>"Grug is a beastman of the tribal lands. He is 8' tall and marred with scars which cover every inch of his body. Half his face burned off during battle, he has only one eye. His hair dark and unwashed lays filthy over his hunched back. Grug never speaks. He understands the common language but only grunts when spoken to and bares his fangs when insulted."
>charisma: 21 [life of the party]
How do you tell someone to stick their character draft up their arse?
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Charisma can just be personal magnatism. You can be a fucking mute and still have high charisma. The beastman exudes an aura of wild strength and fury. Body language.
So basically it's a black rapper. Those exist.
I think you need to understand what stats mean, faggot.
Black.
Rapper.
So it's a furry thing?
>charisma means social butterfly
>charisma means beautiful fashion model
i hate this meme. mental stats have no bearing on looks, strong silent type is a thing. Physical one have more influence. you are the one in the wrong for believing DnD stereotyping.
No is a power and domination thing, where everyone around him knows that he is head honcho.
Fucker, Balrogs have CHA in the high 20s despite being ugly motherfuckers.
>ugly characters can have high charisma
Kill yourself.
Same description, CHA 21
>enters room
>holy shit, what kind of monster is that?
>better not provoke it
>please stop glaring at me
>leaves room
Same description, CHA 8
>enters room
>who is this ugly brute?
>ugh
>"Guards, remove this animal from the premises."
Does Elf cock really taste that good?
>believing DnD stereotyping.
Even D&D is pretty explicit about that. In every edition the Charisma=Beauty is a one line throwaway thing
Dude, even the fucking rulebook has said this and has given examples.This is very much true, unless you think Liches, Balrogs, and Krakens are the pinnacles of sexuality and beauty.
>charisma is unrelated to physical looks
I mean, many politicians are an argument against that charisma is a physical looks thing.
Yes. I don't get what posting fat bitches has anything to do with it. Do you think most of congress/politicians are fucking handsome?
Do you think most porn stars could carry themselves in a debate or legitimately inspire or convicne a crowd of people of people to change their mind. And I mean actually change their minds and not getting a nod and a a "uh huh yeah".
Winston Churchill looked like a ham that had been left in the rain but he's still got charisma out the ass
You're telling me you'd have no issue with a hambeast character with 20+ charisma?
You're describing Taft.
...
So...Churchhill with a vagina? Sure.
Okay, but how do you go about seduction then? Seduction rolls are influenced by charisma.
I'd gloss over it, because while some fat people can and do frequently get laid, I don't want to picture any part of that process.
>best example of a high cha ugly character is a politician
>OP is describing an ugly, filthy beast that barely talks, and does so only in short responses
you wouldn't consider churchill a good example if all he'd done was look at his feet and mumble
Most politicians are an argument against high charisma.
I don't.
> Seduction rolls are influenced by charisma.
I wouldn't include them. Seduction rolls aren't apart of the game. You still do see ugly guys able to pull hot chicks.
Or just not roll for that shit like a not autist. "This person would not find your character sexually attractive, don't bother rolling".
Seduction isn't just about sex. It's about manipulation and there's nothing saying a large woman can't be manipulative.
Cash is a bonus to CHA rolls
Power, wealth, and force of personality can go a long way to getting laid. Chris Farley, Churchill, Robert Baratheon. Shit, Baron Harkonen oozed charisma and grease in equal measure.
I mean, there are plenty of hideous monsters in the bestiary that with high as fuck charisma. See Balrogs and Krakens.
A Giant fucking Squid Monster has 20 Charisma.
Add a flaw if they're disgusting unless they're that blue moon fatass that can play it off.
I dunno, ask Kevin James.
why the fuck? is this shit just for gameplay purposes, so they get some stupidly high save for something?
goddamn D&D
Maybe. But you have to admit a giant squid has a certain amount of presence.
I don't see the problem. Unintelligent monsters have had charisma that high.
The person who statted them was a Japanese schoolgirl.
>Okay, but how do you go about seduction then? Seduction rolls are influenced by charisma.
Chalk it up to the power dynamic. All real world evidence suggests power is AT LEAST as sexy as any measure of physical attractiveness.
