Dumb memeing aside, what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?

Maybe you should fuck off to /pol/

>what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?

There's nothing wrong with it in itself. The reason people get angry is because they are suspicious of the motives behind the push for more queer representation.

Think about the "It's Okay To Be White" posters. When people get angry about these posters, they aren't angry about the content itself. They are angry with the motives of the people posting it.

The problem with including more LGBTQIA+ representation in TT is that it, in my and my friend's opinions, comes off as just trying to check a diversity box. And checking a diversity box just to check it means the exclusion of other stuff that might be more meritable but is excluded in the name of diversity.

If a queer character occurs in a game then whatever, but they shouldn't be included JUST to be included; it ought to be natural. Otherwise you're just doing the silly 90s thing of having a black character, a girl, an asian character, a disabled character just to have them in your media, which is absolutely stupid.

This.

This comes off as pointless pot-stirring, OP. Plus you're going to drag out the /pol/acks and SJWs who think they're actually welcome and in like-minded company here (read: stupid people that see the world they want to see).

Nothing.

How about people make what they want to make, include what they think is a good idea, and you use the parts you like, like any half-intelligent, creative person?

People who want to force people to either include or exclude or be drowned in internet drama can go fuck right off.

>certainly not zero representation, as they're getting now.
Where is "zero representation" of white dudes happening? I haven't seen that anywhere in Veeky Forums media, but I suppose it's possible I just haven't noticed somehow.

>Asking this isn't actually /pol/. It's about the ratios of individuals displayed in traditional games. That's a pretty Veeky Forums topic.
Its a political topic that you posted for the sole reason of baiting people.

You've been shit posting for days with this same shit image.

Three things.

Whenever a minority is introduced it is their only character trait

People are just doing it to be trendy. If I see a gay character or a cross dresser from an old show or whatever I don't get bothered by it cause I know they added that character for a reason other then trying to win points with the SJW crowed.

And fuck off with your "Everybody I don't like is from /pol/" fallacy. 80% of the time people who say go back to /pol/ to other people just for saying like "Why do girls play elves all the time?" TRIGGERED GO BACK TO /POL/

Fuck off. I come to Veeky Forums to avoid the sort of shitposting, baiting, and falseflagging from """/pol/""" that's been plaguing/v/ for years.

On one hand, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. The only ones who seem to care are bigots who hate anything that resembles something homosexual and autists who sperg because they act like gay people didn't exist throughout all ages of human history. On the other hand, I don't understand the overwhelming need for representation in fiction. I don't need fictional people to represent my race/sexuality/etc. I can do that perfectly fine on my own. I don't need gay characters shoehorned into things just so I'll feel good about myself. A lot of times its obvious pandering and a little bit offensive in its approach.

You wind up injecting a pretty heated topic into what was intended to be a social, recreational game. Whatever your stance on it, you can't deny it's going to immediately polarize the activity and energize it with tension.

If you're part of a group that's all on the same page then sure, go for it, play your way. But given the priority at hand is the game which requires a certain degree of group harmony, if I have reason to believe you're going to disrupt things, I won't allow it.

It's no different than removing an edgelord, a furry, That Guy, or anyone else that would cause unrest. You may be convinced it's not the same as something self serving as the aforementioned, but nobody gets together to discuss and/or argue social politics at a gaming meet up. The only person who does is the person who slaps it down on the table and makes it everyone else's problem.

There may be a place for these things but it isn't here, not right now.

Nothing at all. Unfortunately, /pol/ and Veeky Forums have more than a little overlap.

>nobody gets together to discuss and/or argue social politics at a gaming meet up.
I had to practice this when somebody had the bright idea to play a modern day politician with so many falsehoods about their character. Not wanting to slow down the game I just dealt with it with a fake smile.

>what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?
Why does it need to exist?

I miss when Veeky Forums was just filled with fantasy racism.

White males? Jesus, you neofags are cancer.

>unfortunately, not all of Veeky Forums is patting me on the back for superficially tacking a gay dude onto the game for my heroic message
>also, they're /pol/

I would rather have a fag in my group than a roastie.
In fact I generally get on well with the faggots, because they normally know how to play the fucking game. Roasties are always irredeemably shit.

Fags are okay. Lesbians, trans, and women are all whiny shitters.

this, i come here to get away from this shit.

You are probably gonna have to leave Veeky Forums to get away from /pol/ at this point. The cancer has spread all over the stupid chinese basket weaving forum.

There's nothing wrong about it
But there is nothing good about it either

So why bother?
if it ain't broke don't fix it and all that

If 95 percent of your audience are heterosexual white males, and your priority is to include more minority representation in your games, then maybe you need to rethink your marketing strategy.

