Old Necromunda vs. Newcromunda

I actually don't mind the models, and honestly think they'd look better with more competant paint jobs.

That being said, GW's attempts at chopping up the rules and putting them into different books DLC style is abhorrent.

>TFW mention to a friend that they're coming out with yet another damn supplement book this soon.
>Friend tries to justify it by saying that it's "a different game" and tries to compare it to the difference between 40k and apocalypse or kill team.
>Mention to him that it's literally all for the same damn game, and that these rules should've been in the same fucking book in the first place.
>Argument ensues. Probably lost friend for good.

Hahaha.. well at least i'm not friends anymore with someone who sucks GW's cock like him? huh?

*Cries as he realizes he lost the closest friend he had online to talk about 40k with.

what did the deleted post say?

Yeah, Gang War doesn't feel worth it's price and it's pretty apparent that they're going to split the rules across multiple books. If those books were cheap I could stomach it, but £17.50 is quite a lot for a thin book.

I'm also not a fan of how sparse the trading post options in Gang War are. Really feel that their philosophy to not put rules out for anything without a model is going to gobble the game until the end of next year.

...

Gang release schedule is shit.

So not going to pick it up till established. Fuck 'em.

I was going to ask if there was any information on Ratskins but then I realised that even if they went back to the old original Ratskin style the miniatures would still be 32mm not 28mm.

We aren't going to get anything that aren't the six main gangs before 2019 at the earliest. Didn't even get rules for them in the Legacy Gangs PDF.

>The old ones have that glorious goofy look
The old gangs, and the less old updated gangs are a horrendously mixed bag of quality. On one hand, you got jes goodwin in his prime sculpts, on the other hand you got shit like the plastic goliaths and orlocks. Not to mention all the trainee sculptor models that littered the later years of the specialist games.

The new gangs sacrifice variety for overall quality. Being plastic means they're going to be a whole lot easier to convert, which is very important to me as someone who never really liked any of the main houses and did my own thing.

the new rules are "good" but don't really grab me

Not a fan of GWs 'no generic stuff' policy and necromunda suffers badly from each gang getting a very distinct identity with little room to make them your own. Same as guard regiments all being from one of eight worlds or clones of them, marines only coming in ten varieties, every character having maybe two different builds...

On the other hand, GW is really good at making distinctive identities for their non-marine forces and the gangs stand out from each other nicely. Weird heavy weapons for each of them are fun.

I'm really glad to see GW doing more random humans miniatures and the conversion potential is appealing. Not a huge fan of the Escher sculpts, which is a shame because I think they had real potential. Goliaths look OK. Orlocks look really good.

If they release gorkamorka with the same ethos though, GW are getting all my money.

GeeDub have said the other gangs will be out early 2018.

You've seen GW (i.e. Andy Hoare) say they will release pdf rules for the other factions at the start of next year? If yes, please link us a source.

My issue is that it's just way too slow.

2/3 of my group want gangs that haven't released yet, and the Gang I want (Arbites/Enforcers) hasn't even been announced. (Same goes for one of the others with Redemptionists.)

>2/3 of my group want gangs that haven't released yet, and the Gang I want (Arbites/Enforcers) hasn't even been announced. (Same goes for one of the others with Redemptionists.)
You realise that neither of those was part of core Necromunda and neither was available until quite some time later?

The models do look pretty good. Escher isn't my thing, either. Goliath look OKAY but they're all too similar, and Orlocks look amazing with the Mad Max vibe they have going on.

That's not really an excuse not to include them in the new edition of Necromunda at the start.

For example, Tau were ok n 40k until much later on. By your logic then it would be perfectly fine for GW to not release rules for them until a year or two after 8th released.

Fucking MONOPOSE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Tau were not in*

Weren't enforcers also hugely OP?

Hugely no? Nah.

Strong? Yes.

They could tune it.

Wasn't there a forgeworld preview recently of an arbities with a cyber mastiff?

