Imagine a world where one in ten girls is born with necromancer powers...

Necromancy is openly disrespected as not being "real magic". Necromancers are paid less than any other magic user type, and studying it is considered to be a useless degree.

...

You'll probably get some angry /pol/tard replies.

>inb4 shitstorm erupts from angry disagreement with this, then angry disagreement with that, etc.

>Soon.

>mfw autists swarm to post talking about how THIS WILL REALLY PISS OFF THOSE /pol/TARDS before a single one even shows up

Why?, its accurate, women do insist on studying shitty oversaturated social science degrees

Social sciences like sociology and psychology were actually very well respected up to a few decades ago, right around the time many women began graduating from those departments in large numbers. Funny how female-dominated professions like nurse or schoolteacher always seem to be thought of as lesser somehow? In Russia, a majority of doctors are women, and by pure coincidence Russians tend to think very little of doctors and underpay them compared to other countries.

> In Russia, a majority of doctors are women, and by pure coincidence Russians tend to think very little of doctors and underpay them compared to other countries.

A lot of cosmonauts are men but they're treated like shit in Russia too.

Basically like our world, but witch hunts and burning people at the stake is a really serious thing.
I remember there was some outrage about two years ago over a novel book in which women randomly obtained electric-shock powers to use against men and the shenanigans that followed. I guess it would be like that, but with necromancy.
Goth subculture would be the most popular, with gangs of emo kids led by necromantic queens and shit.

>Funny how female-dominated professions like nurse or schoolteacher always seem to be thought of as lesser somehow
Nurses do have an easier job than doctors, and school teaching is a relatively easy job. Nurses and doctor wages in the public sector are relatively low but a lot of that is due to unrelated factors (in my country).

> and by pure coincidence Russians tend to think very little of doctors and underpay them compared to other countries.
No offense mate but this is pretty low on the list of Russias social problems.

I don't respect doctors because so many are incompetent gooks and pooinloos

I agree that in some cultures/nations you'll have a witch hunting dynamic where there are lots of accusations and burnings of both necromancers and non-necromancers. But, witches weren't provable in anything like the sense that OPs question sets out.

So you will almost certainly also have some countries that employ their necromancers and that's the more interesting one to look at IMO. Necromancy is such a force multiplier and there are so many ways a labor-intensive society can use it, you'd start to see huge shake-ups of social dynamics (and by that I don't mean purely that societies would be less sexist, if they were sexist in the first place - you'd see social stratification, changes in funeral practices, mortuary embellishments, etc, etc.)

For me this world is most interesting if it's historical, if OPs change happens at a given point in time, and if there is no other magic in the world.

One in ten girls is euthanized. Rogue necromancers and the people who help them are persecuted harshly. Nobody is going to put up with that shit

>nobody is going to put up with free workers and soldiers

>Social sciences like sociology and psychology were actually very well respected up to a few decades ago, right around the time many women began graduating from those departments in large numbers.

>graduating from those departments in large numbers.

> in large numbers.

> large numbers.

It's almost like having 20 million social scientists, gender studies and media studies grads acts to dilute the worth of those subjects in the workplace in some way

Man I tend to dismiss these sort of random accusations of sexism but I can't help but feel the reactions to OP of "kill em all" wouldn't be as present here if it was dudes that were necromancers.

Yes it would.

Cremation and interment in solid concrete/other dense substances becomes the norm. Wars are waged with weapons that tend to fully destroy the body. Actually using necromancy is highly regulated and ostracized and probably a serious war crime. Basically nothing really changes, just a few attacks every once in a while when somebody gets bullied and decides to unleash some zombie dogs or something on their school.

>nothing really changes
>5% of the population can literally raise the dead
In any pre-modern society this is a complete game changer.

Assuming there's some visible mark when someone is born with necromancy I'm pretty sure "kill them all" would be applied regardless. China is a pretty famous example.

A pretty famous example of women being able to raise the dead?

I probably have a grossly simple understanding of the situation, but as far as I know China's female infanticide is and was largely because women were less useful than men. You could only have 1 - or more, depending on your profession and where you lived - so it was better to have a son because more earning potential and prospects and because a daughter-in-law comes to live with you and will help look after you as your age.

But in the example in this thread, women are actually more useful. You don't need to worry about your farm or chores if skeletons can do them. So you have like a three tier where non-necromantic women < men < necromantic women if you're going by the Chinese example. Except just having necromancy probably hugely fucks with everything else anyway.

The tread here seems to be that necromancy is a big enough cultural taboo that it would not be exploited and prized. But that doesn't tend to hold out very long in the face of pragmatism and - again in China - killing female babies was still a *taboo* right? It just wasn't enough of one to stop people doing it out of a sense of what they needed to do.

