Players submit wishlists of magical items they'd like

>players submit wishlists of magical items they'd like

...I don't know how to feel.

You don't ask your players to do this? I find it useful, as a GM.

It doesn't mean they'll get all of them. It just gives me an idea of the kind of things they're interested in.

Some old fogeys think it's fun wasting time with a basket-full of magic item, 50% of which you'll never use, instead of working with the players to weave a few meaningful magic items into the story.

I mean, there's no reason you can't do both. Throwing a weird utility item in alongside the more directly useful ones promotes interesting and creative problem solving. But it gets boring if you're meant to treat literally everything that way.

It's nice to have if you really want to reward them, considering the absolutely ungodly amount of magical items some systems have, and not all magical items will benefit each player equally.

As a Pathfinder example, a wizard will start benefitting from a Ring of Wizardry IV much faster than a bloodrager does, because he gets more spell slots of higher levels and he also gets them much faster. Bloodrager can't cast 4th-level spells until he takes 13 levels in bloodrager, whereas the wizard gets his first one in just under half the time, at his 7th level in wizard.

Just take it as a list of suggestions rather than a list of requirements.

Saves the time going "whenever we're at a new region with shops, I take time looking for X,Y and two Z on sale"

Use them for cursed items.

>Pathfinder general

As with all things, communication is key. For the most part, them giving you a wishlist is just useful information- It tells you what loot they'd enjoy, where they see their character going, what they may want to acquire in the future (via buying/trading/etc.) and so forth. You aren't obligated to provide these, but they certainly give you stuff to work with. The issue arises if the player feels entitled to these specific items, which is where the communication comes in.

You're supposed to know your player's well enough to give them the magic items they didn't even know they wanted, rather than the items they think they want.

...The fuck?

My DM does this, but he’s sly. Like nonchalantly finds out the vision we have for our characters hanging out 1 on 1 not doing D&D related things.

I noticed he only give us the stuff on the wishlists when we beat especially hard bosses, but it’s still pretty fun and thoughtful.

Not surprisingly he’s an awesome gift giver for the holidays

It's like you've never raped someone until they climaxed.

That's just good gift-giving practice. It's the same giving gifts to PCs in a game.

...No it isn't? Not at all?

Politely but firmly inform them that magic items are not and should not be considered a part of their "build", and that they'll have to make do with whatever they find in the adventures, and that you're not even going to look at the list because you might end up avoiding the things on it out of subconscious spite. If they press the issue, inform that the campaign has been canceled and that they are all syphilitic fuckmongers. Add a loud "reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" if necessary.

If your players even know what magic items exist in your world, you already did it wrong and need to start over.

...What?

Personally I prefer to put gift cards made of pure residuum in my treasure chests. That way the players get what they want and they don't have to ask for anything.

Depending on the system and setting, magic items are a necessary part of the combat math. The monster manual baddies are given AC and hit bonuses per level, and the magic items a player is going to obtain at a given level grant a bonus roughly equal to the disparity between player and monster stats. Of course, there are other optional rules to keep combat moving smoothly, but if you don't do your homework and also don't take items for granted, then PCs are going to be failing most of their rolls at higher levels, which doesn't make any sense for the gameplay or the narrative.

What if you're playing D&D 3.x or Pathfinder where it literally is part of your build to have certain magic items and if you don't the broken piece of hot garbage that you're playing breaks just a little more?

Spot on. 11/10.

4/5 of Veeky Forums wont understand why this guys is right, but he is.

Then how about explaining it, because it sounds like meaningless gibberish to me.

If you're a good DM, every magic item in your world is unique and made up by yourself specifically for that campaign, so that the players never know in advance what they can find. That makes them more magical. If you want to use some kind of a premade magic item compendium to lessen your own workload, it should be one that the players have never seen or heard of.

That's a non-issue if you're remotely a competent DM. You should not rely on pre-canned "balanced" combat math, instead you should have an instinctive gut-level grasp of the actual power level and competency of your group and an innate understanding of what it takes to almost-but-not-quite slaughter them. Then you adjust everything on the fly to reach that sweet spot. Of course cultivating this skill takes time, but it is far better than relying on some designer who doesn't sit at your table and has never met your group.

>What if you're playing D&D 3.x or Pathfinder where it literally is part of your build to have certain magic items

Inform the players in advance that that is not an option, and that they should not even try to plan their build more than one level in advance because there is no telling what will happen in the adventure. They might die in the first ten minutes. They might step into a pond that rerolls everything on their entire character sheet. Do not assume you will reach level 20, instead seize the moment and live in the now.

the party gave you a list of carrots to dangle in front of them. I'd say roll with it. Give them to enemy's you expect them to kill or spread rumors around about where one might find some of the items on the list and use that to push players towards your plot.

But that's nothing to do with being a good GM. That's just asserting a specific flavour of setting that, presumably, you prefer.

