Golden Sun Tabletop 2.0

LINKS:
>2.0 Core Rules: docs.google.com/document/d/1LOJzZlP7BiT7IqMuyXK1wifbvUtKHuXhUDsKk4tHO3c/edit
>Character sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SOojefFIRym_LNpfCn0TOgWxprJNXBcNkIw7V5rn9XU/edit#gid=1142811022
>Class Sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A4No6_94mrDUGja75uQI3mD0om14MvNO95Y_XetGdtI/edit#gid=0
>Make a Custom Anything: docs.google.com/document/d/1c6F_SnivgEt-bdej0t5gdAP5zyKBM31o6-Be1ZI80Fo/edit
>Pregenned Psynergy: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MUqfz6GMhIm4Oti4kjlJynEJUsgJS2jkFBZR7yTDPVM/edit#gid=0

>Current step in development:
I'm shit at coming up with names, and need a bunch of themed ones for some replacement classes to fill in the gaps (list here):
pastebin.com/fc5PX6vH

>What the fuck is this?
Golden Sun vidya-to-tabletop-to-actually-playable-tabletop game at this point.

>This rule or mechanic is fucking retarded.
Cool, give me some ideas on how to fix it.

>This system is shit, use this other system instead!
No.

Mechanically, the system is fairly simple: your base archetype (warrior/caster/etc), djinn collection, class, and gear determines your dice pool (D6's) for whatever you're trying to do, and you roll against the opponent's dice pool or a difficulty scale if uncontested. For percentages like status effects and artifact activation, use a d20.

5's and 6's count as a success, 6's 'explode'/reroll for the chance at more successes. however many successes you have above the opponent's pool/difficulty scale determines whether you succeed and by how much.

your djinn (which will be on small cards to more easily keep track of them) confer the bulk of your stat bonuses as well as deciding your class, which grants it's own stat bonuses and shows you what psynergy (spells) you can use.
there will be a proper chart showing who can get what and how many djinn are required to do so so people don't need to look through every class every time someone gains or loses a djinn.

>TO-DO List:
- Currently lacking class-specific stat bonuses (which are kinda fucking important, I know), which I intend to rectify once I've got some names for the replacement classes (see "current step in development" in the OP). Converting the 1.0 classes wont be too hard, thankfully. may potentially be getting the axe in lieu of more free points as you level (to just build the stats you want, rather than fighting with the party over who has what djinn and who got stuff as a hermit while everyone else is a cadre of samurai for the sick stat increases)
- System currently lacks utility psynergy, and costs haven't been updated for the new PP system yet.
- Assist actions, knockback, and area weapon rules.
- Gotta do the boring data entry to make class sheet tabs for every class once I get the class repacements named.
- Make pregenned items (the ones anons made in the old thread archives are lost to time, far as I can find)
- Set up a proper XP/Money system (currently just working off of rules of thumb)
- Balance psynergy by class advancement (currently you get weird situations of leveling up only to get a worse psynergy than you already had)
- Consider adding other classes (such as item classes like acrobat)
- Consider adding other races (proxians, beastmen, lemurians, etc.)
- Balance those.
- Format and organize everything into a coherent reading order.
- Doll everything up into a PDF for easier reading and distribution.

as usual, any suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome (even from you, doomsayer-user), since the more mistakes pointed out the more i can correct and make a better system overall with.

added assist actions, knockback, and area weapon rules, so i can remove that from the to-do list pending y'alls thoughts.

I'm super interested in this, but I can't post effectively at the moment.
This looks pretty great.
Keep up the awesome work, my dude.

appreciated! give it a read when you've got the time, since i'll take all the suggestions i can get.

>Martial names for Pilgrim
Pilgrim -> Unsui -> Sohei - > Yamabushi -> Hachiman

going for the aescetic monk approach? i can dig it.

>Martial names for Ranger
Ranger -> Generalist -> Polymath -> Factotum -> Everyman

those seem a tad too generic next to the Slayer, Hullreaver, and so on.

