Do drop pods speed up to slam the earth, or slow down to prevent what is literally worse than falling from space

Aren't the Primaris Inceptors capable of low orbit reentry?

everything to do with their lore it stupid.
but possibly but gw doesn't really understand these things and makes it sound impressive.

Yes, which is why they are so bulky.

fuck sorry still shaking off a bit of yesturday's hang over.
1. the lore is stupid
2. gw doesn't quite grasp the implications in universe and logistically in producing suits that can drop from low orbit without aid of atmospheric craft

Don't think of it as firing rockets to slow down to land, think of it as shooting the ground before landing.

GW didn't exactly invent the concept. I've seen orbital paratroopers in other fiction. Also, you got a jetpack on your back, what makes you think they'll be coming in fast enough to cause lots of friction in the atmosphere?

>2. gw doesn't quite grasp the implications in universe and logistically in producing suits that can drop from low orbit without aid of atmospheric craft
eh, use an ablative shell to deal with the atmosphere and some jump, grav, or even parachute gubbins to get you down. hell, use a bunch of foam grenades for landing. you're a space marine, you can take a rough landing, and even baseline humans can sometimes withstand a terminal velocity fall if they're lucky. you have faith in the emperor and purity seals to increase your drag.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOOSE

>ou think they'll be coming in fast enough to cause lots of friction in the atmosphere?
I didn't i was figuring the relative cost of those suits compared to other marine gear was prohibitively expensive for the military use they present.
this is already a setting where termie armour is so difficult to produce it's treated like a venerable relic and some chapters don't even have operational suits at all.
and how what we have is suits that are more complicated, more expensive and really not all that necessarily when you think about it.
also how do you think they maintain the fuel needed for prolonged engagements after the drop (because their main method of drop is through debris requiring a lot of maneuvering ahead of time.)
everything about them rubs me the wrong way

>everything about them rubs me the wrong way

Sure thing, Khorne.

Anyway, why do you think it requires some super special stuff to accomplish? Again, you don't need heat shields if you're coming in slow enough. Even at few times the speed of sound you're not going to ignite into a fire ball. Since you're jumping from low orbit, you're not gonna be picking up lots of speed before hitting the atmosphere and slowing down.

You do realize those nozzles on Marine backpacks are thrusters for space maneuvering, right? The actual exhausts are the vents at the bottom. That's why, for example, Sisters don't have those vents at the top because their suits aren't even environmentally sealed. Marines don't carry tons of fuel for those. So, when jump packs got massive nozzles on them, you think they're burning through gallons of jet fuel, or are they being powered by something else, like their power packs?

>Sure thing, Khorne.
I do play WE so full points for that.

>Anyway, why do you think it requires some super special stuff to accomplish?
Are they not based on the New !not terminator armour?
and my comments about terminator armour being a logistic nightmare
hell power armour being an annoying complex thing to produce. so you have a new non-STC armour, designed for a very niche combat roll that is assuming the (above is correct) difficult to manufacture, maintain and supply.

>You do realize those nozzles on Marine backpacks are thrusters for space maneuvering, right?
I forgot they had them all together few people play prims where i play.

>So, when jump packs got massive nozzles on them, you think they're burning through gallons of jet fuel,
I don't work at any air and space research group. So being able to determine the amount of fuel require to both maneuver in orbit and slow reentry to avoid a lethal impact is a bit beyond me.
at the very least it doesn't fit might intuitive grasp of it being also enough for a prolonged engagement on the ground.
but at that point it's just conjecture

>Are they not based on the New !not terminator armour?

The one with 3+ armour save and no inv. save?

>hell power armour being an annoying complex thing to produce. so you have a new non-STC armour, designed for a very niche combat roll that is assuming the (above is correct) difficult to manufacture, maintain and supply.

You'd think something like Stormravens and Centurions would be more complex to manufacture than a new suit of power armour, and those are relatively new additions to Marine arsenals.

>determine the amount of fuel require to both maneuver in orbit and slow reentry to avoid a lethal impact is a bit beyond me.

Assuming you don't have any noticeable horizontal velocity when you jump, then all you have to do is fire the thrusters enough to keep yourself from reaching speeds above several times the speed of sound. We got jets that can fly at such speeds and they're not bursting into flames. Seeing that mere backpack thrusters can move around a regular space marine and help a primaris one descend (Reivers), it shouldn't be that big of a task from the large assembly of thrusters Inceptors have. Once you start entering the atmosphere, you just have to keep yourself stable and come down just like an assault marine jumping from a high altitude thunderhawk. From there on out, they can operate just like regular assault marines.

