/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

Previous thread: >Pastebin:
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>News
kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/changeling-the-lost-2nd-edition
theonyxpath.com/one-of-a-kind-deviant-the-renegades/
>This week's Monday Meeting Notes:
theonyxpath.com/just-a-roll-of-the-dice-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question:
Tell me about your current character.
>5th edition cliffnotes
pastebin.com/cp0r59da
>New Geist preview
theonyxpath.com/all-souls-day-preview-geist-the-sin-eaters/

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...

I'm a black man

How cucked are we again?

I am gonna show his, , cock down your throat. That's how "cucked" we are.

What Mage Path is the most tibetan buddhist?

Ski-Bop-Bop-Ba-Dop-Bop

Mastigos

I seem to remember something from 1e stating they were mostly Moros.

But there's also a good case for Mastigos, or perhaps even Obrimos.

Can we please not devolve back into Mage faggotry

Martial law in the USA soon. Get ready.

Well gosh, user. You might as well ask for world peace while you're at it!

Uhhh, what?

Quick, post the ability + attribute combo you've used the most.

Legacyfag, rejoin the CofD discord so I can talk to you some more about running Mage games. Basically need to get stuff hashed out.

what film soundtrack would be appropriate for CtL?

Done.

I can only imagine how terrible werewolves must smell

So what's the leading feel of every splat?
>Vampire: Melancholia
>Werewolf: Anger, frustration
>Mage: Curiosity
>Wraith: Grief
>Changeling: Wistfulness

How are (you)r chronicles going user? Anything noteworthy positive or negative? My group just finished up a session of our Einherjar (Kindred vikings) game that was pretty fun, albeit we didn't get much done in comparison to previous sessions.

Strength+Medicine.

Anal fisting check.

My VtR game is set in the 80's and the coterie is going to be looking for an antagonist from months ago in game who was killed and mysteriously ressurected and given a sword that can inflict sunlight damage to vampires. And also hunting down escaped malkavia sufferers

they could make half the game consist of Goofy knockoff characters trying to kill people

Wits+Stealth. That or Str+Weaponry.

Early enlightenment monster hunting is all about the ambush.

>Tell me about your current character.

My mage character is a former Cobra Kai who got out of the teen gang businesses when all the Cobra kai got their asses handed to them by a small asian man.

He got in trouble by tagging a store and instead of pressing charges the owner make him work for him. The store was an antique store and the owner was an hermetic mage.

The boy learned from his very unorthodox teacher and awakened into the order of hermes. He could always see spirit (medium merit) so he is technically dual tradition (Hermetic for all his magic, dreamspeaker for the spirit sphere) but as the order of hermes dont recognize his and his teacher way as the "proper form" he is of lower rank of what he should be afforded.

When he was 18, the boy joined the House Flambeu as he always had a incredibly affinity with Fire magic (specialty sphere fire and Mastery of fire merit) but little to no interest in the Ascension War and was secretly happy when both side just stopped giving fucks about it. He just wants to reads his books and attends his store.

However when a problem get put in his front yard, the problems gets solved.......and there is no escape to that. So far mage life got interesting from finding out what he tough was his girlfriend was in truth a ghost, fighting defeating a werewolf in hand to hand combat, destroying HIT-marks once he figure out counterspells doesnt apply to indirect damage and melting a Primium vault in Station Victoria with the best roll of his life. Killing a woman he traumatized by accident to protect the majestic beast that is the sentient pink triceratops who is mechanic there. Life keeps getting interesting.

Presence + persuasion most likely. That or presence + expression

(OP)
Current character is a ceremonial magic thaumaturge who through a botched ritual became partly connected to a weird part of the shadow and lost his memory in the process.

After spending a few years in a mental institution, he left alongside an Obrimos mage (who was institutionalized after his awakening) who convinced the vampire psychiatrist they should be allowed to leave.

>Tell me about your current character.

My current Changeling PC is a ogre/Witch-tooth.

He is a courtless ogre who keeps 3 jobs. A construction worker on the summer, a bouncer on the weekends and works in an occult shop selling atlantean crystals he buys in bulk.