I was thinking along the lines of "martial ranger is the do-everything guy", to the point where the class names reflect the generalization in skill becoming "Jack of All Trades, Master of Some"

i'm not sure that'd work, since they are the master of something: as a mercury/jupiter/mars class, they have access to a LOT of status inflict/removal and stat buffs/debuffs, so maybe that angle could work?

Ranger -> Trapper -> Saboteur -> Guerilla -> Mastermind

i like it.

>Martial names for Medium
Medium -> Channeler -> Invoker -> Vessel -> Avatar

>Caster names for Page/Apprentice
Page/Apprentice -> Illusionist -> Enchanter -> Hexer -> Warlock

>Caster names for Dragoon
Dragoon -> Crusader -> Templar -> Paladin -> Legend

>Caster names for Ninja
Ninja -> Wisp -> Shadow -> Specter -> Phantom

i dig it, added to the suggestions list.

warlock is taken by the vanilla/caster ranger, ironically.

these aren't particularly caster-y, and are very similar to the base ones (either for dragoon itself or the swordsman class)

added to the suggestion list

How about, for the Dragoon then:
Dragoon -> Paladin -> Sage -> Martyr -> Saint

sage and saint are already taken by other classes.

it also occurs to me that i dont have a proper list of classes/ranks available to the public yet, which i need to make, since it'd make this a lot easier.

It really would. Given Water/Fire/Earth would likely be offense/support, a Water/Fire/Earth caster would likely fit best with a religious theme, but most generic religious terms are taken by other classes.

thankfully ninja/dragoon/ranger/medium only need three names apiece, rather than the usual 5

Dragoon -> Martyr -> Ideal
Ranger -> Trapper -> Saboteur
Medium -> Invoker -> Vessel
Ninja -> Shadow -> Phantom

i was thinking (from your suggestions) something like
??? -> martyr -> ideal
trapper -> saboteur -> mastermind
channeler -> vessel -> avatar
wisp -> shadow -> phantom
since we're trying to replace the initial name as well.

Ah, yeah. Sounds like a good idea. For Martyr, you could start with Altruist.

nice.

Also, item classes included two of my favorite classes in TLA. Tying them to items isn't the best idea for a TTRPG, but treating them like other systems' prestige classes might (example - Dark Mage classline unlocked by studying undead enemies/cadavers and starting a spellbook/study journal)

item classes are on the later considerations bit of the to-do list, but i was thinking something as simple as "equip the accessory, bam you're the class"

having a djinn-free class (simply tied to the total number, rather than the number and element) like those is really helpful, since it lets you take any spares your teammates aren't using without worrying about getting an odd psynergy selection.

The problem is, if you make it tied to the item, it's entirely at GM discretion if you even have a chance to see the class. TTRPGs have to have ways for player agency to work.

while that's true, djinn acquisitions are also at the behest of the DM (since the current advancement chart has a suggested range). i should probably add a note on the chart as to when item-based classes should generally be made available when i get around to that on the list.

With Djinn being such a major gameplay component, having their appearance at GM whims is essentially the same as magical items/scrolls in D&D.

that is correct, yeah.

But having class items be at GM discretion would be the same as locking Shadowdancer/Eldritch Knight/etc. behind specific items.

i mean this isn't DnD, but if we want to keep the comparisons, yeah.
even in your own example of wanting to obtain it via study and such, exactly when your work reaches the point of unlocking the class is also completely up to the DM's discretion.

I was just expanding the analogy. And you could set rigid guidelines.

I could, yeah, but the whole point is to keep the system as open and customizable as i can.

i've been recently musing over the class system itself and how it interacts with base element+djinn elements to make it much more flexible (and easier to populate their psynergy lists).

...

>Keeps shilling his shitty homebrew
>Ignoring all of the feedback from last thread, focuses on names, of all things, instead

ah, doomsayer user! it's good to see you again.
in the previous thread ()
the only feedback i received was "burn it down and make it how i like it" from you, which i've said twice now that I'm not going to, and you're more than welcome to make a competing system more to your specific tastes than to waste time trying to get a 100% redo of this for you.
if you mean the thread before that (), there was just general support such as doing "god's work", "loved GS when i was younger", etc. and to note percentages with a d20 (which I have since done)

I'll be nice and repost the two softball questions for you, then, since you somehow managed to not see them last thread:

>What about d6 buckets screams "Golden Sun" to you?
>What about a bunch of shallow gridded sandbag combat screams "Golden Sun" to you?

