I've put myself in a bit of a pickle and I need your help. Basically...

I've put myself in a bit of a pickle and I need your help. Basically, I'm in a situation where either I bend the social mores of the setting almost beyond belief to reward a character for rolling and roleplaying well, or I punish them for doing well at something foolish. I need to know what I should do and how I should do it (and I'll happily ignore silly answers, so if you just want to shitpost knock yourself out).

Here are the details. One of the players is a charismatic lady witch with a sword, sort of a spellcasting duelist type (5th Edition DnD Bard/Warlock multiclass). While some of the other players have been doing their own thing during downtime, she's been taking advantage of the social rewards of the quests they've undertaken for the kingdom, her renown as a local heroine, and her high Charisma modifier to become a minor darling of the court. In the process, she deliberately sought out and befriended the King's only child, the crown princess. They have admittedly pretty good roleplaying chemistry as friends and since the princess has a martial bent (she uses the NPC stats for a Knight) she's been happy to have another girl to spar with. I'd planned to have the PC knighted, and potentially given a position of minor nobility, but...

Whoops, field too long, I guess this is gonna be two posts. You can kind of see where the PC wants to go with this from the OP pic anyway.

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The player has told me in confidence that her actual goal is to seduce the princess. She's made a point of rolling when convincing her to do things like sneak out of the castle and drink at a real bar, or critting a performance roll when devoting a song to her friend's valor in a melee she joined in disguise (and used the song to convince the King not to punish his daughter for that shenanigan), and has racked up several strong persuasion rolls with her, although none have explicitly been "sleep with me", and if I'd known sooner I could have just said "the princess is straight, sorry." Not only that, the PC isn't interested in a dalliance, she wants to wed and bed the princess and become a mighty Witch Queen. In fact, she informed me of this to let me know that from now on she'll actively try to seduce her friend.

The thing is, while the King nominally approves of the PC as being a useful person and a woman with backbone, he's extremely militaristic, extremely conservative, and extremely concerned with the future of his bloodline (and has encouraged the princess to become strong so that he can force a matrilineal marriage on her eventual husband). Even before the question of her being a woman comes up, and since marriages in-setting are to produce children and infertility is grounds for annulment I'm pretty sure gay marriage wouldn't exist, there's the matter of station. The PC is a commoner, and a Half-Elf at that. A commoner who is trying to seduce a royal.

What should I do? Telling her full-stop it won't work feels like railroading. Changing the whole setting to allow it seems like violating the established characters of several people and handing control over an entire kingdom to a player character. Letting it happen and then having the King arrest her and torture her seems like That DM behavior. What should I do? Is there a solution I've missed? Please help me, Veeky Forums, I'll give any details you need to prove I'm serious!

I'm just saying, this is pretty much the perfect chance to pull a Berserk.

...Ok, fine. Basically, I would put a full stop, have the princess play a naive sort, who just thinks of the Witch as a good friend. If the true intentions come forth, the princess will either be horrified/offended due to feeling used(low diplo/bad roleplay) or will be flattered but gently reject(good diplo/good roleplay)..or some manner inbetween.

If the king were to find out though? That's a number of crimes right there, have major fallouts from such a thing, especially if it's as obvious as you make it sound that this is a bad idea just by going off of the lore. You can easily drop hints, both IC and OOC, that this is a bad idea before dropping the King on them, as well. Not railroading the players is one thing, but sometimes things just can't or won't happen. Nothing wrong with being upfront.

But that's the main thing, be upfront about it.

Alternatively, the princess could go along with it but doing such a thing, and this is me inferring here based on your post, would more than likely lead to an eloping type of situation, if not full blown exile, making the idea of being a Witch Queen improbable.

Minor but important addendum. The party has another PC who does happen to be fully human, noble, male, and has a thing for the princess, but hasn't acted on it because "it would be inappropriate to interfere with her father's choice for the future of the realm, being royalty sucks that way." Which makes this situation WORSE for me because IF I was maybe thinking the princess should marry him, that's a slap in the face to the PC who's been trying to romance the princess regardless of what the king wants.