I am mostly pissed at the intern level editing and proofreading. There are skills printed on cards that aren't in the book. There are weapon traits printed in the book that aren't explained in the book. One skill in the list is randomly out of alphabetical order. There are similar versions of whole or partial sentences repeated in the text from half finished editing. There are at least two tactics cards that are misprinted into uselessness. There are some weapons listed in one book and not the other, or listed in one book but with stats in the other. Two versions of gang lists with different prices for the same things. It's a fucking trainwreck.

But the core combat rules are a huge improvement.

You're thinking of that 2012 Event only enforcer.

Nah. You had great gear, but caps on the number of gangers you could bring. They also progressed poorly relative to regular gangs.

You're complaining about a gang that was never really official to begin with; they may never see the light of day. House gangs and outlanders are coming out before you see anything that came out in one of the magazines.

Enforcers were designed as a ringer team for campaigns.

they basically ignored all the regular progression/territory/gear rules that make necromunda interesting, which made them fucking boring as regular opponents.

You could eventually take both patrols at once depending on the gang rating of the opponent.

>COME, SMALL CHILD. THE EMPEROR DEMANDS YOU TAKE UP A POSITION OF COMMAND. PURGE THE SUB-HUMAN FILTH AND HERETICS FROM THE GALAXY.

>Has models made specifically for Necromunda by both GW and FW.
>Unofficial

It was official.

It wasn't in the core rules.
It wasn't in the expansion.
It was eventually published in a magazine.

I have no idea why you'd expect it to be immediately playable or, in fact, to get included at all.

>Enforcers were designed as a ringer team for campaigns.
>they basically ignored all the regular progression/territory/gear rules that make necromunda interesting, which made them fucking boring as regular opponents
Yep. Useful for the campaign organizer to use when he needs to push the gangs around to move the campaign in a particular direction.

Only played by colossal faggots as an actual gang though.

They made them for 2nd ed 40k, weren't in any codex for that either. They used to just make shit back then.

>That's not really an excuse not to include them in the new edition of Necromunda at the start.
>For example, Tau were ok n 40k until much later on. By your logic then it would be perfectly fine for GW to not release rules for them until a year or two after 8th released.
So you think that everything ever included in Necromunda ever should have been included in the new version on day 1.

I guess you're just a fucking idiot?

You think the raging newfag knows anything about that?

Yea, I agree. The old models where totally better!

It's an interesting question. I know average Veeky Forums age is @ 20-21; anyone done a survey of the average Veeky Forums age?

Enforcers were made official with the 2nd run of Necromunda, no?

>You could eventually take both patrols at once depending on the gang rating of the opponent.
Sure, but running up that it would be difficult and ultimately if things went on long enough that would get difficult as well.

Not sure if this post is meant to be unironic or not, because the old Goliath is literally better than both of those new sculpts. More detailed =/= better.

Is there a pdf of Gang War yet?

Oh... Wow, yet another "my point of view is what´s matter" thread about Necromunda. A thread filled to the brim with players of old and new trying to convince the other that they are indeed right. All the while applying a autistic filter as thick as chun lee´s thighs and with no intention of even getting close to a middle ground.

All In all, its aimed for disaster... So what am I waiting for? Ill join in of course. Here's my two cents on the matter.

First up, the game. No matter what many thinks, I believe this type of "board game clash" to be the future of GW. They will sell more and more of these, as it is great to lure new players in to the hobby. And the reason for it is that new players actually spend money on shit, old players don't. They have to many opinions, to much experience and are to damn cheep (living their kidult life until the age of 45 will get you there). And When new players pick up a box of a board game, there is also the small chance they will eventually delve deeper in to the realm of GW. This is all about money, and GW don't care for people who don't spend it. They don't care for the 50 grognards screaming at the top of their lungs that they don't like the models, the rules and the layout. If you like it you buy, if you don't you don't. Sad but true, this is the new policy of GW, and who can really blame them with fans that must have been one of the worst crowd ever to please.

