I know Veeky Forums hates elves, but how do we feel about half-elves...

I love elves, but I despise half-anythings in fantasy, so they don't exist in my setting at all.

Elf fag spotted.
Elves are gay and weak, half elves are an insult to any race.
>But, but! My Tolkien! Muh, I'm way better and more pretty, and smarterest, and I'm better and I'm the best who is good.
KYS with that loud ass bitch elf shit. You make people who play elves look bad.

>TFW Elder Scrolls has Bretons tho. Aren't they basically half-elves?

>But half-elves are bad

I guess Tolkien is bad, then? Also the vast majority of elf-tales to appear in Irish, Germanic, and Scottish myth?

Fuck off you dumb faggot, half-elves have been part of the concept of elves since their inception. I swear, the asur are the coolest modern elves, but 90% of their fans are pure shitstain human beings.

>Elf fag spotted
I'm proud of you, this was a difficult spot check.

How could you fuck up this greentext? Bretons aren't really half-elves, but humans that got elf'd a lot until they got more magical than normal humans. The child of two races is always the mothers race but with traits of the father.

>I guess Tolkien is bad, then?
Tolkien is not perfect and you should not just ape everything he does for the sake of aping it. Including half-elves because "Tolkien did it" is not good world-building and lazy. That said, he would probably not like modern half-elves at all, like he would probably not like standard DnD elves. But his half-elves were really rare, so they don't do much damage. At the same time they are completely different from other settings half-elves, actually just either humans or elves that chose one or the other, and anything a half-elf has done in Tolkiens works could have been done by any of both races. Which is technically true, no "half-elf" ever did anything, it was either an elf or a human. Because of that I even think that Tolkien could have done without half-elves.

The rest is basically
>muh myths
And some points from above go for this as well. Just because you can find this stuff in some myths doesn't mean you have to include it here as well. Tolkien didn't include all myths, and he would have been stupid for doing it. Tabletop games are not myth simulators, you don't have to include anything you see there. Or else have fun including every occurance of "troll" and see what different kinds of creatures all fall under this category. Mabye even elves. You should rather ask yourself: what do half-elves add to my world and to the player, what consequences are there for adding them, do we really need them?

Tolkien had like two half elven families which were an exception though, not hordes of muh special halfbreeds.

...

>and anything a half-elf has done in Tolkiens works could have been done by any of both races.

What does this even mean? Half-elves are less impressive than elves in most settings. They're rarely super special snowflakes that can do anything.

>You should rather ask yourself: what do half-elves add to my world and to the player, what consequences are there for adding them, do we really need them?

You can apply everything here to elves themselves. The final answer is: the provide story opportunities. That's it.

Also, I gotta say, I find your dumb-assed point that half-elves make humans and elves closer in early posts incredibly stupid. In the vast majority of literature involving half-elves, they widen the gap if anything. Half-elves in, say, Irish myth are basically elves, in that they're so superior to humans you might as well not bother putting up a fight unless you're Cuchulainn. Everything is in portrayal. If your half-elves are just humans with pointy ears and 20ish more years on their lifespan, that's dumb.

How many settings exist in which there are actually hordes of these special half-breeds?

>first half-breed family
Elrond and Arwen. That's it.
>second half-breed family
The entirety of Numenor, and the aristocracy of Gondor and Anor even at the end of the third age.

Tolkien literally did have a horde of special halfbreeds in the men of Westernesse. It was just one type, though.

half elves are basically magical real at their core, this isn't to say that they shouldn't exist in any form- but they should be far rarer than they are

As canonical characters? None. As your players'? I've seen quite a lot.

Sauce?

What makes them so speshul, user? Keep in mind that they're already player characters and therefore have license to be a certain step out of the norm.

That said, if I include half-elves I divide them into two categories dependent on who the mother was. If the mother is an elf, they just play an elf that may be somewhat stockier than most. If the mother is human, they get the standard half-elf racial shit.

D&D Elves literally don't give a shit if you're a halfie. Unless it's Dragonlance, or Kingdoms of Kalamar

Which is pretty bad- when you think about it, it means that any failings, deficiencies or anything that can tie to one's heritage are pretty much Outright ignored- wasn't Icewind dale about a bunch of disillusioned halfies up to some grand scheme or something?