Believe me, when she told me her plan my first thought was "Griffith?"

In your opinion, should I save the king getting involved for if the princess tells her no and she persists? I never even considered the princess might be into girls until the player made it clear she wants some royal lily.

Have the princess elope with the witch? Seems pretty obvious to me. You player has clearly put in the work and it would be pretty shitty to just say "lol nope princess is off limits" but it would also be pretty rediculous is you handed over the kingdom.

Idk why this is such a big deal. PC's have made their intentions clear, they've given you time to prepare, now you just have to leave it into the story in a way that's interesting for them. Bottom line is it sounds like they've been great players, so just do something with it. Everything shouldn't work out perfectly, but don't just point blank shut them down either.

Won't this just result in the entire party having to choose between their teammate and the pursuing royal army? This is the king's only child, lose her and the realm is GONE.

It sounds like your player is proceeding with the mindset that a PCs actions overrule in-game logic. She's playing a murderhobo in disguise and expects things to happen according to her scenario without consequences. Seriously, Griffith her. Not even PCs exist within a vacuum. The world of the game should have its own life, momentum, and expectations

Do the Berserk option. Make the king find out and lose his shit. Make antagonism happen. You can depict this as tragic if you want either because it's unjust or because the hero overreached as per your preference.

Ya, kinda the choice the player made when they decided to seduce the princess. Idk why they thought the king would just hand over his daughter and (presumably) heir

this woman has not the slightest fucking idea how a feudal system works then. Beloved only princess of the realm being seduced by some bard that's up and coming, and worse, a woman? Fuck that'd ruin the reputation of the entire kingdom, and not to mention the entire court, not to mention whoever was the betrothed, would feel so cheated and most likely start a civil fucking war.

Like what, for instance?

Is this bait? How did you contrive the pc being a murderhobo from any of that? There wasn't a single mention of them killing anyone. I don't know why you would ever punish a player for trying to do something interesting that is well thought out and they give you plenty of warning about. Sure, her plan doesn't need to necessarily pan out perfectly but that doesn't mean you punish them for trying.

Build up some sort of climatic event where the witch is able to express her "feelings" for the princess in some sort of dramatic way. Maybe a royal ball or something like that? Or maybe they have some cool adventure just the two of them and it ends with them in some sort of romantic situation? The witch will take the opportunity to express her love and have a few options. You can either have the witch roll persuasion or charm or something, or you can just randomize the princesses reaction. Maybe she point blank turns the witch down, perhaps even getting offended at the idea. Perhaps she admits her love for the witch and they elope. In my opinion, the most interesting and least damaging option would be if the princess turns the witch down, citing her loyalty to the realm. But deep down she's beginning to come to terms with her feelings for the witch, which are foreign to her since she's never been in love with a woman before. You can then continue on the relationship from there, with the princess slowly coming more and more to terms with her affection.

The King seems like he would not, could not support such a union.
If his royal line doesn't continue, then he's going to get fucked by the warring dukes and barons who think they're going to get the throne instead.
Not having a suitable heir can easily cause a civil war in those times.

I would recommend the King secretly blackbag her and exile her to another continent, making it clear that she is never to be seen in his lands again.

So in my opinion, make the king find a suitor for his daughter. Have be of a kingdom they are at odds with, so this is a marriage to promote peace. If the PC wants to eliminate completion let that be a thing. BUT, when this is done the repercussion should be the death of the princess as retaliation for the death of the prince, unless she is vital to your story. This will move the plot to a conflict scenario that the player COULD have avoided but was power hunger and got into a mess because of said hunger. If the player does nothing then peace between two factions blossom and you no longer have a problem.

You could always say that the Princess is straight and not attracted to women at all.

Yes. STRAIGHT. Like the vast majority of people are in reality.

That would avoid the messy business where the King would need to "remove" this predatory bard somehow.

But then the witch is dragging the party along with her decision because she needed to munch some carpet, thus ruining all the good will they built with the king.
It sounds pretty selfish on part of that player.

