Magic was so much stronger ages ago

OP's a fag saying things shouldn't be better in the past, but there's a big thing if the present and future increase in power level, since there's more opportunity for change and upheaval. That's definitely time for adventuring.

Well I mean I guess you can make it a High fantasy setting and all that, but even High fantasy settings like Warhammer fantasy still had shit suck in comparison to the past.

Read a fucking book.

Because it makes people think of their childhood, the better times that have since been lost. It helps people identify with the setting. There's a reason these tropes are so popular.

It's not treated as something that depletes, it's just a parallel to the dark ages and medieval period, which is basically where most fantasy settings would be placed.
For hundreds of years after the fall of Rome the world was worse off than it was before. So much knowledge, organization, and technology was lost to the world.

It also makes the setting interesting because you can find ancient secrets and use them to be more powerful than normal knowledge of magic would allow.

wasn't the fall of rome the fault of the jews too?

Because if that wasn't the case you wouldn't have ancient dungeons full of unknown and powerful magic to explore, would you?

So Shadowrun/Earthdawn?

>Ancient things being super powerful and awesome is the only way to drive conflict in a game
Wow you're super interesting.

...

Because in the past we had our own memes.
Nowadays all we have is /v/, /r9k/, /pol/, and reddit shit.
Veeky Forums is basically another shitpost board now.

Have you looked around you? A), you have people wanting to make things like they used to (aka. better), and B) you have people who think that those people are idiots, unlike people before them.

Nothing in the now is ever as good as it was and you can't talk about the future because it's the unknown. You can say for certain future magic's gon b gud, because you don't know. Only thing you ever know about the future that there's a great evil and some schmuck who's gonna deal with them.

If anything it's the fault of Christians, but that would be a narrow and simplistic view of Roman history.

Because there was once a point where it was expected that players would affect prominent change on the setting world. The idea was that the pcs could make the world great again.
Now, though, dms are so against this line of thought that they actively work to thwart any player plans to change the status quo of the world.

This is literally ancient, there is a natural mystique to things which are really, really old and writers draw on that. Settings where new stuff is better are usually just science-fiction, but even then it's a rare sci-fi that resists the urge to throw in the ruins of ancient and amazingly powerful aliens.

It helps that it makes a great excuse for dungeon crawling.

>im not saying its a utopia, im saying that all the great paladins, and mages and shit that could do ridiculously cool shit are all dead, instead of having a warlock that can summon giant demons, you get one that can barely make a skeleton walk because "lol magic was stronger back then :^)'

You're getting this backwards, if a story doesn't have warlocks summoning giant demons it's purely because the author didn't want that in the story. It's nothing to do with whether magic used to be stronger. Even if magic was at the peak of its strength, the power of that magic would still be entirely at the whim of the author, so it makes no difference in that sense.

If you want to complain about settings not having enough flashy and powerful characters then go ahead (or start watching anime), but that's a different question.

ITT: "I can't imagine ancient civilizations having cool shit without also making current civilizations absolutely suck"

Because it wouldn't be ripping off Tolkien otherwise.

It goes back to at least ancient Greece. Tolkien was borrowing older ideas himself.

Yeah, there's a fuckton of times in the Iliad where the narration basically says "yeah people can't do kickass shit like they did in the past"

Gibbon, get your autism out of here

>>magic was so much stronger ages ago
>which is how a rift in space-time was caused by a mad wizard, bleeding the ancient magics into the present and it's up to your party to either fix things back up or stabilize the connection, fusing past and present into a new future

>Because in the past we had our own memes.
>Nowadays all we have is /v/, /r9k/, /pol/, and reddit shit.
>Veeky Forums is basically another shitpost board now.

Don't forget, /qst/ is the true roleplaying board now. We even have non-quest threads like Field Kit and worldbuilding!

>Party dives into a dungeon going after the big bad guy fighting their way past his best henchmen.
>They arrive too late, he already has the scroll of the ultimate destructive magic left by the ancient civilization.
>He uses it on the party.
1d4 magic missile

Because these settings are made by humans, and humans have built in nostalgia-goggles. This shit isn't new, user.
Most real-world mythologies have a theme of "Shit used to be fantastic, but now it sucks" - Garden of Eden, the Age of Heroes in Greek myth, etc etc

play Dark Sun

you catty faggot, they're not wrong

I like the Susannah Clarke approach in that magic was stronger in the past due to one powerful being who, when disappeared or killed, causes it to decline or fade

Wow you're also a well of creativity.

