Just got back from taking my kid to go see Coco. In short, without giving too much away: It's a movie about the Mexican "Day of the Dead" holiday, and a kid does something to end up in the Land of the Dead. It's quite good.
That had me wondering: What if the undead and necromancers were more neutral in D&D and other high-fantasy games? And could possibly even have an upbeat, colorful, and jaunty presentation to them for more good-inclined intentions?
Sebastian Sanchez
I mean, it's possible, but depending on how you balance it you might risk throwing away a great evil faction
Charles Phillips
>It's quite good.
Let me guess, you're hispanic.
Chase Bennett
Undead got a bunch of boons in D&D because the Lich is a classic enemy to fight. So unless the whole 'dead people belong in the Underworld' problem gets solved, someone is gonna be fucking pissed when it turns out they can't be super DeadMaster McSolvesEverything.
William Fisher
Not him, but I'm white and thought it was great. Maybe it's because of my low expectations since Pixar hasn't come out with anything good in almost a decade. But that's irrelevant to the thread.
There's really nothing necessarily evil about necromancy. Bringing the dead back to life without enslaving them or communicating with ancestors should be perfectly acceptable behavior in a fantasy setting.
Jayden Hall
Let me guess, it didn't pander to your tastes
Julian Jones
Hello newbies, welcome to Veeky Forums.
Jace Rodriguez
>It's a movie about the Mexican "Day of the Dead" holiday, and a kid does something to end up in the Land of the Dead. It's quite good.
WOAH NO WAY DUDE SPOILER THAT SHIT HOMBRE
Eli Baker
I'm always fond of the Ancestral Spirits trope. A tribe of Barbarians that worship no gods, and have no afterlife to go to, instead bind the spirits of their dead into talismans. Elders don centuries of wisdom bound into their primitive jewelry, warriors fight with maces and axes filled with the vengeful dead, and a single shrine at the center of camp holds the venerated ancestors.
Leo Flores
Oh crap you figured it out!!
People can only like or appreciate artwork that's representative of their own nationality! TUMBLR WAS RIGHT!
THE CONCEPT OF SOMEONE APPRECIATING A SETTING UNRELATED TO THEIR OWN NATIONALITY IS IMPOSSIBLE!
Every single weeb on this board is a liar! NONE OF THEM LIKE JAPAN!
Daniel Jones
Necromancy WAS neutral, moral panic happened
All healing magic was originally necromancy
Logan Campbell
Madre de dios
Matthew Phillips
Because the undead in dnd are not like modern day pop culture pixar. They are monsters, horrible and miserable, and spreading their misery. And necromancers sick creatures, often mad and malevolent, who use magic for selfish reasons, whatever the cost. Having slaves, killing enemies, acquiring immortality they do not deserve, or just watch the world burn.
The realms of the deads are different things, and some, like the house of the Triad, are literraly paradises filled with good people.
The day of the dead is ancestor and god worship, and a social way to try to exorcise the fear of the worst thing, the end of your existence with no real assurance to have an afterlife. In dnd, there is an afterlife and if you do the right things, you will have it. Conscious undeads and necromancers are afraid of this afterlife for a reason. Not respecting the gods, committing crimes, etc. So no, unless you change dnd setting, undeads and necromancy will still be one of the most horrible things.
Jeremiah Young
I thought about swapping out tiefling with free willed zombie in 5th ed. As player race option.
Henry Torres
Also, I liked Coco, but by son was ready to go before it ended. What happens in the last 10 min?
Carson Roberts
...
Jonathan Morris
Way to bringer a downer on thread hombre.
Isaiah Perry
Also this movie
Cooper Gutierrez
Clearly has a stick up his ass hombre.
Gabriel Robinson
We're allowed to like anime because the Japanese said it was a mistake.
Nathan James
There are good and neutral undead in D&D it's just a matter of how they work in the world.
The typical evil necromancy is one where a spirit is forced into a situation it should not be in and denied the ability to rest. Their anguish becomes a literal force of nature that corrupts and destroys life around it and can even lead said spirit to becoming mindless being of hate and pain depending upon the specific undead in question.
Whereas in the movie you're talking about they arn't roaming the world of the living and are in their proper place. If they come back or interact with the world of the living it's through ordained means and they don't stick around and people honor and revere their dead by means of proper burial and funeral rites.
That said people forget that necromancy means speaking with the dead so all the "lol spoopy skelebros!!!111" thing is only half of the picture. If you focus on simply speaking to spirits and dedicating yourself to placating their issues then that's a way to have a good necromancer. But then, this is Veeky Forums so naturally you're going to have people clamoring for the industrial necromancer who lawfully gained the bodies he raises to suddenly create a utopia where no one but the dead are made to labor.
Evan Butler
Miyazaki is the Jesse Jackson of Japanese people y'know.
Jose Moore
They all look the same to me.
Blake Jenkins
this makes me want to add a NotSpain style kingdom to my setting where necromancy is considered the most holy type of magic and the line between the living a dead is blur.
Jordan Ward
>Necromancy was totally fine >But this ONE careless kid got his brain chewed out by a zombie and suddenly there's a massive outrage among puritan Christian soccer moms >Suddenly Republicans are up in arms trying to ban necromancy and calling us "devil worshippers" and "a sin against nature" >But recreational necromancy is totally harmless!