What qualities did the Thunder Warriors have that made them unfit to continue the Great Crusade?

The Emperor was a more charismatic Perturabo

>Thunder Warriors are only good for fighting
Then put them in the same role as the War Hounds

>The Emperor
>charismatic
He’s basically Autism Prime.

>What qualities did the Thunder Warriors have that made them unfit to continue the Great Crusade?
They weren't Space Marines.
>How do Thunder Warriors compare to 30k or 40k marines?
They're not Space Marines.

Pretty sure Emps is Chris-Chan.

Yes because anyone with the will and resolve enough to become a fucking thunder warrior will just lay down on a farm and count his fucking pension. They will either miss the purpose, or they will get fuck-angry-mad about the fact that they are slowly dying and bam, now you have an insurgency that's man-for-man better than your new replacements.

Them knowing something they shouldn't have sounds more poetic, I'll agree. But the truth is that hypno-induction is what makes a space marine a space marine; without that they're a disaster waiting to happen, see Soul Drinkers, or I don't know, the entire Horus fucking Heresy.

Astartes are functionally immortal. They can go on fighting forever as long as they get nutrition paste and ammo. Thunder warriors have an expiry date after which they develop cancers that kill them.
Also, space marines have a built in gene recycling apparatus which means that there is no need to reconstruct the emperor's huge-ass gene lab in like 50000 places all over the galaxy

>All things that could have been corrected with gene modding
Yes, and that gene modding was the space marines. That the individual thunder warriors were killed is beyond the point.

Lack of immortality

>Or maybe Emperor was just a colossal arsehole who habitually disposed of people he had not further use for.
Considering the recent books shows he planned to do the same to the SM, it's likely.

They were not ultramarines.

What if the thing they "knew too much" of is that the All-Loving, All-Protecting Emperor is a gigantic asshole that treats people as nothing more than tools? Who today even knows that fact aside from the Primarchs and I guess the Custodes?

I'd say the Chaos cult knows that too, but they thing the Emperor is dead.

think*

Or dying. They have to have some explanation when they are hit by a bolt of Holy imperial magic/warp power.

Don't holy saints and ecclesial stuff feel different than chaos and regular psykers?

What I'm saying is that with gene modding, they could have possibly upgraded the Thunder Warriors like upgrading to Primaris. Or just bring in the new guys & have the veterans teach them or at least stay until they are fully phased out. There is no reason not to keep them until they are used up.

These questions are stupid and don't deserve a thread. You could literally Google the answers and anyone that knows anything about TW would already have known the answer.

The reason is that the Emperor's an asshole who thinks everyone's a tool to be used and discarded which sort of makes you wonder if he really does have humanity's best interests at heart...

Nice try Tzeentch

>destroying chaos
>not serving the destiny of man

Or space wolves

This. But instead of killing 10% of his soldiers he would kill 90.

you know how the emperor took all the traits that made a warrior great and X them by a thousand to make a space marine? he forgot to filter out autism with thunder warriors

They were ALL hyper-aggressive and had limited lifespan, it'd be like having 20 legions of World Eaters/Pre-Russ Space Wolves and while the Emperor wanted to have someone capable of enacting Exterminatus with an axe he did not want 20 of them.

Waste of time. Thunder warriors where a tool made for exactly one (1) purpose. To conquer terra. Big Daddy E didn't need them to be immortal, clever or all that stable. They where made quick and dirty because they only had one role and could be done better once he had the time and resources to. Upgrading or "fixing" them was likely more trouble then it was worth considering the technical limitations for proto power armor and the lack of extensive genetic fuckery.

No, Emps needed an army that was so overwhelmingly strong that literally nothing on the planet could stop him and would fear to rebel.

Not a asshole. This is new canon and therefore not canon

Why not fuck them off to Mars or send them into the first handy meat grinder battle as a vanguard to the Astartes?

That and they're described as not very good at stuff like watch duty or protracted seiges. Plus as the wars of unity expanded the Emperor gained access to better technology. The space marines were the better replacement. The thunder warriors were given a last battle, they weren't meant to survive. The custodes in MoM wonder if the taint in the world eaters is the same taint that the Emperor saw in the Thunder Warriors

That would include putting them onto interstellar space ships and sending them beyond the Emperor's direct supervision.

Just ask Arik, he's still around somewhere.

Emps never had time to play babysitter to begin with. He could have at least thrown them at a problem instead of just killing them all off.