Its isnt that he doesnt want to join a court but he wants to raise his value to the court so they come to him and offer him a sweet deal. A quiet fighter that never brags but tells you that he can kick you ass (NWoD 1s aggressive striking 5, defensive striking 5, ground and pound, heavy hand, grapple, brute force 3, dirty fighting 5, aikido 3, and krav maga 3, lethal mien) is because he can.

Specially good pledge crafter and owner of the Goblin Vow of Booze. He is a moral man that hates the game of influences between the court that go against the purpose of the court system. He want to bring the whole system down and make each court to have roughly the same power so they can cooperate. And he will make drag them kicking and screaming to a better future.

So, working on a RWBY/Old World of Darkness fanfiction crossover thing like the fucking autist that I am. I was wondering if you olderfags could help me out with some of the cosmology and metaphysics and reconcile the two worlds.

Shit like how Aura and Semblances would work with the various Lines, how would the Garou and Changing Breeds would interact with the world, that kind of shit.

Gamelines I'm cramming in;

Vampire the Masquerade

Werewolf the Apocalypse

Changeling the Dreaming

Hunter the Reckoning (maybe, haven't decided)

Mummy the Resurrection

Mages will not be a major player as their End Times scenario was the one where everyone got shunted to their ideal world and everyone got what they wanted because let's face it throw Mages at any world where they're bound to one planet and it'd be like every magefag conversation ever; mages faceroll everything.

What do you guys say? At the very least direct me somewhere I could talk about this shit.

I can help you with one half of this discussion.

The RWBY half.

Dude I would take any help that I can get on this. I am current on the show, and I know a shit ton about Vampire, Hunter, and Werewolf. Learning more about Mummy and Changeling.

>mage
one/two mages Ozpin and Salem

>werewolf/changing breeds
mutation/variation of faunus

>Vampire
form of grimm (human grimm?)

>Hunters
obv. the hunstmen are hunters and the aura/semblances are the hunter powers.

>Changelings
?????

>Mummy
the season witches, powerful but focused in scope

Just from general knowledge I would say you would have a tough time adapting it so broadly. I could see how to do it in Chronicles of Darkness. The Grimm would be spirits drawn to negative emotions, Dust could be something like tass that enables specific kinds of magic, while Salem would be an Abyssal of some sort, and Ozpin would be a Supernal being, or a conveniently cursed Archmaster . The Huntsman and Huntresses would have something like Mage Armor and powers from other Merits, but I would model them closer to Hunters.

But oWoD is far more over the place. You could inject Vampires as a kind of Grimm, Changelings as Faunus, and so on, but beyond that, I'm stumped.

The way I'm doing the crossover is that everyone's apocalypse scenario happened, and that some of the dudes who made it got shunted to Remnant because of coincidental BS that I have yet to elucidate.

that makes this significantly easier

>the season witches

The fuck are those

The Maidens

right yeah, meant maidens not witches, haven't watched it in a while

No weebs please

Shoo

What are the laws in your Changeling Freeholds?
I'm working on a setting for nWoD CtL where the Sun and Moon court are lead by the Town Judge and Mayor respectively in a small mountain town in the 80s, so I'd like to have a few more Freehold Laws written down than necessary for flavor

"Don't talk to the Gentry or Loyalists" and the basic Masquerade that every splat has an equivalent of are easy enough to cover, but what would you impliment?

I'm also working on a few like "Owls are under the protection of the Winter Court, owls fall under the care and responsibility of Owly Hooterson of the Winter Court" and as filler, so random rules in general

Manipulation + Streetwise

Senpai, you've GOT TO check out my Mixtape

So, I just got the time of ending books to go through each line to pick a scenario (or make one of my own) to put for each splat. Starting with why Mage isn't gonna play a part except for maybe considering Oz as a mage for the sake of how similar to one he is.

Mage: Succesful run of the Judgement scenario, and everyone got what they wanted. Barring the ones who decided to stay and help rebuild the ruins of the Old World.

