spared the children though, he was still a nice guy. But the Ultramarines are just that : space fascists with realistic human behaviours in a setting that overuses stereotypes.

It may seem bland or boring, but that's still something unique. It's only bad when GW tries making them heroes too hard.

>space fascists with realistic human behaviours in a setting that overuses stereotypes.
They are space fascist in society of worst nazis mixed with with worst religious zealots imaginable, a much lesser evil seems tolerable.

>space fascists with realistic human behaviours in a setting that overuses stereotypes.
There's not a single faction in 40k with realistic human behaviour, especially the UM.
Being obsessed with a shitty book written thousands of years ago is hardly "realistic".

Plus, astartes are barely humans at all. Their biology and brainwashing destroy most of what "human" they bad

>Where's the character in that?
The blood angels, dark angels and space wolves are painfully colored by the early 90's in their attempts to show how different they are from the "norm". Which ultimately boils them down to their gimmick and little else.

The ultramarines on the other hand were given a utilitarian codex, followed by top billing in the tyrannic wars. It expanded on their fluff with a little story arc, showed how they could suffer for their dogma (with behemoth) and the methods they had taken to learn from it (with kraken)

Of the "big four" in 2e, the Ultramarines probably had the most character as a chapter. Because they actually did stuff.

You should see Reddit if you think it's an echo chamber here.

>Being obsessed with a shitty book written thousands of years ago is hardly "realistic".

Think about that.

>characterful
Again, that's subjective. Noble rogue space Vikings with a wolf-wolf-wolf fetish are much more a boring stereotype than anything else for me. I don't say Scandinavians/Rus/etc are boring, it just feels like something I don't want to explore in the 40k setting, no matter how "underground" or "super original" it may be.

1) Blue is a popular colour, so beginners with no knowledge about/interest for the fluff may love the UM for this sole reason. And that's okay. It doesn't mean they have nothing special and tasty for people who know and love their "disciplined empire-building space Romans" flavour. Seriously how many of those new players beginning with UM actually know their fluff ? Or have decent knowledge about Greco-Roman history besides Hollywood clichés ? I wonder how many readers of the HH series calling the UM "bland" knew anything of the IRL Tetrarchs when the organization of the 500 Worlds became a thing in the fluff. Those are only details but they are inspiring - what would a "Late Antiquity" UM look like ? - but a lot of people don't even see them.

2) ALL the Marines miniatures besides SW, BA, BT and DA are fucking identical; SL, RG, IF, CF, WS and co are ultimately just as bland as Ultramarines if you don't convert them.
>But at least they have strong themes user, like ravens, flames and dragons, bikes, etc...
And ? UM are Greco-Romans in space. And no, having a crest on your helmet is not the only way of looking classical, just look at FW or and tell me it looks like the average gothic-baroque stuff we have on every single "bland" Marine. And yes, there are plenty of fairly-priced bits on the internet to convert them, no excuse.

Conclusion : Good UM true to their Roman roots are not bland, boring, or mainstream. GW are just lazy fucks who can't do decent uprade kits and some players seriously lack any imagination because "huhuhu all guys with leather skirts are already Romans".

People bitching about the Ultramarines was always a meme.

So can we agree that "lesser evil space fascists" =/= "heroes Lil' Joey's mom would consider totally okay as a faction for his boy" ?
The "UM are for kids argument" only stands because kids actually don't know so much about the whole setting or even IRL totalitarism.

>Being obsessed with a shitty book written thousands of years ago is hardly "realistic".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopraxy
Some religions have done the same for thousand of years. And it completely fits how the Romans were autistically obsessed by rites and traditions.

And the UM actually understand how to manage a society, deal with basic human psychology and needs, etc. So I think they are more human than most Astartes.