I know fuck shit nothing about D&D. Where does a hero begin his quest?

>Implying 5e fixed any of the problems listed.
Spoiler: It didn't, it just dumbed them down to stupidly pedantic levels and hid them better, rather than actually fixing them at all.
The worst part is, DnDrones are so fucking retarded they ate it up eagerly and praised 5e as the "savior of the franchise".

5e? The guy you are quoting said 4e.

While I am not a big fan of D&D myself, shitting on it to newfags is not helpful.

It's not bad, it's just that it caters to a specific group of roleplayers which don't need their games to be overly realistic (or cinematic) nor to particularly promote acting out or player control over the narrative. At its core, the rules stress the game aspects most of all with fairly simple rules for beating up monsters, taking their stuff and leveling up like in computer games. Whcih doesn't preclude roleplay and cinematic adventures, it's just that the game itself does not have rules that particularly promote them.

On the flipside, it has the largest community by far (in the US), so finding gamers should be doable, and a fair amount of high-production value content, plus you get nerd creds in the eyes of normies.

4e fans are even worse, because 4e is basically "MMO combat simulator".
>Fight Starts
>Blow encounter-powers because there's no long-term resource management
>Spam basic moves on anything that survives because you blew all your encounter powers

Wow... so fucking deep and tactical. Really engaging roleplaying right there. Still wish the game actually handled out-c=of-combat roleplaying at all, but then again DnD evolved from a wargame, so I'm probably asking too much from my pretend "roleplaying" game.

COmpletely wrong. OP, don't listen to this guy. You don't learn RPG rules from books as a newb if it can be avoided at any cost. Instead, you find a group and learn it during play, using the rulebooks as reference.

are groups usually alright with noobs? I know some games would gladly help a newcomer but others would fucking devour them. And where would these groups be?

Since it doesn’t sound like you have friends that are into ttrpgs, your best bet is probably your local game store, they often have people playing there, or better yet a way to get into a non-public group. If you’re in college there’s a good chance your school has a ttrpg club. And there’s always playing online through roll20 and stuff but that can be chancey. Of course playing with friends is the best, so maybe try to get your existing friend group into it if they’re receptive, but you might have to do the DMing.
And any good group will be friendly and not actively seek to give you a bad time. If some group of fucksticks seem more interested in making you a punching bag than making sure everyone is having fun, get outta there, there are always more fish in the sea.

The 20-level system is barely used. Anything past level 15 is for the optional high-level game someone will necessarily want.
Other than that in 5e, most of these problems aren't that bad at all. It plays really fine especially for newcomers.

>level 15
DnD literally starts falling apart around level 7, when the casters have multiple "fuck you" spells in regards to the rules and are basically already demi-gods who have a tool to brute-force their way past any problem they encounter with reality-hacks.

Rules for 3.5 ED and 5 ED
d20srd.org

You have most people playing pathfinder too
d20pfsrd.com

There's a better site for 5e but I can't find it at the moment.

Also play a better game too.

thegiddylimit.github.io/5etools.html
there we go
That's a much more comprehensive 5e thing.

Yeah, they are. New players usually means more opportunities to play and it's not rocket science to be a player. Being a GM is a tad bit more challenging. Don't be a douche and if you encounter douches, don't be discouraged. It's a bit like the dating game.

Stop feeding OP shitty memes.

OP, don't listen to this idiot.

Except he's entirely right. Disprove any of the points raised and prove you're not just another screeching DnDrone who's way too invested in their own suffering to consider that other games might actually be better... or *gasp* fun.

Don't listen to this troll OP he's lying to you.

Still waiting on you to actually have any sort of reasonable comeback for the problems pointed out with DnD, instead of just covering your ears and screeching "YOU'RE WRONG" like the every other DnDrone.

By the time you reach level 7 you most likely have a very long campaign behind you.
Remember Gygax who made characters retire once they got too close to level 10 ? That's a good thing to do.