Vampire: New Scenario; just before Tzimisce devours the world, Cain asks the big guy for forgiveness and is forgiven, the Kindred who didn't get nommed and found Cain along with all the non Kindred who followed them are spared and left to rebuild. Cain is allowed through the pearly gates and any Kindred who wish to join him is as well, Kindred who wish to become mortal again do, the ones who don't remain cursed. Perhaps the remaining Kindred that wish to continue their Unlives found a way to go to a new world away from the eyes of God.

Werewolf: Modded Weaver Ascendant; there are still some Garou and Fera that still live, a lot of totem spirits and corrupted changers are purified and reborn. However, Gaia and the Wyld shunted some Garou, Fera, and their Kinfolk off to Remnant. These ones would think that the Old World is long dead and that they had failed and were sent to a new world to redeem themselves (or something to that effect)

Changeling: Gods and Monsters with the remaining Fae and Mortals being on good terms after the biggest Return of the King moment ever along with a victory so badass that people would be talking about it for centuries. Some of the Commoners who died and MOST of the Sidhe that died found themselves in Remnant, bound to new bodies as Changelings

Mummy: Apophis ascends and gets his and his minions asses collectively handed to them in the beginning days of the Time of Judgement, with the Amenti going off to help the other Lines with their shit. The ones who still remain are out to help build the new world

Mummies would see where some people wound up (Remnant) and try their hand at making some Amenti to aid them just in case. Out of the thousands who had the chance, only two Amenti of Remnant are created.

Now leaves the hard part. I'm thinking of starting the story where the show does, with merely hinting at some of the changes. Now I just have to figure out what those changes are.

Anyone have any ideas?

I'm a scatman.

What's the link ?

To the discord? Google it.

I guess so yeah ...

Are Hunters a lesser template for the purpose of counting as sleepwalkers?

If they have a supernatural merit.

Are Endowments supernatural merits?

If this was CofD I'd be a lot more help, but Banality should be less of a problem. I bet Grimm would come off as tainted by the Wyrm, so that gives Garou something to do. It seems likely Vampires could use Animalism on Grimm which opens up potential storyhooks.

You know, the Time of Judgement books actually weren't really that helpful. Mage, by virtue of focusing on one main scenario (the rest are crap) had one decent one that resolved the entire metaplot. The rest were just afterthoughts and kind of shitty.

The Vampire one was a mess, though. The only ending where the protagonists do anything useful is the Last Church scenario, where they're stuck in a church. In all the others, it's nonsensical shit. ALL of them are literally "Ancient vampires show up. BAM, now they're dead because someone killed them off-screen." Or then there's the one which is "Shepherd Saulot out of the whole mess, NPC resolves everything."

Wasn't there, I dunno, a better way to do this? (Surprisingly the Werewolf book was pretty good.)

I'm pretty inexperienced in storytelling and even playing WoD but I read a ton of the books since I love the universe and stories about most of the settings.

I've really fallen in love with the Promethean books, and want to run the campaign in the book to try out being a ST and to help my friends explore the world. I was thinking about only running a small group though, namely 2 friends who I think would interact really well with the world. I think 2 people would be ideal due to my inexperience and Promthean from what I've read being a fairly difficult game to run and play.

Are there any tips and tricks you guys have that'll help me set up and run the game well? Also any help for a first time ST, who's been a GM and player in different systems before.

Giving some rules guidelines on leaving entering Hedge. What's Freehold's policy on "gotcha pledges?" How obedient are Changelings expected to be towards their leader? Does Freehold feel need to police dreamweaving to prevent abuse?

Menacing

If a True Fae's Title(s) revolved around unnecessary and compulsive benevolence, would it be possible to befriend it?

No. It might befriend you but it would never see you as anything else but tool to satisfy its compulsion. And it would be totally capable of killing you with kindness.

That would go against its story though. It can't harm you in any way, only smother you.

It doesn't *want* to keep you locked away in a manse, it *has* to. For your own good.

Or rather, yes but getting it to be able to experience friendship and attachment? By then it will start losing its powers. By the time it would consider you best friend it would have developed false memories of human life and live as a low wage worker at local 7/11.

How do you guys handle cash in VtM? Setting up a V20 game for some friends and one of them wanted to get a nice car, he had three dots in Resources so I thought it was fair for him to have it because his character didn't really care about anything else but the car.
Should I give him more capital for 3 Resources or is just entirely up to me? The core book didn't really talk about money at any point nor how much shit costs.