Hrm. Aside from the king and I guess many nobles, how does society regard homosexuality?

Anyway considering this king seems a pretty practical guy I don't think a Griffith would be the logical course of action, unless he takes it personal. I mean, there was no loss of virginity and possible impregnation, the bard in this was less bad than a man.
I guess at most he would only kill her.

How do the other players view the situation? Call me a leftist commie but this would intrigue me, at least if wannabe witchqueen really loves her.

I'd think honestly that wouldn't be the issue. Story first, honestly this sounds too interesting anyway to go "sorry I'm not gay" on the princess part.

But that's boring as fuck my man. Who wants to play a game that's boring

That it's 2017, no joke, and the views of real-life bigots should have no ACTUAL impact on fantasy kingdoms where the propensity of creative, likable, intelligent, wise people having the power to do magic would establish progressivism as a universal social good in any realistic setting?

Maybe love matters more than some imaginary bloodline that's been diluted more with every generation anyway?

You see that just feels lazy.

Dragging along or setting up a fun side adventure. That's up to the GM to decide.

The witch, by attempting to seduce the princess, is going to drag the rest of the party along with her decision because if she's the King's only daughter, he can't afford her to not continue the royal line.
I think one player making such a big decision for the whole group without their consent is pretty stupid.

How was this not the first thing mentioned? It's almost like in real life where you like someone but they turn out to like the gender opposite of yours. Does it suck to have happen? Yeah but with the way you've set the setting it would cause disaster or leave large glaring holes as you bent the entire thing just to make this work because a PC rolled well. Princess has been raised in a conservative royal court, did you honestly not think how this might mean the Princess is straight and just misjudged your PCs advances as a close friendship?

I agree if it is selfish, if she takes a large portion of the spot light doing this. However, bard is a bard so they are gonna seduce, and a witch, not a wizard, WITCH is power hungry af so the RP isn't a problem to me as far as I can tell.

See

She's not a bard, she's a witch.

>Uses the current year argument
>Completely ignores where the GM detailed how the king is the exact opposite
2/10 got me to reply

If the rest of the party spent so much time and energy getting on the King's good graces, why would they want it all to be thrown away by the whimsey of one player?

She is more active in the court than their actual noble, she doesn't have bard spells, but she is more a bard than he is a noble.

Just have him get a suitor for his daughter and progress from there until you believe you know how to handle the situation.

homosexuality and sexual deviancy is often the sign of abusive past.

Have the princess come up with the idea to fake her own death and elope with the witch. Year later, she can return with a bid for the throne and a civil war for added drama. You can have her take action without telling the party beforehand if you really want to put them in a bind.

Years*

Like and have said, don't shut down your player's designs over this, but also don't just hand over the keys to the kingdom. I think she deserves some rewards for her efforts.

How established is the anti-gay thing? Are the mores mostly established in your head or have they been concretely observed by your players in the setting?

Also, there's always magic, especially if the player's a witch. Sex-change, real or illusory, permanent or temporary, witch or princess, might be an option. Or just skip that and have a magic conception between lesbians.

For the station thing, you could have a noble or royal lineage hidden somewhere in the witch's bloodline. Happens all the time in fiction. Maybe she's the grand daughter of some elf lord or something. Or just fake it.

I believe I would have had no problem with this, if it was just get the girl(princess) and run off never to be seen from again, not I wanna be the new divine ruler of this kingdom, so I'm gonna marry me a princess.

Longshot here, but if the group like the idea (you probably need to speak with them out of the fiction at this point) what about a mcguffin/secret spell that can make two women carry a baby?

That's exactly the contrary. The decisions of the players are paramount. One decides "fuck them all"? That's a great story, honestly - will the group decide to stand with her? Great drama.

As I said tough the fact that the players (not the PCs) don't know shit, possibly, is a complication that should be addressed as soon as possible. THEN they will make their choice if shit hits the fan.

>this can't but give me strenght in thinking that there shouldn't be "secret" fiction. Everything clear to see for any player.

