Space Marine Librarians

So I'm a 40k newfag who's just gotten started with reading the Horus Heresy series. I started with Horus Rising and False Gods but the Sons of Horus are kind of boring so I started reading A Thousand Sons as it was highly recommended. Anyway I'm reading through it now and can someone explain the Council of Nikaea to me please?

>“I see now I have allowed my sons to delve too profoundly into matters I should never have permitted them to know even existed. Let it be known that no one shall suffer censure, for this conclave is to serve Unity, not discord. But no more shall the threat of sorcery be allowed to taint the warriors of the Astartes. Henceforth, it is my will that no Legion will maintain a Librarius department. All its warriors and instructors must be returned to the battle companies and never again employ any psychic powers.”

>Gasps of astonishment spread through the amphitheatre, and Ahriman felt his skin chill at the absolute nature of the Emperor’s pronouncement. After everything that had been said, he couldn’t believe the judgement had gone against them.

>The Emperor wasn’t finished, and thunder rolled in his voice.

>“Woe betide he who ignores my warning or breaks faith with me. He shall be my enemy, and I will visit such destruction upon him and all his followers that, until the end of all things, he shall rue the day he turned from my light.”

Above is the Emperor's edict yet I know that all Space Marine chapters use psykers? Shouldn't that be heretical as fuck in 40k? The Emps doesn't leave much wiggle room and I'm guessing that's what gets the TSons killed. So if the Emperor was happy to kill one legion for using psykers why do people think they can get away with it in 40k?

Nikaea was before the Heresy. Psykers are needed to fight warp xenos, so everybody just ignored it when chaos attacked. The Emperor stopped enforcing it by then. By 40k, everybody forgot that it even existed, except the Black Templars.

>Nikaea was before the Heresy.
Exactly so everyone should have been on the same page way before 40k?

>Psykers are needed to fight warp xenos, so everybody just ignored it when chaos attacked.
Doesn't this just mean that Magnus was right in the end then? Also if you're saying everyone just ignored it doesn't that make them Emperor seems a little impotent?

>Doesn't this just mean that Magnus was right in the end then?

Yes.

>Emperor seems a little impotent?

The Emperor was dumb. The biggest mistake the Emperor made was having no plan whatsoever to fight Chaos corruption. What the hell was he thinking? He had no Inquisitors, no Grey Knights or any special police force to fight chaos. He didn't even tell his primarchs about the horror. No plan, no backup plan, he just buried his head in the sand. What exactly did the Emperor expect would happen?

Yes, most astartes decided to abandon the Emperor's orders to follow Guilliman's(and their own primarchs) edicts.

>Doesn't this just mean that Magnus was right in the end then?

Nope. The White Scars were right.

The novel Scars go into detail about this. Essentially, the Kahn helped build the Librarius alongside Magnus and iirc Sanguinus. The Kahn and Magnus were on the same page regarding psychic powers being necessary to defend the Imperium, however where they deferred is that the Khan believed in harsh, well-defined limits on how far down the rabit hole a Payker can go- whereas Magnus is so against the regulation of psychic ability that he initially didnt even want a Librarius because he disliked the idea of psykers being beholden to rules and structure.

In the end the 1ksons' hubris regarding the warp proved to be their undoing, while the White Scars and Spece Wolves' heavily regulated brand of Psyker training went on to become the model that all of the codex chapters adhere to.

>He didn't even tell his primarchs about the horror.
He sort of did. Horus talked about 'xenos in the warp' that they were meant to destroy.

>Yes.
Fells bad man. I already like Magnus for attempting to stop Horus from falling. Seems that he was the only one who had he shit together at this point.

Space wolves aren't really psykers. They take their power from Fenris itself, not the warp

>whereas Magnus is so against the regulation of psychic ability that he initially didnt even want a Librarius because he disliked the idea of psykers being beholden to rules and structure.
That's not what is stated in A Thousand Sons.

Besides the Space Wolves are arguing against psykers, all psykers. So to be honest I dont really believe you.

>Above is the Emperor's edict yet I know that all Space Marine chapters use psykers?
Well you see, in the old fluff, the Emperor banned sorcery, dealing with Daemons to obtain psychic-like powers and other benefits, but not psykers, and that was law into the present day.
But in current canon, by BL, the Emperor's word (who also declared that Land Raiders can only be used by Space Marines because Horus' legions took control of the supply lines) is indisputable concerning tanks and their supply lines, but should be countermanded regarding humans whose heads might explode into literal daemons.
Doesn't make much sense, well neither does the series you're reading.