It could ruin you from malnutrition (veggies bad, candy make happy and is good!), ruin your kidneys by literally mainlining alcohol into your bloodstream... True Fae concept of kindness isn't necessarily pleasant or kind.

>How do you guys handle cash in VtM? Setting up a V20 game for some friends and one of them wanted to get a nice car, he had three dots in Resources so I thought it was fair for him to have it because his character didn't really care about anything else but the car.
>Should I give him more capital for 3 Resources or is just entirely up to me? The core book didn't really talk about money at any point nor how much shit costs.

Stuff like money is honestly better suited to being edited on a case-by-case basis. Avoid stuff like "this car has a value of [INSERT ARBITRARY NUMBER HERE]". Instead, going by the Resources or whatever they have available, let them fill in the blanks themselves. When you're running a VtM game, cash in itself isn't as important as you'd think. Contacts, favours and reputation are FAR more valuable.

At Resources 1 you can still say they've got the money/whatever to get a working car, but it's not particularly pretty in any way, and it's certainly no racehorse. It'd be sufficient for driving to work and back, but not much else. Emphasis on it being cheap, but not being a literal scrap-heap that's going to break down just by looking at it funny. This is because Resources 1 is still an upgrade from living on the street or living a hand-to-mouth existence. It's working class, basically, and depending on the country, LOTS of working class have cars.

Then, just scale it up. So, at Resources 3 he'd be able to get a very decent car, especially if he's not spending money on much else. Resources 3 indicates a person who's got credit, with cash to burn. Not someone living in luxury and decadence, but still well off.

So, unless he's asking for something like a SWAT truck or the best available model of a racecar intended for millionaires, I'd find it easy to justify him getting the car he wants. Don't bother with exactly how much it cost in actual currency, just say that it cost him a few months' income/salary, something like that.

>Menacing

More Menacing

No, that's so over the top it's obviously kinda cheesy prank.
Are you Lost? -sign looks too formal, official, and it's inexplicable purpose creates sense of menace.

So I am thinking about making a Demon.
He was designed as Psychopomp built to oversee completion of Occult Matrix and directing its output, but before he could fulfill his purpose a Linchpin (Stigmatic or some suberverted Supernatural) attacked and disabled him in fit of jealousy. Catalyzed by betrayal, now craving purpose, revenge, and understanding he would seek out local Demonic community for direction. Dual Agenda: Inquisitor/Integrator

Newcomer question.

Where are the most up-to-date iterations of the setting's core rules found, and what game lines are fully compatible with them?

For CofD, CofD is most up to date core rules. Compatible with VtR 2e, DtD, WtF 2e, MtAw 2e, PtC 2e, and BtP but we don't talk about the last one. CtL is getting 2e (currently in kickstarter).
No idea about Classical World of Darkness.

Quick translation if you have no idea what those mean:
CofD= Chronicles of Darkness, second edition of New World of Darkness.
VtR= Vampire the Requiem
DtD= Demon the Descent
WtF= Werewolf the Forsaken
MtAw= Mage the Awakening
PtC= Promethean the Created
BtP= Beast the Primordial
CtL= Changeling the Lost
MtR= Mummy the Returned
DtR= Deviant the Renegades
2e= Second Edition

Nice, thanks.

Ah there is one more but it's second edition is still in development: GtSE= Geist the Sin-Eater.

Cool.

Another quick question. I'm reading through the Vampire book now, and I've got to ask, has there been a complete rewrite or something? Like, not just the mechanical stuff, but the actual setting? I've never played World of Darkness on the table, but like everyone and their mum I've played Bloodlines and I've been going through lorebooks, and I can't help but notice that this seems completely different.

New World Of Darkness (AKA Chronicles of Darkness) is a different setting, basically like a spirtual sequel.

Bloodlines is set in Old/Classic World of darkness.

Theere are obviously similarities between Owod and nwod, since the latter was based on the former and they were both made by white wolf.