Though to note, this probably has something to do with the fact that the first instance of Elven race-mixing pretty much caused Vampirism to happen, and this was then later covered up, because of the whole "How were we supposed to know leaving fission distributed divine blood would mix with Elder Evil (Zarus) and make the first vampire?" and then somehow Curryman Latherion actually managed to fucking get every single FR deity to rewrite mythological creation, except for dragons who still hinted at it, because as if that faggot elf god could use his massive fuckup to step on Dragon Pride, take your fucking divine-sanctioned Liches and cosmic disasters every infintasmal conceptual Elf for every subject ever and shove it.

After a cock-up like that I can see Elves being somehow MADE to acknowledge halfies as a full-blood- at least socially because NO ONE CAN KNOW ABOUT THE FIRST.

He must have sucked a shitload of dick to hide that collosal cock-up, no doubt.

You what? Beren and Luthien, Idril and Tuor and their descendants, that's all. The rulers of Numenor, Arnor and Gondor were never half elves, they were humans with a bit of elven blood and their lives were prolonged by the valar and not because their first king was half elven.

>Half-elves in, say, Irish myth are basically elves
Well guess what, we are talkign about fantasy here. I don't think you got the point I was trying to convey there.
>You can apply everything here to elves themselves
Yes, of course. To any fantasy race. Though I see good reasons to include elves, even various variants. But not half-elves.
>the provide story opportunities. That's it.
"Oh woe is me, I'm so cool because of my two special parents!" I've seen it. Still think that this doesn't outweigh what damage they do.

>Well guess what, we are talkign about fantasy here.

Fantasy is a broad genre with many, many interpretations of things. How half-elves work in a campaign or setting is up to the creator. They're not real, there's no set rules.

>"Oh woe is me, I'm so cool because of my two special parents!"

If this really is the only thing you can think of, you're just creatively empty.

>Still think that this doesn't outweigh what damage they do.

What damage? How do they cause damage?

>They offer nothing but to please humans, something a lot of writers are doing enough already.

You are aware that pleasing humans is the entire point of fiction, right? Books, films, art, etc, can do many things, but ultimately they are consumed to enjoyment - no matter what else you get out of media, you only consume it if you get some form of pleasure from it.

>You are aware that pleasing humans is the entire point of fiction, right?
Also there is a point where it becomes so pandering that it gets insulting, like your standard isekai story of the current age. Also not everyone needs to self-insert to enjoy a work of fiction. Also also not everyone self-inserts with the entire human race. There are also stories written out of the perspective of fantasy races. Also also also ask Lovecraft while you are at it.

>you're just creatively empty
Said the guy that argued with "Tolkien did it".
>What damage?
I'm too lazy to repeat myself.

I don't know anything about half-elves or why you're arguing about them. I just came into this thread to let you know that your taste in shounen is objectively shit. Carry on.

Sure. I didn't say anything about self-inserting, though, did I? Just the complaining that writers are trying to please humans is retarded.

I'm sorry, but what are you even talking about?

>Said the guy that argued with "Tolkien did it".

Showing that something in no way negatively impacts a previous work isn't the same as showing unoriginality. Fix your brain.

>I'm too lazy to repeat myself.

Because you've yet to make a real point, I assume. Seriously, show the inherent damage that half-elves do as a concept. Tell me why, say, Pan's Labyrinth is bad because the protagonist is half human and half fey royalty?

Hey, it's good if your players are able to make adequate half-something characters, but I've mostly encountered the shitty ones, like when their only defining trait is their lineage or when they choose to play a half blood only because of special abilities.

>Showing that something in no way negatively impacts a previous work isn't the same as showing unoriginality
You didn't show anything, you said that we shoudl have half-elves because Tolkien did it. And other people. That is not an argument for the quality of half-elves itself. You also didn't adress any poitn I made about Tolkiens half-elves.
>Because you've yet to make a real point, I assume
Well, so far you haven't made a real point for them as well, aside from the very vague "story opportunity", which is also an opportunity to fuck things up, like this guy argues Mind you I also dislike any half-races, but half-elves carry a special baggage.
>show the inherent damage that half-elves do as a concept
I will not put more effort into this than you do.
>Pan's Labyrinth is bad because the protagonist is half human and half fey royalty?
Are all your arguments tertiary media?

