How would a fantasy setting based on the byzantine empire differ from the usual medieval fantasy setting?

...

Is this really a Byzantine soldier? My first thought was that it's a mercenary.

What quests would adventurers go on?
Political intrigue and monster hunting is a given
Border patrol?
Settling the mountainous valleys?
Privateering the sea?
Orthodox Crusade?

>Roman empire aestethic remnants + medieval metallurgy and armours
Nice

They enter the mysterious north to bring good word to the barbarians who sail riverways and other folk who don't

>so much romanum bling
>tfw when byzantines could have had nukes + Liberacci in 1866.
>this is the worst timeline ever!

>>tfw when byzantines could have had nukes + Liberacci in 1866.
No, they could not.

...

t. Ottoman boy-fucker

>richest city in the world
>ruled by mystics, everbody is obsessed with theological details and theories
>based on multiple older civilizations and traditions nobody else remembers anymore, combining both Roman and Greek traditions
>just on the border of culturally very different realms
>most important trading route in the world both by sea and by land with lots of exotic people and goods coming through
>if they can't defeat you, they will buy you off
>severe disagreements in their own factions about icons
>ruling families from the provinces now ruling the capitol city, clashing with the aristocracy

I actually plan to eventually DM a campaign based entirely on that

>bunch of faggots fighting in minor battles for centuries and then a bunch of rapist cockroaches come and kill/rape everything
this is already the premise of so many settings

Without the discovery of America (and the resulting wealth and excitement for innovation), science and technology would not have gotten the jump-start they had.

Theodora is cute! Cute!

huh, a missionary campaign.
Thats an interesting thought.
Oh the ways a party would try to convert the pagans.

Western style feudalism isn't a thing. The East Roman Empire had a somewhat centralized administration in which the emperor was truly the unquestioned ruler. Much moreso than in, for example, pre-Philippe Auguste France, where the vassals of the king routinely told him to fuck off (1066 is still in the Top 10 pranks gone too far). Also, according to this book called "the Byzantine Republic", the popularity of the emperor and how much he managed to please the masses also played a big role.

It was pretty much the Roman Empire, but medieval: competent administration, pretty decently functional military (though far from its heyday under Caesar) and the emperor at least pretended to have some kind of popular sovereignity. But at the same time he was also the head of the Orthodox Church and divinely ordained? It's weird. Romans are weird, even when they're actually Greek.

Also FUCK MUSLIMS FUCK MUSLIMS 1453 WORST DAY OF MY LIFE REMOVE KEBAB FROM THE PREMISES BASILEUS + MUSCOVY + ARMENIA + AEGYPTOS + ITALIA + FRANCIA = DEAD KEBAB MY LEVANTINE BROTHERS CAN COME LIVE WITH US THEY CAN LIVE IN ZOO AHAHAHAHAHA I SPIT IN KEBAB'S EYE OF MOTHER'S HEART REMOVE KEBAB CATULLUS STILL ALIVE IN SMYRNA HE MAKES MUCH GOLD WITH FAST POEMS MANY POEMS REMOVE KEBAB

Someday brother. Someday.

Pronoia was a thing

A lot more castration.

That and the Theme system which came even earlier.

True but there's a big difference when you compare that system to feudalism. Feudal titles were, under most circumstances, hereditary and could only be retracted by the monarch under very specific circumstances. If certainlands belonged to you, they belonged to you, your children et cetera. It was your personal possession (which is why in early feudalism these holdings were often split among all eligible heirs). A pronoia was usually granted for a limited time, could be revoked at will and even if it lasted a lifetime upon the death of the holder this authority returned to the emperor. Vassals had a certain right the monarch was forced to uphold, while the emperor of the Romans delegated his power.

I'll admit I don't know a lot about Themes, but wasn't that system more or less like that of the provinces of the old Republic/early Empire, where governors more or less ran the show but were still very much subject to the emperor's authority?

Blind and castrate rivals.

OP asked for stuff that's different from the usual. Why are you describing TES?

i was the user bitching about having dragons on byzantine campaign I've asked the gm to do.

No we have an alliance with one and we burned the bulgarians until they run back across the north of the danube.

we are playing during Basil the first reign

Wasn't feudal at all.

It wasn't a 'here have land and be my vassal', it was more a 'Okay, here's some land to manage and extract troops/money from for the Emperor, this will also pay your wage. It does not belong to you, nor will it pass on to your kids. It's merely that you're administrating it in the Emperor's name.'

It doesn't become feudal till the Byzantines recover the City from the Latin Empire (since the latins burnt down most of the greek administration and installed latin (shitter) versions)

ethiopia is also a fun place to play as a messalian

That's not feudal either. That's just how its organised. (e.g. Each area focusing on supplying itself and its miltias).

