/srg/ Shadowrun General - Three Marks Means I'm Your Daddy

Why was Shadowrun: HK so bad when the other 2 especially Dragonfall was so good?

>shits on HK while praising returns
You have some terrible, terrible fucking taste chummer. Please go and french kiss a 12 gauge.

Kong Kong was great.

While mechanically lacking Returns had a solid story and characters. HK not so much.
No not really. It was pretty damn skub with a shitty Matrix. The normal combat was pretty good.

Skub doesn't mean bad, it just means people are readily willing to fight over it.

>your 'team', for what it is, gets very little development
>Harlequin.
>the entire murder mystery is boring
>this story is somehow better than HK
I get it user the dwarf sucked. But holy fuck she doesnt bring down HK to returns level. And the matrix was far worse in returns. At least HK had that kind of neat repetition minigame.

i dont think its that the otheres were bad, but i agree that dragonfall was amazing. It is open ended enough that you dont really feel forced to do the all the missions, but you want to because the characters and pacing is really spot on.

Returns suffers from no choice matters really and its super linear, but it was their first game and they played it pretty simple and safe. I liked the established runner start as well so you could fill in whatever you wanted. I haven't finished HK yet, but im not super into it for a few reasons. I think i just dont like the setting that much, or maybe dragonfall just ruined me for that one. HK used the same opening of "run gone wrong," but it didnt have the same brutal kick. Mechanically HK is superior. Especially the hacking bits. In that same strain Im loving is0bel's missions atm.

My GM let me have Revels in Murder count when I'm deliberately trying to kill other deckers with biofeedback and dump shock. That plus go big or go home.

So far I've managed to burn out two spiders and three script kiddies who were hired by a gang to hit us during a run.

>Some dedicated Guardsmen were able to get it to run on one of the Weapons Platoon's heavy support servitors.
>In the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millennium some lobotomite has been reprogrammed to play Tetris.

Be thankful you weren't converted into a eroge servitor.

>Riddled the Sixth World's corporate-fueled microtransactions
Jesus Christ... How can they get any worse than EA today?

One of the microtransactions is for playtime.

easy, we're back to the days of arcade games. Every time you die or change a level, you'd better make another 2Y payment.

Hong Kong was better than Dragonfall in every way omae.
>better characters
>better music
>better mechanics
Glory was literally the only interesting party member and the only interesting npc was the BTL chick. They don't compare to Ambrose, the Clube 88 family or even Shen.

If I recall correctly, even BTL experiences are streamed, so it's perfectly viable to think that most if not all mainstream game releases are just streamed on a subscription service.

You mean like a... monthly subscription?

Nah, see, you buys these gems right? As you play, your gem supply runs down, and you can buy more gems to get more time. What they don't tell you is that the gem counter runs down faster the more gems you have (and you hide the counter in the menus to hide that fact, and also increase the likelihood of the player ending up running out of gems in an engrossing moment).

You can also use the gems to buy weaponry, accelerate research, level up, etc.

>What they don't tell you is that the gem counter runs down faster the more gems you have
that'd be discovered in a single day.
People usually check what they get before they put the money up. If you know each crystal counts down in Y amount of time you expect to be able to play YxAmount of Crystals.
If you run out earlier people will know and justly complain.

What's a lot more effective is a pay wall in front of random rewards like keys to open chests and whatnot. It's basically legal gambling by a different name. And people do get addicted if you fine tune the reward schedules appropriately.
Any evil corporation with a 101 knowledge of behavioral psychology is probably gonna be able to steal money away from you in much subtler ways and make you feel good about it at the same time.

Please tell me that's not a real thing
Please

Give NeoNet and Horizon a chance, I'm sure it is.

>If you know each crystal counts down in Y amount of time
"Nowhere was it stated that a crystal is worth a set amount of time".

For extra fuckery, make it based on the number of players in the server, recent playtime (more recent playtime means the gems last longer. keep playing), time of day, and motion of dust particles in a bell jar in one of your offices.

Like I said I haven't played it all the way through, maybe 60% or so.
>better characters
sure i guess i don't dislike any of them so far, but the only ones that pop is drone daddy and to a lesser extent gaichu. It seems like they had more time to work on writing for npcs. Dragonfall was just a small expansion originally right?
>better music
to be honest the music in these games kind of blend together. I do notice the sanxian and that does stylize it more. So i guess thats a plus? I'll run some HK in the next session and see if i notice anything.
>better mechanics
Yea its a sequel. Feels like theres only room for improvement for the series. Things i notice are: smoother camera, more options, combat controls easier, and hackingv2 like i said. I have had a crash more than the other ones though. Stuck in combat with no enemies too.

