/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

NO gay meta plot.

Well for one, that's a dumb oversimplification and we both know it
I don't want fucking 20 species of vampires that try to do everything, including things vampries typically don't at all do like time travel or some dumb shit. Sexy vampire, violent kill people vampire, spooky vampire, sneaky vampire, weird regular power holder vampire. There you go, thats it, that's all you need to tell all your vampire stories.

Even without the Metaplot OWoD is a more robust setting.

I just made a mistake and reinstaled Bloodlines due to lack of wod/cofd fix

Sounds boring. Sure you could spice it up with your individual game and plot pitches, but that doesn't make the setting itself better. In fact I'd say it makes it worse, because it has nothing to actually draw people in.

WoD:Gipsy 20th anniversary when?

If you need special super rare species of vampires to get you inspired enough to play vampire stories then don't play vampire stories in the first place. If you need to be 'drawn in' it means you don't want to play it. This isn't the game for you, go play something else.

>Gipsy

I think you mean Romani, you bigot.

how about literally everything

Owod has better setting. It is called Dark Ages. 1999 all year every year is not that great

You're right. Your boring bland CofD setting with no history is pretty boring and not for me. It never even managed to sell me off of a game I don't even like much, Masquerade.

This is true, Dark Ages is the best and only reason to play oWoD. Even then, I'd probably just play it with the CofD 2e ruleset.

The market isn't as robust as it used to be and is therefore very slow in general and OPP puts a lot on their plate. A few major dev shakeups probably don't help either.

My gf wants me to run a solo VtM campaign for her. Neither of us has any experience with the system. I've read quite a bit about the setting but she's a complete neonate.
Any tips on how to do this?

>they're actually sticking up for the owod metaplot

Listen, mongrels. The reason why the the setting as a whole stunk so badly was because of your beloved Masquerade(the first line) and that annoying piece of shit Fallen(the last line)

The judeo-christian, black n' white, absolute angle destroyed OWoD. Ascension and Apocalypse(the cosmology bit) mingled perfectly.

Fuck, it's hilarious that you asshats complain about it without acknowledging that Vampire is the prime culprit of why the metaplot was so bad. It left no room for anything else.

Simple embrace story? You can always build from there

A game trying to spend so much word count to its setting to try and draw in people who have no inherent like for that type of game is bad design.
Also no, if you liked Masquerade you like vampire games whether you will admit it or not. It did things different but it was still a vampire game.

ERP.

Find one (1) post itt defending the metaplot
We're arguing the setting as a whole was better

>accusing masquerade and fallen of being black and white
>when apocalypse was literally completely black and white
how can you be so fucking retarded?

>>when apocalypse was literally completely black and white
The plot from the PC perspective was very black and white, yes. But the cosmology was far more robust, despite the woof view being very self centered.

Werewolf was absolutely more black and white than vampire was. The enemies are all literally "we wanna destroy the world!!!!"
I won't argue about demon because i dont care about it

What does that have to do with the greater cosmology though?

What do you mean by greater cosmology?
Vampire is a game of shades of grays
Werewolf is a game of black and whites
Theres nothing more to it

I think he might be talking about the thing where the werewolves murdered all the other were things in the prehistory and maybe the thing where some of them want to kill a whole bunch of humans

Just makes the fact that the werewolves are the good guys so much more retarded
I don't like the owod but what hes claming is ridiculous

Well as bad as those who opposed them woofs themselfs were presented as bunch of angry retards. With is funny because outside of gehenna scenerios I do not recall vamps causing anywhere near as much destruction and human death as woofs did

Woofs don't really care about humans, they answer to a higher power
God Apocalypse was shit

>What do you mean by greater cosmology?
The spirit world is huge, robust, and despite werewolves objectively being wrong about their cosmology, the hengyokai pick up the slack, as do the umbral realm books.

If Wraith 20 is actually playable, then it will eternally BTFO every other World of Darkness game, old and new

They aren't though. If you read the books they are clearly the bad guy. You just play as them. Much like other white wolf games (like vampire).

The werewolves arent wrong. They're not 100% good guys, but the fact that they fight against the horrible evil that is the wyrm makes them the good guys
>inb4 akshually the wyrm is imprisoned by the weaver blah blah
hes still trying to destroy the world

NWoD and OWoD Predator Kings is an oversimplification and a false equivalence anyway.

The Vampire stuff is correct though. But Requiem did give us cool stuff, like the Mekhet, the Khaibit, the Nelapsi, etc. Even if you're like my group and run OWoD in Requiem's system, those clans/bloodlines are worth keeping.

>Wyrm is evil
>not the weaver ruining the entire spiritual cycle and unbalancing the world.

The wyrm isn't trying to destroy the world, his emanations created by his struggle to escape are.
The Wyrm did nothing wrong.

Werewolves could be the good guys but their own flaws keep them from being heroes
That's the point

We're discussing cosmologies here, you doop.