>That's a non-issue if you're remotely a competent DM. You should not rely on pre-canned "balanced" combat math, instead you should have an instinctive gut-level grasp of the actual power level and competency of your group and an innate understanding of what it takes to almost-but-not-quite slaughter them.
Monsters aren't made of feelings, they are made of math.

And no, it doesn't take any time at all to learn that a party without magic items is going to have lower stats by a predictable number. It's basic algebra.

>That's a non-issue if you're remotely a competent DM.
t. Dunning-Kruger

Not if you know what the fuck you're doing, they aren't.

Autsim is destroying RPGs.

You aren't presenting anything even resembling an argument. You're just asserting something which doesn't seem true without any evidence or basis beyond claimed superiority.

Yes, let's make 80% of MM1 and nearly all of the later monsters unusable and make CoDzilla even more powerful relative to Fighters by stripping away the gear that give Fighters bonuses they were built around having while CoDzillas can give them to themselves, that's EXACTLY what you should do.

>This entire thread
Initially I wanted to post "Have you tried not playing D&D", but Jesus Christ, this is just too much.

...

This all sounds like very bad advice, from an individual who is ignorant about the sorts of games they are purportedly giving advice about.

Welcome to nu-Veeky Forums; enjoy your stay.

this. stop letting metagamers walk over you.

Have santa turn up and check if they are on his naughty list or his nice list.

The issue here isn't even DnD, it's that apparently 80% of DMs lost their balls along the way and think they must cater to the autistic powerbuildung fantasy of some sperg players, instead of consciously fucking metagamers over at every opportunity.

awshitniggafucking5starpost.jpeg

we've been playing SKT off and on through roll20 and we're level 6/7 and we each have like 1 magic item and haven't been to any actual dungeons other than a cave or two. i personally like other system for story-driven play but people just really seem down to play dnd/star/pathfinder

So if a player has ever flipped through the gear section of the rulebook, you should refuse to let them play?

Or, here's just a thought, people play these games to have fun and some people enjoy the sperging that is reading through hundreds of items to find the ones that would be coolest for their character. If they find that fun, and it doesn't infringe on anyone else's fun, then what's the problem?

This isn't to say that games where magic items are scarce and mysterious are bad, but rather that there is more than one way to approach the topic of magic items and different people and groups like different things.

no, you should actively fuck with their expectations.

>people play these games to have fun and some people enjoy the sperging that is reading through hundreds of items to find the ones that would be coolest for their character
then they should go and play Diablo. Why the fuck are you justifying metagaming because 'it's fun for the player'? Are you mentally deficient?

Do you think it is acceptable for players to read the module or peek at the DMs notes because it's "fun" for him? Is it acceptable for him to cheat at his rolls because failing wouldn't be "fun"?

>every magic item in your world is unique
are "mundane" magical items not okay?
not every enchantment has to increase your powerlevel, why can't there just be easily made objects like "peasant sickle that is ~10% more resistant to rust" that wouldn't get a second glance?

its almost christmas

I think the point he's trying to make is that different groups do different things - of course it's not okay to do certain things like metagaming with items with certain groups, but if everyone involved in a given group is fine with it, who are we to accuse them of having badwrongfun?

This makes perfect sense in literally any game that has lists of magic items players can browse through.

If you have some game that's either so mud-drab gritty or so mythical that magic items are super rare, you may be running it in the wrong system.

Anyways, this is obviously expected and useful in any kind of fantasy combat tactics simulator game, like D&D 3 or later played as designed.

In games a little more narrative oriented, it's useful to know what kind of carrot would best motivate them. It always sucks when you think you're rewarding one of them for their hard-scrabble victory and you see an expression a 12 year old makes when they get socks for Christmas.

>Oh hey, cool. Thanks for letting me know what kind of play style you'd enjoy. I can't guarantee I'll give you those items, because that's not my style.
>But you'll be able to make these yourself, if you ever get your hands on a magical forge, although gathering materials and crafting may take a whole session, maybe more.
Here, it's not hard, for goodness's sake.

If you don't metagame, then what is the point of playing D&D?

You are Santa Claus
You hold their innocent, entitled little hearts in your hands

Crush them

Too greedy. Stat a Krampus.

I'm confused. How is expressing a preference and giving the GM useful information in any way similar to metagaming?

Unsolicited, it seems presumptuous.

Even if he was right, both of you would still be wrong.

Why? OP said it took the form of a wishlist. That isn't a demand or a presumption, it's just giving you an idea of the kind of things they'd like in an ideal world. I can't see that being negative.

In the worst case scenario, if you're playing a game where you are going for the rare magic items thing, it's still useful information as it lets you see the general kind of thing they enjoy, so you can come up with your own twists on it for the various rare or unique magic items present.

Better autism than Paizo-level retardation.

>instead of consciously fucking metagamers over at every opportunity.
That GM detected. If you can't have honest and serious discourse with your players about what you want, and then get rid of the ones that won't comply, you shouldn't be allowed to GM at all.