New World of Darkness is total reboot of Classical World of Darkness.
Requiem is probably most similar CofD version of oWoD gameline, Vampire the Masquerade, and was disliked for its "cowardice." VtR 2e tried to separate itself further.

what film soundtrack would be appropriate for CtL?

Urgh, okay. I guess I'm running Werewolf since the Requiem Vampire stuff seems kinda shit tier compared to the older lore. I can see at a glance that the Werewolf stuff is different too, now that I look, but it actually seems much better.

So many ‘RPGs’ today are not really role playing games but ‘system games’

The "New" World of Darkness was made to, among other things, circumvent the maze of metaplot that had followed the original "Classic" World of Darkness. Let's use Vampire as an example...

See, Classic WoD had stuff that evolved between books; cities that were lost and reclaimed by factions, very noteworthy plot-relevant characters that sometimes died, and so on. That made it hard for newer players to actually get into the games if they hadn't bought (and kept buying) all the books.

The New WoD got rid of much of that; it streamlined the game so that people would have a much easier time starting to play with just the core book(s), and cut down on the metaplot.

Like, in Classic WoD, we know for a fact that the Vampiric curse descends from a curse that God gave to Caine. Not everybody believes that in the lore, but that's been confirmed to be the "canon" explanation.

In New WoD, everybody has their own theories on where vampires come from and whatnot, but it's never been confirmed one way or another. Magical mishaps, demons, naturally evolved, curses, etcetera. Nobody knows.

On the downside, this can make for a "boring" world that can seem a bit dull and gray, when compared to Classic WoD. On the upside, it lets the players and Storytellers invent their own ideas and explanations, which they might like better than any metaplot the Devs came up with.

"Bluntness" of Vampire clans, bloodlines, and Covenants is simple to explain too: they were made more broad to fit as many character concepts as possible.

*Blandness

I got a new chapter out, sorry for the delay!

forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/of-family-friends-and-hunting-original-story-set-in-the-new-world-of-darkness.42867/

>See, Classic WoD had stuff that evolved between books; cities that were lost and reclaimed by factions, very noteworthy plot-relevant characters that sometimes died, and so on. That made it hard for newer players to actually get into the games if they hadn't bought (and kept buying) all the books. The New WoD got rid of much of that; it streamlined the game so that people would have a much easier time starting to play with just the core book(s), and cut down on the metaplot.

I feel, just by looking at the differences, that this kinda like whipping out a flamethrower to get rid of a certain type of vine in your garden. I mean, I'm a new player, and I'm not finding any of the lore hard to get into. I'm aware the game has a like a whole bunch of Forgotten Realms-ish questlines with occuring NPCs and stuff, but I'm just reading the lore, not that. I don't see any reason why I'd have to use that if I didn't want to.

I mean, I'm sure the game confirms thing in these questlines, but it seems like all the history and 'canon' is up to the GM to validate or not. What I get from it really is that it provides conflict and rationale behind all ways vampires are supposed to act, why the different organizations exist, etc, and dangles a whole bunch of plot hooks for you to use if you want.

The clans too feel like a case of taking a hacksaw to a problem that required clippers at best. So, I can tell just by flipping between books that Brujah = Daeva. Their powers are the same, and mechanically if I were to replace one with the other, they'd slot right into each other's seats. But the Daeva are just less interesting. I can see that it's an attempt to make the classes more broad, so people have more freedom, but... I can't think of anything I could make with a Daeva that I couldn't make with a Brujah. If I just want to play a seductive rake of a vampire with counter-culture theme, then surely I could just make a Brujah like that. So Daeva... Brujah with less stuff.

>with counter-culture theme

*without a counter-culture theme

I mean, surely there are members of this clan that aren't punk rockers, they can't literally all be like that. Even if solely because people change with time.

>So, I can tell just by flipping between books that Brujah = Daeva
Toreador = Daeva. It's one of their Bloodlines now. Brujah = Gangrel. The former again being one of the latter's Bloodlines.

Nothing is stopping you making your Brujah character in Requiem they are just more of a character that token.