Only if it could create drama and decisions by the player(s), certainly not if used to railroad.

Now there is some plot points that could be explored from that.

This shit right here. Depending on how good her rolls are leading up to it either make the princess mad or just kind of flattered but a hard no. If it goes against the setting, goes against what the princess and the king in question would in all likelihood do, and would have severe repercussions for the PC and likely the party as a result then there is really no reason to let it fly. I personally wouldn't bend the setting to allow something like that.

>love
>want's to become a with queen by seducing her
Did you not read OP? she'd tear apart a country for some fruitless power fantasy like all women do

Since she's a Witch, what do you think the king's FIRST thought is going to be, even if his daughter is somehow in love with her?
That the witch cast a spell on his daughter, of course.

Make people treat her like a fucking witch. There's a reason a stigma exists against them.

Thats not a bad idea, but I feel like that puts one PC center stage, as compared to the rest of the PCs.

If her motive is to rule the kingdom by seducing the princess, that there is absolutely treasonous unless she has the king's blessing.

And I don't see that happening, given there will be no heir from such a union.

There's no "anti-gay thing" here, it's about continuing the lineage of the royal family, and the princess is the only daughter.

It's a given that the king needs his daughter to pop out a crown prince/ss before the nobles get uppity.

This, now watch everybody insist she be a lesbian so they can jerk their little peckers over it.

She hasn't done it yet, though, which is commendable, there's time to abort this doomed mission.

Depending on how the power level for PCs is supposed to work out, it might be an idea to just...make no one able to stop them. In my setting at least heroes typically can do what they like in this regard because there simply isn't anyone who can tell them no and enforce it. If it's the end goal of the game, it might be a viable answer.

Is it possible to divert her with another female for this very purpose? A lady in waiting that looks and acts very similar to the princess? If the player goes for it, we know it's just ERP; but if the player turns down the lady in waiting and continues to pursue the princess, then we know it's That Girl looking to jack everything.

Not everyone gives out levels and magic items like candy.

Really? Nobody's going to bring up the Fate/Stay approach?
King is unhappy about it at first, you can even make him furious if you want, but lover conquers all blah blah blah whatever. After that's all said and done he gets all his best magicians to start researching futa magic.

You could make a really interesting story using this! The princess genuinely loves the witch but everyone assumes it's witchcraft

That's boring.

I don't see any reason whatsoever why if dad is (politically, apparently, not ethically, even) against gays she shouldn't be gay/bi/curios/witchsexual/whatever. Hell, if anything, if she's a repressed lesbian she wouldn't at all be "just mad". She would call the fucking spanish inquistion herself and enjoy the torture, yes, in THAT way even, why the fuck not.

Which would be a pretty decent plothook, tough not as great as the most important tool for any GM, say "yes, and..." to player's actions. Witch didn't give a fuck about consequences? That's FANTASTIC. Shit can go full civil war and you guys are there "lolno", forchrissake. Witchplayer is introducing high drama and action, what could be any better? Reward him/her with a story! If the kingdom is gonna fall, who gives a fuck. Settings are just tools for the group and the campaign, burn them like matches.

>even if we imply in the setting being homo is an actual orientation and not something more situational like in other cultures, and lesbianism being for all western history mostly "eh, it doesn't really exist", etc.

Or maybe she loves the princess. Shocking, I know.

That is true, if they are well established heroes, then who could stop them from doing what they want and this could be an end game. If they are strong enough to defeat dragons, and out wit master tacticians on the field of battle, this is a campaign reward.

Huh, it is almost like they are playing a fantasy game where they can do shit like that. Let them have their fun, thats the entire point of the game.

A game where everyone has fun and stories can be made, that is why people want to play. Some of the best stories are not the time they jumped off a 60ft building onto a dragon and rode it into the sky, it when they get it into the sky and realize they have no idea how to fly a dragon and crash it into the ground.

Probably because no one cared enough to watch/read it.

>not wanting the princess to get impregnated by futa
You're boring you prude.