>demon
>stunk up the metaplot
you do realize that demon is the game that ties all the gamelines together, right?

>literally called the akshually

thats what i did, you retard

jesus, will furfags ever leave?

Nobody defended the metaplot. The setting was just better.

It ties nearly half the gamelines, yes. And that's why it's universally hated by most of the playerbase.

It went ahead and said things that made no sense in accordance with the other lines. How does that help the metaplot exactly?

Don't be a fucking idiot.

The Werewolf cosmology isn't black and white. Spirits are a universal construct.

>Ascension and Apocalypse(the cosmology bit) mingled perfectly.
How? One said reality is inherently subjective with the eastern reincarnation thing coming along later down the line and another said that the whole world was the result of the wyver wyrm wyrd triad thing constantly creating and destroying and so on. I mean if there was a book that connected the three modes of existence from mage with the three of the triad from werewolf I never read it

Both Mage and Werewolf dealt heavily with the Umbra, AKA the Tellurian, AKA the universe.

They had a more versatile outlook on existence, rather than some narrow minded "God did it" bologna.

Ascension and Apocalypse are FAR more black and white than Masquerade.

Masquerade, even the endgame metaplot apocalyptic stuff, is all shades of grey. In Apocalypse the bad guys are cartoon villains trying to destroy the world and you're a gay ass furry enforce for Gaia trying to save it. In Mage the Technocracy is castrating mankind and trying to turn humanity into braindead drones, whereas the Traditions want ultimately to see humanity fulfill its ultimate potential.

Until the very end when the Gehenna stuff was released, we didn't even know if the big bad guys of Masquerade were real, or just another deception in a game of self-interested dicks on either side of an increasingly blurred and diluted ideological war.

People often forget that for all the accusations of Masquerade's metaplot confirming too much shit and making things too concrete, NONE of it was confirmed for a good 90% of the game's run. Leave out Week of Nightmares and Gehenna and Masquerade is as open-ended as Requiem.

>"God did it" is narrow minded bologna
>"Gaia did it" is versatile

>Gaia did it

I think you mean the Triat. Which is better than any 'God'

>And that's why it's universally hated by most of the playerbase.

People here seem to like it.

You're an honest to god retard if you can't properly read context.

We're talking cosmologies. Masquerade is *not* grey in that sense.

So I just came up with a dumb idea and wonder if anyone treid to do something like that.
Game where players play various spirits, strix, inferno demons and so on. Anyone tried something like that?

The Technocracy and the Traditions are far more grey than anything Masquerade has ever done. Both are bad/good in their own way.

Why? The Triat are just another God essentially. A lame 90's God with names spelled with y's because that's 'cooler'.

Frankly, the description of God in Demon blew everything ever written about the Triat out of the water.

The Triat is something universal. It repsents all.

Not some deviation of earth. Why should some religion of mankind be the end-all-be-all argument? It's highly autistic.

>Name one (1) part of the setting Nu-WoD improved on

Creating a setting that you don't want to play so that I never have to play with someone who unironically uses the prefix "nu-".

Bullshit, the Technocracy have deluded folks that think theyr'e doing good in their ranks but they are actively fucking over mankind on a massive scale, and most of the organization is more about control than anything else. The Traditions have assholes, but they are shooting for the ascension of all humanity to greatness.

It's a black/white scenario. Far moreso than the web of conflicting interests in Masquerade.

That's not to say Ascension was bad. Ascension was fucking great, especially for counter-culture-y teenage-me. But you knew who the good guys were at a glance.

i... i liked both, the god meta and triad meta and i mixed and juggled them both just to fuck with the players just so they never know what is really true

im a fag for that?

>I haven't read convention books: the post

Apocalypse did it best. God is just a powerful Celestine, like all other gods of religion.

There's no reason why the Judeo-Christian God should take up precedence over all else.

I mean, really, there's countless extraterrestrials in the Deep Umbra.

No if it wasn't secretly just been Dreaming all along.
Does M20 have any suggestions on what Changelings might be btw?

Wasn't whole war between tech and traditions an basic materialism vs spirituality angle? Would't call it black and white, there is shitton of players who love to play techs and afaik they get much more softer care in thier splats

Looks like you didn't even read Demon.

While there is one Prime Movement and it technically is described in the Abrahamic religions in the loosest possible sense, pretty much all the stuff that happens in the Bible is unrelated to it. God exists but hasn't had a hand in any of those events, save the very very earliest, and even those didn't go down exactly as described. God in Demon is beyond universal, it's everything that Creation isn't.

Lucifer just made up the Abrahamic religions as a way of combating the Earthbound, who needed faith to sustain themselves. Everything after that is human mythology layered atop of this.

Yeah I guess the Umbra is a connection but it still doesn't really change how the like secret origins of the universe each professes were kinda incompatible.