I am angery! More dead elves more free realms and less Roman Empire with incest emprah.

Halfelves are rly bad idea that only enablem faggots and tumbl retards to sport abomination like half-demons, vampires, dragons 3/4 terier-orks and other shit mostly made by leftist retards who hate themselves.

If it isnt forced by magic and sterile I dont alow shit like half-something to exist.
This is just mutt mentality and racemixing propaganda, why you play as a transutionist gnome wizzard when you can be dhampir, halfdragon, 1/4 drow, 1/4 elemental?
Marxism poisoned RPGs long time ago.

>in4b /pol/ adhominem and memes cuz you have no argument

>tolkien
>“half-“““ELVES““““
nigga don‘t even mention Tolkien, his half-elves are a fucking joke to the point where immortality is a choice for them, and they have to chose wether to be elven or human. It has no bearing to anything people would consider half elves.

>You didn't show anything, you said that we shoudl have half-elves because Tolkien did it.

No I didn't. I asked you if Tolkien was bad because half-elves. I said nothing about whether a writer SHOULD include them, you've shat that out of your own brain.

Your points about Tolkien's half-elves aren't addressed because they're not work addressing. You seem to think that because there weren't millions of them, that means they weren't there, or that because they didn't work exactly like D&D half-elves they don't count. Both of which is wrong. The point is - half-elves appear in those stories and those stories do not suffer for it.

>Well, so far you haven't made a real point for them as well

All I'm showing is they are in no way something that causes inherent damage like you imply.

>Are all your arguments tertiary media?

As opposed to your lack of any examples whatsoever? Note this isn't a discussion about D&D, or any single piece of fiction, so anything that includes half-elves of some kind is in fact as relevant as anything else. There is no 'tertiary'. That movie is fantasy fiction and its protagonist is half human, half elf.

Here's the (You) you desperately wanted

Sory for speling mistakes.

Halfelves are rly bad idea that only enablist faggots and tumbl retards to sport abomination like half-demons, vampires, dragons 3/4 terier-orks and other shit mostly made by leftist retards who hate themselves.

If it isnt forced by magic and sterile I dont alow shit like half-something to exist.
This is just mutt mentality and racemixing propaganda, why you play as a transmutionist gnome wizzard when you can be dhampir, halfdragon, 1/4 drow, 1/4 elemental?
Marxism poisoned RPGs long time ago.

>in4b /pol/ adhominem and memes cuz you have no argument

nod an argument
Take it back...(you) need it more.

not all race mixing in fantasy is leftist propaganda. for example in the witcher series it becomes quite obvious that race mixing and giving females power is the fast lane to getting genocided.

>That one Japanese artist who loves making freaky tf porn
>That pic he did on an inter-species family being sentenced to be turned into a big sex toy.

Good times.

>That pic he did on an inter-species family being sentenced to be turned into a big sex toy.

...what?

Human, elf and half-breed turned into a big onahole.

...you might want to take a class or two on spelling and grammar there mate.

I'm morbidly curious. Name/Link?

pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=44698

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

that'd be a cool thing for a half- race to have, they can basically transform between elven and human aspects, or human and giant, or human and horse.

then run it using Werewolf: the Forsaken rules.