The problem is that the representation is often done only to be representation with no attempt to make a good character or plot.

As a dyke it's sometimes nice to have characters 'like me' in things but 90% of the time it's their only character trait, and they're just the standard tragic lesbian bullshit trope.

"Representation" is the red herring of a liberal world view that posits various identities as fundamentally the same and interchangeable. By simply "slotting in" queer characters in place of cis-het ones in paroducts, you denude the essence of queer identity and contribute to its subsumption under capital.

I always wondered what lesbians who haven't swallowed the kool-aid think about how most "lesbian" characters in genre fiction are actually just fapbait waifus for sexually-stunted nerd authors.

Fuck off

dah. couldn't have said it better myself, comrade.

What if 95% of those straight white males don't actually care if there's some minority representation, and the 5% although vocal are an easily ignored spastic minority?

What if your wrong? What if a lot of characters are gay already but they don't flaunt it around like a normal fucking human being making it their identity?

Some women are ok, but I've got agree about the lesbians and trans. Some of the most sexually aggressive characters I've meet were played by lesbians, and the biggest cheats being trans

You realise that if 95% of your audience are straight white men it's a sound strategic decision to find some way to broaden your demographic?

It's kind of annoying, really.
Especially since it's usually relatively obvious that it's just for some waifu fapbait or tittilation or whatever.
Still sometimes it just is nice to see yourself represented in some way.
Though it's worth noting that a lack of representation hasn't ever stopped me playing tabletop. Or vidya or anything else.
It's just nice to have it.

Ultimately I think that's the issue.
The kind of person who was so put off by there not being enough gays/lesbians/trannies or whatever colour of the rainbow, isn't the kind of person who ever have enough of a shit to buy it anyway.
Sure, SJWs will probably buy a couple copies of 'omg look you guys this is a roleplaying game about being a tranny in Ancient Rome and trying to persuade the cis het patriarchal society to let you live in peace it's so good' or whatever, but their interest will die down in, what, a year? As soon as the next 'thing' to be angry about appears, they'll stop giving a fuck since they never really cared in the first place.
The people who tried to jump on the SJWs dicks will have got nowhere and probably will swing back to a more 'realistic' balance of things.
People like me will get a bit more face time, but not the 99% FaceTime that SJWs are demanding, and hopefully everything will be okay.

And if not, fuck it, I'll just use my old rule books from before SJWs ruined everything

>WE are the right side of history! Anyone who disagrees with us is a tiny losing minority of deadly Nazis who MUST be ignored!
Really nigga?

Most girls I’ve played with play gnomes and halflings actually.

The sex or sexuality of the characters in most games very rarely come up as remotely relevant unless you're intentionally trying to make it the crux of the story, eg. Someone is rounding up and killing gay people rather than exploring dungeons and shit.

If these things don't actually affect the characters in question, just flip a coin to see if it's a male or female, and roll a d6 to see if they're hetero or not. A good character doesn't rely on their gender or sexuality to stand out.

Some people dislike men who habitually force their genitals into the assholes of other men, some people are fine with that. Do what's best for your group, who cares if someone's character is trans or gay, it's all pretend after all.

who cares about representation? just play the game

>what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?
The problem isn't the "queer" part. It's the "representation" part.

No representation is inherently good. No pandering is ever good. Both of these things should be reduced to a minimum. It's a corporatist play to attract more players, and it hurts the playerbase badly.

When you start pandering to specific groups, you attract players who would not have picked up the hobby if it weren't for the pandering. This is the crux of the issue. These players aren't attracted to the game for its inherent qualities, but because they were pandered too. In an alternate universe where they weren't pandered too, they never would have picked up the hobby.

If you are already a member of a hobby, you do not want to see these kinds of players join, because they want the hobby to move in a different direction than you want it too. While you became part of the hobby for its qualities, they became part of it for its pandering. The only new players you want joining are ones that share your vision of the hobby's future, I.E. players who were drawn to it for the same reasons you were.

All this being said, if you want to make new hobbies/games where queer representation is central and important, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with games like Blue Rose and Numenera that deal extensively with subjects of identity and sexuality; these games will establish their own playerbases with a unified vision on the game's future. But, there's a hell of a lot wrong when these issues get injected into games that never dealt with them before, like trans stuff in MTG's Khans of Tarkir, because this will splinter the playerbase reduce the overall health of the game.

>what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?
Who cares? Why does there need to be a push to ensure we put more in? Just do it if you feel like it or not if you don't. This isn't /pol/ where you need to argue that shit.

>it's a sound strategic decision to find some way to broaden your demographic?

Wait a fucking second.