The Emperor doesn't care about anything except his vague 'idea' of the future of humanity exactly as he wishes it. Just look at what his Empire does to every human civilization that doesn't agree exactly with them, such as the Interex or Disaporex.

Of course the Emperor would just have them all killed off. He can't think of any other way to deal with shit. He was/is planning to kill off all his 'sons' too, once their usefulness is over.

Much tougher than regular marines(although without any of the organs/gifts like acid spitting etc.) as each manged to take down around 13 regular world eaters during one post unification battle.

Psychically protected to a massive extent, telepathy did not work on them in outcast dead.

Seemingly different indoctrination than marines(I suspect that the process cold/was used on adult warriors and not pubescent children).

Actually marines arent functionaly immortal, just look at the iron warrior that got aged 3000 yearsby the hrud, fucker was a dead man walking.

The Emperor should have put them in stasis units, load them on drop pods and fire them at his enemies. That's what the assassins do with their berserkers.

Source? Genuinely curious.

Pretty sure he straight up tells Rowboat that his sons were nothing but tools to be eventually discarded. Granted, he's has 10 millenia of being a skeleton, can't be good for his psyche.

has had*

>Better for the Imperium to have burned in the fire of Horus's amibitions than to see it have fallen so far from...
>You know what, you can fuck right off the edge of my long-lost dick Rouboute. I have been a fucking undying corpse for 10,000 goddamn years, and you think you're the one who has the right to be upset here?

So then doesn't that leave us with the conclusion that the Space Marines are the real problem in the galaxy?

I agree, at least in the newer lore emps is autistic to the point that he views everything as a means to an end, and really cares nothing for any human but humanity as a whole. Everything is just a tool to progress humanity, when the use is over, the tool is cast away

people forget robbie immediately changed his mind and ended that little introspection with "Fuck it, things could be a hell of a lot worse. I can fix this"

Most lmao

Please to being apologists for space Hitler. Girlyman says that the Emperor lost all ability to hide and mask the truth. Girly truly saw what was in the Emperor's mind and he saw that the Emperor saw him as just a tool.

Girlyman was bitter but in the end he was like "Don't I see the P-marines in the same way the Emperor sees me? They think of me as their father while I think of them as nothing but tools to secure humanity's future".

The difference is Girlyman outwardly shows compassion for his fellow man.

That it no way negates Big E bitching at him, if anything it reinforces Rowboat's need to stop griping.

They were too human to be superhuman

The Emperor is Literally crazy. He casted out all of his love and compassion to kill his thrice damned son. If he really wanted God hood he could have done so without the whole stuck in a corpse thing. How many cases of the Interex or the like? How many cases of enslavement or extermination? Better 1 innocent die than 99 damned go free

I always loved the explanation that the Emperor is coming off as a humongous asshole because he is just THAT much above the scale a normal human operates. He is constantly thinking about plans and plots laid out thousands of years in the future, an eternal chess game with similarly inhumanly powerful entitites and coming up with counter-counter-counter-counter-countermoves so he will always seem distant to a normal human. On this scale emotions are not allowed to interfere so everything and everyone will seem like a pointlessly trivial point of data, a tool or a possibility superposition to him in an eternal 11dimension warp-chess game.

He would love to sit down, crack open a cold beer and ask personally YOU how was your day and maybe give some tips about your sex life and your asshole boss but he is too busy coming up with a way to deal with a tzeentchian plot 4 thousand years in the future.

>I could have spoken at any point during the past 10.000 years but I didnt as a joke!

Why the fuck he adressed only Girlyman? Why couldnt he just communicate with a psyker or something? Just get Varro Tigurius or Mephiston or someone in there to serve as his mouthpiece and start unfucking the imperium.

I mean, they're kind of more 99 innocents burned rather than one damned go free though, aren't they? If you put a foot out of line here come the astartes to burn your planet. If you disagree with the Emperor's Vision same thing. The Emperor is not a leader, he's not an educator, he's not a father to his people, even at the best of times he was an autocrat who might have been doing the best thing for humanity, but not because he cared about the actual people.

You do know that there are other things besides agricultural work that they could do?

He is the Emperor of Mankind user. Not individuals, not concepts, not nations, not hurt feelings but the entirety of mankind. And of fucking course he is an autocrat, he is a motherfucking EMPEROR.

>doesnt give a fuck about his sons or marines
>literally had Horus beat him stupid before he could muster the will to kill him

something doesnt compture here

user, what could they possibly teach that hypno-indoctrination couldn’t? They didn’t have a purpose after Terra was conquered.