>Not only that, the PC isn't interested in a dalliance, she wants to wed and bed the princess and become a mighty Witch Queen. In fact, she informed me of this to let me know that from now on she'll actively try to seduce her friend.

This is getting into twisted manipulation territory.

To all the people in this thread saying "muh luv conquers all" I want you to actually read what OP wrote.

OP here, and since this is an actual question directed at me I can answer it without infecting the thread with my own biases. The other players outright don't know, some might suspect something's up, but keep in mind I just found out and the witch hasn't made a move on the princess yet.

In this situation, first I'll give a chat to the player. I'll explain that his character know that homosexuality isn't considered very well in this setting, especially for noble who must produce heirs. But he's free to give it a shot, knowing that it might have bad consequences.

Second, the princess will likely be extremly surprised and reject her, run away without saying a word, ask why, or something like that at first. It's not normal, it's not what she's used to, and she's not prepared for it (it does depends on how you imagined the princess)
If the player keep going and roll well, and play his cards right, he might charm her. If he fails she will shut down and feel betrayed because she wanted a good friend and this friend only wanted to seduce her, what a harlot!

If the king learns it, he will stop this at once by forbidding the player to interact with the princess. If the player was still in good terms with the princess, it might be beneficial in his tentative to charm the princess (he become a very real forbidden fruit, and she may feel empathy for him)

And lastly, if the player do charm the princess, then the only option is to run away or do it all in secret. If the king learns about it, the player is gonna die hard and fast, in a very discrete manner (nobody wants to make too much noise about it)

Of course, if the player run away with the princess, he will experience the full military might of a kingdom after his sorry ass.

>Letting it happen and then having the King arrest her and torture her seems like That DM behavior.

just give the player some ample warnings and hints that the king isn't going to let it slide so easily, that way she has a chance to modify her plans to deal with the extra obstacle. obviously there should still be a chance for her to get arrested and executed for trying this shit, but you don't have to ambush her with it.

hell, if she pops the idea to the princess, the princess herself can list all these objections, she'd obviously know about them.

and if you do a magic conception thing, you have to make the players figure that out. maybe leave in a way for them to do it...could be an interesting quest hook, looking around the world for a magic dick-grow potion or whatever. or some kind of lesbian wonder-device. or maybe she just tries to kidnap her and get some kind of unbreakable marriage done so that it doesn't matter whether they conceive or not, even if the king really cares.

i guess basically, only let the player proceed if she hops the hurdles your setting has placed in front of her. you don't need to roll over, you just don't want to make her roll over either.

so what? difficult and high-consequence choices are exciting!

But user, that's inconvenient and doesn't let them preach about anyone not 100% supporting this endeavor is a bigot and a horrible person.

This god damned falseflagging gets worse every week.

You prude, it's the princess who becomes a princess (futa).

I think you should inform the players. You and the witch player.

Maybe something like playing the new scene and telling the players what already happened? The PCs will not necessarily know it, but... Then they might get suspicious in fiction.

>Second, the princess will likely be extremly surprised and reject her, run away without saying a word, ask why, or something like that at first. It's not normal, it's not what she's used to, and she's not prepared for it (it does depends on how you imagined the princess)

She already is beyong "normal". I'm pretty sure for a princess go into shady taverns isn't normal at fucking all, and she enjoyed it.
Hell, if that was an AW the consequences for a failed seduction for me would've been clear, the princess IS in love with the witch, but it's found out.

So answer us this DM, did you ever stop to think how the princess might be straight? Also that just because someone is really persuasive, plays their cards right and tries to plan for setbacks still doesn't guarantee success?

I forgot that the PC is a witch.

In this case, all of the above is still good, but the king will obviously think she's casting a spell on the princess. And the assassins will come much MUCH faster.

She may stumble upon a spell that allow someone to change sex, or to change her apperance.
If I was a PC, I would definitely try some illusion shenanigans, acquire a title of nobility from a distant land, and enter the court.

