If a Lich is damned to the lower planes if his phylactery is destroyed...

Your liches are little bitches then.

Becoming a lich is like the dumbest fucking way to obtain immortality in D&D and always will be as long as epic level spells let you do retarded shit.

There's the well documented demi-plane-clone-copy method that is literally impossible for even gods and planar beings to interfere with, but even without cheese there's simply better ways to become immortal.

>>polymorph yourself into a species that naturally lives forever
>>take one of the billion templates or splat traits that has immortality as a side effect
>>become an Outsider
By the time you're able to create a phylactery you have access to better self preservation spells that don't require you to lose your penis.

>don't require you to lose your penis.
Or your ability to enjoy eating, sleeping or actually progressing as a person and learning things.
The thing about lichhood is that its meant to be the misguided attempt at continuing your work, to avoid death so that you can keep on. Forgetting the price out of fear that you aren't eternal.

Its not even actual immortality, sicne you can still die and your power wanes over the centuries. Its like calling not eating radioactive waste immortality.

liches can learn new spells and become stronger. they can even become a demilich or god. most liches become more and more dangerous as the ages pass.

Aren't epic level spells pretty much confined to the trashheap that's 3.0's epic rules? It's odd to assume that every version of D&D runs under that logic.

Most of the species/traits/creature-types which don't die of old age still die when they're stabbed to death. The phylactery additionally acts as some manner of defense against getting smashed by adventurers, while the Native Outsider just poofs. Vampire arguably does this better, with the gaseous form into coffin to regenerate, but has a heap of its own weaknesses.

Lich gives way more than it loses. In addition to the basic "don't die of old age, and get a backup life in case of being killed by harm," you get all the conveniences of the Undead creature type (Don't eat/drink/breathe, immune to poison/disease/mind-affecting/cold/elec/anything requiring a Fort save. All your mental stats go up, you get DR, natural armor, huge bonuses to some nice skills, a fear aura, paralyzing touch... It's a pretty fantastic package.

The only real downsides are:
-Gotta be evil.
-Can't be Raised/Resurrected, need to rely on your Phylactery to bring you back. You need a really solid backup plan to protect you while regenerating.
-Can be turned. At least you have turn-resistance?
-Not healed by positive energy. Eh, no big. There's mirrored negative energy spells to heal you.
-You look scary and got no penis. Polymorph spells are a thing.

I think people who have heard of the lich in Ravenloft, who was cursed to never learn any new magic, mistakenly think that all liches can't learn new magic.

A lich in the Lower Planes is the equivalent of a low-level office worker. How many low-level office workers do you see running the planet?

Nope, it's older than that. Goes back to the OD&D lich.

>Once the lich is back in his own body he will have the spells he had in life and never has to read/pray for them again. In fact, he *can not*, except once to "fill up" his spell levels. As a lich, he can *never* gain levels, use scrolls, or use magic items that require the touch of a living being.

That's Azalin, High Elf Lich king who fucked his son over and the Dark Powers of Ravenloft fucked him in permanent level 18 mode.

Basically
>You can never gain levels
>every time your are destroyed, you lose a level
>when you go below level 10, you're destroyed for good
Christ that's a shitty deal. Was the OD&D vampire just as bad of an option?

But props for describing the ritual and process for becoming a lich - I might use that process and the potion ingredients if one of my players ever asks what they have to do to be a lich.

Whatever you're talking about it sure isn't D&D

It also explains why you can't just use a grain of sand on the other side of the world as a phylactery.

Lich-hood is for the most autistically devoted mages. You don't need to sleep, eat, get tired, feel living emotion, or anything that comes between you and working on the only thing that matters, Arcane power. That also comes with you becoming one of the hardest things to permanently destroy around and a whole lot of immunities and advantages.

Vecna was a lich first and he became the biggest threat ever, spitting in the lady of pain's face and busting out of ravenloft like it was a petting zoo.

That got retconned loooong ago

Yes, because all the people whined that necromancy was too weak.

Now necromancy is the school which just can do almsot darned everything and still be played as the misunderstood yet evil underdog.

