What system do I use to run a WW2 game that isn't as number crunchy as GURPS...

try ACHTUNG CTHULHU
it's relatively simple (1d100 rolls) and also has rules for mass combat

This. Off the top of my head, you have plenty to work with in the core rulebook and there are two settings i know of, Weird War 2 and Achtung! Cthulhu, both of which have plenty of material to work with, and you can easily strip out the occult material as needed

Old but serviceable. Just use the core rulebook damage for weapons. You _need_ both Weird War II and Achtung Cthulhu for the full experience, at least if your players want to go full stereotype with the National Identity edge.

Literally any generic system and many specialist ones should be OK. The exact one best suited depends on your group (especially what they are familiar with) and the campaign in question (is it dark, gritty, light-hearted, action-focused, character-driven, what have you).

I'm currently running a slightly comedic upbeat WW2 espionage game in oWoD because that's the system my players are most comfortable with.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I think for now I'm going to muddle my way into GURPS and see if I can put something together. If not I'll try and jigger the Savage Worlds approach. It's all a bit out of my comfort zone so I'll probably have to go light with it since I've also got to teach a few players how to do it, but I'll see what I can do.

If you need to go light then you should just do Savage Worlds. It's one of the most idiot-proof systems out there.

Have you seen the scant generals we get for it around here? I agree with you in spirit, but that's not true.

I'm tempted since Weird War seems like it might work with a little fudging but like said, I'm just not sure on it. Also there is a GURPS general with a steady population for Q&A, which is a good advantage.

And besides it's not that my players are stupid, it's just going to be some rust removal and short teaching. They're fairly quick studies.

That's because one guy gets triggered every time the system is mentioned and spergs it up with retardation about muh bennies, muh broken shotguns.

I'm not saying your players are stupid, just that SW is very simple and easy to learn. If they're quick learners like you say then it's probably the most low-effort system for you.

Granted I can see the appeal for choosing a system with an active general.

The easiest way to WWII with GURPS is to use the WWII line of books and nothing else. WWII core has 3e Lite in the back of it, so you technically don't need the Basic Set.

Only real issue might be that it's 3e.

Savage worlds is crap. Shotguns are basically broken in close quarters which is not realistic even by pulp standards, three round burst is even more broken (won't come up in a ww2 game though), most of the edges are trap options, most of the drawbacks are roleplay only bullcrap meant for menacing to "encourage" role-playing. The combat system is decent for fighting hordes of soldiers but the vehicle combat is crap (lolling at a tank taking a "wound" from a tank shell and skidding 1d6 inches (2 yard increments) TOWARD the direction the shell came from), and similar dumbassery.

GURPS is a much better choice.

Nah he's just the disruptive sperg. I'm talking about common threads that go years back. Keep an eye out for it if we ever get clean generals again, but people make a lot of really unnecessary and broken house rules based entirely on not understanding a base mechanic.

I can still remember it now, half a decade ago sitting in my dorm room, and watching someone sperg out about multiactions on a train.

See? Triggered sperg.
>bullcrap
Linkara is that you?

That's because multiactions are retarded and a badly written rule.
>lmao I make 32 attacks at a - 64 penalty each
Never found where it said you couldn't do that. Literally swing a sword faster than a hummingbird beats it's fucking wings. For real? And the autofire rules were retarded too. What autofire rifle takes 6 seconds to shoot 9 bullets? At least GURPS does it realistically.

Hey here's my example coming to life. A guy who has clearly not read the book, and angrily projects his opinions on the nature of actions within a combat turn as if they were a universal truth.

Read literally the large bullet point in the section where multiactions are introduced
and
You're not holding the trigger down the entire round, that would be more akin to suppressing fire, which hey, uses more bullets, look at that.

