/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>Apocalypse was literally the most furry otherkin-pandering primitivist bullshit imaginable.
That would have been Dreaming.

>Apocalypse was literally the most furry otherkin-pandering primitivist bullshit imaginable.

That was generally overlooked due to the more disturbing glorification and arguable encouragement of eco-terrorism.

Many oWOD had a LOT of problems, but Apocalypse as a gameline was the most disturbing when objectively analyzed.

Corrections to info dump about CtL 2e changes: We don't have character creation rules but I am pretty sure it's Seeming first Kith second like in first edition, but they are indeed disconnected.
We have Contract rules. Forum has sneak peek of custom contract rules in homebrew thread. Blog has full list of Steed Contracts.

Dream system and Hedge are also reworked but we haven't seen how yet. Dreams use version Dreamform.

We're missing the most important material, potential Mage crossover rules...

There won't be any. Rose doesn't give crap about your True Fae wannabe jerks to spend precious word count on them.

I would need a balanced Technocratic enemy encounter for my 3 men demon the fallen party, they don't have many points and are basically fresh.

No cheese, just some cool spells or gadgets.

If one wanted to transpose the character of Jackie Estacado to WoD, what kind of splat and accompanying stats would be best fitting to him? The most obvious answer is him being a Lasombra, but that's all thatt my limited knowledge of WoD could say.

Stupid question, but do we have the secrets of the covenants pdf? Can't check until tommorrow.

I'd probably just run him as being possessed by a particularly 'cooperative' seeming inferno demon.

Lasombra would not actually be correct for him, as Jackie, IIRC cannot actually manipulate shadows. He can create stuff out of shadows.

He'd be a Mortal with high Attributes all around, middling Integrity, and lots of dots in Firearms, Brawl, and Weaponry. He would probably have Martial Arts 4, Striking Looks 1, Resources 4, Contacts 4 and Marksmanship 5.

The Darkness itself can be easily represented through a bunch of abilities. When Jackie is in low lighting or complete darkness, he automatically gains a whole bunch of armour, and his Brawl attacks count as L2 weapons. By spending a point of Willpower, Jackie may roll Resolve + Crafts to attack anyone located within a low lighting area with a tide of created claws, fangs, and barbed tendrils, inflicting lethal damage equal to his successes on the roll. If the target is in total darkness, this damage is aggravated.

Can someone explain CofD weapon rules. I have never seen them in action so they are kinda puzzling.

They add additional success to your roll basically, and armor now subtracts like weapons add.

>
>There's definitely an element of traditionalism behind the duty, though. Much like Apocalypse, Forsaken is to an extent about religious fundamentalism, exemplified in the Pure but also present in the way Uratha doggedly adhere to their often impractical codes of conduct.

Problem with that notion is that in Apocalypse there was an actual culture for the Garou and their kinfolks.

There was a net of global resources an information that makes sure that kinfolks and Garou were as brainwashed as possible from birth.

It was like forsaken attitude of "each pack is an island and do things their way", sure they get latitude for a lot but they still had to answer to a superior authority.

Do you think the reason why there hasn't been any mention of a new VtM game from Paradox is because they're waiting for 5th edition to come out, so whomever gets hired for the job makes it in that particular lore-point in the setting?

>There was a net of global resources an information that makes sure that kinfolks and Garou were as brainwashed as possible from birth.

While Uratha aren't quite as brainwashed, there is most certainly an information network that connects individual packs. That's half the purpose of the tribes and lodges; they're connections between packs that allow Uratha to learn, circulate lore, communicate, and approach one another on somewhat common, neutral ground outside of their packs. There's no overall authority but packs that sin heavily against the big rules can easily be ostracized or even attract other packs out to gain renown by punishing them.

So I am torn between running changeling or not with my usual group.