That doesn't make any sense. The entire point of BTLs is that they are addictive, short-lived experiences to force the junkie to keep buying more. Streaming that experience is counter-intuitive.

Am I reading Anarchy right? Armor acts more like ablative wounds than a resistance modifier?

maybe on a pay per view basis ?

i'm currently playing a rigger/rifles character in SHK partly because i think that the advantages gained from cyberware are better than those gained from magic and partly because a rifle character is a better starting character

like you gain 2 ranged combat, 4 quickness, 16HP, 2 armour, 1 int and a monowhip which is a lot better defensively and only a little bit worse offensively

also you get to upgrade to the ARES HVAR in the sequel and you can actually consistently hit thinks when you're playing on hard which is what i've switched to

anyway here's raymond's stats

hong kong has better gameplay, looks better and has waaaaaaaaay more content

dragonfall is fine but there aren't as many builds and the opening mission is really boring to replay

Okay Toronto user from yesterday/last thread here. So far here's some notes on what I have down for Toronto in this crazy crazy world:

>Ares has a huge presence due to Toronto being close to Detroit, as well as Mississauga being the bigger industrial section of the GTA
>Horizon is a major player due to Toronto being the UCAS' version of Hollywood, seeing as how Vancouver is part of the NAN and Hollywood has been lost to California.
>Shiawase has a few holdings in Toronto proper as they're mainly interested in the Green Belt.
>Northern sections of what was once farmland are now shitty run down little towns that house the poor and forgotten people who fled the NAN and their families.
>Toronto as since swallowed up a good chunk of Markham, Pickering, Ajax and Oshawa
>Due to how spread out the different cities around Toronto all have their respective sections of chinatown and little italy, the Yakuza, Triads and Mob have territorial disputes on the regular with their main concern being the properties of Finch Avenue.
>The Green Belt is home to many fantastical creatures and a lot of shamans live in and around there.
>Toronto has MASSIVE smuggling rings due to the proximity to Quebec.
>Leafs actually won a cup. Only took them 70 years.

Melee cyberware user would destroy a ranged one any day of the week in HK.

Is this screenshot a spoiler ?

>Melee cyberware user would destroy a ranged one any day of the week in HK.
firstly HK is PvE and AP damage isn't as good as it is 1v1

secondly i'm playing a rigger hybrid, and you REALLY don't want to use melee when you're a rigger

thirdly because of how i'm spending karma i've only got 6 points in quickness and 8 points in ranged combat, switching to melee would mean i wouldn't get the two additional points of ranged combat from sk skillwires

fourthly i'm playing on hard where it's already difficult to hit people
lol like anyone actually thought raymond was dead

>Toronto has swallowed up the 'Shwa.

The 'Shwa wishes. There's already nothing in that town except deadbeat, drug addicts, dropouts, and people fucking their sister.

>Horizon is a major player due to Toronto being the UCAS' version of Hollywood, seeing as how Vancouver is part of the NAN and Hollywood has been lost to California.

Hollywood North is a real thing. Don't forget, Toronto has a lot of Effects and Video Game studios. VR, AR, and sinsence games would all be big industry up there.

>Leafs actually won a cup. Only took them 70 years.

They bought it. The leafs are already one of the highest earning, highest paying team out there. Leaf gear sells out super fast whenever there is a limited run, the seats are almost sold out for every game, and the fans are fucking die-hard. It wouldn't matter where you come from or what meta-type you are, dwarf, troll, or anything in between; as long as you rep the blue-and-white you'll have a friend in Toronto.

What about Centre Island. And I don't just mean the bullshit Centreville amusement park; that place is a home for the fucking rich and powerful. There has to be some shit going on there.

Nice. I've never actually tried to dumpshock someone in 5e; rebooting them or gtfo myself always seemed easier.

They might've not expected him to join you, just find him dying or evil or whatever. Spoiler your spoilers, that's what the function is for.

should i just spoiler every screenshot from the game that isn't the first mission then

spoiler: gobbet likes sandwiches

i have never used image spoilers before

Oh the one that has the Porter Airport? Oh, fucking christ, they'd have Horizon trid celebrities holled up there with the best fucking mercs out there to guard them. Of course one would begin to wonder if it's a prison more than a luxury neighborhood.