Ostrogorsky go home, you're outdated.

Don't forget that mercs (e.g. the PCs) are far more useful and loyal than native troops since:
>native troops are miltia and shitty
>natives are loyal to their officer
>mercs are professionals
>mercs are loyal to the paymaster (The Emperor)
>need less mercs to do the same work as natives

What's going on in that picture, and why is it used in concert with a quote about righteous indignation?

Accurate as fuck Desu

Hehe, good one.

>implying there is a difference in the era

>>mercs are loyal to the paymaster (The Emperor)
Only for as long as he pays them.

Dubious and dependent on how this timeline rolls. The entire point about finding a Western trade route was bypassing the Ottomans. If the Byzzies somehow managed to reclaim their old lands (or at least a significant portion of it), they'd probably be rich enough to kickstart their own "renaissance". They had the Greek philosophy foundation to do it, and in fact to a large degree Byzantine refugees contributed to the Renaissance.

Byzantium with mythological creature > Normal Byzantium > Fantasy version of Byzantium > Western Europe with mythological creatures > Western europe > fantasy adventure land

>No harpies acting as messengers for the Emperor
>No centaurs brought down from the steppes by the Penechings
>No mermaids used to harass Norman invasion fleets

why tho

I am american and you sound like an asshole

The Emperor is extremely good at paying mercs.
If there is one thing the Emperor (till the late 1190s onwards when it all goes to shit) is good at?

It's paying mercs.

>>mercs are professionals
>>mercs are loyal to the paymaster (The Emperor)
Nah, it's because unlike natives mercs have no ties and friends in the region they work. If they fail their master they have nowhere to run and nobody will save their asses. Hence why there were so many famous foreign mercenary and bodyguard groups and why any of them which got time to take roots became cowardly, corrupt and inefficient.

>driving the Bulgars out

Doing god's work

>spoilers
At first my sides, but then my feels.

I'm not an American, and the post does not imply anything great about the USA.

It's both, really.
1)Mercs just wanna get paid
2)Mercs are professionals/skilled (thus why they are hired)
3)Mercs have no contacts.

The lack of contacts is kinda ~more~ the reason why Eunuchs, 'specially Armenian ones, are used. Lack connections and can't spawn a dynasty.

The power struggle between the eastern landed magnate warlords and the urban imperial aristocracy is an interesting dynamic.

There's actually little to no proof that Heraclius invented the themes. The only "source" for the claim is that a much later chronicler used the term when writing about Heraclius. Is just as likely that the chronicler just used a contemporary term that most people knew.

>What's going on in that picture
French idea of "surprise" sacking of Antwerp.

>why is it used in concert with a quote about righteous indignation?
Twitter fags work in mysterious ways.

>Muh golden spurs
As far as overrated medieval battles go, this is literally worse than Agincourt because at least the English came close to winning the war.

Heh

It's fucking great, the Basileus even gave us some lands in the new frontier

Mercs were skilled warriors first and foremost, no doubt about that. I quoted it by accident.

That only means they were invented in 650s rather than 610s. Still centuries older than pronoia.

Not really. At best you could say that there is some evidence of a theme system in the early 700s but only in the late 700s you get proof of an established theme system (a geographical region and its armed theme forces)

Theodora is for swans to peck grains from her pussy.

t.Procopius

>centaur catapract bowmen

why

Is not gondor based on the east romans?

The system as a whole was probably established in the late 7th or early 8th century, but individual themes were first mentioned (legitimately mentioned, as opposed to writers using the word retroactively) in 667 and likely established sometimes earlier in Constans II's reign.

Only loosely. Gondor takes its inspiration from many sources, including Egyptians and Jews.

On the other hand, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_beacon_system

So how did the Varangian Guard actually work? I know those cheeky norsemen liked to grafitti all over the place á la Kilroy Was Here, but what was their dealio? How did they fit into the dynamics of Constantinople and the empire?

The helmet makes him look like Judge Dredd.

Thematically Gondor might occupy a similar place as Constantinople did, but let's not get carried away with looking for historical allegories for Tolkien's work. Good but declining kingdom beset by dark forces from cardinal direction is not unique in history or myth.

Also let's focus on the poor byzzies for once.

>>if they can't defeat you, they will buy you off
What are you saying, Constantinople is Ankh-Morpork?

Why does he have a tulwar?

They were the emperor guard and their status as foreigners made them unable to be parts of plots against the Emperor.