Think about it like this. Modern fast food is way more advanced and complicated to make then traditional home-cooked food, yet which would you rather eat?

alright, wow us with your transhumanist neonatal Mobius strip narrativist setting neutral gaming system that doesn't exist then you absolute whining cocksucking faggoto

You must have an incredibly narrow exposure to media if you need me to tell you how you could have conflict without ancient super magic technodildos in a cave as the driving force.

>what is Star Trek
even a narrow exposure would suffice
if you don't like artifacts and legends and such, don't use them. they work just fine for the vast majority of folks

>I do not understand that the loss of magic is a metaphor for either Entropy, or the replacement of myth and legend with fact and law.

The reverse is pretty common as well where society is advancing too quickly and how humanity lacks the wisdom to handle the knowledge and power that we are acquiring
Pretty much 90% of scifi in the 90s

Because it leads into the
>The old ways were actually better all along

Both are just instances of old people wanking to nostalgic memories of the time or old/ignorant people who can't keep up with the rapid changes in society

Both are tropes for the lowest common denominator

Colonialists/conquistadors exploring the new world, happy you raging queer?
>technology and magic are cosntantly advancing in the homeland
>still dungeons because the natives where doing their own thing
>completely different themes because tropes dont exist in a vacumn and your bitching and moaning is just demanding us to reinvent the wheel for you

>magic was way better
>so much so that they banned magic because it's retardly easy for a child to throw a fireball
>even the king swears to never practice magic
>protag learns magic and is trying to spread it around

Sounds fun

It isn't really magic if everyone knew how to do it. Well it is, but it's not really occupying the same slot thematically. Having it being some mystery from the past tells players that it can be powerful, but at the same time that it's rare. It's also just a really common cliche

Because that's how heroes are made. By throwing a bunch of shitters into the meatgrinder until one comes out with Godlike power.

You ever think that people screwed around with magic to the point they blew up all the major magical centers setting back knowledge in the subject by centuries.

FPBP

>Warhammer Fantasy
>High Fantasy

What did he mean by this?

Because it's true and was known to be true by everyone from Hesiod to the ancient Hindu scholars.

To accommodate common D&D tropes like dungeons full of magical loot.

I've ran games where ancient < modern (magic and martial arts and shit have naturally improved with centuries of development, there were ancient sorcerers and shit who were insanely good at what they did but at best they only equaled the best modern sorcerers and were far less plentiful) and while it's interesting it also creates very different adventuring opportunities; most of the "dungeon crawls" ended up being inhabited fortresses and shit (abandoned ruins have less cool shit than places that are being built/occupied right now) and most of the desirable loot ended up being in the hands of living people instead of sitting around somewhere.

Also, it took a bit more effort to include powerful legendary monsters since kind of begged the question of "where are they coming from"- like, if Flegethor the Murderous, Superdragon of the Exploding Wastes has been around forever, how come he didn't kill the shit out of all the humans back when they were still comparatively weak and bad at everything? If he hasn't, where did he come from?

None of it is remotely insurmountable, or even a very good reason to NOT make a world like this; it just requires a bit of extra thought since a lot of the common adventuring tropes are sort of reliant on there being a bunch of cool ancient shit for the players to discover.

I've done this before.

Congrats, you've taken a much longer time to rephrase the thread's premise while also being an apologist for the laziest, least interesting, and flat out fucking retarded trope in the entirety of the hobby and beyond.

Good job.

The fact that a ton of fantasy is set medieval-esque times its the answer of your question already, its the mythic and unknown past of legends, its ingrained in our culture, and rpgs tend to use this feeling as well to motivate adventures

>OP whinging over how sour lemons are

>This bastard made lemonade with vodka
YOU.
You stay.
I like both you and the cut of your jib.

Because it's the lazy gm/writer's/game dev's way of saying "Who gives a shit, you're here for the game/adventure shut up and stab the fucking goblin". Shocker, giving a shit is hard, so most people don't.

These anons are correct, everyone else in this thread is uncultured. You have your answer OP.

>why is the PAST always better than the present? why has everyone that was actually good already lived and died?
Because it's true to life.