Put it this way: Cheap, Fast, Good Condition. Thunder Warriors were the former two. Suitable for a quick and dirty campaign to conquer a planet, but not suitable for a centuries-long crusade to conquer the galaxy.

He wasn’t planning on killing his sons off. There’s plenty of hints that he had other plans for them. Vulkan being the human one trusted with the doomsday scenario (and for creating new tech etc.), Magnus for powering the Throne, and so on. And those palaces e built for them on Terra, to be used after the Crusade was done.

But also short lived.

Emps could have given them some measure of reward for their loyal service to show that he gives a shit about those who have served him. It would alleviate the anxieties of the Space Marines currently serving him if nothing else.

Also it wouldn't be a problem for long.

Same with Angron's friends. Emps could have had the most loyal bodyguard Primarch, instead he chose go ferment resentment.

>The difference is Girlyman outwardly shows compassion for his fellow man.
So did the Emperor though? Bobby G says it himself, that the Emperor has in the past cloaked his actions with compassion, and that he is doing exactly what his father did.

How much loyalty would the butcher's nails really allow though?

The Emperor should have just put Angron out of his misery once he realised the Nails couldn’t be removed. I’ll maintain that it was that, rather than not helping Angron’s failed rebellion, that was his mistake.

>Magnus for powering the Throne

No one was needed to power the Throne till Magnus broke it with his psychic REEEEEEE.

This. Why the Grand Crusade was in such a hurry that you couldnt allow Angrons butt buddies to come along? Why not give Perturabo some shore leave so he could build stuff like he wanted? Just give the slightest of shit about your impossibly powerful top general lords of war made in your own image?

>Just get Varro Tigurius or Mephiston or someone in there to serve as his mouthpiece
user, do you remember what happened the last time someone so much as claimed that?

I'd suggest he did and that guy is 'Sebastian Thor' but Thor's large history Not Being A Prick makes that unlikely.

>Even the podium has a tube going though it.

>ay!
>ay!!
>AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!
>YEAH IN HERE, HIGH COUNCIL GET THE FUCK IN HERE
>MOVE THIS FUCKING SWORD OFF MY LAP
>WHAT THE FUCK YOU STARIN AT
>ALRIGHT LEMME TELL-
>THE FUCK, STOP SCREAMING
>LEMME TELL YA-
>I SAID STOP SCREAMING
>STOP CRYING TOO
>SO LEMME TELL YA ABOUT-
>STOP BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS, FOR FUCKS SAKE, WE COOL ALRIGHT?
>LEMME TELL YA WHAT TO DO, FIRST YOU-
>FOR FUCKS SAKE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, I TAKE A NAP OF 10.000 YEARS AND YOU GO ALL SPACE NAZI
>AYYYYY GIRLY-MAN WASSUP

You need to understand user, do you recycle and make new tissues out of the old ones? Thunder warriors really are one use, one job and a limited shelf life. Sure you could throw them away, or ship that many more SM's instead. TW's where paper plates, useful for their job and then disposable. At their most basic they're still mostly human and even during the unification the emperor was willing to spend the coin of human life to achieve his ends

That would have required Emperor to not be a dick and consider not only the feelings of another but that others even had feelings.

Ever other perpetual who met Emps didn't like him and every mortal that saw through the illusion didn't like what they saw.

>Ever other perpetual who met Emps didn't like him and every mortal that saw through the illusion didn't like what they saw.

I'd chalk that up to either jellymad or shitty/inconsistent writing. I really hate the concept of perpetuals, especially that cunt spouting memes so I might be slightly biased.

I really hate how they tried to grimdark the Emperor up with stupid shit like this. I thought the grimdark came from that he is a fundamentally decent if unapproachable big daddy who made mistakes, but now that he is suddenly coming back he needs to be retconned into yet another asshole just to keep the grimdark coming.

I also really, really fucking dont get what was the point of him talking with Rowboat. Like literally, what was the fucking point. It would have been so much more poignant to have him muse a bit in the presence of his undead father, coming to terms with his humanity and picking up the Emperors sword with a promise "I will bring it back by the time you wake up" instead of revealing yeah nah, he could have led the Imperium even in this state but he was busy chilling and becoming a warp god.

The power of bad writing and cramming daddy issues into said writing should be considered a hate crime.

Also HH books are a mistake, they added nothing of value and destroy a lot of setting.