On the one hand, I have a player who's in a very bad place right now. He's been betrayed by his employers, his doctors, the department of mental health, the insurance industry, and the state government. He's in a bad place physically and mentally. I'm sure I saw him break a little the other night. I'm not sure if running Changeling will cause him more hurt, or if it will help him find some carthesis, or if it will be indifferent.

On the other hand I have a friend who has the emotional intellegence of the average sea sponge, fucker couldn't read a room if he life depended on it. I'm worried he would make things worse for my other friend. On the other hand maybe I'm selling him short and maybe he could read the room if he had a guide book. Maybe this could help.

I don't know. I think...pic is related. I kinda feel like Jerry the Immortal (Santa looking elf dude) that my own feelings of presumed maturity are getting in the way of everyone having a good time.

I thought the Wyrm wasn't conscious?

oWoD would be Mage with Matter
nWoD would be a Geist.

the darkness seems more like some kind of wicked fae thing with all those impish minions

According to Dave a mage can use Death to defend against all manner of Disciplines.

Is this overpowered? I don't see Spirit hamming werewolves so much as this.

This is where safety techniques could come handy, but wait people on these thread don't condone them so....

>I don't see Spirit hamming werewolves so much as this.
Oh but it does.

To roll to hit or the part where it hurts?

There is only one roll, to hit. You add success on your Attribute + Skill roll to the damage rating of your weapon minus the armor rating of the target.

I think most of the more mature people on this thread might admit their might be legitimate exceptions to the rule/their stances. So...stay tuned to the kick starter for the ST's section and the advice there in?

Vampiric powers are tied to death, yes? It overlaps. You can use it as much as mind for dominate. Or fate, as it's fucking with your personal threads.

I actually think the preview was posted already on the blog. I can fetch you link if you are interested?

theonyxpath.com/storytelling-changeling-the-lost/
Starts at 'Safe Hearth, Safe Table'.
Still looking forward for full manuscript on this since it seems to contain all the "Homebrewing Rules."

>the virgin mage
>the chad sorcerer

Some actual hubris and not playing god free of consequence and human decency and insisting it's a theme.

>Or fate, as it's fucking with your personal threads.

This sounds fucking retarded

In changeling, it's mentioned that you can buy mentorship of contracts at goblin markets. Can anyone explain what this means?
Is it like getting a contract at a cheaper xp cost or allowing you the opportunity to get the contract at all?

I don't think it's mentioned in the core rulebook if there are any barriers to gaining contracts apart from seasona

Might be in story justification for buying new or homebrewed Contracts.

so lilith was an awakened magee, but how did she 'awaken' caine? was caine a mage?

She awakened the disciplines within caine

Okay...hum...Xcard, and stop light probably not.

Door is always open might work...considering it's his house, and such, he could get up and say it's his medicine or something and no one would think less. That way he isn't punching out problem player 2, or we aren't having a problem, and I can wrap things up discreetly and talk to him about it. Over text or in private.

I don't get it
Caine can make up disciplines at will

How about Lines and Veils?

Redpill me on HOO
Is there any way to do coincidental magic under this system? Seems impossible

I'm gay

Doesn't really defeat what I just said

>You can use it as much as mind for dominate.

That's fucking dumb. Dominate is a mental effect. It's not death magic. Vampire Disciplines are not death magic. Many, many vampire powers have a lot more to do with beastliness and predation than death - Dominate itself and the powers in vampire fiction it's based on is a result of writers extrapolating from certain animals' ability to transfix or fascinate via eye contact.

There's nothing wrong with being a faggot.

if it's just justification though why would it be so expensive? Gaining mentorship on a contract is equivalent in value to a gutenberg bible if I'm reading the recommended values right

All Vampires can develop new disciplines, but for a matter of mentality most of them are limited by their previous knowledges.

It is often said that Elders developed some 4-5-6 ect dots versions of a discipline that varies from the "standard" ones
Caitiffs can make new disciplines from zero because they lack the usual "training" and forma mentis given by the vampiric society and their sires.

But any vampire could actually do that.