>He
Stop trying to pretend you're not a single person

Too bad the majority of class features that actually make classes unique or capable of cool stuff is level 8+. You might as well just have 2 classes if you're never playing beyond level 8. Classes with a d10 hit dice and no magic, and classes with a d6 hit dice and magic.

Not an argument, try again.

Also, two people agreeing you're retarded when you're retarded might just mean you're actually retarded.

He's right though. Not only is it pretty obvious you're samfagging pretty hard, but you're also spewing meme bullshit to discourage people from having fun with what you don't like.

This, except I;d change the number to like level 5 or 6, thats when most classes get their first "defining" feature that's not casting. Also why I always start my games at level 5. The early levels before that are boring as piss.

Not an argument, try again, DnDrone, I'm waiting.

Going to actually defend your viewpoint, or just keep attacking everyone who disagrees with you because you can't actually do that?

Except some of those memes are literally 100% true. Calling them memes doesn't actually discredit them or make them untrue.

Oh yeah, try not to get overly vitriolic about systems and fun you don’t like like this guy here. Basically the console war faggots of Veeky Forums.

Holy fuck, you're that, "Not an argument," cuck. You're literally one of the worst posters on this board. Just fuck off already with your inane bullshit.

Play Anima: Beyond Fantasy instead.

What the fuck are you talking about ?
>Battlemaster
>Any caster
>Paladin
>Barbarian
All of these guys have extremely cool stuff either since the beginning or around level 3 and that's just from the top of my mind.
Unless your fun stems from being able to feel more powerful than anyone else, what you say is full of shit.

By not playing D&D

>Not an argument
>Didn't use a single one to support his claim
Wew lad.

>I literally have no argument, so I'm going to call you made up-up boogeyman and act like people should know about you.

Welp, I'm disappointed thats the best "argument" you had. Dissapointed, but not surprised.

Yeah, if you ignore all the original posts full of actual arguments from multiple people earlier.

What is basic reading comprehension?

Okay, here we go
>HP bloat
Never understood why this was a problem. HP just like AC is a gameplay mechanic that counters a special way of dealing damage.
>Caster supremacy
Game-breaking spells arrive pretty late in the game. For some people it's a legitimate argument, but they still largely nerfed 3.5 clerics and druids, and fighters now have cool class options. I'm having a lot of fun with the barbarian even though there's a cleric and sorcerer in the team. If balance really bothers you in a cooperative game, it's indeed a legitimate reason not to play - but I don't see why one would care.
>Optimized builds
Now that's just ridiculous. Don't complain you're not in a role-playing game if what you're going to do is forget RP to play optimized builds. If you agree with your friends on what kind of game you're going to play, you won't have this problem of an overpowered player.

Honestly all your problems don't appear when you actually play the game, which I'm pretty sure you never did.

The only actual argument was the 4e post, which supported its claim with actual examples I don't disagree with in any case.
Others were just claims that weren't backed up by examples.

In order of how retarded these are:

>Game-breaking spells arrive pretty late in the game.
You mean how at level 5 the wizard can fly, turn invisible, mind control people, summon minions, hit multiple enemies at once, shapeshift, and a whole other slew of reality-breaking powers?

Yeah, level 5 in a 20 level game is not "game breaking".

>Don't complain you're not in a role-playing game if what you're going to do is forget RP to play optimized builds.
Shame it's practically required to make certain classes even remotely playable, and the game builds it's encounters and challenge ratings around optimized parties.

>Never understood why this was a problem. HP just like AC is a gameplay mechanic that counters a special way of dealing damage.
Oh boy, here's where we get into the arguments that a dagger only does 1d4 damage, so slitting someone's throat in their sleep doesn't kill them. In before people try to justify shitty homebrews for fixing the systems' actual failings.

>Caster supremacy
>Game-breaking spells arrive pretty late in the game

I have no words for how stupid this is. You know, congrats, you won, enjoy your perfect game, I can't argue with this kind of stupid. Even 5eg often admits that casters are broken as fuck and suggests playing without certrain classes like Wizard. I'm done, Goodnight.

>TFW the people in 5th Edition General are literally less of brainwashed DnDrones than the DnDrones on the rest of the board.