Instead of sitting here bickering over who is or isn't a prude, I propose a compromise.
They both futa impregnate each other. At the same time.

It's perfectly normal for commoners.
Eating pussy, way less.

That really seems less exciting than taking the opportunity to explore this avenue. I agree with OP's basic instinct to not squelch such an active and engaged player with a simple "no."

Having the princess be interested is fine, even interested in a reluctant way, so long as the king and his kingdom stay firmly opposed. That creates an interesting tension that the players have to deal with in some way. If the princess isn't interested at all this whole thing becomes a waste of time, including retroactively all the stuff the player has done so far.

I'm not even saying they need to be married at the end of it; I'd actually wager they won't. If the witch tries this and fails to outmaneuver the king, or gets stopped for some other reason, that'll still be way more interesting.

OP here, she never showed romantic interest in anyone previously, I honestly assumed the witch was straight too.

I'd veto this immediately.

I'd say she should be able to seduce the princess. Seems like she's put in solid work for that.


But the King's never going to allow his only daughter that he's been grooming to rule his kingdom become the concubine of some commoner half breed witch. Overcoming that can lead to a number of quests.

Convincing him she's worthy of his daughter's hand. (Impossible quests, unquestionably saving the realm, etc.)
Establishing nobility. Make the players clear out an abandoned duchy on the dangerous border lands. Now the PC can get a title, this means they won't be a commoner anymore.
Convincing the rest of the realm that this wouldn't be a bad idea. The King *could* hand his daughter over once the other two provisions are met, but would it be a good idea? Would the commoners rebel? Would the other nobility? This is more 'proving worthyness'. Perhaps hobnobbing in court, establishing friends in the upper echelons or focusing on spreading a folk hero story.
Lastly, there's the whole fertility issue. Which, if there isn't an existing spell, you can make into a quest for a custom ritual to allow your lesbian pregnancy of choice.


If she doesn't want to do all this but she still wants to love the princess, there's always running away and living in exile.

They're not exciting when FORCED on the party. I'd turn her over to the guards and let the c/u/cks cry about not getting to act out their fetish of turning a straight girl.

>Twisted manipulation
It's a PC plan. NPC's can never really consent anyway.

With every people saying that the princess could be straight, that could be a good way to introduce the illusion shenanigans.

The princess reject the witch at first, the witch is exiled by the king, but she doesn't give up, she find an old illusion spell and succed at creating a false nobilty title from a far away land, and she come to the court.
She then seduce the princess and reveal her identity after the first kiss and "I love you"

You'll have to guide the PC a bit, give him some foreshadowing and advice from weird old dude in a shady tavern or some shit, but that could be very fun.

>If she doesn't want to do all this but she still wants to love the princess, there's always running away and living in exile.
Read what the OP wrote.

>"Not only that, the PC isn't interested in a dalliance, she wants to wed and bed the princess and become a mighty Witch Queen. In fact, she informed me of this to let me know that from now on she'll actively try to seduce her friend."

Well, if that's not a consideration then magically conceiving lesbians would not seem to represent a problem. You could go with magic on that front. Or you could do things in a more mundane fashion and hatch a plot to get the princess pregnant with someone else's kid.

Also the reservations/objections of both the princess and the king would be good obstacles for your player, and represent ways to tie in plot hooks.

The princess may have always thought of herself as straight, but may be forced to reconsider after the witch reveals her romantic intentions. Anecdotally, gay people often seem to discover their orientation only once confronted with it directly, sort of like this. Even as the princess tries to sort out exactly what the witch is to her, you could introduce a romantic rival that the PC has to overcome or outmaneuver.

The king should also represent an obstacle that may range anywhere on a continuum from objecting to marriage because of the obvious reasons listed above, to forbidding further contact between the witch and the princess, to outright hostility by either declaring the PC persona non grata or actively seeking her death. Maybe she won't want to tell the king at all, and go behind his back. Maybe she will need to lay his fears to rest in order to earn his approval. Maybe she will need to save the kingdom to earn his undying gratitude.