No, it's because how terrifying and how intimidating something can be is also can be a function of charisma. The Kraken in D&D is fully sapient. It has 22 Intelligence ass well. I.E Smarter than most wizards.
It's almost like Charisma isn't just a measure of physical beauty or something and people should actually read the fucking rules instead of just memes.
Alternative, maybe anime japanese school girls are on to something.
it sounds more like charisma is so watered down and vague a concept that it can be applied to literally anything
>trust me that squid has a really good personality
It's almost like having a good personality will make almost any abomination tolerable to hang out with, wheras having a bad personality will repel all but the most dick-driven individuals from someone who is otherwise attractive.
>it sounds more like charisma is so watered down and vague a concept that it can be applied to literally anything
WELCOME TO MENTAL STATS
>trust me that squid has a really good personality
Not necessarily a good personality, but a strong one. This isn't just any fucking squid it is THE fucking squid.
>trust me that squid has a really good personality
why not
>that squid can force others to obey him
Charisma isn't necessarily a great personality, just the ability to get others to do what you want them to. Failing an Intimidate check doesn't necessarily mean that they don't fear you, but that they don't do what you want them to do.
It's because they all have spell-like abilities that typically are determined from charisma. The kraken can call storms and enslave the minds of lesser beings, for example.
>mfw when you will never reach squid goals and be in an interspecies relationship with a tentacle fetishist
It's okay user, I have faith you can do it. Either through gene manipulation, meeting aliens, or realistic VR, I'm sure there's a tentacle monster waiting for you.
It's possible for literally inhuman looking dragons, demons, devils, and the like to have high charisma, yet you draw the line at beastmen?
>He doesn't have a stat for physical appearance in his game
They made the Comeliness score for a reason.
>it sounds more like charisma is so watered down and vague a concept that it can be applied to literally anything
Yep! That is correct. It is the score they use when they can't (or won't) think of anything better. It is used for spell-like abilities, sorcery, using magic devices (?), social skills, iaijutsu (uhh...), playing the lute, handling animals, and more. None of those things have anything to do with each other. Just give up on explaining it; Charisma is a vestige from old editions kept around because they feel that the 6 ability scores are past of D&D's identity, its brand.
Does anyone homebrew Charisma out?
Yeah, I do. In my games Charisma, Wisdom, and Intelligence are all one stat called "Intelligence", except it does not give bonus skill points or languages (instead, all classes get additional skill points for free). That way there are no "dump stats", as the one mental stat affects almost all of the skills and contributes to Will saves, which makes it useful. It also ends the ambiguity of what falls under Wisdom and what under Intelligence, and gets rid of the confusing and meaningless Charisma stat.
It has worked pretty well so far.
His charisma score isnt the problem
the title of "life of the party" is.
you can be very persuasive when you're an 8 foot meaty gorilla man. you don't have to be a hot model to intimidate someone effectively
>being so stupid he doesn't know the difference between worldliness, intelligence and social nuance so he just ditches them all into intelligence
Christ
Yeah so we had another dump stat
Money replaces all stats though.
Imagine being this much of a brainlet
Balors and krakens aren't hideous. They're monstrous, sure, but they're not instinctively revolting like an ugly or deformed humanoid is.
>Retards think Charisma is dependent on appearance
>The Paladin somehow gets more and more handsome as they progress through the adventure
I'm sure that making all mental/social activity, and presumably casting, controlled by one stat is totally a good idea.
Okay, but a paladin slowly turning into a chad would be a fantastic take on the class.
>it sounds more like charisma is so watered down and vague a concept that it can be applied to literally anything
Thats the brainlet obtuse way of understanding it but yes, charisma is supposed to be difficult to pin down, its part of the whole deal
"Charisma" is force of will, both in persuasive means and in full-on iron will type shenanigans. A Sorcerer casts with CHA because they're grabbing magic by the balls and throwing it. A Warlock is channeling the power of something that could snuff them out like a candle and using it as a weapon. A Paladin's magic comes from the strength of their conviction and their devotion to their Oath, represented by CHA.