Actually, of necromancy being outlawed and punishable by death. Necromacy was a subset of certain Taoist magical traditions, and those accused of it were often put to death summarily as it was an offense against the ancestors and the dead.

So these guys were real? They could in actuality, in our world, raise the dead? It's accepted historical fact?

Generally speaking necromancy in folklore is divination using the spirits or bodies of the dead, mostly the former.

Also there are a lot of imaginary things that people were executed for. Necromancer taoists, "witches" putting curses on people when they were just women with some sort of marketable skill, people claiming certain behaviors are against God, etc.

I don't think we're going to be able to look at this in the same way. My point is whatever is imagined is not really like OPs example because that is provably real. These women really can raise the dead.

And it's very likely that this will end up with a lot of death no matter how you look at it.

>as far as I know China's female infanticide is and was largely because women were less useful than men.
My point was that people are willing to kill babies regardless of their sex. Soldiers would smash infants against trees regardless of their sex during the Khmer Rouge, is that a better example for you?

In this case I would assume if there's a visible mark any female child bearing it would be killed, if not they would likely have very few freedoms just because they can't afford to let that 1 in 10 necromancer wander free unmonitored.

>But in the example in this thread, women are actually more useful. You don't need to worry about your farm or chores if skeletons can do them.
Then you have to ask what powers the skeleton, what enables them to follow directions. People would likely consider it to be a shard of someones soul and in turn find it blasphemous. By using skeleton labor you're preventing someone from moving on.

So in ancient society, I could see this being permitted against enemies as they also took slaves in that manner but it would be a capital offense to use it on your own countrymen.

Raising corpses is a voodoo thing

Because with this thread up it would be kind of shitty to make another thread with such a similar topic.

Would Veeky Forums play a fantasy game where only women could be spellcasters, or where men only had access to a handful of the less powerful options available to magicians?

Assume it isn't necessary for a PC to have magic to be competent, but a party without at least a couple casters is probably screwed.

True that.

I assume OP means modern fantasy necromancy which is everything under the umbrella, but if it's strictly speaking to spirits then fair enough.

You make like a huge assumption about everyone in the world's attitude to a risen skeleton there. A lot of cultures which have rituals for the dead essentially have malicious and benign necromancy, and I think the overwhelming pragmatism of being able to tap the dead for labor would move a lot of this into benign necromancy culturally.

You just need one nation that doesn't murder its infant necromancy to suddenly see the benefit, and that nation now has a huge edge over its competitors.

Sure, and the reverse.

>Would Veeky Forums play a fantasy game where only women could be spellcasters, or where men only had access to a handful of the less powerful options available to magicians?
I would have to ask why. If the reasoning is "just because", I would probably pass. If it was something like wheel of time where male casters are more powerful but far more uncommon (or in this case the inverse ) and utilize different aspects of magic maybe. The idea that one sex is fundamentally shittier at casting and has nothing to compensate for it doesn't really appeal to me.

>A lot of cultures which have rituals for the dead essentially have malicious and benign necromancy
Sure. In pretty much all of those cases I can think of they're applied to enemies, traitors etc. So as I said, I can see it being applied against prisoners and such much like how people utilized slave labor.

But even if they decide to utilize this resource, I still don't imagine they would let them run around unrestrained. Some organization to track casters is a common trope for a reason, like the Chantry in Dragon Age or the Mages Guild in Baldurs Gate because no one wants a loaded gun like that wandering around freely. Especially when they just don't fling fireballs, but can torture your spirit long after you die.

All depends on the specifics of necromancy, whether it truly does affect your soul and so on. But I agree in principle that these girls will be regulated, and where that ends up will be culturally different across nations too. So you might have some places where they're effective prisoners and other places where they're a privileged caste.

A lot more witch burning. Assuming this is actual bones, ichor, violation of the soul, and vile energy necromancy and not a faggy special snowflake variant.

>All depends on the specifics of necromancy, whether it truly does affect your soul and so on.
The only "good" necromancy I've seen essentially boils down to ancestor worship. I suppose this leaves room for world building, what with different heiresses of a family line trying to convince their ancestors to align with them instead of their cousin and the longer your family line the more "power" it has.

In other cases you have to ask what powers the skeleton labor though. Either someones soul is pinned down forcing it to go through the motions, or you steal a shard of their soul which is likely a destructive process. I can't imagine it going otherwise really.

>Either someones soul is pinned down forcing it to go through the motions, or you steal a shard of their soul which is likely a destructive process
Or it's just magic on the physical remains and the soul isn't involved.

