Why is Veeky Forums afraid to talk about Dragonlance?

What I can say about Dragonlance is: Go play Greyhawk instead.

Is there even anything to talk about in Dragonlance setting?

Lord Soth was the only good thing about the setting, and only because of his connection to Ravenloft.

Gully dwarf.

There are some people who want to be the Underdog. The one whom nobody would bet on who's up against the world, but who's accomplishments are all the more sweet for having achieved them with a massive handicap.
But nobody wants to be the absolute dregs.

What's there to say? It's a dead setting that was bad, but not bad enough to be interesting. Has anyone even used it this century?

So, as someone who has never played it, why was it bad?

I think there's a movie set in it. Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

Yah.

But that wouldn't get replies.

What?

It didn't age well, the books and setting feel childish and amateurish.

Counter Monkey

Because its not good. One might even say its bad.

It might be something to do with the fact Dragonlance's fandom is concentrated amongst fantasy readers and not Veeky Forums players.

Or the fact that the setting is full of hideous concepts, like the atrocious "Balance of Good & Evil" setup, the badly written Gods, or the worse-written "comedic relief" races.

Case in point, this setting gave us Kender and Tinker Gnomes. Does anyone remember it also gave us playable minotaurs and draconians? Nope, they just remember Kender and Tinker Gnomes..

Why no one wants to talk about Dragonlance:

-The main characters of the books/setting were the only ones that actually mattered in terms of getting real shit done and thus made every player-made adventurer into a third wheel unless you have the player made party outright replace every major character in the book.

- The "Gods of Good" are a bunch of flaky shits who ditch their believers faster then a shitty black man dodges child support. The Gods of Neutrality are the real Gods of Good as far I'm concerned.

- The 'balance of good and evil' is dumb as shit and made no sense to me what-so-ever. Someone who turns their city state into something out of Orwell's nightmares sounds like they're just seizing absolute power and control and are just using good as an excuse to do it in the first fucking place.

- Kender. I would seriously consider never running a Dragonlance again just to avoid these fuckers being played by That Guys. And I know these shitheads were the authors answer to why all 1e Halflings were Thieves but I honestly would rather they just never answered that question in the fucking first place.

- Raistlin Majere and Tanis Half-Elven are the whiniest assholes this side of Tidus from Final Fantasy X.

- And as much I 'tolerate' the Forgotten Realm, the most popular DnD stuff (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Eye of the Beholder and Neverwinter Nights) that is still talked about and adored to this day is from that setting. Even Greyhawk has the The Temple of Elemental Evil game made by Troika. Compared to that, Dragonlance doesn't have shit.

Satisfied, OP?

>it gave us That Guy bait
>does anyone remember that it also gave us other That Guy bait?

Oh, don't forget the setting was clumsy Mormon religious propaganda! It's basically the Battlefield: Earth of Veeky Forums. Or whatever the hell that book was that Hubbard wrote that was ostensibly science-fiction, but was really the precursor to Scientology.

>be the neophyte who mixes the Orders robes
>kender.jpg
>oops

I really despise when people post this. 3.5's rendition of Dragonlance was literally such garbage that it hurt to read. This page is so inaccurate as to how kender are actually treated and represented in the books that it's practically a different race, and these are the pages where people get the "lol I stole all the gold and magic items cause I'm a kender, you can't be mad it's my race, dude"

That's wrong. That isn't how it works. Kender take interesting things. Gold isn't interesting, there's a ton of it. Those monogrammed spoons are interesting. That ship in a bottle is interesting. That ornate feather quill is interesting. Add to that that hardly anyone in universe likes kender. They're banned from several major cities. They're kind and personable, but such a nuisance that nobody wants to deal with them.

Okay, do you have a copy of the Kender PC writeups from before 3rd edition? I've heard this complaint before, and I've never actually seen any of the earlier PC writeups outside of the Kender showing up in AD&D's "Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings".

Admittedly, I don't. I'm basing solely on their representation in the novels. Basically if Tasslehoff hadn't been associated with (and been one of) the most important heroes of the third age, nobody would have tolerated him either. The kender presented in the 3.0 book are basically what my theoretic That Guy said, basically you can steal what you want and everyone loves you, but that's just not how they're depicted in the fiction.

When the setting isn't bland it's fucking stupid.

Part of the problem was that the 3.0/3.5 source books were based on all the retarded shit that happened in their edgelord follow on series. The OG setting was fun, but all the retcon nonsense they did with the series that followed the Twins books is just pure CW-tier drama.

>Army of bad things is taking over the land
>Must unite everyone to stop them
>Elvish lands are dealing with an evil artifact
>The dwarves are in the middle of a succession struggle
>Have to go looking for an ancient lost relic of good
>Will have to live through a big siege at some point
>One of your allies is a wizard of questionable ethics who has ties to an immortal, evil wizard
>Ending the evil army will probably involve someone sacrificing their life
>some dwarves are really, really dumb
>everything in the setting after the first story is pointless and stupid
Oh, I dunno, I feel like I hear about it all the time.

FUCKING HELL, forgot the goddamn pic.

