So he's basically a chaos god at this point right? How else do you explain living saints?

It'd be more understandable if GW wasn't retconning and adjusting fluff every six months or so it seems. Concepts are dropped or edited often enough that it can be hard for someone to keep track.

>And yet, every single main rulebook ever, giving you the main, foundational fluff of the setting, says he's single handily keeping them from consuming the galaxy.

Wrong. What it says is that he is psychically blanketing humanity and guiding their psychic evolution which could be hijacked by Chaos and used to blow up the galaxy without hm around.

The Necron Pylons are the things that are keeping the galaxy afloat from sinking into the Warp. Recently, we saw the result of destruction of a set of them/

>Apparently he's gotten stronger since the Goulding Heresy because in 40k, he's keeping them at bay. That's why they need Abaddon to kill him, because, I believe one source specifically says he needs only to falter for a moment for Chaos to win. His physical body being whacked probably would cause him to falter for a moment.

Headcanon will not avail you. Remember that in the HH, a single daemon of Chaos was his match. Also it's stated that him coming close to the Chaos Gods would destroy him.

>Also incorrect,

The Golden Light of Terra is not made from the Emperor's power. It's made from the thousands of psykers being drained in the Astrowhat'sitsname. The Emperor merely guides it. It manifests in the Warp in the form of a pillar of fire shouting from Terra. It's blazing searing sword of light that incinerates and burns any Warp entity that comes in contact with it. The Hivemind had a brief encounter with in the short story.

Please quit being a dumbass and trying to pass headcanon as lore and then shitposting "SRZS business. Frankly, I find liars such as you to be worse than Hitler.

Talking about retconned lore is one thing but making up thing out of thin air is pure cancer.

Calm down Calgar, my Spiritual Liege.

Personally I think Carnac gets a bad rap. I think he's a genius. All good shitposts have a core of truth and his truth is the most controversial bits of new fluff. He knows fans of the old hate a lot of the new and he picks out the new he knows they hate most.
Add in some chociey and provactive words like "liar" and "headcanon" and an obsessesive omnipresence through the board, and you've got the ultimate shitposter. Fans of the old literally cant help themselves but engage him. As if his mind can be changed. As if whether or not he believes what he posts is even the point of his posts.
I don't think I've seen a shitposter manipulate a whole board as masterfully as Carnac does and I think he should be applauded for the endless hours of entertainment he's brought.

>So he's basically a chaos god

No. But he is a warp god. There are plenty of gods in the warp, chaos are only four of them. There's at least three eldar gods that are still alive, two ork gods and the tyranid hive mind. The Emperor is the only human god.

Except for the part where Chaos is the immaterium and the immaterium is Chaos.

This paragraph is probably familiar to you, it's the start of what is basically the opening crawl to the 40K universe.

>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Query: by the will of *which* gods?

A god perharps, but not a chaos god.

Wrong.

Fantasy heritage

Sort of. The realm of souls wasn't always a bizarre hellscape of negativity and aggression. You could work with it more or less safely, or rather the price of working with it was rather predictable.

It isn't lore breaking that the Emperor is able to carve out a little niche within the immaterium and channel humanities psychic power into minor miracles.

Citation?

Then why is that text still used to this day? Why didn't it get Squatted?

Not a chaos god, but definitely not anything near human anymore. Faith in the Emperor can literally produce miracles, and supposed manifestations of the Emperor's Will, the Legion of the Damned and Living Saints, are warp entities similar to daemons.
He's probably somewhere above the power of an eldar god, but he doesn't have near the power of a chaos god in the warp. He's still the biggest threat to them, but that's because they're never united and because he exits in the materium.

The eldar gods wouldn't exist if the immaterium was the same as the chaos realms.

Don't be an idiot.

The codexes are clear. Chaos and the Warp are one and the same. They are indivisible.

Jesus, here we go again with baseless nonsense.

I am strongly reminded of how in Warhammer Fantasy the dirty secret of the "good" Gods is that they're basically the same sort of entity and hail from the same realm as the Chaos gods, it's just that they put a more palatable face on it. (Tome of Salvation for WFRP2 had some nice details on this - and of course it's worth noting that the original Realms of Chaos books defined Chaos both for 40K and WFRP purposes in extremely similar terms.)

Carnac, please.

My theory is that he is the warp god of selflessness
> Sacrificed most of humanity to create a strong galaxy-wide empire
> Sacrificed himself for the good of humanity
> Accepts human sacrifices
> Is the god of people who sacrifice themselves for the good of those they care for and in his name, knowingly and willingly.
> There is no hope for themselves, and they do not need to trick anybody
> It is not about wrath, even when they express anger
> They are not afraid of the death and are not miserable in its face.
> They do not take pleasure in sacrificing themselves, nor do they lust for those they left behind.
> They do not do it out of spite
> They do it because they must. Selflessness.