And trust me I know all about the leafs fan thing. My mom is one. I probably imagine the Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment company being bought out by Ares when they started expanding into Toronto so they could have Ads all around the Ares Center. I'm still fucking pissed about Scotia Bank buying out the Air Canada center. IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME RING TO IT.

>bemoaning the changing of one corporate branding to another

We have already fallen into the Sixth World; check under the bed for elves.

you only like Air Canada Centre because that's what you grew up with; in 20 years the kids will complain when Scotiabank Arena gets renamed

How many bonus dice should "having the original present" offer on a test to see through a disguise?

By logic used in the book, +2.
Consider that most skillchecks done by non runners but trained are with 6-9 dice.

So a trained nonrunner at the absolute bottom end of the scale and who is rushing their disguise as fast as possible (so no bonus from their kit) will have 12 dice thrown into the test, up to a maximum of the mental+social limits, and a trained nonrunner who is exceptionally observant and who has the original person there to compare to will be rolling 11 with only their mental limit to work with when they try to see through it?

I guess that's a good reason to spring for quality biometric scanners.

Don't forget there is also the chance that the runner will just fuck up the behaviour.

Or ask them questions like "How yre your kids doing?"
But biometric scanner is cool too, i guess.

tg i need help. One of my players asked me about parrying and deflecting bullets and i have no idea how to go about it. Is there any rule i don't know about it or should i just homebrew something out of my ass? (was thinking (agi+rea)/2+weap skill roll or something along the lines of that).

>One of my players asked me about parrying and deflecting bullets
reflecting bullets back at people or what? if it's only blocking them it just sounds like full defence but fluffed up

No, he wants to use his weapon to parry and divert bullets to defend himself, don't think he wants to reflect em back to the enemy.

Yeah, security questions would be good too. As would making routine asensing part of your security, if you can afford it.

Clearly, relying on spotters to win the opposed check is utterly insufficient when it comes to keeping impersonators out, even against the barely competent and underprepared.

A custom quality that lets you use your weapon skill in place of willpower when you go on full defense.

so it just sounds like fluffed-up defending

either a rules change would be better than his normal defence (bad for game balance) or the same as his normal defence(bad for you, the GM because it's extra shit you need to remember)

just say that he parries the bullets instead of them missing/ him dodging and use the normal rules for defending

For ease of use i would go with a fancy new power/cyberware that lets you add Melee skill/2 to defense tests against ballistic attacks.

If you want to go full houserule i would go with something like this:
Saeder Krupp Ballistic Defense Wires
At best an "experimental" piece of ware, based around MBW technology, at worst stuff that will make you overconfident and get you killed.
The BDW is actually a new piece of tech that combines smartgun technology with Move-By-Wire tech. It attempts to predict incoming attacks and create a mental suggestion or tug that will bring anything the user holds between the bullet and his vitals.

Lets you perform a defense test as reaction with reaction+intuition+blade/club skill and costs 5 Initative.
Requires a weapon that is strong enough stop or change the path of a projectile.
Objects to weak may be destroyed.
Useless against flamethrowers.

Pic for reference

>For ease of use i would go with a fancy new power/cyberware that lets you add Melee skill/2 to defense tests against ballistic attacks.
we already have wired reflexes and combat sense for cyberware/ adept powers that aid defence
>Saeder Krupp Ballistic Defense Wires
this even sounds like wired reflexes

>we already have wired reflexes and combat sense for cyberware/ adept powers that aid defence
Yeah but the question was if there is anything that allows you to block bullets with a sharp/sturdy piece of metal.
And rules should support the narrative and vice versa.

>this even sounds like wired reflexes
Because it was supposed to ?
I even mentioned move by wire twice.

Aight thanks, i think i'll go with ballistic skill/2 given how fluff-wise his character is against any sort of modification or augmentation.

Weapon skill/2* FUCK

So he is an adept or mundane ?

Mundane, he's a tech-hating sammy.

No mundane is gonna be swirling bullets out of the air. Tell him no.

Well, that's not very cyberpunk.

So an edgelord (somebody with alot of edge) ?

Welcome to being absolutely ineffective in every conceivable way compared to somebody who gets even basic cybers. There are ways around it, but they basically all involve powered armor and abusing the rules of layering armor and encumbrance and such.

Basically, gear the fuck up with top of the line stuff. Get yourself smartlink goggles, or better yet, a helmet with a ton of capacity if you can swing it, go for the highest capacity gear you can find rather than the highest armor, layer on the goodies that way.