The PC is not interested in love. She's interested in ruling the kingdom.

Yeah but is she willing to do all the work outlined above to get that Witch Queen status? Like, she may have just thought she had to romance someone.

Well burning down a kingdom is all well and good, if its all for the desires of one PC at the possible expense of the party as a whole that doesnt really give the Witch PC any points for why the story should go down this path. Cause really when you get down to it its not a question of why shouldnt the princess be gay/bi/whatever, its a question of why should she be gay/bi/somegaybullshit. And if the only reason for it is so Witch can get some royal puss then that just really strikes me as letting the player lead the DM around by the nose. The Witch PC has a hair brained scheme of seducing the princess with from what we know zero knowledge of if she would even return those feelings. So if the DM says ya it turns out this royal princess is actually gay after the Witch tries something more serious hes just caving to some long shot scheme by the PC.

How about the setting has some grounding and such a crazy plan actually wouldnt have a very good chance of ever working? The fact that hes even asking about this problem leads me to believe OP wants to create a more solid world for his players.

Are you sure she isn't, y'know, both? Like, the player decided they want to rule the kingdom, and they like this idea of a love story they built?

Like, if a demon said 'hey, kill your bestie, I'll make you the Witch Queen', what do you think her answer would be?

>They're not exciting when FORCED on the party.

that's exactly when it's exciting, when choice is thrust upon you rather than at your leisure. your friend did something dumb and now it's up to you, bail or stick it out? clearly you'd choose bail, that's a fine choice and no one's even suggested that the other players can't make that choice.

it's ironic that you'd complain about people who want everything to go their own way, while also complaining about other people's actions forcing choices you don't like on you. if you don't like that, play solo, i've never played a campaign of anything where someone didn't do something i disagreed with that had big immediate consequences and forced a hard choice on me, even if it was just rushing into battle with something we clearly can't kill.

The princess is in love with person x. The player help her find confidence to confess.

But the description the DM's given of this plan doesn't seem so harebrained. It seems like it's been a pretty thorough and deliberate attempt to build a romantic relationship. Now, that doesn't mean someone has to be gay, but, why not reward a player for getting that invested?

>the PC isn't interested in a dalliance, she wants to wed and bed the princess and become a mighty Witch Queen.

>isn't interested in a dalliance

durr

Dalliance is a fling, not deep love. Are you fucking retarded?

OP here. Yes, actually. I had zero plans for the princess to be anything but straight until this happened and I'm not really sure whether or not I should change that.

You don't really need to change anything. Firstly, the King and Church will be none too happy that a witch is seducing the princess, but in the event that smoothes over she can certainly be a consort to the princess, but if the princess is the only living child of the king, she will need to produce heirs, and that means marrying a prince and making him a king. It's more about duty than love, the princess can love the witch and the witch can even be friends with the prince husband. It would basically be an open secret that the princess/now queen, is fucking the witch.

OP... Noble daughters with martial experience do whatever the fuck they want.

Julie D'Aubigny: badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?id=672138630154

There are a lot of homophobic guys that game (Sounds like a lot are here too). Being a lesbian gamer I watched the guys in my group bed countless women in the games over the years. I had wanted to add the same adult play to my characters but my brother (who was usually the GM) advised me otherwise. Truth be told I understood...though it did hurt. I eventually got out of gaming with my brothers group. I found it a lot better with some friends from college...and YES there was an interesting story of my character becoming a futa to give her girlfriend a child ;)

Frankly, most girls I knew were totally okay with a lesbain relationship. And the great majority tried it in highscool or college. It may be a product of the time, or anecdotal experience or anything you want, but I don't think it's too far fetched to have a young and very protected girl trying something with another girl.

They may break up after, she may think it's not really what she wants, that she miss something or anything. But even in a realistic campaign, it wouldn't bug me if she tried it.