That's a good one. My theory is that he's the warp god of fear, particularly of xenophobia.
>Created out of sheer pants-shitting panic by entire species' collective shamen
>Only accepts human worshippers, and teaches them to despise all other thinking entities
>Leads humanity into galactic conquest solely for purpose of destroying all nonhumans, and all humans who won't join up
>Comes up with convoluted plans (Primarchs, Golden Throne) to try and deal with fears once and for all, which keep backfiring
>Insists that their progeny will know no fear (only someone who is deeply afraid keeps talking about how unafraid they are)

Oh yeah, I forgot the
> Was born as an incarnation of all earthly demigods who committed suicide for humanity
part here Also, fear belongs to Nurgle, and Spite belongs to Khorn.

or maybe, just maybe, the god-emperor of mankind is the god of mankind

>Chaos and the Warp are one and the same

Today the Warp is chaotic, but it use to be very peaceful. The Warp is much, much older than the chaos gods. Three chaos gods were created during the Old Ones versus Necrontyr war. Slaanesh was created by the Eldar only twenty thousand years ago. Chaos are newbies compared to the Necron.

Carnac pls

Name me one warp deity that is not a god of emotion or not consumed/ "patronized" by one

Then what are Eldar gods?

inshallah brother

Ork gods are just the gods of the Ork. The Emperor is the human god.

Deities don't encompass emotions, but specific spheres where emotions are subsumed under.

Ork emotions are just indigestible for the big four because orks pretty much know no fear, too stupid for hope because it comes from despair, and cannot tell rage from pleasure. Ork gods are just the gods of ork emotions.

Emperor did Living Saints even before the Golden Throne. During the Heresy he summoned an army of Imperial heroes against the daemons, including ferrus

>During the Heresy he summoned an army of Imperial heroes against the daemons, including ferrus
...what
Could you elaborate?

he summoned an army of ghosts/angel-like spirits of many imperial heroes at the time. Among them was ferrus manus

They disappeared shortly after.

I don't think they were Living Saints, Ferrus never spoke and they seemed more like spirits than physical forms

Realm of Chaos = Warp =/= Chaos Itself

That's like saying that the Realms of Man, while inhabited by Men, are Mankind itself.

But what is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Don't forget the spirits and shit from Fenris which are word of god stated to be not Chaos related.

>chaos chaos chaos chaos this and chaos that.

Fucking new fags fucking the lore. Back in the day it was just a super god psyker but now a days everything has to be related to chaos because fucking nu males.

>fucking newfags

No, fuck GW and Black Library for nailing Chaos as pssh-nothin-personel-kid antagonist.

I suppose they mean chaos gods.
As far as I know, Emps struck a deal with them - they give him some of their power and he brings humanity into their arms. That's why you could say he rules by their will (or ruled, until they realized he just fucked with them)

someone has been reading warhammer 50k

Nah, no shitposter can be as consistent over so many years. The little sperg is legit mentally ill.

>The Emperor
>The Hive Mind
>Eldar Gods
>Ynnead
>Legion of the Damned
There are many things existing in the Warp that have nothing to do with Chaos.

Even Sanguinius is a Chaos God now.

There are many carnacs

No one can imitate that kind autism.

The Hive Mind isn't a warp entity. It operates similarly and casts a shadow within it, but as far as we know there's no actual warp interaction involved beyond that. Tyranids don't even travel by the warp.

The Emperor is not a warp entity. Even if had reached godhood, he still has a presence in realspace.

To be fair, if the Living Saints were actual Daemons, then they'd probably look a bit more like this. A bit more inhuman.

Hows a comprimise sound? We all admit the new lore says what carnac says, then we ignore it because it defeats the point of the setting and logically chaos should have already killed the emperor with its infinite belakors and drachnyens

...

So... is a Living Saint technically a "Daemon Prince" or at least the equivalent to one? This thread has just confused me more.

that was a good thread

Yeah, but which of the ork gods is for choppy things and which is for shooty things?

That’s a step too far IMO.

The Imperium clearly isn’t “good” in any objective sense. It’s Lawful Neutral in its best reading and Lawful Evil in its worst. And yea I get that mankind has likely failed the Emprah’s vision in his absence, but it’s not like pre-Heresy Imperium was all that great.

A more tone-appropriate reading is that he’s the god of selfishness or self-interest, which is what the Imperium largely is governed by (at least for the over-class of citizens.) It doesn’t hurt that this was a popular theme throughout British media in the late 20th century as they grappled with the fact that their colonial period was ending, and the Imperium’s xenophobic colonialism typifies the worst of their expansion.

Good thoughts though. If it weren’t 40k, that would be an interesting reading of the character.

Basically yes. There are plenty videos on youtube that explain it if you can't be assed to read up on this yourself.
Arch Warhammer for example makes quality stuff.

He's a Chaos God even though he wants to be a Necron.