I'd advise going full blown Reinhart in fact.

And I take it back... the super customized power-armor route -could- possibly bring you on par with any razor or adept... you just gotta build it right.

Used to in-story, used to hunt the mafia till a year before the game started, now he helps people around. Don't think he'll go full on edge given he has taken Code of Honor and his character is about doing the right thing.

Edge has nothing to do with being a bastard or lacking honor. It's got to do with being LUCKY and if you want to swing this build, even if you do get the funds to go SPACE MARINE rather than "I didn't ask for this" you're gonna want to pump your edge up to the nth degree. Arguably as high as you can take it (Human+Lucky in 4e, not sure about 5e). The ability to drop +8 dice 8 times in a session is the ultimate leveler.

As someone who isn't particularly into Shadowrun, but played both DF and HK, I can say why I think DF is better.

HK has problems with pacing. The content is spread thinly over the course of the entire game, and there is just too much fucking writing that I sincerely didn't give a fuck about.
The writing in HK is also stylistically heavy, and, honestly, HK is way too fond of infodumps. DF handled its writing much, much better.

Most of the character development of your team in HK happens outside of the main storyline, as opposed to DF, and the HK characters aren't actually likeable unless you invest loads of time into exploring their backgrounds.
Like, seriously, the only person from my team that I actually liked in HK was Gaichu. That's fucking it. And Gaichu was fucking useless in any run that wasn't a smash-and-grab job, due to him being a ghoul.
Well, maybe also Racter - he's a good character, but I couldn't really relate to him without constantly being reminded that I'm speaking to high-functioning psycho.
In DF your team feels like a family. People are watching each others' backs and all that jazz. In HK your team feels like a bunch of strangers united by the unique circumstances, who just happen to live in the same boat.

HK's mission hub is way too big with its maze-like structure, and it's just unpleasant to navigate. Like, hell, I didn't enjoy visiting the clinic guy in DF because how far he was from everyone else, and in HK literally everyone is at that distance.
Also, everyone having their own room in HK made it a pain to make your rounds to talk with your team, not even mentioning the NPCs.

So even despite all the objective advantages HK has over DF (more missions, more character-related content, the changes in the main hub as you progress through the story and make your choices are more obvious and pronounced etc.), I still prefer DF.
DF just doesn't feel as drawn out as HK.

Oh sorry, i thought you meant edgy edge not stat edge. Well it's our first shadowrun game so i'm afraid neither of us thought about it. I'll talk with him and see what can be done.

>Well, maybe also Racter - he's a good character, but I couldn't really relate to him without constantly being reminded that I'm speaking to high-functioning psycho.
Ehn... that mattered less to me, cause while he lacked my moral basis he was still going to follow the rules of morality as most people understand them. He understood the concepts of loyalty and such, and I believe at least once in the extended cut he is given the opportunity to turn on you and doesn't for no other reason than 'because you've been there for me and this fucker just arrived'. He's alien, perfectly logical, creepy, but I'd honestly trust him with my life, cause I don't think he'd try to cyberzombie me either since I'm -not- a high functioning psychopath. I mean, I don't think I'd have him watch my -kids- (not unless I thought they were in serious danger) but that has less to directly do with him being a psychopath and putting them in danger and more because I'm not entirely sure he'd be able to make necessary value judgements about the situations involved... also there's no way in hell he'd be able to be convinced to leave the drone behind and that thing is on a hair trigger.

I'll agree with the HK Mission hub. Not so sure with the HK characters in general, I liked all of them for the most part. It helps when I remind myself that the orc shaman is something like 16, which helps explain away a lot of her stupidity to more tolerable levels.

Yeah if you two can allow it to happen, rebuilding for a high edge build might be the best way to go, and then buy the rest of the stuff later. I'm pretty sure attributes are more efficiently bought with BP than Karma... but not certain (again, 4e, not 5e talking here). If they're the same efficiency, just tell them they should invest into Edge with their karma as much as possible.