The Board Is Set short story sheds some light into Big E's plans.
Think essentially a chess game between Malcador and Emps.
>Malcador goes for a checkmate (representing Horus in their game)
>Emps just says that he actually wins next turn
>The piece representing Emps turns golden
He wanted to become a god. His win condition is dying and becoming a god.

Hello ADB, i hope you had a nice Christmas

No, in that story Emperor reveals Guilliman is the true savior.

I call bullshit, he can blow up stars, hold up a warp rift but he can't use biomancy while yanking that shit? Also, he pretty much was creating a gateway to the webway, this always stuck me as a lie.

>meme-spouting perpetual

What the fuck? Please elaborate.

>Being this wrong

>Some savage backwater slavers stick some mechanical doodad in Angron's brain
>"Wow, there's no way I can take this out with my hyper advanced technology or immeasurable psychic powers. Better just give him a legion and call it a day."

It wasn't just a doodad stuck in his head. They actually cut large parts of his brain out and replaced it with DARK AGE cybernetics. Dark age tech was crazy already and primarch parts are difficult for even emps to replace. He might have been able to grow the brain back but angron would never be a true primarch after the nails.

The Emperor’s win condition became godhood because other avenues were closing. It didn’t start that way, hence him explicitly denying godhood. Why deny it if he’d just have to change everything again later, for a long-term planner?

1d4chan.org/wiki/Perpetual

Choose any one of them except Vulkan

Emperor was never going to become a god, his whole idea was to buy time for Roboute to save his ass. Both during the Heresy and during the overall time of the Imperium.

Wait, why the Emperor needed Roboute to save shit? Couldn't he use his warp powers to destroy the chaos fleet?

He effectively is a god though. Right now.

Because his powers can't do that. He couldn't even use his warp powers to defeat the daemon army which threw him and his custodes and sisters of silence from the webway. The Board is Set is all about buying time for the Saviour piece (Guilliman) as is the Heresy.

>maybe get down on the planet, psychically interrogate a few of their leaders and scientists where they got the nails from and how do they work and about the implantation process
>good thing I'm also an expert of dark age scince, being the foremost scientist of mankind and everything
>also nice to have a continent sized lab back on terra
>hmm, should I give it a shred of effort and a year or two of time to unfuck a primach who could be a great general or something, or atleast counter or lessen the effects of the nails?
>or at the very least teleport his buddies up here with me? its not like they will matter much on the long run
>nah, bring him up, fuck everything

Good lord the writing makes the emprah look like an absolute, uncaring idiot. At the very least he could have stuck Angron together with Russ so atleast he has someone he could respect or emulate. Or let your god tier sorcerer son use sorcery, seeing youre an embodiment of psykers and everything. Or let the Word Bearers do the thing after you have already exempted the Mechanicus from the Imperial Truth.

Not just Guilliman, but everybody on the other side of the Ruinstorm.

Well fuck, I thought he had powers to blow suns and shit, since Malcador pretty much hid a planet.
>Mechanicus from the Imperial Truth.
This
Not sure why he spared them, he could've removed them with his psychic powers, I can at least accept that he needed the factories that aready built on mars, but he allowed a religion to grow.

Malcador's planet hiding involves details we don't know, probably used all sorts of accessories.

The Nails were passed down from the original creators and modifiers. And while the Emperor was the foremost scientist of the Imperium, he wasn’t omnidisciplinary. He seems to primarily focus on genetics, chemistry, biology, and so on. Sure, he had a lot of experience in other areas, but he didn’t know what the Nails were at first, they weren’t something he had encountered before. He had to get a tech-archaeologist (Arkhan Land) to confirm what he had hypothesised after studying Angron, and even then that only gave him the basic understanding of what the Nails did, nothing on how to get them out without killing Angron, let alone safely.

Make no mistake, the Nails were far more hardcore than anybody’d have thought.

This. So much this.

Did the OP offend your fragile sensibility? Drop dead, user!

>These questions are stupid and don't deserve a thread. You could literally Google the answers and anyone that knows anything about TW would already have known the answer.

And, by the way, you're a fucking moron, by that logic. Everything can be googled, even your moronic nature. But here we are, discussing it anyway...

That's why I hate the new lore.

Damn, is it really that hard to create characters that aren't braindead retards?

ACTUALLY that's a pulpit, not a podium.

> He seems to primarily focus on genetics, chemistry, biology,

Its not like those EXACT fields would come handy in healing Angron or devising a cure. Science is not magic, he could easily analyze how they cause rage, how Angron is managing to keep control and help him stay calmer.