A WIS save is seeing magic trying to subvert you with mind tricks or subtle magics and wiggling away. A CHA save is when magic tries to outright fuck you over with raw power, such as Banishment throwing you to another dimension, and saying NOPE.
>I don't understand the english language
Off the top of my head: Stephen fry is an example of a fugly gay man who is so witty and charming women want to lay with him. Other actors are available.
>using magic devices (?
they are dependant on attuning, and the success of the attunnement is dependent on personality
>iaijutsu
they are fantasy samurais, what did you expect?
>playing the lute
sure you can play good with pure skill, but will it be a beautiful tune?
>handling animals
self-explanatory, body language is everything when dealing with animals, also, animal magnetism, its a fantasy game
Untrue. Power has to be leveraged in some way. Physical attraction is immediate and requires little leeway into convincing.
Stop thinking you can soak a hot chick's panties if one day you become rich. will simply be untrue.
Dragons, demons, devils, and the like are inhuman, but not hideous; they're not instinctively unpleasant to look at like an ugly humanoid is.
>something like this isn't considered hideous next to just an ugly human or humanoid
t. fucking idiot
Power can literally make you attractive, though. Or at the very least make women horny. Attraction is a complex beast and appearance is only a part of it.
No more stupid than how upper body, lower body, back, and abdominal strength is all handled by Strength, or how manual dexterity and whole-body agility are both handled by Dexterity. You can be as granular as you wish with these things.
If you think about it, you can have anywhere from zero to an arbitrarily high number of ability scores, depending on how you divvy it up. The distinction between a social person and a number-crunching person can be handled by skill choice, rather than another ability score. Besides, you cannot reasonably claim that intelligence has nothing to do with social skills or "worldliness": stupid people tend to be socially awkward as well.
With casting, the mental score only affects DCs (we houseruled away the bonus spell slots/power points from ability scores).
As for the all mental/social activity thing, consider: in the game our home game is based on, you get skill points from a high Intelligence score, which you can spend on anything you like, including any kind of mental/social activity or even physical training. So it isn't so much of a stretch from what you are already used to.
You sound fucking amazing. I bet all your friends think you are the smartest and deepest person they know
I take it that is sarcasm.
You really passed that "Intelligence" check
This isn't that ugly. It's shocking at first glance because of all the spikes, but otherwise it doesn't look any uglier than a normal lizard or whatever. It's pretty fit; a lot of people would probably rather fuck that than a regular flabby dude with an ugly face if they could be sure they wouldn't be injured in the process.
The makeup is ugly because it reminds us of ugly humans wearing makeup in the same style. Take that away and the only reason left is because it's fat.
>stupid people tend to be socially awkward as well
"I dont go to parties" the post
Who knew all those illiterate Chads were secret geniuses
Or, perhaps those Chads simply put skill ranks into deception, diplomacy, and performance.
>Stephen Hawking is a social dynamo
>Chads are worldly spiritual gurus
>The streetwise ghetto preacher is as smart as Einstein.
>would rather believe feminazi demon is somewhat attractive rather than admit grunting beastman can be charismatic
Boi are you reaching something far
And if we're going to those levels of alternative types of attraction, surely the strong and silent, tall and rugged manly beastman with rippling muscles could be seen as attractive too.
Stephen Hawking was a popular, witty, and lively person in college. Though his illness physically prevents him from speaking, he is actually an argument in favour of Intelligence being related to social ability, not against it. He has zero Dexterity, but his social abilities are fine.
And a preacher may well be just as smart as Einstein, they just specialized in different fields (as represented in-game by skill points, rather than ability scores).
I'm not saying it's attractive. It's not. But the things that make us go "eugh" are human, or are shared by humans. Like, here's a normal-ass balor that isn't fat or disfigured. He looks pissed, sure, but he doesn't trigger the same instinctive discomfort we have when we see people whose faces are just a little too asymmetrical or who are visibly diseased or disfigured; he's just a muscly red dude with an animal head.
And yes, a strong and silent, tall and rugged beastman can be attractive. But the guy we're talking about doesn't stand tall; his back is hunched. He's not silent in a dignified manner; he makes grunting noises at people. His face is half melted, and presumably not in the Hollywood way where it's just got a funky texture but keeps its well-sculpted shape. If he's ugly, his body language fails to inspire confidence, and he says nothing insightful, *where* does the charisma come from?