>Compared to that, Dragonlance doesn't have shit.
But there's Heroes of the Lance for Sega Master System. That alone outshines all the other stuff.

I mean are you really saying that you've heard it before and then posting Dragon Age? Cause DL is from the eighties, friend. I'm not saying it's particularly unique or innovative, but come on.

I was just joking about how the only almost good Dragon Age game had to basically steal the plot of the most skubtastic adventure ever from a world that's otherwise completely forgettable.

Oh. I didn't play Inquisition so I didn't realize, I thought you were saying Dragon Age as a whole. My bad, carry on

>Someone who turns their city state into something out of Orwell's nightmares sounds like they're just seizing absolute power and control and are just using good as an excuse to do it in the first fucking place.
Are you talking about the Priestking? Because, yeah, that was the whole fucking point.

Here's the problem, though: every reader agrees that the Kingpriest was evil. But the BOOKS say that the Kingpriest was wrong for "making Good TOO STRONG".

Dragonlance was a product of it's time. "Muh balance" and "muh neutrality" were popular ideas at the time.

Mormon here. Read everything up through War of Souls. I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. This bait works better if you use Battlestar Galactica as the setting.

Really? You never noticed that the Plainsmen are based on the Mormon belief that Native Americans are the lost tribe of Israel? Or the similarities between Goldmoon finding the Disks of Mishakal and Joseph Smith's receiving the Urim and Thummim from the Angel Moroni?

seems faggy

Because the Dragonlance readers of 1987 are too fucking old to be blathering about it on Veeky Forums. And everything after the original trilogy is Just Plain Awful.

I'll say this for it: Dragonlance is a really great title.

The amusing thing about this is that the Thief has always drawn a lot of the same complaints. Mainly because That Guys use "I can take things without people noticing" to mean "I can steal from my own party members".

The books were okay, but it seems every iteration of the tabletop campaign books save the first take place in eras of peaceful reconstruction. All major conflicts are over, so the PCs only ever engage in local affairs.

Here's a better question, why do women love Dragonlance so much?

Because they think it revolves around brave knights in shining armor flying around on the backs of majestic dragons?

because people think they're too cool to ride flying lizards unless they order from Bad Dragon

Dragonlance was awsome

I like it, but there is guaranteed to be "but muh kender!" shitpostering.

I played through the Dragonlance adventures trilogy (Dragon Dawn/Dragon Knight/Dragon's Rest) about 20 years ago with my then 15 or 16 year old older brother as DM. The modules are set on Taladas so the setting's most retarded stuff is off on another continent. I would recommend at least looking them over if you ever see them.

If I remember correctly I was a fire beetle beast rider and a friend of ours was a rogue of some sort. We partnered up with a copper dragon and a defective pseudodragon. I ended up with a lesser dragonlance. Our buddy backstabbed an aurak draconian which are the ones that go ape-shit when killed, set themselves on fire, run around, and then explode. You end up fucking with some plans of Takhisis and doing some world hoping with some silver-ribbon-noodle-people that hang out on magic trees.

I just want to play a kender spellthief

Dude, the Disks of Mishikal being somewhat inspired by Mormon-esque mythography does not make the stories 'religious propaganda', and the time period the books came out in featured a great deal of Native American wank in fantasy fiction. You can take off the tinfoil fedora.

Holy fuck does this thread make me feel old

I like how this constantly states that kender take interesting junk and not valuables. Reading this furthers my belief that 3.0 was a cancer in D&D.

>the Mormon LOTR
I have said many times that the Time of the Dragon supplement and the Taladas continent it's set on are really cool, but everyone has forgotten that ever existed

I vaguely remember reading a serie of books about some ancient humans, where one human became friend with a chromatic dragon and the main character learned how to work some metal (or was it stone?).
I thought it was pretty interesting since it was an unusual era for fantasy books to my knowledge.
Then he died at the third book and I never touched it again.
Also the name and logo is pretty cool.
That's about all I can say about it and it was years ago.

>Time of the Dragon supplement and the Taladas continent it's set on are really cool
NOBODY CARES
O
B
O
D
Y

C
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S

The setting exists because somebody tried to make an interactive version of 'Lord of the Rings'. Anything else done with the world could (and should) have been done anywhere else.

That is really sweet art.

>never even read it but I'll shit on it anyway
classic Veeky Forums response

Actually imo Taladas is Dragonlance done right; Hickman & Weis had some great ideas but needed a third party to properly moderate things. The Kender of Taladas, for example, work considerably better than their much-maligned Ansalon counterparts.

That's Robin Wood, she mainly did the Dragonriders of Pern books and very rarely did D&D stuff, so it's something of a novelty for that reason.

>Evil Priest fights Cow Romans
Sooooo amazing.
Dude, it's as boring as anything in the Realms. You want to try selling me on what I missed, I'm all ears.

>You want to try selling me on what I missed, I'm all ears.

You are not clearly not arguing from a position of good faith, and your preloaded resentment for Forgotten Realms reeks of bitter old grog, so I'll spare myself the exercise in futility. Feel free to have the last word if it assuages your neckbeard bitterness.