>The one with 3+ armour save and no inv. save?
yes the one that gives +1T and is listed in their keywords
"INFANTRY, JUMP PACK, MK X GRAVIS, PRIMARIS, FLY, INCEPTOR SQUAD"

>You'd think something like Stormravens and Centurions would be more complex to manufacture than a new suit of power armour, and those are relatively new additions to Marine arsenals.
I believe both are STC things, i know the centurion is. This makes these things easy to produce because you have the template . This is cawl homebrew it's not necessarily as simply as dumping a load of metal into a vat and letting the machine follow it's automation.
There's also supposed be a lot of new tech in those things which should keep supply difficult.
but it also comes down to the raw fact that people don't need a lot of storm ravens and centurions to make an effective planet fall force. you need more than just like 3-6 interceptors to make it to the surface to deal with the anti air emplacements.

>regarding the physics.
i'm not sure about that because they often have to get to and hid within orbital debris but you seems to know the physics better than i do so I'll concede
i also have no idea what's up with the rievers and shit but i don't see many codex marines arround

>This makes these things easy to produce because you have the template.

Power armour marks don't have an STC. Land Speeders have an STC for the grav plates, the rest if made up. Macharius and Ragnarok don't have an STC. Thunderer doesn't have an STC. Some Vanquisher variants don't have an STC.

Why do you think the Imperium is unable to make blueprints for something that can then be built elsewhere?

>dumping a load of metal into a vat and letting the machine follow it's automation.

You have no idea what an STC is, do you?

>Why do you think the Imperium is unable to make blueprints for something that can then be built elsewhere?
Well since you brought up the vanquisher after the fall of "insert nobody cares forgeworld" which was the only place that produced one right. others not so much.
also same goes for the shadow sword and it's targeting equipment, only mars.
It's simple, 40k is full of political dicks who would want to force people into buying only from their place. and even if they wanted to data is hard to transfer thanks to the galaxy being fucked.
hell the mach is a bootleg shareware thing passed around to poor forgeworlds who cannot afford a baneblade stc to regiments who lack the clout to have one.
this is also non marine tech.

But i think you've failed something down the way.
marine armour is fucking expensive which is why it's often repaired until it's a complete hodgepodge See artificer armour's original explanation and while still produced it's numbers aren't massive and there's a lot of political decisions that go into it.
but we are talking about TERMINATOR ARMOUR
and not just TERMINATOR ARMOUR
very specific special modifications that need to be carefully maintained so as not to kill the wearer, serves a very small battlefield roll and would likely see some of the highest casualty rates and thus Armour failure rates among all marine suits.
it's why imperial fags don't get the sweet sweet kryos

>You have no idea what an STC is, do you?
I think you might be mistaken friend, what i'm indicating is there is a clear difference between having a blueprint that your technology , your religion and your entire planet is geared around working with this specific data set.
but if you want me to go into more rigid detail
"The STC was an advanced, artificially intelligent computer data storage and FABRICATION system" (it allways helps to double check)

point is, one can more easily work with the STC than other things or else terminator Armour would be everywhere

to clarify the poltical reasons is why imperial fags to not get the SWEET SWEET KYROS.
not terminator plate.
but yeah, you have armour where it needs to be rigeriously maintained to avoid fucking up at the worst possible time, it has more costly and new technology compared to terminator Armour and in all honesty, whose entire reason to be could be fulfilled by the teleporter on a suit of termie Armour.

>Well since you brought up the vanquisher after the fall of "insert nobody cares forgeworld" which was the only place that produced one right.

After which several forge worlds have been making alternative versions of the gun, with varying success.

>data is hard to transfer

Yet things like Macharius, Stormravens, etc. are widespread.

>this is also non marine tech.

I'm pretty sure power armour is very much "marine tech". There's also the Predator Annihilator, Land Raider Crusader and Redeemer, etc.

>marine armour is fucking expensive

And where exactly does it say there's 15 million Inceptors? Of course it's expensive, that's why it's not widespread. You got 1 space marine per Imperial planet. There's probably 1 Inceptor per Imperial sector.