Since when did "broadening your demographic" become an acceptable strategy for fa/tg/uys? If you're interested in "broadening your demographic," you should go ahead and convert all your intellectual properties into non-offensive mobile phone games with in-app purchases.

One, it's usually pretty irrelevant.
Two, the representation is usually out of proportion.

Oh and three, it can too easily be done in a way that isn't beneficial.

>Unfortunately

Problem, heretic?

>implying queer isn't a dumb meme

You might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you

Go back to r/the_donald

>but certainly not zero representation, as they're getting now

Come now. 90% of all characters are still white dudes. I remember somebody tallied all the ethnicities in the recent MtG set that's got everyone all buttflustered, and, predictably, it was still mostly white guys.

The only TTRPG material I've seen that has genuinely been 60% or more le gays and le wimmins is Beast: The Primadonnas, and even the creators of that pile of shit seem to be hesitant to touch it.

Watch how easily I ignore you.

I gotcha bruh.

but you didn't ignore us. In fact you just did the opposite. Are you new here?

You're aware that that guy is toting around the symbol of the Knights Templar, who, historically, were not fervent supporters of the Crusades and protected pilgrims of all Abrahamic faiths in the Holy Land, right?

>Dumb memeing aside, what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?
Nothing. Only issue I have with some recent developments is that they're blatantly hamfisted attempts.

Changing characterization of established characters is lame, and it doesn't matter if you're making an upbeat character gritty and moody for cheap drama or making a cishet character gay, bi, or transsexual for cheap asspats--at the end of the day, it's a clumsy switchup for a cheap payoff. Most nerds are obsessed with canon and REEEE at changes like that no matter the motive, myself included.

Additionally, a lot of it feels... forced, I guess? Like some of the changes obviously stem from calculated attempts to *seem* diverse without putting any emotion into it. The same issue I have with this is the same issue I have with animu that's 90% ecchi pantyshot fanservice: stop fucking pandering and please treat your audience like an adult. Best example I can think of is the debacle over the first black planeswalker in MtG. WotC was making a point of showing off that they paid a special consultant to advise them on making a black character. First off, it felt really unnecessary to a) go that far, and b) advertise it like that; if they really wanted to make a black planeswalker, they would have simply done it, but what happened reeked of corporate bullshit. Secondly, the resulting character was so fucking generic you might as well have prefaced her name with "Tyler Perry's." It was a cardboard cutout of a character with no depth. It was obvious that her creation process did not begin with someone sitting down excited to bring a new character to life but instead with a meeting of the marketing heads on how to get black people to play MtG rather than YGO.

Basically, give me new characters. Make them interesting. Don't have their characterization start and stop at (single trope) + (minority trait). Give a shit about them so I can give a shit about them.

>Fighting Uruk-hai for ants

Nice pic

Here's an honest opinion:

It can get tiring. Most often it falls into some kind of tragic BS romance, or, and this is WAY too common among players, it's "a guy but with tits and vagina." And you fucking know the ones who do that. They flirt with every female character they interact with, they try to be as crass and boyish as possible, they're thinking with their lower head instead of actually really contributing to the party. Of course this can be true for the opposite side too, more than a few hambeasts that I DM'd for back in my high school days did the same fucking thing for their gay Legolas ripoffs (and it was ALWAYS Legolas, I'd almost have preferred one of them make Drizzt just so they'd change it up).

In either case I don't mind there being a few characters of my orientation in games. I just want CHARACTERS, not props. Way too many people pushing for it don't go beyond props. This isn't an excuse for the other extreme, though. Either "side" of this debate is full of fucking morons and they won't stop responding to bait. Opposite sides of the same shitty d2.

Players who keep ignoring the damn Lich when I bring it up are going to be punished, damn it.

>Dumb memeing aside, what's actually wrong with including more queer representation in tabletop games?

Hey woa there buddy i thought you said dumb memeing aside?

>Using shill tactics for /pol/ on Veeky Forums

I always find it amusing how so many "progressive" types think writing their lesbian power fantasy waifus as aggressive sexual predators isn't insulting. Really shows how most of them are just perverts.

They're a laughably small minority that is already over represented, and often misrepresented. For example, masculine homosexuals existing is quietly swept under the rug by the "Liberal" community. Because they don't want their token niggers demonstrating any redneck, blue collar, or Independent action that isn't on their smarmy check list. Like being interested in guns or getting into fist fights like drunken asshole chaves.

/thread

Your retarded /pol/bait should go on /pol/

And you should go on /trash/

You just threw letters in there to make the LGBT community sound even more important didn't you?

Ironically for me, the worst example of 'awful lecherous lesbian character' was one of the women in my group recruited solely from a lesbian social group.