They also fucked the pechenegs up

>Guard the Emperor
>Fight alongside the Emperor
>Protect a new emperor if the old one dies
>get to take pay from the treasury
>give 0 fucks about noble politics

Ankh Morpork doesn't buy you off. It demands you pay your debts or give back the weapons. And if you still insist on attacking, they open their city gates and let your army in, only to rob them blind.
(or, you know, they send their police to arrest you and your army for "behavior likely to cause a breach of the peace")

What would that armour even look like? Google doesn't help

>behavior likely to cause a breach of the peace
Also
>Conspiracy to cause an affray
>going equipped to commit a crime
>obstruction
>threatening behavior
>loitering with intent
>loitering WITHIN tent
>traveling for the purposes of committing a crime
>malicious lingering and carrying concealed weapons

It's a dangerous place. Eastern hordes of orcs, goblins, centaurs, and nomadic bands of humans. To the west lays several different kinds of elves who fight and kill each other while centaurs settled in a nearby basin. Even further are the dwarven petty kingdoms that were settled by the various dwarven clans after toppling the Western Empire. Humans still reside among many, filling out the rich lands while the dwarves lord over from mountain holds. In the former center of the world lays several enclaves of independent humans intermixed with a variety of gnomish mercantile guilds. Sand elves across the sea raid and even settled the southern isles. Far to the west, tales of men fighting against orcish conquerors in an epic struggle reach the Emperor's court while to the north on more desolate seas, trolls and more cold-inclined orcs continue to plague the men who eke out existence.

The northern orcs and trolls aren't particularly friendly to those that reside in the warmer regions and eagerly accept coin and serve loyally so long as their purses are filled, making them excellent as the Emperor's personal guard. The various elf people to the north of the Empire ally when it suits the purpose of bringing low a rival, while the centaurs raid and build their own kingdom to the north. To the east, Orcish warlords claim to be the chosen of their own God, warring with each other to claim the mantle of leadership. The dwarfs established themselves as a successor to the former Western Empire, forming states that often are overtaken by a rival warlord. Though one seems to have finally found success. The gnomish guilds dominate those few enclaves of humanity outside of the Empire, while the northern isles are beset by raiders that never seem to cease and make life hard.

Make it a campaign where the PCs are fighting political intrigue and offer them a chance at generalship to reclaim the West, defeat the barbaric hordes, and tame the wilds of the North.

Which is exactly they worked so well.

I wholeheartedly support the idea of scandinavian trolls, and the emperor of fantasy byzantium having a personal guard of them.

They're such a great part of nordic folklore.

>Impossibly wealthy and ancient, containing knowledge lost to the rest of the world
>Use ships armed with lion shaped flamethrowers
>Attack enemies with hand grenades
>Use beacons to transmit messages across the empire
>Emperor sits in a clock punk throne room, on a levitating throne and with mechanical animals that roar on command surrounding him

The ERE pretty much was a fantasy setting already.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_mutilation_in_Byzantine_culture
byzantinemilitary.blogspot.no/2015/10/political-castration-and-mutilation-in.html

Don't forget
>being an innocent bystander, just for the rarity value

>pictured: Empress Zoe with her guards

Then why we didn't make a campaign of it yet?

What would we call it? The Complex Empire? The Labyrinthine Empire?

What would be the goal of it?

The Empire.

Boring.

Missionary work?
Bringing stability to the realm by casting out foreign interference?
Helping a noble press his claim?
Dealing with rebellions?
Killing fantasy muslims?
Mediterranean see adventure?
Re-discovery of old greek mythos things like temples, artifacts, monster civs?

The Exciting Empire [not boring].

The Lame Empire

The Union of Peaks and Isles. UPI, often just called the union.

The Daedalic Empire.

Reconquer some lost lands, not all of them that's for later campaigns

>Dealing with rebellions?
This one first

>Killing fantasy muslims?
This one we do when we track back the rebel taking refuge with the mohammedians

>Missionary work?
Did Byzantines proselytize? Or do you mean stomping out heretics?

They proselytized like fuck, man.

>unable
*less likely.

Still, the theme of taking outsiders to be your closest guards is very common. Suleiman was guarded by Christians, and during the French revolutions it was the Swiss, not Frenchmen, who were fighting to the last man in the name of the king. Outsiders, especially ones that are part of marginized minorities (like Christians and Jews in Islamic lands), are dependent on you for their wellbeing. They can't just bank on riding just any wave of opportunity because you're their ticket to the soft and easy life. If you fall, it's back to the slums for them. Or in the case of the French Revolution, a bunch of angry peasants have no reason to give a fuck about some phony Krauts.

Mainly for the northerns (Rus)

>Mediterranean see adventure?
Oh, I have an old module just for that. It's pretty high level though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cap_Bon_(468)

Who would win?
>The entire naval forces of the greatest empire ever known to man
>Some beardy bois

So, Gondor?