Explain to my players that adult dragons are hyper intelligent megalomaniacs

>explain to my players that adult dragons are hyper intelligent megalomaniacs
>explain they have enormous territories they can only keep by fending off dragon rivals
>explain any dragon with a territory has learned how to defeat his fellow dragons and likely have a small society surrounding himself to keep what ever infrastructure he deems fit to fend off other dragons maintained
>explain that a dragon's chief concern is not mortals, as 99.9% of mortals can not pose anything close to a threat to an adult dragon
>explain that dragon's chief concern is other dragons, with most dragons existing in what amounts to a territorial cold war
>explain that the only way a dragon ever really deems it necessary to fight a mortal is if they deem that mortal as damaging to his defenses against other dragons

I don't know if it is miscommunication, but somehow the players are treating dragons in the setting dragons are a huge fixture in the setting as big dumb lizards. More than that, but they are treating them as if they should be solitary. Also for some reason they are acting as if dragons should be naked rather than wearing material equipment similar to mortals, merely sized up.

They're hitting the point they are getting angry because dragons either don't give a shit about them or respond in force, which because the players have made no plans forces them to retreat.

>>explain that dragon's chief concern is other dragons, with most dragons existing in what amounts to a territorial cold war
>>they are treating them as if they should be solitary
that should make them by default solitary (except maybe for nesting period, I'm not sure how your dragons reproduce)
Unless you mean that the wars are between dragon families rather than individual dragons.

your players are idiots. cant fix that

so why didn't you let them play as dragons?

A dragon is a beast, no more, no less. Mankind shall always stand above the beasts.

They are treating them as if there should be no one anywhere near them. Most dragons are alone except for perhaps a spouse, but they are treating them like they don't expect them to exist at the centers of tribes/cults/etc.

so you make an invincible enemy then complain when your players try to engage with centerpiece of your setting?

sounds like your retarded.

>My setting is about gods.
>Look how cool my gods are guys.
>They are like super powerful guys
>What do you mean you want to interact with the gods?
>Why would the gods want to interact with you
>Yeah, I know they are integral to the setting
>Yeah, I know the indirectly control everything and are behind all the evil plots
>Fight the gods? Are you mad?

Tell the players to stop applying what they think they already know about dragons from other games to yours.

They're supposed to fight and interact with them, but do it with any amount of forethought.

They aren't invincible, but my players are acting as if dragons should roll over and offer their soft belly to be stabbed at the drop of a hat. They're not strategizing or trying to think through anything a dragon could reasonable try and do.

Well, OP, you got your required Veeky Forums herp durp.

>infodump a bunch of shit
>"why dont my player care???"

Oh, yeah, powerful individual creature having minions / followers / cults of "lesser species" is perfectly normal.

Remind them of that intermittently.
Players forget.

If they just don't care, then they're idiots.

Have them talk with other mortals about their plans in regards to dragons, or hear the opinions of other mortals. Include frequent nods to how influential they are. Include stories of past dragon-politics ("Yeah, that war lasted 50 years between those two countries, it was because local dragon chiefs got pissed at each other over ownership of the river between the two"). Bonus points if players spend some time in a city or society, only to learn later the entire place is owned by and venerates one of these dragons (The winged deity they have markings of everywhere turns out not to be deity, etc. etc.).

Have the rest of the world reinforce the dragons' status, have NPCs act accordingly and treat the PCs as strange if they act differently.

Not OP, but this implies the players are engaging with, well, anyone except other players. In my experience, if a group cannot comprehend a major gimmick of the setting ("territorial dragon-gods with cults") after a session or two, they probably don't really roleplay beyond "I go to the quest board" and "I roll to bluff the guard."

Well you're sort of contradicting the archetypical associations people have with dragons.
Intelligent dragons are complete wank. Use giants if you want sorcerous superbeings.

Even if the party are completely anti-social, you can still drop hints. Overheard conversations (loud enough not to require players going out of their way to hear), lots of draconic imagery in areas directly controlled by dragons, etc. It's much easier if you have dialogue between NPCs and players to work with, but you can still make their influence clear with just what players see and hear while in settlements.

>They're hitting the point they are getting angry because dragons either don't give a shit about them or respond in force, which because the players have made no plans forces them to retreat.

How does one retreat from a massive magical flying beast?

I see dragons more often portrayed as highly intelligent than not.

>How does one retreat from a massive magical flying beast?
They haven't forced a dragon to intervene directly in affairs and instead have dealt with minions of a dragon. In the last instance it was a cult that served the dragon.

Intelligent egomaniacal dragons are the norm in popular media. See: Smaug.

>ctrl+f Shadowrun
>0 results
For starters, you shouldn't be playing Shadowrun with your group if they can't comprehend the setting. Sounds like you've got a group of mouthbreathers on your hands.

Nigger, where are you getting your archetypes? Because I feel as though Tolkien's talking dragons, and Forgotten Realms' talking dragons, and Ravenloft's talking dragons, and Greyhawk's talking dragons, and EVERYBODY'S FUCKING TALKING DRAGONS should count.

Sounds like your players are stuck in the Skyrim mindset where a superintelligent flying wizard with magic can easily be defeated if you have got a slightly larger than average rock between it and you. I'm afraid that there is no cure for that, no matter what you'll do they'll never be able to comprehend that dragons might fight intelligently, use whatever equipment available for them, or have lackeys around to do their bidding.