Wait what? Daeva have the exact same clan powers as Brujah. I mean I can see how Toreador have been folded into the seductive vampires niche, but mechnaically Daeva are Brujah. That said, I feel like you could make a character that could be either Brujah/Toreador in Masquerade or Daeva in Requiem and they could be almost exactly the same guy, but that just means there's the same mechanical options (or maybe slightly less in Requiem? Toreador have different favored powers and flaws after all) with less history and lore. If you made the guy in Masquerade you'd be making the same dude but choosing between different powers and clan links, clan history and such being something that seems pretty absent from Requiem so far.

Yeah, no sir, I do not like how these guys have updated their game.

By the way, I just checked out Beast after that warning above. The fuck? Did this company have a collective aneurysm or something? First they gut the lore for their most well known game, then they push out something like this? I'm actually tempted to include one of these things in a Werewolf game as an antagonist, just so I can watch the players kill it.

How difficult would it be to play a game of Demon themed to resemble Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance? Not as a joke, but a real game.

>Both series involve a world set in motion by AI meddling, currently dystopian and spinning out of control
>Almost all antagonists are some kind of unique robot-monster
>Core themes of both involve rebellion against one's purpose, memetic control, and the question of what the fuck can be done about it.
>If any serious fight breaks out in either, it's going to be incredibly destructive and end quickly. Or a larger force will notice and snuff everyone out.
>Neither game really ends optimistically, but it's possible to prevent things from getting worse at least.

Nobody seems to know how Demon should be run aside from Person of Interest and The Matrix, but this could be a fun way.

The New World of Darkness was an attempt to unfuck themselves. The RPG games market was tanking and the White Wolf model of releasing a zillion books a month that was mostly wanking their setting and metaplot NPCs with a few new powers put in because exasperated writers knew that their plebian customer base would really only buy new books for new powers instead of their metaplot advancing blowjobs to their super special metaplot npcs in book form. Their most well known game wasn't selling so good and they were going the way of TSR.

But Beast really shouldn't surprise. When they were White Wolf they were always out that side. Back in the 90s instead of tumblr shit it was stuff like the Children of Gaia being a bunch of tree-hugging fags and big corporations cutting down the rainforest and woo-woo Indians being spiritually pure noble savages and shit like that.

I think Metal Gear is bit more of Deviant the Renegades but theoretically more loose Demon Chronicle could support it.

>Deviant: The Renegades presents a game where the victims of experiments band together to bring down the monolithic organizations that twisted and warped them.

Huh. Deviant is EXACTLY Metal Gear Rising.

Although I'd fucking love to steal the plot for a TF:V game. Vampire Patriots are behind everything.

>The New World of Darkness was an attempt to unfuck themselves. The RPG games market was tanking and the White Wolf model of releasing a zillion books a month that was mostly wanking their setting and metaplot NPCs with a few new powers put in because exasperated writers knew that their plebian customer base would really only buy new books for new powers instead of their metaplot advancing blowjobs to their super special metaplot npcs in book form.

I can see that logic. It just seems like a huge overreaction to me. I mean, couldn't they have kept the interesting stuff but just... stopped doing the metaplot? Like the new edition just turns back the clock and they never introduce all these FR-esque characters and such? Lore =/= metaplot, you can have one without the other.

The new clans and organizations just seem shallow, boring, and in the latter case often pretty contrived compared to the old. I read about the four big Requiem vampire organizations you can choose from just two or so hours ago and there are two that, for life of me, I already could not tell you which is which, they're both so bland and tasteless.

Then again, I'm flipping between so many PDFs right now that it's possible my brain isn't retaining information at its best.

>When they were White Wolf they were always out that side.

What side? The problem with Beast so far is that it seems to 1. make no fucking sense, 2. be completely weirdly, stupidly smug about everything, and 3. be mechanically confused as fuck. Dear Lord, are there even more problems when you get deeper into this terrible book?

>theoretically more loose Demon Chronicle could support it.

>I have a dream.

>That one day every person in this nation will control their own destiny. A land of the truly free, dammit. A nation of action, not words, ruled by strength, not committee! Where the law changes to suit the individual, not the other way around. Where power and justice are back where they belong: in the hands of the people! Where every man is free to think - to act - for himself!