>we are talking about TERMINATOR ARMOUR

No, we're talking about Inceptors and their gravis armour, which is NOT terminator armour.

>(it allways helps to double check)

Not from 40k wiki. Maybe go read the 8e rulebook on what the STC is, because "fabrication" is not part of it. It's only a database. There is no machine that magically makes what you tell it to.

>point is, one can more easily work with the STC than other things or else terminator Armour would be everywhere

You got a bunch of medieval monks with instructions on how to make a nuclear powered suit of power armour. Even with all the tools, it'll take some time to make. And the more complex the design and materials needed (such as the adamantium skeleton of the terminator armour), the more difficult it is to make.

Also, terminator armour is not STC, it was designed during the Horus Heresy, just like all the power armour marks.

The reason Imperium has such a boner for STCs is because they're often way better than what can be designed in 40k era, offer insight into new technologies (see the grav-plate STC that enabled land speeders), and there's a sense of holiness associated with STCs.

>entire reason to be could be fulfilled by the teleporter on a suit of termie Armour.

Primaris don't have terminator armour and since it's already difficult to make regular terminator armour, how do you suppose they'll make a whole host of primaris terminator armour? A bulky power armour seems to be much easier to make.

Also, those Inceptors are able to move faster once on the ground than terminators, and since they're able to launch from space, they're probably also capable of operating in space more easily than, say, Assault Marines.

Clearly they are SCIENCED to smash right into the planet while the inside is barely effected. I mean they have artificial gravity.

physics
terminal velocity
slows down so the stares inside arnt turned into jello

>After which several forge world...
yes they've been trying to reverse engineer it. it's just like how ryse produced the best plasma technology and cynis or whatever was pissed about it.
technology is not universally shared

>Yet things like Macharius, Stormravens...
the stc for the stormraven was found by a bloodraven who shared it with everyone i think.
and the mach is trash compared to a baneblade.
technology travels easily proportionally to how valuable it is to the admech in 40k. funny enough this is why mortis naughts, and all those weird Dangel stuff doesn't get spread around.
i mean it's like your are trying to slip hairs here

>I'm pretty sure power armour is very much "marine tech".
i was referring to 2/3rds of your examples.
>LDC,LDR and PA
1.LDC - was so easy to do the BT were able to mod their LRs to do this, it's not manufacture. this thing can spread from chapter to chapter.
2.LDR again easy enough a chapter was able to do this themselves.
3.PA - the admech which have all been given STC of marine shit because of the GC and everything finally learned an alternate function.
i think you also forget how much admech hordes stuff where it can.
I also don't get what you are trying to argue.

>You got 1 space marine per Imperial planet.
less than one.

>And where exactly does it say there's 15 million Inceptors?
never argued that

>There's probably 1 Inceptor per Imperial sector.
then there is often too few of them to complete their goals eh?
they are a vanguard planetstrike force designed to walk into AA to clear the way for drop pods. i mean they also have to be replaced because of high losses during those types of fights and all the other things i listed.

>Not from 40k wiki.
don't push goalposts faggot
>implying you didn't rush over there a bunch of times
nigger i know you did or lexicannum.

>Maybe go read the 8e rulebook on what the STC is,
nah I own from RT to 8th the minuta changing over the last couple editions haven't really drawn me in.
I've been playing long enough that the beats don't change.

>There is no machine that magically makes what you tell it to.
which is why I prefaced it with the discussion of how forgworlds operate (of course very surface level.)
so you have a planet who religion is based arround the STC, who survived the old night by orienting themselves with the technology that works with stc and spend most of there time producing items that are via the STC. to say they aren't best equipped to work along an STC line as opposed to a bootleg template or more complex systems is not a difficult claim to accept.

>And the more complex the design and materials needed (such as the adamantium skeleton of the terminator armour), the more difficult it is to make.
if you are arguing the gravis made for space entry is more difficult than terminator armour then you might have lost me. otherwise i don't see a problem here

>Also, terminator armour is not STC, it was designed during the Horus Heresy, just like all the power armour marks.
i never indicated it was.
you have two hard to produce items, one uses more difficult things than the others.

>Primaris don't have terminator armour and since it's already difficult to make regular terminator armour
then i think we are going to have to go into what gravis armour is
i"ve gone to the dex for this and the only source i can really find is:
"More mobile than the heavily armoured Centurions due to their
sophisticated Gravis armour,"
No idea where i put my 8th ed though, would have thought the dex would produce more

>assault marines
uh yeah, they aren't really designed for space all that much, there is a reason marines use breachers,and boarding craft for assaulting ships and Assault marines use atmospheric craft.