There we are. Actual arguments.
The wizard one is not entirely untrue. I'd argue that having one 3rd level spell a day at level 5 doesn't make 1 flight or invisibility as overpowered as you make them. It's not like it can do all at the same time. Plus, almost all of those are supposed to be support actions - you know, in a cooperative game. If you don't play with assholes you'll have zn invisible rogue and a flying archer and the game is fun for everyone.
It's still rather legitimate if you don't take around 5 minutes to sort the problem out.

>Dagger argument
You auto-crit on an asleep target. And slitting a throat isn't as easy as it seems - that's why rogues get sneak attack (and that shit's deadly on a crit). Many people actually survived slashed throats (there was a WW2 fighter known for that). Though no enemy will begin the fight in good shape with a slitted throat, beginning its turn prone with a team of dudes ready to stab him in the face.

>Optimized builds again
They went to pretty great lengths to make every class playable. Please provide examples and stop name-calling.

Also, DnD is neither the only system nor the best. I'm just saying the reasons not to play it aren't the ones you tell yourself are game-breaking flaws.
Actual reasons not to play :
- you don't like fantasy
- you want a mechanically deadlier game
- you want a game that is mechanically oriented towards storytelling
- you are a man of fine taste who likes gurps

>They don't know most people don't play past level 5

I mean, I START games at level 5, so classes actually have fun features to play around with.

But then again I'm not going to pretend for one second that DnD is even remotely "realistic" or "balanced". My players know they're in for the equivalent of a shitty videogame with tons of glitches and broken mechanics when they play, but that's OK because sometimes it's fun to enjoy something broken.

>Even 5eg often admits that casters are broken as fuck and suggests playing without certrain classes like Wizard.

As far as I've seen, their opinion is that class balance ranges from "extremely useful" to "very useful" to "somewhat less useful" and is generally tighter than it was during third (perhaps comparable to older editions) and that it only starts to get silly if you put effort into optimization.

But I don't hang out there much.

I sometimes start games at level 5 or 6 just for shits and giggles.
The monk curb-stomped anything I threw at them with laughable ease due to extremely good rolls.

>Never understood why this was a problem. HP just like AC is a gameplay mechanic that counters a special way of dealing damage.
It's not how health/damage works - neither in real life nor, crucially, in fiction. It goes coutner to immersion.
>Game-breaking spells arrive pretty late in the game
Depending on your edition they arrive mid-level, to early level (Sleep?).
>Don't complain you're not in a role-playing game if what you're going to do is forget RP to play optimized builds.
Agreed, it's not a problem with D&D itself but with the cancerous D&D community. I don't know an RPG which has an optimization culture the way D&D has. Absolutely disgusting.

Best post in the thread.

I defended D&D several times in the thread and I couldn't agree more.

I don't see the problem. High level enemies can use the same demi-god powers against the players, so it evens out.

>If everyone has infinite-ammo rocket launchers, my shooter game is fun and balanced!

And that is where tactics and stategical thinking comes in, so your success does not depend on some static skills and spells, but your unique utilization and thinking.

Not necessarily fun, but definitely balanced.

Shit, now I'm thinking about it.
>everyone gets a rocket launcher
>everyone can move at a reasonable pace and can outrun rockets
>Rockets do only 1/10 damage to yourself and 0 damage to allies so you can rocket jump
>you can mod your rocket launchers to hold larger clips before reloading, shoot faster, do more damage or have a larger radius
>direct hits will kill but it's hard when everyone is rocket-hopping through the air
>arenas vary - for example one is columns and hills/valleys meaning you can walljump with rockets if you're good enough or splash an enemy by hitting a column near them

Hell yeah, it'd be fun and balanced.

You'd want a good tutorial, to teach new players stuff like walljumping. A minor thing I've realized I've wanted in games for ages but never got it that would be handy there? The ability to fire a direction you are not looking. So you can more tightly control your rocket jumping if you know the course.

...Isn't that basically the premise of Tribes: Ascend?