On to the miniatures. I like them. They follow the old esthetics of goofy punk rock underhive look, all the while not being made in a two press mold that made the models look flat and extremely boring. On a plus side, its all multi part plastics and I just love what you can do with this stuff with a bit of imagination. But that's me, I never was much for the old monoposed metalsluggers that was a bitch to convert.

Well, there you have it. Ill play it as a 2d game with added xp rules and open campaign.

That's a lot of text just to say you're a fucking retard, user.

where are my arbites

>More detailed =/= better.

The wrongest statement ever made.

Better is a personal opinion. It certainly don't have better details, or even sharper details. You can easily see this on stuff like the gun, shoulder and the Mohawk for instance. Its a classic 2 pres mold, so its rather flat, other than the sword (which is a separate piece).

The second part is the pose, and the options you can have with them. We have so far all seen the plastic sprues of the new Goliath, and how you can customize the face and so on. No need to mention more on that. And then its the body, again we see (at least from the left), actual movement. The guys standing still has a bit of a wide stance, not my favorite, but it still beats the "I just shit my pants" pose, literally 85% of old metal models had back in the day.

Sure you can argue about this all day, but in the end its just a personal opinion. I myself think the old model looks horrid to be frank, absolutely disastrous.

Yes, lots of text certainly means your a retard. This is exactly what I explained, you nailed it user, now go feel proud.

Look at new plague marines. Half the details are weird ass tentacle garbage. Id take the old ones, or just some well painted dudes in MK2 armor any day.

>being this retarded
Sad.

I think the real bonus here with the just about anything in the new plastic range is that its optional. You don't like that grenade pack? Don't put it on. You're not sure how you feel about the new Nurglings? Skip them, and so forth.

Take as an example. That old dude might appeal to some people of the crowd, but you cannot customize it nearly as good as the new models. If you don't like that grenade at the hip, you heed to hack and saw and eventually fix with green stuff! With a new model, you simply don't glue the grenade on.

And in all honesty, looking at that picture alone, what do you think would appeal to a new generation of wargamers? Im no expert that knows right from wrong, but my guess is that a re-release of Necromunda using old models such as this, and you would have to wait another 25+ years until GW offered a new attempt to re-make the game. It simply wouldn't sell, an no, not even to old guys like me (because I already own these old ass models, boxed away deep down in my cellar).

The way they're releasing stuff is especially odd since we just got Shadespire, were ll the rules are in the main box (which is also almost half the cost of Necromunda's) and two more gangs came within a few weeks.

The details I literally just mentioned ARNT optional though...

The tosos and legs are one part, the arms are designed for a specific torso.

Do not pretend the new models are designed to be customisable either, friend.

Have you even watched the sprues? They are literally crammed with grenades, shit swinging from hips, knives, extra armour plates and so on and so forth!
You just really wants to be right about this don't you? Well as of now, all you're doing is painting yourself up as a fucking idiot.

I dont even know what you're talking about. Yeah, there's extra bits, but Im complaining about how shit some models look because they have too much intrinsic, non-optional detail, which is why I used the new plague marine kit as an example. Did you even read my post? Did you mean to respond to somebody else?

You get tons of plastic options. Easy to cut, easy to swap. What you do with it is up to you friend. The problem, real problem, with the old metal models was the lack of options for new players. If you didn't have a few years down the hobby, risk was you didn't have anything to convert with. GW nowadays is giving you this, they are literally spoon feeding you shit, and still you complain.

On the flip side, most people on Veeky Forums are the 10 grognards repeating the same sentence over and over again. And Im OK with that, what Im not OK with is people doing so while not understanding its a personal opinion and not facts.

Again, I was talking more broadly, as most new GW kits comes with tons of extras. But hey, if you don't like the esthetics, why even bother dude?

I want multipart models I can actually swap things around on. I want to be able to use any torso out of the box on any legs with any arms. I do not want to be forced to use arms set A on toso/legs A with gun A in pose A and FUCK YOU if you want anything different!11

Yup, they've spent years trying to get ye-old Space Marine players to actually buy shit, but instead the players just bitch and whine.

I like Newcromunda, I just wish they would speed up the release schedule.