>or that because they didn't work exactly like D&D half-elves they don't count
It's not that they don't count... well, actually they shouldn't count. Yes, I'll say it. They don't really count if we are speaking of standard Forgotten Realms half-elves. Because as I explained Tolkiens half-elves are either humans or elves. The only thing they have in common with standard half-elves is their ancestry, but this part has different implications in Tolkiens works.
>The point is - half-elves appear in those stories and those stories do not suffer for it
Guess what, because they are fucking rare. Half-elves in Tolkiens work serve a narrative purpose and that's it. But they are rare and thus not able to be a stain on Tolkiens elves. The myth you like so much are all in their respective little bubble, have very little actual half-elf population and have nothing to do with the games we are playing around here, nothing to do with half-elf players and nothing to do with how settings like Forgotten Realms treats half-elves. The myths are closer to how Tolkien handles half-elves, and both are far away from how something like Forgotten Realms does.
>All I'm showing is they are in no way something that causes inherent damage like you imply
No, they don't cause inherent damage, I'll give you that. But there is a higher chance that they do cause damage. Especially if they are many around. At best they do no damage and the little narrative purposes they can offer have been explored and thrown in the mud as well. I'd rather not include them in any setting, but I'm not a GM, forever player. Though if I hear that somebody wants to play a half-elf on the table you won't find me being excited about it.
>As opposed to your lack of any examples whatsoever?
Contrary to yours? Alright, effort:
(1/2)

>Tolkien
Great setting, great elves. Little half-elves that have a narrative purposes which got reiterated until it became a lame cliche.
>Warhammer Fantasy
Great setting, great elves. Half-elves might as well not exist and serve no purpose. The setting doesn't need them at all.
>TES
Great setting, great elves. No half-elves. Period. The settign doesn't need them and they would offer nothing if you include them.
>Forgotten Realms
Setting became the bog standard, cliched, sometimes wronfully thought as a bad setting. Elves range from tolerably to bad. Half-elves are present in inexplicably large quantities and enable mary sue characters the world, also ours, could do without.

If you can show me a setting with great half-elves, do it. I don't care about your myths, nobody plays these mythic half-elves on the table.

>It's not that they don't count... well, actually they shouldn't count.

Why? We're not talking about D&D.

>Guess what, because they are fucking rare.

That's fine. Make 'em rare.

>Tolkien

A setting where there are half-elves and they don't mess up anything.

>WHFB

A setting where there are half-elves and they don't mess up anything.

>TES

A setting where there's an entire fucking race descended from the interbreeding of elves and humans, and they don't fuck up anything. Yes, the children of humans and elves in TES are half-elves. They are half elf half something else.

>Forgotten Realms

Simply a bad setting. Saying half-elves are bad because they're bad here is like saying Ghostbusters, as a concept, is bad because the recent movie was dogshit.

You've given me three examples of worlds where half-elves happen and they're good settings, and one example of the opposite. Clearly, the problem is not half-elves, the problem is execution. Half-elves do not have to be D&D standard half-elves. A half-elf is any instance of a being that is half-elf and half-another thing. Fucking Changelings from C:tL are half-elves.

>That's fine. Make 'em rare
And guess what, all the settings we agreed that are great have very little of them, in the case of warhammer fantasy they might as well not exist. Yes, it's a matter of execution, but as we can see they are rarely executed well, and mostly because they have little purposes and including them for the sake of including them is a sign of weak world-building. If they are rare they can barely do any damage. But what do they offer if all they have to them is barely doing any damage?
>Yes, the children of humans and elves in TES are half-elves
That's just wrong.

>Saying half-elves are bad because they're bad
No, I'm saying that Forgotten Realms is not that great of a setting and its elves can be pretty bad and one of the reason for that is its half-elves. They included elves because Tolkien did it, then included half-elves because Tolkien did it, and then inflated their numbers and also didn't do anything creative with them. Notice a pattern here? Again, why having half-elves then? Why do I need them in my setting?
>You've given me three examples of worlds where half-elves happen and they're good settings
Arguebly only one. Half-elves in warhammer don't matter and in TES they aren't a thing. So this leaves us with Tolkien, who had a clear narrative purpose with them. If I don't have a narrative purpose for them, I don't need them and have no idea why I would. Why should I include them?
>Clearly, the problem is not half-elves, the problem is execution
And most execution is shite, or the only good execution is to not let them matter much. So, why have them?
>A half-elf is any instance of a being that is half-elf and half-another thing
That is really not OPs topic.

Still waiting for for you to bring up a great setting with great half-elves. I'm still putting more effort into this than you do and it's not fun anymore.