Looking up Charisma in the dictionary, it seems like your beastman does indeed fail to meet the
>compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.
definition, but there is another one:
>a divinely conferred power or talent.
So there. His Charisma comes from the Gods. The dictionary said so, it must be true.
It probably all went to Intimidate ranks. You'd be scared of anyone who was in that line of work, had injuries that bad, and wasn't dead, because whatever he's survived is certainly scarier than anything you've been through.
Except he is silent in a dignified manner, he has 21 charisma.
More importantly, it's because he carries himself, though he is twisted and broken, in a way that commands absolute fear and respect. When he enters a room, everyone turns, looks, then hurriedly look away. His wounds aren't a sign of weakness but evidence of his toughness - he has survived what would kill a thousand lesser men. His stink isn't disgusting like some alcoholic slob but rather the stench of a fierce primal animal, pungent but menacing.
The problem with that argument is that Charisma does not affect skill ranks: it provides an equal modifier to Diplomacy as it does to Intimidate. Intelligence gives you bonus skill points, but Charisma does not. The argument that you'd be "scared of anyone who was in that line of work" is more in favor of Intimidate being Strength-based than this particular character having a high Charisma.
>Except he is [charismatic], he has 21 charisma.
>Except my character [, a dickass thief who murders for sport, ] is Lawful Good. It says right there on the sheet.
Man, don't be silly.
>it's because he carries himself, though he is twisted and broken, in a way that commands absolute fear and respect
I'd buy that, but only if his history is well-known in the setting. It's not very believable to me that people would read that far into the appearance of a literally who.
Hideousness is just as effective as beauty when it comes to dramatic presence, which is really the root of charisma: Presence. He looks striking, and probably carries himself in a way that commands attention and alters the social mood around him.
The opposite of charismatic in the D&D sense isn't ugly or boorish, it's plain and meek and weak-willed.
Are you being deliberately dense?
It's clearly nothing like a lawful good dickass thief
And people read into first appearances, it's a pretty well known piece of psychology.
Read into it so charitably, I mean. It's just not something that I can see happening.
To be fair, 21 charisma is pretty inhuman/unusual iirc.
It is amazing the lengths to which people contort in this thread to try and justify the idea that no, he really is charismatic, trust me. Its like, I could post an emancipated victim of famine and say that this guy has 22 Strength right now, and you'd be like "Yeah, totally. Absolutely. How could he not?"
He actually had a terrible stutter his work around was constantly rehearsing in the mirror
That'd be fine and good—but he lacks presence. He lacks presence in a specific way, in that he doesn't speak. His words aren't weighty; he just grunts at people. So none of all that is something he can effectively capitalize on. If he's altering the social mood, he's only altering it in pretty much one way and the same way every time; and in that sense that's something that anyone who looks outlandish enough can do.
>But the things that make us go "eugh" are human, or are shared by humans.
Literally just your dumb perception
>Like, here's a normal-ass balor that isn't fat or disfigured. He looks pissed, sure, but he doesn't trigger the same instinctive discomfort we have when we see people whose faces are just a little too asymmetrical or who are visibly diseased or disfigured; he's just a muscly red dude with an animal head.
Youre a fucking retard, that thing is fucking hideous and anyone would be scared shitless of him, even a simple goat-headed human would be leagues more displeasing than a simple ugly man, fuck off with that bullshit nigga
>Power has to be leveraged in some way.
It actually doesn't. Just *being* successful signals "can support you when you're too busy to do it by yourself"
>Stephen Hawking was a popular, witty, and lively person in college.
Its just shitty people coddling him, dont be this naive
>even a simple goat-headed human would be leagues more displeasing than a simple ugly man
Easy enough on the eyes to star in a shoujo manga.
Compare anime faces to japanese faces and tell me that's a fair comparison.
>using chinese cartoons as an argument
retard
The leap from "can" to "will" seems easier for people to imagine when it comes to physical attraction than to power.