You can still use Death against Disciplines. So sayeth the great DaveB.

>my own feelings of presumed maturity are getting in the way of everyone having a good time
I didn't read that gay comic but it's 100% this

Dave should stop fucking with splats he doesn't know anything about because he feels like that.

The core of the Disciplines runs in-line with the Death Arcanum.

What they do doesn't matter. Not unless you're using another specific Arcanum, like Mind against Dominate.

Its only workable with 'reality zones' where the rules for certain magic are looser in certain places, say super tech at an engineering lab. It kinda works as a way to highlight a given paradigm if you use it right.

I don't foresee that being too much of an issue but might be something to bring up. I don't know if I'll need to use it, but might be something to consider talking with player 1 (Here on known as Big Guy) about.

The biggest concern I have is Player 2 (Here on known as Little Guy) not being sensitive to Big Guy's situation, and feelings, and trying to play off psychological trauma like it's nothing.

-slow clap- So is one in 30 men. Big deal. Why the hell should we care?

>Dave should stop fucking with splats he doesn't know anything about

The irony here is that he *does* know what he's talking about. The guy has written for every major gameline, except Hunter.

and Hunter is the best gameline
Coincidence?

Nope, not in my games. That's dumb. No amount of arbitrarily saying Disciplines run in line with the Death Arcanum (and they don't, that's a retarded statement) will make it so. Dominate has nothing to do with Death, so Death can't effect it. End of.

Dave is absolute cancer to any game not Mage at this point.

Come to Los Angeles

Dave has written extensively for every game line except Hunter, was central to the revisions for the CofD 2e setting and rules, and regularly coordinates design with Rich, Rose and the other developers. The only other OPP freelancer who's written and developed more than Dave is MattMc, and Matt's effectively gone after the rape allegations.

You might not like what Dave says, but to suggest he doesn't know what he's talking about is just plain ignorant. No other developer, many of whom post on various forums and know Dave well, have every contradicted him. It speaks for itself.

So I guess Spirit doesn't work on Gifts then? :^)

>Dominate has nothing to do with Death

Dominate is powered by a vampire's undead condition, and thus under the general purview of Death, although Mind can also Shield from Dominate's specific effect. The Arcana are very versatile.

>Vampiric powers are tied to death, yes? It overlaps. You can use it as much as mind for dominate.

That's exceptionally stupid. If a guy in my campaign tried to reason that he could create an anti-Dominate field out of Death magic, I would allow him to roll, then individually turn every die until they all come up as ones, and hit him with exactly the amount of hurt that would imply. That's how stupid this is.

>Dominate is powered by a vampire's undead condition

It's powered by the fucking blood they drink you mong. They are literally using other people's lives to power it. Death has no place here.

It's only as stupid as you seem to think it is.

Clearly you just don't like how expansive Mage is as a gameline.

Can't power that undead condition that without sweet sweet Vitae :^)

>when you thought magefaggotry couldn't get any worse

>when you thought vampfaggotry couldn't get any worse

I play Mage, and I still see it for the stupidity that it is. Dominate is a mental effect, it's not related to death. You may as well argue that light should be manipulated by Matter because objects can emit light.

You can argue with the dev, user. Though you surely know more than him, don't you? :^)

Just reposting in the new thread.
forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/of-family-friends-and-hunting-original-story-set-in-the-new-world-of-darkness.42867/

I honestly don't care what he says if it violates common sense. The devs are not infallible and Dave has shown that he has a pretty solid bias in this area.

I'm generally the ST, so shit will be as I say. You and Dave can fume impotently about it on the internet.

GEE, I wonder how Archmages can fuck with the Vampire template using Death 7, ehhh?

>it violates common sense

The irony is that it would be violating common sense by not having it work this way.

They can fuck with the vampiric condition. That's very different from erecting a defense against a mental effect. Please use your brain next time.