>Talks in the expected mode of Veeky Forums
>hurr durr you sound so bitter I don't have to do any arguing but namedropping
Dude, the guy two posts up from you, by claiming they got Kender right, is doing a better job of arguing your position.
You think I'm overly-bitter and not going to be fair; sure, fine, I think you're just dropping the extra, obscure supplements just to be contrarian.
If you want actual context, I owned the 'Castles' boxed set back in the day, and the 'Fortress Drungar' bit, the part set in Taladas, sucked. So that's what I'm working off of.

It sucks? IDK. The novels are good, if you're eleven and can't understand lotr.

Careful about mentioning Pern on the internet user, Anne McCaffrey might rise from the grave to deliver a Cease&Desist order.

...

Alright, this looks like as good a place as any to ask:
Can one of you oldfags PLEASE explain how classes and races worked in AD&D? Like, I get that you had to roll 3d6 in order. If you didn't roll well enough, to be, say, an elf or whatever, did that mean you just had to play a shitty human fighter?

Genuinely curious.

According to the rules, yes.
But, AD&D had lots of optional ways of rolling stats. 4d6 drop the lowest; roll 7 stats and pick the best 6; if your overall stats are too shit reroll the whole thing. The fact that there are an abundance of ways to roll stats in the official books proves that everyone cheesed the shit out of their stats in order to get what they wanted.

Isn't that the setting where the dragonriders fight alien fungi and have to secure hyperspace lanes?

Is there anything to talk about? Do you have anything to say at all?

Fuck that bitch's rotting corpse.

So how did that work with the stat bonuses?
If you rolled well enough to be an elf, you got another bonus on top of that?

how did dragonlance end? i was huge into it in my middleschool/highschool years, and when i stopped reading was 5th age, where the gods came back, then left after the chaos war, then some big fat dragons came and took over and it got real dumb. did it just die out?

It's like a prototype Warcraft, sure it's cool in a historical sense, but it's been outmodded by better settings that take the unique elements of it without going full retard.

Yep, you had to roll well enough to qualify for your race, but the requirements were generally pretty low. In the PHB the highest one was a Dwarf's Constitution being an 11 before modifications. Most were in the 6-8 range.

Yes. I saw it live, in-action, in a video. There was a Let's Play series of KoToR and as a joke, during the underwater walking sections of Manaan they were going to play AD&D to fill what would otherwise be dead air. Only one person rolled stats high enough to qualify for a non-human race and he was also the only one who could qualify for a class other than fighter or thief (it was wizard).

Apparently the idea is that stuff like elves or paladins are supposed to be really rare while human fighters and theives are everywhere and the way TSR decided to implement this wasn't to say just make paladins and elves rare in the game world, but it make it almost god damn impossible for players to be those things.

TSR/WotC killed Dragonlance when Dragons of Summer Flame was released. Then paraded its corpse around with the Fifth Age and War of Souls.

Let Dragonlance remain dead.

See wikipedia's synopsis of the novels:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance#Novels

>the only one who could qualify for a class other than fighter or thief (it was wizard).
All you need is a goddamn 9. What the fuck was wrong with their dice?

I personally consider dragons of summer flame (the chaos war) to be the best place to stop reading. It ends the setting in what I consider to be the best, and most fitting way for the setting, with humans finally learning to handle shit on their own, and not having to rely on the gods, but also the gods not interfering in everything they can stick their obnoxious fucking hands into. Everything after that (especially that absolute bullshit war of souls) only undoes the few and far between good parts of setting.

As somebody who has heard of the series, but knows absolutely nothing about it, what exactly did she do? Was she just hyper-protective of her IP or something?

Draconians > Dragonborn

They were pretty cool artifacts too.

The setting by which I mean the original trilogy and The Legend of Huma delivered on its core concept of "Putting the dragons in Dungeons & Dragons."

Nothing wrong with balance and neutrality if your opposing forces are solely Law and Chaos. It's when Good and Evil are introduced that messes everything up.

In the earlier days of the internet, She went around hitting up search engines and sending C&D's or lawsuits at anyone that came up. She was particularly ruthless with fanfic writers.

Pretty interesting how dragonborns turned out to be shit when they already had managed to create a decent race of dragonmen.

Dragonborn had a perfectly decent culture of their own, and in terms of artwork, were no more hideous than anything that the draconians had received in 2nd or 3rd edition.

This.

And even then people were coming up with there own dice rolling methods and ignoring the rules in this regard.

Best to not read Dragons of Summer Flame since it killed everything good about Dragonlance.

They gave you six to start with, anybody'd think making up your own was encouraged.

>time-travelling Kender
Who thought that was a good idea, and how do I get them killed?

Well, I'm sold.

I remember someone on Veeky Forums doing a nice mechanical writeup for 4e Kender to try to play up the parts that make them likable. A bonus to helping allies and being able to 1/encounter pull a consumable item out of their pockets as something they randomly picked up at some point rather than relying on the player pocketing stuff on-screen.

Raistlin is the tormented and edgy artist type they all want to fuck, while Cameron is Chad Thundercock but has a heart of gold instead of being a dick.

And Tanis inexplicably gets laid a lot.

Raistlin and cameron relation was fun as fuck.