Dragoon>Pally>Templar>Marshal>Crusader

dice pools are an easy concept for most/any players to grasp, and since this system is meant for the tabletop and not casual conversation, having proper explanations on how to interact with that semi-physical representation of the game world seems to be in order.

I do enjoy the criticism, but you're missing the constructive part: what alternative you suggest instead, and why would it work better?

That's a defense of the resolution mechanic itself, not why it's being used for your Golden Sun RPG. How does rolling 100 dice capture Golden Sun? How does shallow, shitty D&D combat capture Golden Sun?

it's being used for this golden sun RPG because it's simple and easy to grasp. for players, playing a game. also, for someone who previously got upset that I was playing too close to the source material, it's odd that you also get upset for not sticking to it enough.
I'm also not seeing your alternative, if you have something better to suggest.

for i forgot to add: in case you'd forgotten, naming the variant classes has been the "current stage in development" since the first thread since i started posting this almost a week ago (). it has always been the current focus, aside from addressing people's feedback (even yours, like better explaining the actual requirements to need to roll dice at all).

noted in the suggestions list, appreciated (though you only need 3 for dragoon/ninja/medium/ranger rather than 5).

I'm not giving an alternative because you still haven't answered the question. It's becoming clearer and clearer that this is just a slapped-together project without actual thought into what makes Golden Sun Golden Sun. You're just building a system and saying it's for Golden Sun, rather than considering what mechanics would bring a Golden Sun world to life. There's no point in continuing if you can't answer a question this simple.

I mean, just because you find my answer unacceptable doesn't mean I haven't answered. I've got the sneaking suspicion that any answer will be unacceptable.

but again: if you think this is a lost cause and somehow an insult for having the golden sun moniker, what do you think would work better? what would bring it to life and make it the game of your dreams?

You haven't answered my question. You've answered the question, "Why have you chosen this mechanic?", not "Why have you chosen this mechanic to represent Golden Sun?". Any answer that does not talk about how the mechanic represents Golden Sun is not answering the question.

I have chosen the mechanic to represent golden sun because it is simple and easy to grasp, this isn't rocket surgery my dude. the expanding pools as you gather djinn and change classes emulates the video games we're basing this on rather nicely, and explosions work well for critical effects. the d20 for artifact howls and status inflicting is also a fairly lifelike representation of it.
you do understand that you can't expect someone to make a both completely faithful system to the games, while also making a system that is designed solely with the tabletop medium in mind (which would be by definition stepping away from the video games). I'm going for a middle ground here.

I completely understand that you do not like that, and that's totally okay. and on the chance that you have no alternative suggestion and are simply trolling the thread, that's also totally okay, since you're bumping the thread for me and I appreciate that.

You stick to your question rather adamantly whilst missing the pointlessness of it. Golden Sun is a rather standard RPG in terms of combat, and the flavor is what makes it Golden Sun. Psynergy and the Djinn system (and it's interaction with classes) are represented in such a way it makes me feel like it's Golden Sun. The way the classes are named with the course of this thread also helps add to the feeling. You, however, are only bashing the OP whilst providing not a single way to actually make it represent Golden Sun more. The OP actually answered the part of your question that matters, since Golden Sun was always made by it's flavor mostly. The brunt of this will be in worldbuilding, not combat specifics.

...

...

this'll be the last bump of the evening (which I'm sure is good news to at least one person)

if nobody has any new name suggestions before tomorrow afternoonish, we'll decide between the suggested names and cross that off the to-do list.

I'll also continue musing over that possible class system overhaul i mentioned earlier--which would sorta completely obviate the need for this naming in the first place (sadly)--though might be a step too far away from golden sun proper, so we'll see how people aside from doomsayer user feel about it before any executive decisions are made.