Arnor survives

>Arnor survives.
>Gondor falls.

Would that be better or worse?

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Gondor was the buffer that kept eastern invaders from crossing the Anduin and reaching Eriador, Arnor with its geographical location, even at full strength, wouldn't have done the same thing

So I'd say worse

Hard to keep watch on Mordor from so far away.

Was not mordor a relatively young problem?

I would say worse. Rohan is still a buffer state in some areas, but it doesn't go far enough to the west and it's a bit low on defensible terrain and fortresses aside from Helms Deep. It's like saying "Central Europe will survive but the Byzantines will have to fall, don't worry, we still have the Balkan states and Hungary to shield us from the east."

Mordor was arguably a problem from the moment Gondor and Arnor were founded, as only a hundred years after that Sauron conquered Minas Ithil aka Minas Morgul, which was immediately followed by the War of the Last Alliance.

But yeah, the other anons are correct. Gondor was important than Arnor for keeping Mordor at bay, as Arnor would have been in a poor position to safeguard Rhovanion from Sauron. What Arnor did do, and its people kept doing long after its downfall, was keep the horros of Angmar at bay; thought it was a lesser threat compared to Barad-dûr.

>war important than
MORE IMPORTANT* obviously.

Are we assuming that Gondor falls at approximately the same time that Arnor would have? If so, Rohan never exists because it was formed by Gondor giving land to the Eotheod ~500 years after the fall of Arnor.

>What Arnor did do, and its people kept doing long after its downfall, was keep the horros of Angmar at bay; thought it was a lesser threat compared to Barad-dûr.
so why the fuck don't we ever hear about it

Because they failed. Angmar destroyed Arnor then went on to rape most of Eriador before the last of the Dunedain, along with the Wizards and the Elves of Rivendell, defeated them after they'd pillaged and raped the lands from the Misty Mountains to the Grey Havens.

Considerably worse. Arnor never had anywhere near the same level of population and power projection ability as the southern kingdom. A world in which there's an Arnor but no Gondor is a world in which Sauron easily overruns places like Rohan and the Anduin dales, and is probably marching on Eriador 500 years before Bilbo is born.

But why was Gondor so powerful? Was it the Black Numenoreans colonizing the River Anduin whereas Arnor was mostly Elf-land?

right, why didn't we ever hear about this nonsense, it sounds cool

>youtu.be/B-05d38IfKY
This isn’t considered canon because its from a vidy but the explanation is great about how the Witch-King raped Arnor to death.

By the end of the war of the last alliance, much of Arnor's military strength an population was diminished significantly, compounded the fact that Isildur and his brother decided to fuck off with a ton of people and establish Gondor during a time of relative peace, Arnor was just left to its own devices and forced to pick up the pieces essentially on its own.

>Beleriand survives
>the Age of Men is delayed indefinitely

Would that be better or worse?

MERP is set in that era of the struggle against Angmar.

Because it's ancient history by the time of LotR. The books emphasise that the Dúnedain (the remains of Arnor's population) are still defending the rest of Eriador from the evil thatstill pours out of Angmar even though the kingdom has long since been defeated. The Dúnedain, or Rangers of the North as they're known to common folk, believe that their wards are better off not knowing what's actually going on, letting them live in blissful ignorance. The Shire's a great example; the hobbits owe their peaceful existence almost entirely to the deeds of the Dúnedain, though they aren't aware of it, and the "rangers" would like to keep it that way.

Because it happened like 1200 years before the novels.

Just wait

Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?
How did we come to this?

Does Arnor not fall due to getting its shit back together and the lack of a witch king meaning no mass invasion of evil forces, mass devestation and plague.

It just kind of was. You only have 9 ships worth of people escaping Numenor, and while explicit numbers are not given, it's hard to believe that those 9 ships would have that many people. Nor do you really think that the King's Men colonies would fall under Elendil's banner.

It's more likely that almost from the start, while the ruling lines remained pure(ish), the Numenorians in exile were ruling over other men, and there were just more of them south of the White Mountains than there were in Arnor.

How many ships did the Elves use when they came over to Middle Earth?

Not really lad. Mordor's been a problem since the day smoke started billowin' outta the mountain.

What would be the fate of the Southern Fiefs?

Presumably domination by Sauron like in Umbar, Harad or Rhûn.

Most of them walked over the polar ice. I don't believe the number of ships seized at Aqualonde is ever given though.

In any case, there weren't all that many Noldor. The number of Sindar in Beleriand was always considerably bigger.

Imagination is in the hands of corporations now.
You want it fixed, start imagining things for yourself.

Im totally gonna write my own not roman empires any day now.

Well in the end it would be another Umbar.
Arnor could probably solve its population Problem with gondorim refugees and stalemate Sauron between Isengard and Helms Deep for some time.
But the sea would be dominated by the Kings Man. That wouldn't be Arnors problem thou, since the dont live by the sea mostly.
Lindor would be fucked, so the Elves couldn't run away to Valinor anymore and that may help against Sauron

Do the Falathrim count as Sindar?

You'd think the Dunedain would be able to get a lot more done if they had the open backing of the Shire, and the few other surviving settlements of Men in Eriador.

They're Teleri, but since they didn't stay behind to look for Thingol, and I don't think they had "official" contact with Melian, I'm pretty sure they count as their own thing.

Reckon they don't really need or want it. They trade with the Shire and Bree on occasion, but they realise that the feeling of safety is just as important as the fact, and so they let the peoples of Eriador be.

worse, Arnor is indifensible, and too far away to keep an eye on Mordor. The Fortresses and Outposts watching over the Dark Land would have fallen hundreds of years earlier, By the Time Saurons Forces reach Arnor, everything east of Isengard is already gone.

If Sauron and Saruman can join up forces, maybe get the third Maya, Durins Bane into the party, Arnor is fucking doomed, especially seeing how Saurons Leutenenat himself was enough to destroy that worthless Kingdom.

Whilst Arnor did get fucked up by Sauron's lieutenant, he was not the sole cause. The kingdom was at first weakened by a lot of its people going east to found Gondor, then politically by the splitting of the kingdom into smaller parts, something that never happened to Gondor. Combine that with the great plague and there really wasn't much left of the kingdom of Elendil.

It's in the goddamned appendixes.Read the Third Age timeline