Even putting aside that it's a reason to find superior magic items in the numerous different dilapidated ruins of ancient civilizations.

>being a Forgotten Realms shitter

Because they have no idea how the world actually works

I like it.
Reminds me of:
>"No weapon forged can stop me."
>"That was then, this is now."

Rome fell is a meme.

The Byzantine Empire only fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453.

>Empire of the Greeks
>Rome proper
>laughingThirdRomeSuccessorStates.PapalStates.RussianEmpire.HolyRomanEmpire.tiff

And by defacto, christians are jews.

You're assuming magic is a science which gets stronger as you "develop" it

Adam and Eve lived for over 900 years. The strongest demigod in the Trojan war, Achilles, is weak enough to be defeated by a minor river god whereas Heracles was able to physically overwhelm Olympians. Newton thought he was rediscovering greek knowledge. The idea of things getting worse over time is extremely common. It doesn't help that a huge theme in Tolkien's setting is precisely that, either

I kinda do this with vampires in modern settings, the crossbow was a stake thrower, the modern bullet is worse, running water is literally everywhere civilized and people can get herbs like garlic with ease.

Nostalgia.

Firstly, it's a psychological thing: People always have rose-tinted glasses to a degree, guaranteed.

Secondly, it's thematically interesting to have characters try to do good in a damned or apathetic world. To risk it all for what you believe.

>Death closes all: but something ere the end,
>Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
>Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.

So quit being an overanalytical fucktard and realize that just throwing logic into everything does not make it entertaining.

You know what Im tired of? People trying to make a fantasy race "unique". And I don't mean making their society different, or making them inspired by a different realworld civilization, I mean the smug faggots who are all like "OOOH look at me, my elves are eight feet tall yetis that shit gold!", or people who try to subvert cliches/tropes/archetypes or whatever the fucking meme word is this month. It isn't clever to play a situation out by the numbers, only to suddenly jump up and screech "THE PRINCESS IS A GUY! NEVER SAW THAT COMIN' HUH?" It's annoying.

That is to say dont try to put a new spin on things, just dont do it stupidly.

Oh, and another thing. Fuck everyone that autisticly worldbuilds. Worldbuilding is already kind of autistic, but it is necessary(and even fun!) in order to have a story that makes fucking sense. What isn't cool is worldbuilding as though you are already expecting to have your crappy little Warhammer Fantasy ripoff become the next big fantasy IP.

Just start with a fucking story, and go from there. Star Wars did it, Conan did it, LotR did it, everything did it. You aren't better than them. They knew hwat the fuck they were doing. I do not care about the history of the House of DeButtmunch, rulers of the Duchy of Bumfuckistan, unless it has something to do with an intersting story. Maybe the heir is denied his right and he must go on a quest.

Fuck this board is autistic goddamit

It's because everyone plays in Tolkien's sandbox, but want to evoke the feelings of ancient ruins and cool magic and shit over his original nuance.

In Tolkien the limitless potential and gonzo bullshit magic fades away because it is used. The world of Fëanor didn't have the Sun, the Moon, or the Evening Star. It didn't have Istari or the Halfelven, or Hobbits. It doesn't even have Mordor.

>Moon made of literal condensed magic smashed into the continent and now a bunch of rat people use it to power their giant taser guns oh and also use it to get high
>Demons from hell romp around the land throwing magic missiles around willy nilly
>The High Elf homeland is only held together by hugely powerful arcane ritual
>Lizard dudes use magic to destroy cities and summon meteorites
>Even the fucking humans have shit like dragons and hippogryphs and pegasi and sorcerors who can change the weather and slow down time
Do you have trouble putting your shoes on the right feet?

Because magic = past and technology = future

Evolved from, not are. They are 2 different faiths.

go crawl up a whale's urethra you semen-gargling shit pancake

In addition to all the Greece/Rome/lost paradise shit, the advancement of technology and the resulting secularization of society. The past was more magical because people at the time believed in magic. Spirits, devils, hexes, and dragons all were in the realm of real things that could exist over the next hill or out of sight. As the world was mapped and the mechanisms of the universe learned, there became no more room for fantasy to exist. Past magics frequently conflict with modern technology as a literal realization of this phenomena.

Sure but it all started when a jew told the empire that maybe being a brutal cunt isn't a virtue and instead a bad thing.