Operation Whitebox. It’s Swords and Wizardry adapted to WW2

WWII: Operation WhiteBox is a standalone game that uses the Swords & Wizardry WhiteBox rules as its base. In addition to standard gameplay rules, the game contains the following:

CHARGEN: This includes Attributes, Nationality, Rank, Profession, etc.
NEW CLASSES: Eight new classes including the Charmer, Combat Engineer, Grunt, Maquis, Sniper, Tactician, Wheelman, Uberlaufer, each with their own unique abilities.
GEAR AND WEAPONS: A list of typical WWII weapons and gear. Weapons are statistically grouped by function (Large Rifle, Small Handgun, Submachinegun, etc.) with some named examples to add flavor (M1 Garand, Derringer, MP40, etc.).
PLAYING THE GAME: Rules for Saving Throws, Surprise, Reaction Rolls, Movement, etc.
PERSONAL COMBAT: Rules for "theater of the mind" combat including new rules for automatic weapons, using cover and concealment, and explosives.
VEHICLE COMBAT: Rules for "theater of the mind" vehicle combat (basically the same as personal combat) and vehicles grouped and statted out (Small Truck, Medium Tank, Small Aircraft, etc.) with named examples to add flavor (Kubelwagen, M4 Sherman, Brirish Spitfire, etc
COVERT SPECIAL FORCES EQUIPMENT: Descriptions of some real world equipment designed and/or used by special forces during WWII.
THE WWII CAMPAIGN: This chapter gives an overview of the different theaters, major events of the different time periods, and lots and lots of tips for running a WWII campaign.
SPECIAL FORCES IN THE EUROPEAN THEATER: An overview of various Allied special forces units such as the SAS, LRDG, OSS, etc., resistance organizations such as the French Maquis and the Norwegian Milorg, an German special forces units such as the Brandenburgers. This chapter also runs down how to design a special forces mission as well as the different types of missions commonly undertaken.
WWII TIMELINE: A chronological timeline of major WWII dates and events

>using d20 class-based rules for a modern setting game where characters are expected to be competent in at least the basics of life as a soldier, let alone the badass commando levels of competence most PCS inevitably reach
No. Just no.

It’s capped at 5th level and it’s kinda reworded a lot of hp and dmg. For example it’s only 1d6 hp and most weapons deal flat dog within 1d6 range. Don’t knock it till you try! :)

*reworked

Pundit has a decent review on rpgsite too.

>uses more bullets,
Yeah fifteen. An ak47 fires that in a second and a half. I've read the book, faggot, I know how the game works.
GURPS does 1 second rounds and let's you decide how many bullets you fire. It also only makes you roll once, which is nice when you don't want to spend 5 hours in combat. But then again savage worlds uses literal playing cards for initiative with no player skill involved, so I assume being taken seriously wasn't in their design goals.

>I've read the book, faggot, I know how the game works.
Really because that multiaction bit of yours is hard wrong.
>GURPS does 1 second rounds
I'm aware. But did you know it's literally the only system that gets that granular with its time management? Really makes you think.

>Really because that multiaction bit of yours is hard wrong.
What pages for it say that?
>really make you think
Yeah makes me think it's the kind of realistic game suited to OPs campaign rather than some hamfosted gamist piece of shit.

>But did you know it's literally the only system that gets that granular with its time management?
Outright false. I know of at least one game that is even more granular, but I can't right know remember the name. Not to mention that's the shittiest attempt at an appeal to (im)popularity.

Well it really depends what you actually want to do in the game
Titles that are heavy on the action tend to spend less focus on the RPing and vice versa
For example if you wanted to do a Band of Brothers game you wouldn't want to spend all your time handling combat when the focus is really on the characters and their interactions
But if you just want to run a murderhobo campaign in WW2 clothes then something like GURPS or SW or whatever would probably be best
I always recommend PDF related when people ask for a military-themed RPG, it's all you could need in such a game

I'm not leaning particularly murderhobo, but I do certainly want a sense of adventure in it.

Think Kelley's Heroes.

>What pages for it say that?
Already told you mate, literally the same page multiple actions are introduced. You seriously expect me to think you've read the book, yet you can't even figure that out. It's in the index if you need a hint.
>Yeah makes me think it's the kind of realistic game suited to OPs campaign rather than some hamfosted gamist piece of shit.
Really, you think the game that the op literally opens with as an example of what he isn't looking for is what he's looking for the exact reason he wasn't looking for it.
Great idea.