Yes, because the heavily biased wolves are a very trustworthy source.

Yeah that's what you discover as you keep reading: the only two patriarchs that were total bros were Magnus and Vulkan because they were the most altruistic ones who didn't have a tendency to bring absolute dipshits

>That's not what is stated in A Thousand Sons.

Am I supposed to care? ATS doesn't go into detail about the origins of the Librarius like Scars does and its also fluff.

>Besides the Space Wolves are arguing against psykers, all psykers.

Lol, they are not. Go re-read the book.

*and its also older fluff

The furries did hated any kind of psyker.

The short story Howl of the Hearthworld shows Space Wolf rune priests lying to an agent of Malcador about using his powers because they were banned at Nikea too. The Yiffs weren’t given an exception.

>Am I supposed to care?
I'm telling you what you said is wrong because I just read it. Magnus is arguing for the librarian program. You're wrong. Wrong about the Wolves too. Maybe take your own advice.

So what the explanation? Fenris has its own World Spirit? Or something stupid like sorcery but good?

Dont listen to the retards mate. Rune Priests are psykers.

>The rune-casting psykers of Logan’s Great Company, gathered under Njal Stormcaller, did not despair. They sent bolts of psychic lightning, ghostly tempests, and blizzards of razored ice-knives that flayed to the bone the Tzaangors cavorting around their master’s feet. Yet none of their runic witchery even touched the Crimson King. If anything, Magnus seemed larger and more powerful than before the first salvo had been fired.
>The rune-casting psykers
From Wrath of Magnus so its not like it's old fluff. SW fans just expect everything about their legion to be unique or rule breaking because they are designed to attract 12 year olds.

Aye, Rune Priests are regular ol psykers.

If the Emperor wanted to get rid of the Warp, he should have just rounded up as many blanks as possible and breeded them to absurd numbers.

The Space Wolves BELIEVE their powers come from Fenris. And there is evidence that their fervent animistic belief HAS resulted in a sort of Fenrisian world spirit warp entity.

But Rune Priests are pyskers, like anyone else, despite what the Wolves believe. The only thing that makes them "different" is their use of Runes, a mechanism used by the Eldar as well, albeit far more primitive than theirs

He did. Sisters of Silence.

They do have a world spirit

Weren't a lot of the Sisters of Silence implied to be increasingly emotionless and lacking of will as time went on due to the Pariah Gene doing some weird shit?

The Sisters of Silence were more like just the remnants of whatever was left after the Imperium shat itself at the discovery of so many Blanks.

The proto-inquisition was already working on developing actual Blank weaponry and possibly even a full Blank army after the Black Ships had amassed thousands of them, but the shadow in the warp they created disrupting the Astronomican and civilian psykers caused the Imperium to call for their banning. The Emperor had to step in and shut down the program.

Imagine if it had succeeded though. An army of reality enforcing people.

If the Emperors Webway project had succeeded, they could have done it, having no more need for the Astronomicon

Without warp there's no Imperium. The Emperor actualy wanted to make humans a psych species, though it's never explained how he would do it

>Without warp there's no Imperium
Only because the Imperium had, since its conception, been concieved in using the Warp.

I'm not entirely sure what the fluff is on Warp Drives and Navigators, whether they showed up before or after the collapse of humanity's golden age. If they showed up after, how did humans achieve a vast interstellar presence before that?

Nonetheless the Tau and their Gravitic drives are proof that in hindsight an empire was entirely possible without the use of the Warp.

Don't quote me on that because i'm not fully sure but the navigator gene was created on the dark age of technology i think.

>Nonetheless the Tau and their Gravitic drives are proof that in hindsight an empire was entirely possible without the use of the Warp.

Friendly reminder that the Tau Empire is basically the size of Delaware in the greater scheme of the Imperium.

>how did humans achieve a vast interstellar presence before that?
The navigators are a relic from the dark age.
>Nonetheless the Tau and their Gravitic drives are proof that in hindsight an empire was entirely possible without the use of the Warp.
The tau are a insignificant part of the galaxy. The Imperium is way to big to be sustained without warp travel.

Reminder that Nikara was just a thinly veiled excuse for russ and morty to publicly attack and besmirch magnus. Emps had better things to do but the above mentioned and their human minions had been crying about it for a LONG time at this point

Well isn't their history something like 6-10k years old? humanity had all of at least 42,000 years.