It makes sense that Death could fuck with disciplines, but only at really high levels, at lower levels I think theyd need various other arcana to justify

So just for clarification, you'd also say that the Spirit Arcanum can't protect against Werewolf powers?

Or is the Werewolf's spiritual basis for their powers different from the Vampire's undying curse basis?

No, sorry. They must also have Mind 7 to deal with the Dominate Discipline.

>character is assaulted with a psychic attack
>I raise an effect that counters psychic attacks, with my death magic!
>common sense

Just leave.

>While Uratha aren't quite as brainwashed, there is most certainly an information network that connects individual packs. That's half the purpose of the tribes and lodges; they're connections between packs that allow Uratha to learn, circulate lore, communicate, and approach one another on somewhat common, neutral ground outside of their packs.

I am curious by this because as packs are wary because they could steal their territories of each other unlike in Apocalypse in which pack were more or less aiming for the same role.

So why would a blood talon A teach blood talon B when B and his pack could eventually take over Blood Talon´s A territory.

>There's no overall authority but packs that sin heavily against the big rules can easily be ostracized or even attract other packs out to gain renown by punishing them.

Problem with this is that with the exception of cannibalism and the masquerade all the other oaths are open to discussion and as there is no central authority Elodoths could discuss shit until the end of times and make a divide on the whole thing.

The people do not murder the people is so open and/or useless as to not matter. In regards to the pure i have a hard time believing any forsaken pack would put their neck on the line to bring to justice a pack that killed a pure. And considering the kind of things the pure does, its a tennet that is kind of stupid.

If a pure pack kidnapps you wolfblooded son, what pack would condemn a Uratha for killing those pure.

The low honord the high, the high respects the low have a similar problem. If my pack can kick another packs ass arent they "the hight"? Regardless of rank? If my pack is the most important unit to an Uratha why should the opinion of an elder outside of the pack matter?

Respect your prey in regards to the pure has the same issue. At most they would tell them to just kill the pure or just wouldn't botter.

Vitae isn't a living fluid. So yes, Death -will- work on all manner of Disciplines.

how are vampires even actually dead when they still have souls

>So I guess Spirit doesn't work on Gifts then? :^)

Neither in my game that stupid shit would fly. Neither Fate with contracts. Fuck Dave.

Guys have I ever mentioned that I fucking hate Arcana? Because of shit like this. I would almost 100% believe they were intentionally designed for maximum vagueness.

It really depends on the power.

If the werewolf is using a Gift to make themselves stronger and hit you, no, you can't shield yourself from that with Spirit. You CAN use Spirit to fuck with their connection to their Gifts, though, or defend against an actual spiritual attack invoked through a Gift.

Also, apples to motherfucking oranges. Disciplines are not death magic. Gifts are literally spirit magic, albeit Fallen magic. Disciplines are not 'powered' by death, they're powered by other people's vital essence.

>Disciplines are not death magic
They literally are.

Vitae isn't some lifeforce.

Are you even familiar with Vampire?

It's stolen life. Reaped blood. Ignore the vampfag though. Death does work on Disciplines.

Are you even familiar with the gospel of Dave?

>Dave says Death works on Disciplines

You lost before you began

>So why would a blood talon A teach blood talon B when B and his pack could eventually take over Blood Talon´s A territory

1. Due to what they believe, many werewolves consider this their duty regardless of pragmatism. Technically it'd be pragmatic for the Forsaken in America to just fucking leave, but there are traditions older than the oldest Uratha that compel many of them to act in certain ways.

2. Have you considered that blood talon B may be thankful to blood talon A, even if they don't end up in the same pack? There's a lot to be said for having a member of another pack owe you or even look up to you as a mentor.

Who is this Dave I keep hearing about

Just cause he's a dev doesn't mean he's incapable of stupid bullshit.

Devs do stupid bullshit all the fucking time, user.

>Vampiric powers are tied to death, yes?
They're tied to the one single thing that is not dead in vampires, the blood, and is literally called vitae.