Well normally I would suggest GURPS, but since you aren't interested in that perhaps Savage Worlds or Ops and Tactics (a D20 homebrew from a /k/ guy here on Veeky Forums)?

I personally really dislike Ops and Tactics but it seems to do what it sets out to do fairly well. Savage Worlds is just not to my tastes but it has a good deal of popularity and material, and it's really simple to play.

if you want to do alt history WW2 I'd recommend Weird war 2 for savage worlds. pic related should give you an idea of the flavor for the setting.

For added fun, anybody in the ~40-year-old captain bracket is probably a Weird War I veteran and can complain about how the monstrosities these days are nowhere near as bad as the ones they had back in the Somme.

The PEG shills are out in full force today.

Last guy you quoted here. I am the furthest thing from a shill possible with regards to SW, I'm just also not willing to trash it as a system simply because I don't enjoy playing it. Many others have tons of fun with it, and it's a very popular system.

Doesn't make me like it any better, but OP may well sure enjoy it. And he should be allowed to play or like whatever he wants, in the end. As should we all.

tl;dr fuck off

lol I never thought of that. "back in my day we had to deal with gas fiends those little bastards would would shamble out of the morning fog belching fosgene gas and we'd have to suck it up shoot the bastards first because by the time you got your mask on they'd be on you trying to strangle you."
>unironically enjoying things is shilling in the current year.

Check out "patrol. Vietnam roleplaying game" you can easily convert it to ww2, it even has a ww1 supplement. It really focuses on the psychology of the soldiers/players and on the stuff soldiers do everyday vs the stuff hollywood shows

Third one has the only sane advice after le epic GURPS meme

Anyone got a pdf of this? I'd love to read it if only out of curiosity.

Vola /r/er4a0n0c

Anyone have Godlike by any chance?

I'd grab some of the WW2 Cthulhu games and just strip all the mythos stuff out.

The characters will be competent people, yet the game will be deadly and getting shot will hurt.
The crunch is usually fairly simple and fast, maybe grab some of the combat stuff from the new Delta Green..

>Linkara is that you?
I don't see any dickgirls, so it must be someone else.

>it's a very popular system
AHAHAHAHAHAA
No.

For everyone else's reference, here's the quote.

>Characters may perform multiple actions such as Intimidating someone while blasting away with a shotgun, running and Fighting, attacking with a weapon in each hand, and so on. Two important rules apply:
>* A character can't fire more than his weapon's Rate of Fire in one round
* A character may not make more than one Fighting attack with the same weapon in one round

>A character may not make more than one Fighting attack with the same weapon in one round
So? Just use a new weapon for each attack.

Aching Cthulhu, Savage Worlds edition.

Rolemaster or Torg

I'm looking through the rules and I don't see anything explicitly against it, though any GM that allowed that bullshit would be a terrible one. You can only hold so many things before you run out of hands and the ability to actually use any of them.

Closest it comes to any ruling on the matter is saying that drawing two weapons at once, or a weapon from a difficult location/unwieldy weapon, would require an Agility roll to do so.

What I'm gathering from this is that you can exploit the loophole if you want, but your GM would be an idiot to allow it. GM has the final say, after all.

Regardless of system, what are some good plots you can use for a World War 2 game? Which theaters and operations would be the most fun to get some PCs involved in?

>muh broken shotguns.

Reminds me of the 'ol days when shotguns were totally broken in Shadowrun.

Depends on if you want sci fi/occult or mundane.

Mundane can still be a lot of fun. The assassination of Reinhard Heydrich played out like a tabletop session.

Italian frogmen trolling the British by sinking shit right in their harbours could be fun.

British scout mission/commando raids in the desert should be interesting.

If you wanna go investigative, you can try german MPs fighting partizans. Also means that your PCs can pick freely from any firearm produced within german occupied nations and they might even get some early war non-german tank to roll around in.

The norwegian sabotage of continental heavy water production was a thing too.

The US op aimed at recovering and securing nazi looted european art is another thing you could run.

Really, basically anything that keeps them away from major military operations should be fine.