I like how OP and everyone in the thread is literally wrong.

The vast majority of players playing tabletop RPGs are playing to advance in power, magic, or become legendary or even Gods in the current era of the game world they are playing in. There is a progression of not only rivaling but overcoming the past.

Renee Guenon wrote a book called "The Reign of Quantity & the Signs of the Times". In it, he delved into the Four Ages that are recognized in ancient tradition from the Hellenic to the Indian-Aryan, which, for simple terms, can be considered the Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Iron Ages.

The Golden Ages are eras where the power is held primarily by the clerical class, where society was constructed in such a way that power and knowledge was held by only a select few, which in the eyes of the modern era is "barbaric", "idiotic", "superstitious", and prone to corruption.

The Silver Age was an era for the military and the generals to hold the power, after ousting the priestly caste and establishing order based on ideals such as pride and honor, rather than solely on a divine calling. In today's eyes, this is seen as "fascistic", "murderous", "genocidal", and prone to corruption.

The Bronze Age is an era of merchants, who have gained the power to control armies and governments through wealth, and put society over the barrel to cater to their whims and encourage the individual to reach for the stars. From our perspective today, this is "manipulative", "conniving", "bureaucratic" and prone to corruption.

The Iron Age is the age of the masses, where every individual has power equal to that of everyone else, regardless of potential, production, or personal traits. In today's eyes... Well, you tell me. This is the era that you're currently living in.

The reason magic is always stronger in yesteryear is because it was a select knowledge held by only a few, carefully preserved and studied, and with it magic could bloom. Even our real-world "magic", religion, recognized this idea, and kept true esoteric knowledge from the masses. However, stupid assholes like you and Luther and Descartes and Kant and Heidegger and Marx thought it would be A-OK to let that knowledge bleed out into a society where everyone is able to make their own "truths" without proper discourse.

/thread

One where explain why we can't replicate the grand feats of the ancients is because the ancients were horrible people, and despite advancements there are just some magical feats they can only be achieved through human sacrifice.

He meant you're retarded.

Players are like that, yes. But 5 dudes doing some cool shit doesn't necessarily mean that this era is better than the last one. Half the time they do that cool shit with magic stuff they found from the previous era.

Only the right one, when I put that on I have no issues with the left.

This.
Or, more specifically, Catholicism.

We learned it from watching you, dad.

Yeah, the world would be a better place if the Romans had just nuked the middle-east all those centuries ago.

I mean, if they had nukes, they had spaceships anyway so why not, right?

>Oh, and another thing. Fuck everyone that autisticly worldbuilds. Worldbuilding is already kind of autistic, but it is necessary(and even fun!) in order to have a story that makes fucking sense. What isn't cool is worldbuilding as though you are already expecting to have your crappy little Warhammer Fantasy ripoff become the next big fantasy IP.
Jesus Christ, this in perpetuity. (((((((Worldbuilding)))))) is just the writing equivalent of masturbation

Warhammer?

You gain the same sort of pleasure from dopamine and endrocrine activity during imagination exercises that you enjoy that you do when working out or reading for pleasure.

It IS masterbatory.

And also FUN. So now that you have your buzzword to dismiss, please do so and prove yourself the utter asshat you make yourself out to be.

>The Bronze Age is an era of merchants, who have gained the power to control armies and governments through wealth, and put society over the barrel to cater to their whims and encourage the individual to reach for the stars. From our perspective today, this is "manipulative", "conniving", "bureaucratic" and prone to corruption.
>The Iron Age is the age of the masses, where every individual has power equal to that of everyone else, regardless of potential, production, or personal traits. In today's eyes... Well, you tell me. This is the era that you're currently living in.

Today seems more bronze age than iron age. Individuals certainly do not have equal power, while merchants still hold all the cards.

This. We'd have to go back to La Belle Epoch for that.

Hindsight means we can see all the cool things that used to be.

We also just generally romanticize things not happening now. Especially if it doesn’t seem very complicated or people think they have a general understanding of it.

Because magic really was stronger twenty years ago.

Not that user, but I have ZERO issue with my friends masturbating.
But if they try to get into at the game table or try to get me to look at it online, I'm fucking done.

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Resources get used up senpai.

People like to reminisce.
>The Greatest Generation
and shit.