/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>most imbalanced combat ability in the game
>fine
>inb4 clans dont need to be balanced
>its ok for torries to outclass gangrels because they totally are combat characters

Its fine in v20 tho
Honestly a gangrel with claws is just gonna wreck 99% of the shit out there

Mage the Awakening was my first crpg. The ST was still fairly new to NWoD and didn't really know any better. He and his wife were masquerade fags and had no idea how bullshit mage can be. I fucking loved the whole Gnostic Wizard shit but after the first few sessions mage was barred from their table. I still have trouble finding people who will let me play mage. :(

No.
>tory gets any weapon
>high combat ability + celerity 2

Beats gangrel with animalism 2 every time. That said vampire combat doesnt even have initiative and combat is clunk af so most of it needs a big revision anyways

The problem with a post_Industrial Impergium is
a. The huge human population and the quality of human's weaponry means destroying human civilization would be a pyrrhic victory at best, since the Garou would certainly be wiped out and the humans would do it all over again without the possibility of a future Impergium, and
b. The death and destruction involved in wiping out 99% of the human population (which a modern Impergium would require) would feed the Wyrm enough to basically do its job for it.
HOWEVER, if the Garou undertook a second Impergium shortly before the Industrial Revolution, a large number of people and Garou would perish but both populations would recover and grow over the next few millennia until it was time for Impergium part 3.

Celerity was only strong in Masquerade with a handful of hard-counters to use against it.

In Requiem it's only good in 1v1 situations or acting first.

cool

the impergium was a mistake tho
werewolves are retards

Also, in my WoD, the Bronze Age Collapse was a mini-Impergium led by werewolves who would later become the Red Talons and Get of Fenris, opposed by the tribes who would later be called the Children of Gaia, Bone Gnawers, Glass Walkers, Silent Striders, and Black Furies. The pro-Impergium faction eventually gave up but not before they'd totally wrecked the Mediterranean.

t. Virgin of Gaia
The Chad Talons were right

>Dream Maker magics them away.

Doesn't feed the Wyrm. Desperate Red Talons are totally capable of doing this.

Which splat has the lowest IQs

>ayo we wuz wolves and shit, fuck the humans
>ahhhh no mr human don't hit me with the silver

Werewolves
They take pride in it, too

How would humans having silver weaponry back then even help against a Garou. Vampire elders with silver melee weaponry can barely take on a single Garou.

>werewolves actually believe this
hahahaha

What's the shittiest clan and why is it Brujah?

>In Requiem it's only good in 1v1 situations

Wat.

Celerity is the go-to discipline for antagonists that you want to solo the PCoterie, because it allows the villain to get multiple actions per turn, and those actions can interrupt and stop whatever the PCs want to do on their turn, making it possible for the ST to shut down choice moves.

>not malk

Malks in revised were somewhat better (no more goofy or Fae shit, just mental illness in all its stark horror)

Yup.
Multiple turns is gamebreaking lets just agree on that

>Splat designed for politicking and taking over small businesses
vs
>Splat designed for killing godlike paranormal entities on a daily basis
When will vampfags ever learn?

>because it allows the villain to get multiple actions per turn

>"However, the vampire is still limited to one instant action. She cannot use Celerity to make two attacks, or an attack followed by another instant action. Likewise she cannot move further in a single turn than her Speed would allow"

It always made me laugh when the Werewolf books used to say that garou were often a match for elder vampires. Every other book ignored it, and in terms of stats, there were like three splats including vampires that were far more OP.

>werewolves don't even read their own books
go read the silver record, watch entire packs get BTFO

Which is why Celerity functions differently in Requiem.

>red talons eat humans cause they wanna be tough guys grr
>end up wiping out all the wolves in the world literally RETARD tier lmao

>whoops look like we dumped toxic sewage all over your reserve! Sorry about that ;^)
When will yiffs ever learn

>V20 says Elders keep a wide berth from Lupines.
>1999

>it's in a previous edition so it doesn't count :')
you know this isnt a video game, right?

to be honest I never read anything about the setting in Tokyo, or if I did there's a black hole in my memory where the information used to be

>Celerity
>gamebreaking

>friction curse
>laughing hermetic

it's also mentioned in dark eras that three cabals of mages were torn apart by werewolves while trying to reach father wolf (and this was in the mage section, not the werewolf section)

Elders stay away from any fight, period
Doesn't mean they couldnt BTFO an angry pupper

>what are new editions.
>what is comparing statblocks
Why do vampfags get so butthurt about this? It's a well established fact anything that isn't a Methuselah is going to get creamed by any Garou.

Giving someone space is not the same as not being able to kill him. Sure I will go around killing woofs just to have some sabbat fuckers get me when I'm weakened. Nice going there Mithras

Must have been sucker mages. Or overrun.

>why are vamps so butthurt
>he says, desperately holding back tears

You really think there are no short actions that can interrupt people?

Required; ACKCHYUALLY WITH THE RIGHT SPHERES ARE 3 DAYS PREP TIME MY MAGE WOULD WIN ANY FIGHT AGAINST ALL OF YOU.

>misses the point entirely

>accidentally catching and spreading some prion is retard-tier
>not all the shit the other tribes do to fall
Including
>nuking a city because of police brutality
>taking on some impossible task to prove your tribe has the biggest dick
>literally making a deal with the Wyrm
The ONLY way the writers could cuck the Talons was with a pathogen lel

>Theurge summons a spirit with Cleanse Blight
>Sept easily finds local Vampire clans with Sense Wyrm
>Appear out of mirrors enmasse
>Kills them
oops ;3
>why can't my Speech:The Game splat defeat DnD on steroids?
the absolute state of Leeches.