All Im saying is that more detail isnt always better. Thats my entire argument. I gave an example, then you started going off about optional bits.

>easy to cut, easy to swap.

The way GW makes muscled arms mate with torsos is NOT easy to cut around.

Guys anyone has scans of Gangwar ? Got my box but Gangwar was not aveliable ...

Your best bet is to wait for reddit to do it since nobody on Veeky Forums wants/likes the new necromunda

You seem to be confused, I'll see if I can clear things up for you: the new plague marine kits don't have anything to do with Necromunda. Yeah, sure, they have details that not everybody is a fan of, and they lack customisation, but that has no bearing on the options on Necromunda sprues and is a subject for another thread. The arms on the Newcromunda models are designed so that they'll fit on to every torso, for a multipart plastic kit there are a huge number of options pretty much all of which fit with every single model. Just about the only thing they lack is a separate torso and legs, but the reason for that seems to be about carrying details across the waist and the fact that they can vary the pose of the legs a bit more by having separate parts from the knee down. They even have fully swappable hairstyles, there's not really much more they could have done to give players options for customising their models. Certainly it blows single pose solid metal minis out of the water.

Everything I said was a response to this . Yeah, it has nothing to do with necromunda, but thats not what the statement I was commenting on was about. I appreciate the essay, but I wish you had spent even half as much time reading the thread.

You're a moron. I'm playing with them now; bodies are monopose, but everything else is as modular as you would normally expect. The only bit of wierdness I've bumped into is the leader's jacket only goes with the shock whip arm, but swapping to a sword wasn't an issue.

...

Is it just me, or does the dude on the right's right wrist look broken? Like it looks like his hand is at a really wonky angle in comparison to the forearm.

Not true. If those details don't actually add anything and are only there for the sake of more detail then they're pointless and mean nothing. I've seen modelsnlittered with needless greebly detail and they lack any character compared to some less detailed models.

>Look at new plague marines. Half the details are weird ass tentacle garbage.
But without that, pus or making their armor somehow swell and rot how would you know they're Nurgle, user?

I really like these FW underhive scum´s. Any news on when they will be released?

You actually think people on Veeky Forums knows shit like this before they post their opinions? This guy still wont change his mind though, if he has made up his mind that the arms, heads and weapons wont swap, he wont believe it even if you show him.

>(Arbites/Enforcers)
we all do user.
we all do

>delague is last out the door.
>let's do the first 6 with the worst gangs.
(escher is fine but who wanted Goliath?)

it isn't you mong

>I like Newcromunda
i don't like the rules myself but i can dig the new models

>But without that, pus or making their armor somehow swell and rot how would you know they're Nurgle, user?

Shoulderpads, some more subtle mutations, and paint.

Nah, gotta go totally over the top!

I guess they wanted shooty vs. melee in the core box? I'm right there with you. I would have rather seen Orlocks vs. Delaque myself.

>No YourDudes Allowed

This is the sticking block that keeps me out of both Shadespire and Newcromunda.

The whole fucking point of skirmish games is the hero's journey, building him as you see fit as you go, and they lock you out of that in both games.

I don't understand why.

I'll agree that the special weapons for the Goliath and Escher warbands are pretty great and characterful though.

Yup, release schedule is game-killingly slow.

Newcomunda has Your Dudes though? Your guys totally can gain exp and improve.

>shooty vs. melee in the core box
Goliath and Escher are both melee gangs, though one does it objectively better than the other
>Orlocks vs. Delaque
yeah i'd have loved it

>Nah, gotta go totally over the top!
Says who? In my opinion, GW's best models have a clean, understated design. Stuff like Vargard Obyron, The Emperor's Champion, and even only moderately detailed models like the Masters of The Chapter or Kabalite Warriors look better than the busy, over-wrought stuff that GW keeps churning out nowadays.

Maybe thats just me, and I accept that, but the fact that models keep getting gummed up with extraneous details to justify making them more expensive is a big reason that I havnt came back to the hobby yet after having quit back in mid 7e.