Purge

>the soul isn't involved.
That's kind of the calling card of necromancy

>What would this world be like?
A lot of dead bitches I guess.

>Social sciences like sociology and psychology were actually very well respected up to a few decades ago
More like they were unknown till a decade ago, where then the common layman rightfully started mocking them for being useless much like what happened with art degrees, astrology, anthropology, and some other underwater basket weaving degree that use to be taken by no one but is now popular. Abstract degrees are "respected" with a inverse relation to how many people have those degrees. I'm sure having a English degree in the early 20th century was considered impressive. Now?

Well now one has to ask if it has nothing to do with it once being alive why can't it be applied to statues.

Are you saying it's sexism if other people accurately observe that women would be killed over this whereas men would not, i.e. exactly what you yourself just posted?

Does that make you also a sexist, or is there some magic exception?

It's more of a consequence analysis than OP could be arsed to do.

>Would Veeky Forums play a fantasy game where only women could be spellcasters, or where men only had access to a handful of the less powerful options available to magicians?
I would do this if and only if it also had realistic sex-based modifiers for physical stats and went out of its way to point out that these were based on reality.

>one in ten girls is born with necromancer powers

Why?

Because his fragile ego can't imagine a scenario where women are just better.

Setting where men are just straight up stronger than women? """Realistic""". Setting where women are just straight up more powerful than men? Triggered.

Yeah I think you really need to know more specifics to theorize with this one. But it's a fun concept to imagine IMO.

A bunch of uncontrolled undead fucking EVERYWHERE as every time 20 humans die the docile controlled workers/soldiers become mindless and hostile. Civilization would be torn asunder everywhere with these roaming hoards of death and people would be forced to gather around groupings of necromancers who they would simultaneously hate for making these horrors, yet need to keep them at bay.

It would be pretty bad I doubt populations could grow much before the amount of undead:amount of necromancers ratio becomes unsuitable and everything collapses again. Also the necromancers would be super popular among the boys and could have any man she wanted all the non necromancers would hate her for it :p

The richest 10% of men will get necromancer waifus and achieve immortality through undeath, creating a permanent oligarchy.

I played a fighter in 5e from a martial culture where only women showed any magical ability and so formed the leadership echelon (since stuff like being able to communicate across great distances instantly, foresee enemy movements and reshape battlefield naturally gives you more potential than a non-magical officer) of the armed forces. Because they were the generals of the army, they naturally went on to become the leaders of the state as well.

Every unit was a noble female caster-officer with a core of male martials under her command, my character was forced to flee after his officer was killed, because the martials were expected to die in defence of their officers, since the caster-officers were so much more valued, coming back alive without your caster was treated as evidence of treason/cowardice and punished by death.

I basically tried to imagine how a matriarchal society would be possible, without falling into clichés where it's benevolent and paradisical because women are so much more compassionate and sensible etc etc etc. This matriarchy was a military power ruled by a oligarchy of mage bloodlines backed by janissary-like soldiers taken from the non-magical populace and conquered peoples.

I think Bellum Maga is the setting you're looking for.

>anything that isn't my homebrew is a faggy snowflake

Its almost like if you're going to make gender a factor in a fantasy setting at all people will look for some sort of balance for some reason. So they can justify it being fair. Odd isn't it?

It is kind of odd, yeah.

>"I'm going to invert a fantasy concept so much that its only going to resemble the original concept in name only"
>"I'm very creative and trope savvy"
Just call it something else David.

Raising undead is already massively divorced from most mythological ideas of necromancy. Also calling it spirittalking or bonewalking or something is vastly more faggy than just calling it necromancy.

Hard Mode: Necromancy isn't DnD/Fantasy Necromancy, but the traditional Necromantic practices of the real world where you can talk to the dead and have to use fetishes and masks made from human skulls, not just stick a black gem into the mouth of a corpse and say some magic words.

Less of a major change then, but still a pretty major change because you can actually do it rather than just playing pretend. Also fun to think of regional variations in necromancy that will now be literally true.

A third of all 'witches' executed in the Medieval period were men. When you include heresy, devil worship and apostasy, men were far and away the most likely to be executed for similar crimes.

Necromancers would be persecuted regardless of gender. They're fucking necromancers.

In that case women would be spiritual leaders of mostly decentralized pagan ancestor worshiping tribes until some big dick monotheistic religion comes around and wipes them off the face of the earth for some contrived series of events.

Russian here.
EVERYONE is treated like shit in Russia.

To different degrees though e.g. being gay in Russia is much worse than not being gay in Russia.

Too little to go on.