Nigga I can build a neonate Gangrel that will destroy your average garou in one round of combat.

There are elders that have literally killed and eaten multiple packs after waking up, like that viking asshole from the clanbooks.

this isn't videogames
old editions don't become irrelevant
besides, like others have said, werewolves are always played up but combat oriented elders are probably gonna btfo a werewolf

>nuking a city because of police brutality
Wat

>Gets provided an example of a vampire easily destroying an entire pack
>refuses to read it because it was made too long ago
>instead just continues shitposting
i wanna say im dissapointed but this is actually pretty intelligent for the average werewolf player

mage > werewolf > vampire >>> hunter

In the Apocalypse book there are example scenarios about how each of the tribes could fall to the Wyrm
The Wendigo scenario is that a dozen Native protesters are shot and killed by police so the Wendigo hijack a nuclear submarine and destroy Buffalo, New York
Whereas in the Red Talon scenario the Talons increasingly prey on humans and accidentally catch what is basically Mad Human Disease, which they give to their wolf kinfolk, destroying the global wolf population

sorcerer > all

I still remember when a huge Apocalypse fanboy made the claim that any werewolf pack can kill the strongest Methuselah easily. We math'd it since we were all there.

Methuselah killed the entire pack in one round. Didn't even take damage.

but sorcerers are virgin mages and noticeably less powerful

So do Wendigo win "Moon Moons award for special needs woofs" or did someone fuck up more then they did?

so you're telling me ALL the tribes are retarded? i already knew, thanks

You should do the math and find out who wins 'Archmage vs Methuselah'

Archmage

Archamage>Metuselah>angry pupper

Because their golden age brought down by conniving outsider jealousy was them being fingerpuppets for Baali.

whoa there buddy, that's a slight on Moon Moon's good name and I find it wholly offensive on his behalf

wrong
mages are the virgins
sorcerers go round town getting that sweet sweet paradox free ass

Why? We all know the archmage wins.

We only math'd this scenario because the dude was so adamant that any pack could win.

Sorry

>aroo?

>bork

Wendigo's probably the dumbest. Other contenders are the Black Furies (who decide to start a male-only Impergium) and the Glass Walkers (who straight up join Pentex).

>tfw you know someones gearing up to make a huge rage post cause someone insulted his splat

>"andsh for my NEKKTSH reflexive ackshun..."

I thought the Glass Walker's made sense. Cockroach is a survivor first and foremost. If he thinks his chances are better with the wyrm, he'd hop over immediatly

>yiff

I can totally believe this. He has page numbers, citations and shitposts prepered in advance.
Sadly this is the world we live in and this are the hands we are given

>werewolves slow down and stop to watch the remove-the-game-cart twitching seizure this vampire is having

>"See, all my reflexive actions stopped you all easily! Celerity is so broken!"

This. Path of Hellfire, baby!

Roast a Mage with spells he can't use because reality doesn't like him.

>superior vampire combat

youtu.be/SP5c_MEs9mo

Is this how Vampire: bloodlines worked before it was patched?

Is this how I Seer of the throne?
youtube.com/watch?v=BKQ6nINAeq8

Iirc there's a tribe pulling a White Howler and literally throwing themselves into Malfeas. Silver Fangs or Get of Fenris, I think.

>...What kind of effect do you think a mass scale zombie outbreak would have on the WoD? Both new and old? Would the Masquerade break? How would you run the various factions' responses and the aftermath?

>>Mages
>Consensus gets blown the fuck out. Reality starts failing. Way bigger issues than zombies pop up.

What exctly does that entail for the consensus? Necromancy stuff becomes more beliavble in general?

>given irrelevant example of an irrelevant book made nearly 20 years ago.
>it takes a min-maxed neonate to kill the lowliest of Garou
>The only way this happens is if the Neonate has a literal Nuke.
>Old editions don't become irrelevant.
>What are NEW editions.
>What are erratas

This is almost as bad the magefag in the previous thread getting butthurt about celerity.

Actually got into other WW lines first and found out about WoD by looking into the company as a whole

I guess that means M20 is now the definitive mage book, huh?

I made that post
Well, when the dead are rising from their graves and devouring the living, people are going to be more inclined to believe in the supernatural. That means that the consensus of "magic isn't real" is going to change to "some magic is real"

>calling everyone butthurt
>only one freaking out is him
lol

>you are celerity interrupted by the chair

>the toreador celerity interrupts the telenuke in order to kiss his ass goodbye first

lol tho

>it doesn't count because i don't like it :'(

>vampfags sperging about min-maxing a character to beat a lowly Garou
>vampfags sperging about three paragraphs in an 18 year old book.
and yet I'm the butthurt one. Really makes you stink.

>it takes a min-maxed neonate to kill the lowliest of Garou

A relatively unoptimized Gangrel neonate can definitely kill werewolves.

I can't believe you're so mad about this. Garou supremacy only ever existed in the wankiest Werewolf books, everywhere else they were dangerous but not even close to "the weakest of them kill elder vampires solo" tier.

>people posting facts that i dont like is sperging
>books i dont like dont count
holy shit, werewolf was a mistake

called it in

It actually raises their power level a noticeable amount compared to revised.

Paradox hurts less, and you need less successes for multiaspect spells (it does give the rules for how that worked in revised).

M20 has flaws*, but I don't think the casting part was that big of one.

*
the book says to "respect players boundries and dont make them uncomfortable", but opens fiction of the book has"FATHERS THRUSTING CAWK"

how do you do it?
we want to know

Does it involve celerity?

>you lived long enough to see m20 get defended
it's time to shut this board down