>spitting in the lady of pain's face and busting out of ravenloft like it was a petting zoo
Vecna was able to do that due to being a demigod. As a lich, he was a run of the mill evil tyrant, ruling over an empire on the material plane until he was betrayed by his own lieutenant, just like any other random bad guy.

Why not just construct a wish spell-trap to automatically resurrect you every week?

Why not just live vicariously through automatons?

It's Fat Fuck Orcus, everything he says is poison, just ignore him.

>damned to the lower planes if his phylactery is destroyed
Who the fuck gave you that idea? It's firelichood, complete oblivion and if you're lucky- the Abyss as larvae.
>Have been multiple instances of PCs conquering layers that are unclaimed or just taking a Demon Lords place because they were unlucky enough to be a tiefling or fiendish offspring and got credit for the kill
That's some heavily Warcraft inspired shit there- and in review, evil outsiders make up the majority of entities offering Lichdom- though at the price of extortion prior to transformation, or using their resources to bind ones own phylactery to themselves, enslaving you- and people tend to forget Lichdom ensures an immediate repraisal from an inevitable.
That's the OD&D-2e-cucked-4e-5e rewrites.
1.
Good Lich, Archlich, Baelnorm
2.
>Can't be raised/Resurrected
Shame resurrection spells outside of the clerical norm exist, one for outsiders and one for undead.
3.
See Good Liches- some actually cannot be turned
4.
It's presumed offspring are stillborn, carrying a number of features found on a taint, vile darkness and the 2e necromancers handbook table- or as is shown in lore are abominations like the offspring of Azalin rex in his experiments
He's probably mixed the wires a little.
>Vecna was a lich first
No- earliest Lich confirmation is only briefly mention by Van Richten- still a mystery.
Kas was a unique variant vampire who was combat orientated- but was the very definition of derail campaign CE, Vecna showed a moment of weakness- Kas took it literally for the lulz and nothing else.

One should note that back in Throne of Bloodstone, Orcus had a city of Liches planning to overthrow him. If you actually fucking kill all of them, and loot the city- you find the hand and Eye of Vecna.

The Abyss is the ultimate TPK zone, next to the pre 4e Far Realm.

Though technically Greyhawk and FR are connected to earth, as in literally many of the cultures on the planes are literally handpicked from our planet at various points in history because X elves wanted a slave race to they opened a portal- Black Egyptians for example are a thing there. Hahaha oh god how can you fuck that one up so bad?

So- the innate possibility of the first lich- Technically being none other than Koschei the Immortal is high- as we also have Gothic Earth. Richten hints Orcus made the state and distributed it to fuck people over- Vecna might be the oldest Lich on record because he was around for those pre-deity dragon things- but beyond that it's intentionally a mystery.
There's some crap about trauma, spiritual damage, and slowly slipping out of the world of the living that'd come with the territory here.

To note- this doesn't take into account how the fuck time itself is working between two entirely different material planes, or the fact that Vecna didn't turn himself into a Lich right away- but did it around the time he was fucking those nobles over because reasons, then killed all of their citizens and let them live- in lore, it's a debatable subject that he was in some displaced era about around Suel and the other place had just fallen/pre-fall, but really close/missing period of history intentionally erased because meta and Gods having the ability to actually media blackout names, and historical events- something they do to perma-kill rivals (See Orcus/Tennebrous)

What kind of creature has a skull like that?

Also, if a Lich became the master of a Layer of the Abyss, that's reason enough to justify swapping out it's base Template for a Lichfiend one and then applying the rulings of the Demonomicon of Iggwilv's comments on building a Demon Lord/template

Pre-DL-hood would bring features similar to the sign of the smoking eye.

It's easier to just make a demiplane, become a demilich and condition the plane into being Abyss-tier using the rules for weather, arcane weather effects and other features of Demiplane creation and management- similar to how Eltab did it's Terraforming with it's pockets on the material plane.

The lady of pain has shredded greater gods like tissue paper. Vecna got away with it because he's just so damn good at magic and finding loopholes in the foundations of reality.

Someone who watches rick and morty