So instead of the PC having to get even more creative and instead create a more long term plan that might end in her controlling everything behind the scenes because the Queen and her are long time friends the only best avenue is to have this love interest develop and potentially lead to the PC becoming frustrated because they might feel you led them along to pull the rug out from under them in the end? Is your thought process so one dimensional that when you're told no you want to give up and shut down? None of the work goes to waste if you bother stopping and think for five seconds about how a simple rejection isn't the undoing of a friendship that places the witch into a position of power. You want tension there's some fucking tension manipulating someone in power without someone able to send an army after you finding out with the longer term goal of ruling in all but name.

weak bait

That's boring tough.

But the fact that a princess isn't "normal" kinda begs the question, how is her sexuality of all things to adhere to normalcy? Hell, her marriage is more akin to a formal treaty between nations, most probably. Why should we expect her (and anyway all the higher nobles, at least) to consider the qualms of the folk important? I'd be pretty sure if the princess was a prince he would be rightfully expected to marry whoever daddy decides, do his duty and then who the fuck cares, just don't blow half a duchy's money on whores and be discreet. That when his subjects might as well be supposed to be churchgoing prudes and probably are.

The witch probably is the fucking first person that has treated her like a human being, not a tool to gain prestige (well, by her POV, which is even more interesting). Oh, I don't think she didn't have nice handmaidens, quite the contrary, but the witch treated her like a FRIEND. Took her out, risked to let her have fun.Just think about what that means for her, being supposed to stand her and shits babies for her lineage. She put her out of her gilded cage - gilded, but still a cage.

She'd probably do anything for the witch. Hell, you know what? I'd fucking make her straight AND tell the witch "if it's you it's ok". Witch player would go mad with this sense of power, so that all this could even be crazier. Or maybe she would stop and listen to her conscience.

But OP clearly lets this happen. It's too late to retcon and say "oh, but the players should know in advance!". If the campaign has pcs doing their shit in secret, so be it.

Let the witch handle this shit. It would be even more fun to see her try to win the other PCs and not side with the king.

It's an NPC. Do whatever is more interesting, user. Seriously.

I agree that the Witch has done a lot more then
>I roll to seduce the Princess
but that doesn't mean every plan has to succeed. What if the princess rejection creates friction for the party in the court? What if she bans the Witch from the castle and that creates a problem for the party later on? Theres plenty that could happen to effect the story that wouldnt involve the DM changing the princess to be part of a specific minority group to fit a PC's long shot idea of romance.

>being a tomboy automatically makes you a dyke
>no degree of failure should stop some guy playing a dyke from getting to mandate the princess is a lesbian

Get your hand out of your pants.

Royalty having consorts is nothing new, neither is a consort being a power behind the throne.

Now for her to be a Witch Queen, that requires a major shakeup and courtly finagling.

I don't think I said anything about the PC being in love. Whether she is or isn't, she's obviously motivated towards the ends of marrying the princess.

Now it may be that the princess has no agency in matters of marriage, so romance is superfluous, and the only people's opinions that are relevant are the king's, and any noble or foreign power who sees this arrangement as exploitable.

Because it's a good way to reward player investment? The opposite seems like just creating friction because of stubbornness.

So why not stick with that and see how creative your PC gets? Hasn't stopped any of mine, hell one became the BBEG because he ruled in all but name due to a failed courtship but staying on good terms and manipulating everything from behind the scenes. Sometimes PCs hatch plans, the setting doesn't always have to change just because of them and it can lead to even more interesting plans to get to the same goal.

If you want to not shut down your players work still reward them with the princess being flattered and wanting to stay close friends and have the PC give her advice on important matters. See where this is going? What person only after power wouldn't jump at the chance to be the advisor that rules from the shadows? Give your PC hints that if they maneuver right they can still get what they wanted just not exactly as they planned.

Sounds like a good time to change their hubs to me. If you can pull it off in such a way that their eloping climax syncs with, I don't know, chasing the dragon necromancer to the other side of the world, kudos to you.

The party would have to assume new identities so they won't be spied, as for scrying maybe the court mage is sympathetic to their cause, or maybe the princess has a small fortune of artefacts in her possesion, one of which blocks scrying as an anti-spy thing.