She was fucking awful in a lot of ways, but she played that character exactly like every unimaginative neckbeard I'd seen do it over the years.

>You just threw letters in there to make the LGBT community sound even more important didn't you?

LGBTQIA+ is legit, it's not made up.

>LGBTQIA+ is legit, it's not made up.
So is Scientology

>why can’t I have two queens in chess

>"you made that thing sound stupid, didn't you!"
>"no, it exists"
>"but it's stupid!"
goalposts

You can, if you can get a pawn to the other side of the board.

Once again, /pol/ confirmed for retards who don't actually play any games.

>My rook identifies as a knight

This guy knows what's up.

But /pol/ is bullies and Veeky Forums might kinda be an ally...can you blame us for coming here? Your hobby draws smart, creative people who could understand where we're coming from...

Are you trying to say that gayness and ending your genetic line isnt stupid? Because im pretty sure sacrificing breeding for orgasms is the very definition of a short sighted, no strategy behavior.

If anyone is moving the goal posts, its you.

Get a darwin award.

Can they fug

See

SJWs don't play traditional games, just like they don't play video games or read comics, and the sales numbers of companies in those other fields that catered to them prove it. Abandoning your core demographic on an attempt to broaden it is NEVER a good strategy.

Yeah you got to earn that second queen. They just want a second one right from the start without working for it

Has anyone else noticed?

>yester day
>thread about how GAYMERS is weird and not relating to Veeky Forums
>perfectly hetero thread goes to /lgbt/

>today
>thread that is PRO gay.
>allowed to stay here
>not redirected to /pol/

Its true.
Weather your right does depend on which faction your on.
Apparently.

Fuck off

Because the lesbians in particular think they can get away with it and are owed a waifu. Lesbians being cancer isn't just a meme, you know. As for the trannies...no idea m8.

You know the rules about admitting your sex here. Post 'em, even disgusting hamplanet tits fulfill the letter of the law.

Scientists in my setting worked out all genetic defects.

Memes aside, like ~6% (and that’s generous) of people in America are gay so it’s probably 3% worldwide. That’s about 3/100 people that are gay.

I’m also a firm believer in chekhov’s gun, so if it’s unimportant I leave sexuality out of the picture.

Therefore it is highly unlikely that my PC’s meet a person who is gay/trans/etc, and even more unlikely that they need to know that person’s sexuality.

Can confirm. A lesbo in my group is constantly making things sexual and asking how good the women look among other problems

No, it's dumb, but that's not what you were arguing with that user about.

You said that you bet he made all that stuff up. As it turns out, he didn't: a completely different idiot made all that stuff up.

I've only ever had one tranny in a gaming group, and it acted exactly the way that /pol/ said it would act.

Trannies are a crapshoot. Sometimes they're just otherwise agreeable weirdos, and other times they're the absolute worst cocktail of obnoxious antisocial nerd behaviors you can experience.

>Moving the goalposts
Actually, that's another broadly game metaphor, so you probably don't understand that one either, huh?

>zero representation, as they're getting now

what the fuck are you talking about?

Are you saying you're annoyed that there aren't enough chubby white losers in games? Or are you saying there literally aren't any white dudes in modern Veeky Forums?

dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/tales-yawning-portal

I went to wizard's site, to their tabletop rpgs products section. Other than a dragon and a skeleton this is THE FIRST PERSON. A white male. So go fuck yourself and quit crying over literally made up issues.

>Your hobby draws smart, creative people who could understand where we're coming from...

Im smart and creative.
And i understand where your coming from.
You are degenerates.
You think that no one has the right to tell you what your identity should be.
Well you half right.
The body of science should tell you what your identity should be.
Before you go lobbying and faking science to allow you to do it.
Your sexuality is one big circular argument fallacy.

Also, way to move the goalposts that only someone who is smart and creative agrees with you and presumably anyone who disagrees with you is not smart nore creative.
Oh look another circular argument, with a bit of moving the goalposts too.

You cant be that smart...

Youve got the wrong guy, im a different user.

I really do hate that. They pretend they're being "progressive" so they don't get called out on their blatant fetishized fantasies. Though amusingly I see more of them with actual interest in RPGs (as in, doing it for reasons other than wanting to jerk it) than I see the other side of the d2 doing so. Which makes me feel a special kind of disdain towards these clear bait threads. But they're gonna get replies anyway, just like the one about MONOPOLY did the other day.

Doesn't really surprise me. It's the same mindset behind the yaoi fangirl shit, just switched targets. Anyone who's actually interacted with girls knows better. Being terrible people isn't gender exclusive. Hooray equality.

>Flip to one page
>In one book
>See the problem doesn't exist!