The importance of people being necromancers depends on the power level of the necromancy (ranging from talking to ghosts tier to full skeleslave necropolis). The relative importance of necromancy also depends on the setting and whether there's other kinds of magic and the relative power level of those schools compared to necromancy and how common it is for people to be any good at them.

As far as the female-only aspect is concerned, it only matters if:
1) Necromancy is respected/feared
and
2) Magic is rare among males.

Name one system where men are stronger than women.

AD&D 2e

>Even death couldn't get you away from your wife
Truly the worst hell imaginable

Fuck her design still seems so off to me and I can't place on why. Maybe it's how tiny her head looks compared to the rest of her body? I don't know.

it's like you've never ever heard the -4STR meme

• First of all, same thing as magic in general. If magic is proheminant, powerful and can be used for warfare, it will be. Morality will be adapted to accept it. Technology will be developped to increase the magic user potential and to deal with enemy magic users.
• Necromancy will not be a taboo anymore.
• One in twenty is human is now a necromancer. If necromancy is powerful, expect specialized troops made to nullify their powers in case of conflict. Anti undead corps will be prevalant in any human vs human conflict.
• Gender roles will be mostly unaffected. Special girls will be sought after and probably conscripted.

i don't know why anybody who waxes on about "Reality" in a fantasy game is playing A FANTASY GAME.

Because the only scenarios I can imagine where someone would bother to deliberately make women better at magic in an RPG are:

>shit, we want to use realistic stats in this particular fantasy game but that leaves female PCs in the lurch, gotta compensate somehow

>MUH WOMYN POWR, LUL STUPID BOYS, FRAGILE MALE EGO THIS GAME ISN'T A PRODUCT OF FRAGILE EGO AT ALL THO

The first one's totally fair and understandable, so I'd be happy to play it. The second is only tolerable to put up with if you force the cryhard writer to admit reality and admit that this fantasy is, indeed, only a rage-fueled fantasy based on feelings of inferiority.

>women are usually conduits for life magic because of mystical vaginas

>Some are born mystically deformed

>For some this mean giving birth to monsters, others are merely infertile and therefore magically inert

>A rare few channel the inverse of life energy, instead becoming conduits for death magic

...

You can have it just because you want to have different gender dynamics without going full muh womyn power m8. Shit, even Forgotten Realms has Rashemen.

Funny how people always bring up the "free workers and soldiers" argument when it comes to (((necromancers))) raising feeble, rotted corpses but never when it comes to any respectable sort of wizard who can raise proper, sturdy, hygenic golems out of inorganic material. If (((necromancy))) doesn't involve stealing the souls of the dead, then why corpses instead of the six feet of soil above them, huh?!

That's why you need to know whether other magic exists or not m8, and to what extent. As well as to what extent the necromancy works.

Found the /pol/tard.

like pottery

Overrun with undead.

Ignoring your bait, usually most settings have necro labor be cheap, easy, fast and less efficient and construct labor be expensive, require more skilled labor on creation, and take a while but be extremely efficient on a long enough time time table. Necromancy is also usually more flexible about new orders.

If you need some shit moved from one side of the city to the other for a month or two to deal with a sudden increase in demand the necromancer is your dude. If you need shit moved across town on a set route for decades it's sort of a wash, but if you need someone to open a door for anyone of royal bloodline for the next ten thousand years you should definitely get some stone golems.

>the necromancer is your dude
I thought the entire point was that the necromancer is not a dude?

I meant in general, but "dude" is frequently gender neutral in spite of "dudette" existing.

Dubs checked.

That's already the case. But the 10% don't know they have these powers, nor how to use them properly.

"necromancy" wasnt even about raising the dead you fucking retard

Well, but why? Why are corpses cheap, easy, and fast to raise but constructs made of other stuff expensive, difficult, and slow? That's what I'm getting at. The only good reason beyond "they're pre-built" (which goes away if it's a violent death or after a bit of rot) is usually that it's fucking with souls or has some other shitty side-effects lurking.

Foucault happened

>wipes them off the face of the earth
>women
That's not how it works, Kronar.

>is usually that it's fucking with souls or has some other shitty side-effects lurking.
what if the reason is that they already are fit for an "Intelligence" (a guiding internal force capable of understanding and executing commands)
With a golem you are basically building with a Breadboard: Incredible flexibility in design, simple and easy to make.
A skeleton in contrast is a motherboard: Pretty much pre-designed, complex and hard to make (you need dead creatures with skeletons of useful size)

With both you then put in a "Intelligence", a processor, which "can" be a soul, but doesn't have to be.
In the Golem you need to make all the connections for it by hand, which gives you freedom in choosing the connections you want, but is also a long process
In the skeleton you just need one of similar size and just plug it in.