>I am mostly pissed at the intern level editing and proofreading
This is exactly the level of embarrassing shit GW need to be not doing when making moves that are derided by their long-term customers as cash grabs.

The problem is this. Their long term customers isn't buying shit. Or at the very least not even close to what a new customer pays.

This is marketing at its core. A new customer spends as much as he ever will during his or hers first years of the hobby. A veteran of twenty years however, he wont buy shit. He already has everything he needs. He converts what ever he doesn't like with parts from third party producers. He don't go out and buy GW official tools, he goes to his home depot and gets stuff for a fraction of the price. I could go on, but I have already made my point. There was a good reason GW scrapped Warhammer Fantasy. Because all the veterans for that game didn't buy shit! New players spend money, and that's what any company wants its that simple.

Not that guy, but that's not something hard to do. I mean, because there's already a base (old) rules roughly 50% of the work is already done. This is just more gw being gw, no other reason.

Yeah I remember hearing somewhere GW has an actual money amount to that. Their data shows the new guy will spend X amount in X years and then poof! Gotta replace him with someone new. I wonder if their new style of releases is to combat this a bit?

Every thread someone beats the plague marine dead horse topic to death. They obviously are doing something right because the army sells pretty decently, not counting DI. I love my nasty boys though the one problem I have is typhus, and the new LoC. Primarch users are waac. On the topic of necromunda models the orlocks and cawdor(hopefully) will make prefect acolytes or cultists.

As someone who has only been buying from GW for around 2 years, this is true. However, the only reason I don't buy much from GW is the price. 25% reduction and I would buy so much more. Instead, I just focus my hobby/fun time elsewhere

Its not just GW. This is marketing 101. A new customer will spend just about as much in his first year, than a veteran of 20 years will do his following 10 years.
And if you look at it that way, you know the math just wont ad up if you constantly bend the knee to the "loyal fans".

This. I have played since 95. I have all the old marines. I don't want to deal with the new models with their tiny details. Hell, I stick to 2nd.3rd rules. Every fucking model doesn't need a special rule.

I missed out on Necromunda the first time around. I'm switching over to it now. As a new Necromunda player, I am buying everything. If they release the game again in the future if I'm alive and still playing, I won't have any desire to pick up anything outside of new weapon bits and mercenaries.

but you don't have to use arms A with torso A.

haha epic reply you truly smashed that guy, upvoted!

>tentacles show that something is nurgle
user please

Ah, didn't know that. Just noticed the M.C. Escher girls seem go have more guns while the Goliath guys seem to have a large array or stupid and impractical looking melee weapons.

I'm with you 100%, man. GW's recent "cram in more needless detail!" method bugs the shit out of me.

>have more guns while the Goliath guys
yeah i don't know why.
both have primary skills in fighting. goliath have more or less been denied autoguns and lazguns.
What they get is, 2 shotguns for the rank and file more or less on the spure (4 in total), a couple trash pistols and a bunch of guns for specialists.

Some how the escher come out on top most of the time despite having -s/t than the roid beasts.

The intent of any boxed game is to lure people into something. For example deathwatch overkill was pretty much entirely designed to get people to start GSC or Deathwatch armies and Burning of Prospero was intended to promote new HH plastics. You're making a mistake thinking that GW doesn't care if grognards actually buy these products or not, grognards do, in fact buy them, generally as a source of cheap models with which to start new armies so GW knows they can rely on that for some portion of their sales.

The difference here is that necromunda is the start of a new fairly extensive product line and uses assets that do not have any function outside of necromunda. In this instance, as with bloodbowl necromunda has to be successful not just as a boardgame but also as a specialist game.

Which makes it much more important for GW for necromunda to actually be good. Which is a problem considering the editorial disaster that is the rules, but that's the standard for GW at the moment.

Out of curiosity, what is wrong with the rules? I haven't actually played either version of Necromunda so I wouldn't know.

I have one. Cost me $40 bucks off eBay, but it's my baby. Wish I had a picture, I swapped out the bald head for on of the FW Cadian heads with gas masks.