>not sure about 5e
same in 5e, but you can also take Revels in Murder and be one of the deadliest things in combat
>When a character with this quality uses a point of
>Edge as part of an offensive combat action against a tar-
>get and causes enough damage to send that target into
>physical overflow, the character immediately regains the
>spent point of Edge.
>To qualify, the target must be aware of the possibility
>of damage and not willing to receive it, and they must be
>a metahuman (human, ork, troll, elf, dwarf, or any asso-
>ciated metavariant). Critters, spirits, and the like do not
>count. In case of doubt as to whether a target counts or
>not, the gamemaster has final say.
get yourself 8 Edge, put some points into a weapons skill (e.g. Longarms), take a high damage weapon and just one-shot everyone around you

>130 hp

sheeeet

Should have tried to hack that little thing.

my rifle rigger is going to hit 131HP and my cybertroll went waaaaay over that

>seriously playing anything but Conjuring/Shotgun elf
Jazz + Haste IV = 5 Actions per turn.
Max Quickness and Shotgun = AoE-spread attack (if you shoot from further than 6 tiles) that crits every time.
Spend 3 points to get access to a Healing Totem to self-heal, or an Obedience Totem to control your Water Elemental to cast more Haste.
You can literally rip apart evey encounter in a single turn.

>Jazz + Haste IV = 5 Actions per turn.
casual
>Spend 3 points to get access to a Healing Totem to self-heal, or an Obedience Totem to control your Water Elemental to cast more Haste.
you're not even doing totems right, since you don't even know about elf glitch

you're not using wired reflexes, you're not using cyberware, and you're using an inferior weapons type

>using glitches
Also, >cyberware.
The advantages of such spells as
>Fog
>Shadow
>various Barriers
>Slow-Mo
outweigh the benefits of cyberware by a lot.

also in terms of converting AP into damage rigging is only comparable to spirit summoning

one drone can do like 64 noncritical damage per 1AP of its user's AP, a shotgun can do 20

also you're obviously not playing on hard
>using glitches
casual
>The advantages of such CONJURING spells outweigh the benefits of cyberware by a lot.
what difficulty are you playing on because you're wrong about everything

>Fog
I meant Blur, of course.

>what difficulty are you playing on
Hard, obviously.

>Hard, obviously.
and you're talking about hong kong?

Newfag here, I'd like to get into Shadowrun.

Where do I start?

DF, actually.

Look in the pastebin.

haste 4 got nerfed into the ground and cyberware is a lot better in hong kong

also shadow doesn't work like it did in the core game in dragonfall director's cut

wired reflexes give you 1 additional AP in hong kong and the rifles are better

even in dragonfall i prefer an ork shaman stacking body with the adrenal contractor

Develop a taste for the abstract sort of masochism that appreciates the pain of decrypting poorly formatted, half finished excel spreadsheets.

you should play hong kong man, it's pretty good

>glitching

Disgusting and unnecessary.

t. played through all games on the hardest respective available difficulty.
Some of them even multiple times.

I also usually went for Cyberware + Automatics + a bit of Charisma for the Totem

FullAuto best Auto

>Disgusting and unnecessary.
it's a glitch that has existed since the core game, PLAY TO WIN
>t. played through all games on the hardest respective available difficulty.
i played through dead man's switch as a melee weapons guy, don't talk to me about hardest difficulty setting
>Some of them even multiple times.
woah...
>I also usually went for Cyberware + Automatics + a bit of Charisma for the Totem
and you could have gotten the totem for free if you played as an elf

>play to win

I don't need to cheat/glitch to win.

neither do i

still lame

>You can literally rip apart evey encounter in a single turn.
wait what are you even talking about tipping apart every encounter with Haste IV lol

by the time you get Haste IV there's only like six encounters left
you two are the only guys that think that this cool thing i found is lame

i bet you don't even combine the autoloader arm with the panther assault cannon

Click the holster inna screen corner. You can voluntarily enter and leave combat (tho u can't leave if enemies are near)

5e is the most functional edition if you can battle through the horrendous editing and get to the meat of things. Magic is a bit OP game wise, but not quite running away with things like, say, DnD.

Magic is super important and takes center stage in the fluff though. It's less of a cyberpunk setting and more of a high fantasy setting that is about halfway through eating a cyberpunk setting as more and more mana pours into the world. I personally like that tone, but others don't. If this all sounds fine start with 5th core.

Older editions are generally more comprehensible, a little bit wartier once you do understand them, and less magicrun, at least in terms of tone. If you want stricter cyberpunk tone, better editing, and don't mind some kludginess then pester the thread until some oldfags who still like their older editions explain the perks of each to you in detail. I know there are some who hang around here.

All of the editions suffer somewhat from the march of technology. 4th edition was published 2 years before the first iphone, after all. You occasionally hit bits of "retro future" where something works how we used to imagine it working in the future but which now seems silly(pic related). Obviously, the older you go the worse this gets.

That's pretty hilarious, actually. Might have to try that as a build if I ever escape foreverDM status.