Not that I know of. I think its trying to move away from putting everything in distinct categories and saying 'Yeah sometimes there's just weird stuff out there and we don't really know but hey whatever'

I just learned 'Goetia' is pronounced as 'Go-wee-she-ya' not 'Go-eat-ya' or 'Goat-e-ya'.

FML.

Dont do it.

Tried it once, The argument over what her chars appearance should be was epic.

You also find out all the batshit crazy stuff, not worth opening that can of worms.

I just pronounce it as Go-ay-sha.

Aspel goes by Shada now?

Describe how the "setting" is better without mentioning the metaplot faggot...

Do they? How can you tell?

Technically Apocalypse doesn't contradict Masquerade/Fallen.

The ultimate 'God' of those two games is beyond comprehension by anything less than it, even by the angels that helped channel its power to shape the cosmos. Judaism and Christianity is about as correct as Hinduism (in a few ways Hinduism is more correct, in that 'God' has no gender here), in that there is a singular, transcendent prime force that created everything. The only other things the Judeo-Christian religions get slightly right is that there was a Cain (but everything about him beyond that is in question), and plenty of religions have a 'first murderer' story he can correspond to.

This is why the Apocalyptic forms and many angels from Demon have names that are reminiscent of Sumerian or Hindu or Aryan deities. Because many of them inspired these mythologies during the War in Heaven or after it.

So God as a powerful Celestine can exist alongside 'God' the Primum Mobile.

I just thought vampire and demon were stupid because it was another
>BUT WHAT IF GOD WAS REALLY THE BAD GUY ALL ALONG?

Are any of the translation guides in the mega?

The clans feel like real institutions rather than arbitrary vampire 'classes' that only exist for RPG purposes, the sectarian divide between the Camarilla and the Sabbat has a more potent conflict involved that provides better direction and a more evocative background for games, the vampires themselves are more creative and interesting, the background and the interwoven threat of ancient, unknowable beings is more conductive to an atmosphere of dread and horror than Requiem's take.

No, none of this is metaplot. Metaplot is stuff like "and then Lucita did etc etc etc and this made etc happen and then Vykos did this whis made etc happen, uh, now this city has changed etc way..." There's a huge difference between lore/history and metaplot.

God is an Archmage

why would you think that?

Sorry. God can't be both a Celestine and an OG omnipotent.

It's about as contradictory as Ascension mingling with Fallen.

not you again

How hard would it be to bring C20 in line with CtL2?

Yeah it can.

The OG omnipotent created everything. The Celestine Yahweh exists within that everything, and some human religions worship it, ascribing the feats of the OG to it.

What if God was one of us?
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Tryin' to make his way home?

Req has actual institutions that are interesting unlike the cam/sabbat.

A Req setting can have as much or as little conflict as you want vs much better villians in VII or belials brood and arguably the strix.

Vampires themselves are as creative and interesting as you make them, they dont have to rely on stupid niche disciplines that make them speshal snowflakes but you can have that if you want also.

You can inject everything you have said about Masq this into a Req game with better rules and have a better experience.

Your just blinded by nostalgia for masq you cant see past it.

The whole point of nwod was a neutral setting canvas so you can paint what you want on it.

Sorry, buddy. God is a Celestine in Apocalypse. Know what this means?

>Archmage enslaves it using Spirit 6

There are lazy bums who groan at empty canvas and demand to have premade map and stats for hookers.

DaveB update on the status of his co-developer for Deviant (from Discord and the OPP forums)"

"I'm not handing Deviant's corebook off, and I don't have a co-Dev for the corebook itself. I do have a co-Dev / aapprentice for the gameline - it's like the way Demon was shared by Rose and Matt McFarland, but Matt Developed the Demon corebook himself, and then they alternated on sourcebooks.

It's partly a formalization of what we've seen over the last couple of games, where stretchgoals the corebook Developer is too busy to do often end up getting done by a nominated person - Danielle for Beast, for example.

My co-"line"-Dev is one of the major writers for Deviant, and I am happy in the knowledge that they're poised to take over whatever I can't do, so that Mage can go back to being my main priority once the hard part of birthing Deviant's core is done.

And yes, this was my idea."

>stats for hookers

>TFW stats for hookers are important to your campaign

How can I get OPP to hire me to fix their shit for them?

Genuine question.

It's not like guy is wrong. All mages are *technically* God.

Then make them! Personalise them! Rip off Goblin Hoes! Or just use simplified stats!

Do what Dave did. Complete 2-3 actual plays and show that you know your shit and have a decent imagination.

Then Swallow all of Rich T's penis right up to the balls. Cum on Rose's fake tits and you have the job.

ps. it helps if you are a rapist or like sexually assaulting people

Where is it stated that Spirit 6 can enslave gods? I'm not seeing it in Masters of the Art.

I can manage that. Does the dick sucking + tit cumming have to be concurrent or can I do one at a time?

>All this oWoD God Talk
>not having your God be a heartless system that is programmed into the very concept of infastructure, throwing away lives and causing despair in order to keep itself running.

Step up.