>Fuck all these limp-dick Elders and chickenshit Seers. Fuck this 24-hour Internet spew of trivia and celebrity bullshit! Fuck American pride! Fuck ADAMSKI! FUCK ALL OF IT!

>This world is diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving it - we need to pull it out by the Infrastructure. Wipe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN! And from the ashes, a new world will be born. Evolved, but untamed! The weak will be purged and the strongest exalted - free to live as they see fit, they'll make this world great again!

>In my new world, people will die and kill for what they BELIEVE! Not for money. Not for politics! Not for what they're told is right. Every man will be free to fight his own wars!

>I can see that logic. It just seems like a huge overreaction to me. I mean, couldn't they have kept the interesting stuff but just... stopped doing the metaplot? Like the new edition just turns back the clock and they never introduce all these FR-esque characters and such? Lore =/= metaplot, you can have one without the other

This would have been so much worse, you have no idea what that would have caused in the White Wolf fanbase. In all honestly, the negative reaction to nWoD was the best case scenario, actually fucking around with oWoD proper would have killed them dead.

You have to understand, in the 90s, Lore WAS Metaplot. Because of settings like Dragonlance and the promise of multimedia, you tied the lore to the metaplot, and occasionally the actual mechanics and game choices to the metaplot. Metaplot was a love/hate kind of deal, but it was watercooler talk fodder and it helped people who actually dumped money into these books feel invested. It was, in part, why White Wolf fans were loyal and batshit crazy.

Part of why nWoD was considered kind of tepid in setting was because the original plan was to do exactly what you said. When the line matured, the fluff became much better, and 2e is mostly continuing this trend, save for Beast.

I dunno man, I was playing stuff in the 90's and I rarely drew on metaplot characters. That said, I can completely imagine some fanbases might react monumentally poorly to seeing all the metaplot essentially torn down filed away as a complete story so its setting can get a clean slate. I guess they were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

>When the line matured, the fluff became much better

Gonna have to disagree in the case of Vampire, but Werewolf does indeed seem much better. I glanced though some Apocalypse lore entries and it seems like laughable shit. The new version actually has pretty engaging fluff.

I think what I'll do for now is run a Werewolf game, and spend some time moving all the old Vampire stuff into the new mechanics. Not all of it, obviously, but as much as I'd need to run a game.

And I think I will be using a Beast as an antagonist for the Were game. They really just fucking rub me the wrong way. It's not the idea of them, it's how they're written. They're one of the most blatant and shallow power fantasies I've seen in some time.

Beast is like the purest aspects of all of White Wolf's bad habits, both in oWoD and nWoD: hamfisted social commentary in a power fantasy with unjustified wangst. They're not even worth using as NPCs, imo, and honestly you can just delete them from the setting entirely. Anything a Beast can do as a Forsaken antagonist, a Pure can do better.

As for Vampire, your taste is your taste, but I think the clan and covenant books really did a lot for Requiem. Belial's Brood is still a surprisingly good book.

Which splats throws the best parties? For reasons.

>I read about the four big Requiem vampire organizations you can choose from just two or so hours ago and there are two that, for life of me, I already could not tell you which is which, they're both so bland and tasteless
But the Cam/Sabbat/BH was worse.

>hamfisted social commentary

Urgh I can kinda see it now. This game is all about abused kids becoming dysfunctional monsters, isn't it? That's not a bad theme (actually I can see some of that in Werewolf), but it's just... fucking atrociously written. They feel like Otherkin too. Which is... it shouldn't technically be a bad thing. Like, the concept of a human having a dragon soul or whatever should not be a bad thing for an RPG; the bad thing is believing you have one in real life. But there's something weird and smug about the writing that makes Beasts feel like Otherkin even if their condition is real.

I dunno, there's something viscerally wrong about the writing and it makes me want to include one out of spite. I just want to see one of these things die.

>mfw I accidentally make it too powerful and it solos my players.

>Belial's Brood is still a surprisingly good book

I'll look into it. Right now I've been stepping back and comparing the lore in their core books, since that's the majority of what I'd be using at first.

Geniuses. Just look at Rick

Sin-Eaters party for two and throw generation-spanning parties. Who parties harder than the dead?

Guy said splats not disgusting fanfiction.