ELVES ARE FOR BULLYING

Another anime faggot that contributes zero to the ongoing discussion.

>pointed ears on man
Okay

Half breeds *can* exist in the elderscrolls but its takes literally generations of intermixing. likes some kind of retarded snowball swap. A halfbreed in the elderscrolls will exhibit features of their fathers race though even if they take their mother's race. The grey prince is proof of this

Not that user, and i'll probably get a lot of flak for this, but...Tales? They're common enough to not only make a difference but also suffer from racism.
Whether that racism has any basis or reason is another thing entirely.

hapa tend to be hated by both sides.

>Whether that racism has any basis or reason is another thing entirely
This is a thing that bothers me with half elves. It makes sense for the elves to hate them, but not for humans. The increase in lifespan alone should make them very popular. At least 4e and onwards did something good with half-elves by making them the "popular" diplomatic race, giving them a specific role in fluff and crunch.

Well, in Tales, the reason for humanocentric half-elf hate was "they can do magic and we can't waah" and something about longer lifespans. As far as i recall anyway.
Which probably makes less sense in a setting where humans can into magic, so...

>but as we can see they are rarely executed well

Except you've given three examples where they're handled well and one where they're not.

>Why do I need them in my setting?

You don't. Nobody's saying you do. But it's retarded to say they damage elves when they've been part of elves since elves have been a thing.

>Half-elves in warhammer don't matter and in TES they aren't a thing.

Yes, they fucking are. Just because it doesn't do half-elves like Forgotten Realms does them does not mean they aren't there. Humans and elves can have kids in TES. Their children are half elf, half human. They have the traits of both parents, leaning heavily toward the mother.

>or the only good execution is to not let them matter much

Elrond was pretty important bruh. Elrond, whose title was literally Elrond Halfelven. So was Elros. There are loads of books and other media where the child of an elf and a human are important, you're just fixating on the fact that Forgotten Realms has an unfeasibly large half-elf population. Which is an example of not a bad concept, but a bad setting.

>That is really not OPs topic.

Okay? OPs topic also didn't specify that we're talking about Forgotten Realms D&D elves either. Shit, I doubt his image is from D&D.

>Except you've given three examples where they're handled well and one where they're not
You are saying that they executed well, but they are executed very little to not executed at all. What does this tell us about half-elves? Why is Tolkien still the only legitimate good setting with improtant half-elves? That aren't even half-elves which we can play at the table and are just either humans or elves?
>But it's retarded to say they damage elves when they've been part of elves since elves have been a thing
One could say that they damaged elves since their inception. Which would not be true for Tolkien. But what I'm arguing is that including them has a higher chance of damaging elves on a whole with little to no chance of offering anything good.
>Nobody's saying you do
Why are we arguing then? What are you arguing for? You offer very little in this discussion besided bringing up half-elves we can't play and don't really matter for tabletop.
>Their children are half elf, half human
No, they are either human or elf depending on the mother. You can't play a half-elf in the TES world like you can play in Forgotten Realms. They are not the same thing.
>Elrond was pretty important bruh
And technically Elrond was an Elf. But really, that's all? Great.
>There are loads of books and other media where the child of an elf and a human are important
The entire time I'm asking you to come up with great half-elves and all I got is
>there are lotsa books
Fuck you, you are boring. You are not arguing for half-elves at all, you are not making any convincing claims, you are not showing what they offer by including them. I'm wasting my time here.
>OPs topic also didn't specify that we're talking about Forgotten Realms D&D elves either
So depends on the setting. Awesome. But I'm sure I can't play Tolkien half-elves, or TES "half-elves". So I stick with DnD and copycats.

Elves are for hugging, headpatting, handholding and PROTECTING THE SMILES OF

>In my head-canon, High Rock doesn't exist

No.

According to viking myth, true heroes are usually descended from an Elf.

>pure blood
>elf

Pick one you fucking knife ear

>56469055
Good bait.

I can tell we will be great friends. But any fraternizing with those beardtaking wazoks is at minimum a grudging.

>Half-elves
>Warhammer
They don’t really exist aside from one black library book. Less notable than even Tolkien half-elves