Literally never played in a campaign where the dragons can't talk. Really the only strange part of OP's description is the societies surrounding them and use of clothing/materials, and even that's understandable. I usually have societies of kobolds at least NEAR my dragons.

The only annoying thing is their view that 'mortals' aren't remotely a threat to them and that the only reason they'd worry about one is if they thought it'd weaken their defenses against other dragons. But honestly that kind of hubris and demeaning talk would just motivate me to stab them in the face.

Interestingly enough, I'm in a campaign now where the gods are just normal high-level PCs with immortality [of the, doesn't die unless killed, variety]. And the idea of huge dragons, sea serpents, etc isn't something they like fighting, usually taking at least 2-3 of them to take one down. The idea was kind of an "Olympians vs Typhon" or "Norse vs Fenris" thing, where the gods themselves would flee and take refuge in heaven against enormous primordial monsters.

>infodump
Pretty sure that's less than 300 words, user.

Sounds like you're doing way too much explaining.

Cut that shit out.

How will they know anything otherwise?

Fucking this. Like, for real. If you were going to make dragons such a big deal, why not have some fun with it and have the players play dragons themselves. Would have made for a much more enjoyable experience, I imagine.

depends on the setting

Talking does not necessarily denote intelligence.

Examples? Of what the players are doing, what they should be doing, and how they're supposed to reasonably get from Exhibit A to Exhibit B.

A lot of fairly common settings have dragons as large masterminds. All it means it that you need to be smart and treat them like a nobleman who can kick your ass

People play fantasy because they want to jump in to a generic setting without having to read shit.

You're making them read shit, breaching the point of fantasy RPG's appeal.

Why are the dragons tolerating these cults? If the only thing that motivates them is the competition with other dragons, as you say, then they should only let them live near them if they can help in that.

If anything, having a tribe outside your cave is a bad thing, because they might be spies for the other dragon.

Why would they care? I don't chase birds off my lawn just because they don't help me do the dishes.

Lol

>dragons are a huge fixture in the setting
Spotted the autist

Oh boy, the "enlightened" contrarians have come to post.

The cults are likely actively dedicated to the dragon. Statistically speaking there might even be some clerics or wizards in the cult who can cast spells on the dragon's behalf, freeing up its own resources; or perform tasks for the dragon that the dragon doesn't have time to do himself.

There's a reason why during the Cold War, the President of the USA or the Chairman of the Central Committee wasn't also a soldier and a spy. Each one of those is a full-time job.

Are you fucking high, or just so naturally contrarian that you spew this dumb shit by reflex?

Ever heard of minions, user?

I had a similar setting, dragons weren't to any extent key to the setting but they were powerful components of it, group finds dragon exploiting village for a constant stream of cattle, ask around and this is a problem for many of the surrounding villages as well, the group deduces it's a younger dragon still in its period of rapid growth. Decided to confront it with the backing of the crown. And use said backing to hire a trope of mercenaries. Tell your players to stop being bad.

It's niche fantasy that wanks dragons up into godhood because at some point somebody had a scaly fetish.
The primary recognizable story is of knights killing a mindless beast.

The average normalfag things dragons can talk and scheme. You’re retarded.

Reminds me of the last time one of my players tried HFY in a fantasy setting.

> dragon terrorizing local towns
> drop plot hints about retired dragonslayers that the party can seek out for help
> players instead decide to whip the townsfolk into a mob and go whoop some dragon ass up the mountain
> dragon wakes up, mob panics. Dumb wizard who thought this was a good idea says "Don't be afraid, its just a big lizard!"
> The dragon chuckles. "You poor, soft, stupid little thing. I have never been 'just' in my life."
> First breath weapon attack puts the wizard down to 6 hp, kills more than half the townsfolk outright, and fucks up two other party members too because everyone is crowded in this cave.

Players can be pretty stupid sometimes.

>My dragons are powerful beings that
>HURRRR YOUR PLAYING MAKE-BELIVE WRONG

You may claim St George and the dragon is the most recognisable story. I could claim Sigurd and Fafner is the root of things. But I'm not such a massive wanker that'll I'll just demand everyone take what I'm most familiar with as the default. Someone else may point to Tiamat and Marduk, a far cry from a mere beast.

Either way, as has been shown to you already the idea of sapient dragons is anything but niche within fantasy today (though of course they're not exclusively portrayed as such, see GoT for example, but the list of examples that can be provided for intelligent dragons is of considerable size). A different context may yield a different result there of course, but OP's set the context here, so that's the one we have to relate to.

>Players can be pretty stupid sometimes.
Assume that all players are stupid until proven otherwise. If players weren't stupid, they would be DMs instead.

>fafnir and nidhogg, the former of whom Smaug, the most influential dragon in the modern era, was based on, predate St George and the dragon
>both are intelligent
>the legend of St George and the dragon has variants including the dragon being intelligent enough to demand tribute, all the way to being intelligent enough for St George to convert it
Is this the part where you tell everyone you were just pretending to be retarded?

Have you ever heard of "Show don't tell"?

>dm makes setting with big powerful dragons
>gets mad when players make combat monsters and kill said dragon in one or two rounds
Legit had a dm flip his fucking table because he told us to bring in 20th level characters, anything goes, we're gonna be saving the world from a dragon apocalypse.
I brought in a hulking hurler goliath who could hit for over twenty thousand damage in a single blow.