>If you arm a space marine with heat resistant armor and shielding, could they also just fall from space unharmed?
terminator armour? sure, that'd survive the fall

the occupant would either die immediately or be horrifically injured, though

>mortis naughts

But just about everyone gets mortis dreadnoughts.

>it's not manufacture

Those things are a variant on their own with different marks, come with a whole new weapon (hurricane bolters) and do plenty of changes to the old models (which is why it can transport more people.

>the admech which have all been given STC of marine shit

Power armour does not have an STC. It was all designed and built during the Great Crusade.

>less than one.

Pic related.

>never argued that
>then there is often too few of them to complete their goals eh?

Then what are you arguing? You think that's enough terminators to get teleported onto a planet to take care of shit?

>walk into AA

You do realize the reason Marines use drop pods is because they can get down onto the planet surface fast enough to avoid AA? So why would Inceptors have more problems, they're even smaller.

>don't push goalposts faggot
>implying you didn't rush over there a bunch of times
>nigger i know you did or lexicannum.

I'm sorry, what?

>nah I own from RT to 8th the minuta changing over the last couple editions haven't really drawn me in.
>I've been playing long enough that the beats don't change.

What? I'm telling you to go read the 8e rulebook on the STC fluff, which is pretty much the same as the RT one, and neither of them mention anything about STC having the capability to fabricate anything. It's just a database that tells you how to make things. That 40k wiki articles is bullshit.

>bootleg template or more complex systems

Seeing that even many of the "STC" templates are mere scraps the Admech had to make into working order, this doesn't make much sense. There are no complete STC schematics, they're all fragments, and thus the Admech has to jury rig them into a working product.

>But just about everyone gets mortis dreadnoughts.
Really?
that was a DA exclusive from what i remember up till 6-7
they get AA and the whole shebang like in HH?

>Those things are a variant on their own with different marks,
they just remove the lascannons and all the shit that goes with it that frees up a lot of space.
whatever the case may be by the lore itself they are NOT so complex that a chapter with limited manufacturing if any could produce the equipment to mod the LR

>Power armour does not have an STC. It was all designed and built during the Great Crusade.
I was talking about vehicles
how did you even?
this is even part of a comment on the PA and explain how it got spread arround.
>Pic related.
god i need to go digging arround to find the less than one it's been too long.

>Then what are you arguing? You think that's enough terminators to get teleported onto a planet to take care of shit?
generally no. what i am arguing is in a pinch they could do the job better really.
>You do realize the reason Marines use drop pod..
yes and, the entire reason the incepters existed was explained to me that they sneak in and do the same job as a drop pod and some how provide fire support to drop pods. which include their own fire support variant and devastators and what have you.
I figured they were deployed first to reduce possible deaths via AA because marines are valuable

>which is pretty much the same as the RT one
i'm going to need a big citation on that, it's been a while but a lot has changed since RT. hell 40k as we know it is more of a product of 3e.

>STC having the capability to fabricate anything. It's just a database that tells you how to make things.
which is why i started around how martian society is more or less designed around the STC and just double checked there because well to be honest physical books do not have Ctrl F and search functions. maybe i should have gone to the mega.

Open wide, you fucking baby.

>then i think we are going to have to go into what gravis armour is
Mass produced artificer equivalents according to GW.

>Using realism and logic in 40k

CEASE

>If you arm a space marine with heat resistant armor and shielding, could they also just fall from space unharmed?

Only if he uses a re-entry condom like the Gundam.

youtube.com/watch?v=4uGfOppQD_g

A lot of the lore treats Space Marines as minor superman, able to just bash their way through reinforced concrete walls for example.

The rockets burn to deorbit, to target, and then for final braking. The pods hit hard enough to kill ordinary humans, but Space Marines are clamped into shock-absorbing structures and also Space Marines.

>If you arm a space marine with heat resistant armour and shielding, could they also just fall from space unharmed?
As in, if you gave them a heatshield and nothing else? Likely not. A heatshield and a drogue chute? Probably.

There was that one Pre-8th playtesting video on WHTV where they were "testing" realistic deep strikes. It did not go well for the drop pod.