What proof is there that the Tau's ships and communication systems wouldn't work on a larger scale?

The fact that the Tau are constantly struggling with their slip drives and communication systems and trying to improve them?

Time and evolution. Everything he did was a delaying tatic. Shielding the species until mankind had reached something approaching his level. Because big daddy E is just the endgame of man achieved through cheats. So he wanted to conquer the stars, starve the warp and bypass its perils until we reached a point where none of that could hurt us

It's slower.

Its not as though Warp travel itself is a perfect system either or a breeze to manage.

So then humanity could be mass harvested by the Necrons for all those Pariah Warriors? Because that's pretty much why Blanks exist, thanks to Necrons engineering it.

It's not, but FTL is beyond mankind and seems like it's always been that way. I'm not sure how dark age ships did anything or how old the geller field is but warp travel has always been the only solution to the size of space and the nightmares, paranoia and occasional mind-fucking temporal nonsense is just something we have to deal with

Being a blank doesn't make you any more or less susceptible to Necrons, and humanity outnumbers necrons anyway.

Necrons can't even make anymore necrons. Blank humans can still reproduce.

Necrons don’t have pariahs anymore. That’s oldcron lore.

You misunderstood me. Necrons are harvesting Blank and Pariah humans to turn them into enslaved fleshy warriors to help starve/destroy the warp. Necrons were directly responsible for creating the Pariah Gene for this explicit purpose.

What is this 3rd edition? Get with the times grandpa pariahs havent' existed in the fluff for ages now.

>A humanity of mostly blanks
>ALL psykers and other warp sensitives are pitied and relegated to second-class status where they clearly belong
>These wretches and mutants are only used when necessary and easily reigned back in if they get uppity
This is the clearly superior path for humanity.

Go back a step further, back when humanity was only on one planet.

>Turn as many humans on earth or everyone into Blanks
>Develop the DAoT humanity, if at a slower pace due to gravitic drive I'd like ot imagine even if it was much slower, it was still serviceable
>STC's and Iron Men never get corrupted in humanities presence. Endless legion of robotic terminators to do all your fighting who will never betray you
>Eldar won't go near you because a race of blanks is their bane. Ork tech fails catastrophically as their WAAAGH powers stops working. Tyranids might never take notice of the galaxy without an Astronomican or be delayed in invading humanity
>The spread and growth of human blanks stifles the birth of Slaanesh, possibly even preventing it. in the very least Chaos is neutered without CSM and especially by there being an army of Blanks

The key thing here is figuring out non warp based FTL. I'd like to imagine it might still be possible if the Emperor took things in hand in the DAoT rather than the Age of Strife, and diverted the genius of a fully functional mars to building a webway, unless Blanks also disrupt the webway.

>The key thing here is figuring out non warp based FTL
You don't even need non-warp based FTL. Blanks are more than capable of traveling in the warp and hell, maybe you'd even save up by not having to need as powerful a gellar field. The Sisters of Silence are proof enough that you can have warp capable ships with blank crew-members keeping their psyker-servants in line.

That might only work because the sisters are so few in number, but if the whole ship was crewed by blanks they might overpower the drive or at last render the Navigator in excruciating pain.

Although evidently the Black Ships were able to carry huge amounts of Blanks yet still function, so many that when they pooled up on Terra they began casting a shadow in the warp. So maybe its still possible?

Im not wrong, youre just an idiot who can't read.

Magnus defended the Librarius program because he helped create it. That does not contradict the fact that before the Librarius was created, when it was still just an idea, he was against its existence.

Why is this a difficult concept for you to understand? Is english not your first language? Do you not understand that Mortarion was not only attacking the Librarius but all psychic use?

>Tyranids might never take notice of the galaxy without a Horus Heresy to destroy the Pharos and cause a celestial burst

fixed

Can you take your autism somewhere else?

There's tech to reduce the potency of the Blank aura and those can be placed around critical systems and the quarters/stations of useful warp-servants. The rest will just have to deal.

This is the right way of things.

The White Scars and Space Wolves were smart and sneaky. Just don't call them psykers. They are Rune Priests and Storm Whatevers. If Magnus was smart, then he would have renamed his Librarians, Bone Shakers. Dub Masters. Meme Magicians.

>Space Wolves
>Sneaky
>Smart
They just lied out of their ass to keep the very thing they attempted to censor famalamadingdong. That's not being smart, that's hipocrisy