Great that -64 is now a -128 with 32 agility rolls. Just for reference someone with an above average fighting. A d8. Is hitting an average opponent (parry 5), at a net TN of 69 (teehee) is a 1 in 44.7 million chance. At least for npcs, technically a pc would probably bring that down to 1 in 20 million something, but the I don't care to do wildcard math on it.

So functionally an impossible task. The character would more or less just be flapping the blade in front of them like a crazy person if it was possible.
Read up on some of the wackier characters of the war.
You can kind of have major operations show up, but the pcs should play a pivotal but historically forgotten roll on the sides. Like you've got this major offencive and there just happens to be a bridge somewhere that needs taking. Command thinks it is either too important or not important enough so it's up to the pcs. It might not win the fight, but it's a nice contained thing that can make an impact. Plenty of ways to spice up objectives like that if you add supernatural elements.
Though you absolutely want the pcs in a more mobile unit that way. Juggle them around different theaters between generals, to allow for some side plots to break up combat missions.

>Though you absolutely want the pcs in a more mobile unit that way

Yeah this is important. World War II is absolutely fascinating but I don't think most players are interested in the fundamentally limited concept of playing a grunt. Especially in a conflict that violent. Get zero control of where you go, what weapons you use, btw you've successfully landed on Iwo Jima, roll to not die.

Did they give you a 85%+ chance to hit just by virtue of being shotguns?

I've been toying around with some ideas about grunts and fucking with the medium lately, might as well share them.
So have multi-tier plans in which the pcs are the linchpins. Like with taking a bridge, first they need intel on what germans are going to be hanging around, then some angry frogs have to blow a rail line to prevent the armor from showing up, and someone upstream needs to chute in the night before and blow a dam to prevent surface craft in the rivers.

Don't do a single one of those things in the background, instead set them up like one shots with your more standard soldiers, partisans, paratroopers, they can even reoccur if you stay in the same theater and they survive. Run those missions as hard as possible to give the pcs a bit of a perspective in the war, and change their mission based on the successes and failures of the side runs.

Then at the end of the game, the pcs can buy a round in some no name pub for all of the supporting cast that is still with them.

Dis gud! I’m totally gonna steal the idea. Runt suicide One shots to set up a multi session hero fest, win the war, campgain.

And you can do a ton with it.
Like the recon, you could have the pcs in a fighter detachment meant to secure the recon aircraft that was intercepted halfway up the line by the germans.

I used two blow something up examples those feel a bit samey. The resistance fighters lost their dead drop to another group, now you have to figure out which one and perform a back alley arms deal to get the explosives back before smuggling them to the track.

The paratroopers one, print out like 20 sheets that are all basically the same guy (maybe like 2-3 different loadouts based on squad roll, shuffle them up to make it random, and include different names and a few superfluous skills to give them personality).
Weather turned on us it's raining hard, bad news landing is going to be fucking rough probably won't be able to see the ground, good news is the german flak can't see us either.
Roll some dice.
Player B give me your sheet for a second. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip. He took a flak shell to the leg, the exit tore up his chute, here's your new guy.
Alright everyone roll for landing.
Tear up some more sheets, this guy got stuck in a tree, this guy landing smack dab in a squad of krauts, nobody knows what happened to this guy, this one broke his legs on impact, and this guy didn't even pull his chute in time.
Players are now a bunch of broken squads picking up the pieces. First leg of the mission is to secure the wounded, patch up who you can and hide them in bushes so they don't become pows. Now you don't have as much explosives (or maybe none at all, go cut that guy out of the tree), and 4 hours until the operation begins go go go.

Well that’s yet another level. But I like the idea of doing a super rushed/dangerous funnel with a bunch of runts to simulate how tense getting into action was. It works well I think.

I guess a classless skill system for levelling up would work better, as no matter what initial runt you would get, you would be able to train him in stuff you like later on. Otho skill based charged is usually laborious so making up lots of pregens for say, GURPS would take a long time.

Fuck what anyone else says. Play Top Secret. If you don't know what that game is fuck you, find it & play it