Why are kickstarter rpgs universally trash...

Fuck off, retard

You shall know the /v/ermin by its name.

>Why are products designed by amateurs that have no quality control nearly always garbage?
>Surely they don't work in the industry just because they're visionaries, not because they lack any real marketable talent or commitment
>Luckily they can get loads of money from people they are not contractually obligated to give anything back to
No idea, OP. You tell me.

YOU'RE A NAZI GO BACK TO /V/!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, not all of them are trash desu. Divinity: Original Sin 2 is GOTY for me and it's a kickstarter one.

They infect this board hard, too. "Hey, just wondering if anyone has got the latest download on TurdRPG?" "Aren't you the author?" "Why no good sir I merely saw this game during a random googling, clicked the thirtieth result on a whim, and now am an adoring fan, why do you ask, also heard there's a Turds And You: Living The Fecal Dream supplement for $19.95, has anyone bought it yet, to, you know, feed the guys family"

Because all rpgs are trash? The only games worth playing are gurps and dungeon world, and even then, why would I play them when I could just go out and get pussy?

/thread

>implying most published systems have quality control
>implying most industry figures have talent

Nobody who likes dungeon world is getting any pussy, you're not fooling anyone.

I unironically like Numenera.

Before we can answer that you need to let us know what RPG's you consider to be great.

Because it makes it easy for people with shit ideas to get their ideas funded. It's just the nature of the platform. It's not being funded by someone with a lot of money that it very invested in making sure it's successful and good, it's a bunch of (typically clueless) people spending at most (except for some exceptions) $100.

That being said not EVERYTHING from kickstarter has been shit. Some stuff has been pretty great.

but Numenera has a sexist robot woman user

DnD and its ilk mean that more traditionakky funded RPGs still have a worse track record than Kickstarted RPGs.

Because kickstarter is an open platform with no quality control. The only proviso required for an idea or project to receive funding is if it appeals to people - no matter how unfeasible the idea is. There's no quality control in place other than the word of the creator who holds virtually all the power in the relationship between donators and creators. When you donate to a kickstarter you don't actually pay for a product, you simply pay for the IDEA of a product.

Holy shit, you salty little bitch.

I feel as if you've just never seen any good kickstarter games, but there's definitely out there. Off of the top of my head, Symbaroum and Red Markets are both games that delivered on all of their promises, and present radically different experiences than anything else that's currently on the market.

But on the other hand, kickstarting a project is a risk, especially if the people are complete unknowns. Sometimes people will get silly amounts of cash, but completely fail to deliver on any promises, like the Homestuck Game.

Ultimately, that's the risk of all crowdfunding. There's no official quality control, and you have to sift through the garbage to find the honest diamonds in the rough.

Fucking hell, that's way too accurate. I despise that shit. If they wouldn't try to bullshit us we could at least ask them questions about why their game sucks so fucking much

>literal penis cannibal: the rpg
I bet you fucking love it

My very first tabletop RPG was Dungeon World

Nothing wrong with that. Honestly, most people should switch to Dungeon World. It's fast, with a strong core mechanic built to enhance the story, not restrict it like the shitty D&D mechanics. Failure in Dungeon World is actually interesting, and all of the abilities are codified into the core mechanic to make it fast, fun, and easy to use. The combat is also much, much better. A dragon doesn't need 300 hit points to be challenging like it does in D&D, it can do stuff that's actually terrifying, like rip a character's arm off. Also, armor is damage reduction so no more of this "less likely to hit, but still does full damage if it does hit" bullshit. The monster stats are incredibly light, character creation is extremely fast and fluid, with just as many options as D&D when you consider that most of D&D is trap options. There is no powergaming in Dungeon World, just a fast story-based game that still has the mechanics from D&D that you love (hit points, classes, etc) but with much stronger mechanics that lead to a more fulfilling roleplaying experience.

My last session of Dungeon World, my human fighter wrapped a vampire in a bear hug and wrestled him out a window into the castle moat. This is real roleplaying we're talking about here, not babby D&D shit where you have to make two different rolls and then have some autist look up how far you can move about while grappling. Dungeon World is about fun and good story, not rules and combat bullshit.

I tried, the guy pretended to be a third and fourth person dismissing my questions as "whataboutist hate", but the writing style was the same for all "three" people.

If anything was ever made for free collaboration, it was RPGs. Instead everyone clogs the internet with their 90% stolen homebrew crap, demanding cash money for it, and whining when they don't get it.

I like that actually. It perverts this human impulse in an at least semi fresh way

>this copypasta

Dayum, /v/ sure are snowflakes

...

Do you even know what this user is talking about?
Those Kickstarter RPGs tend to be poor made and poor quality.

>There are good ones out there.
It's like trying to pick up a straight girl at a lesbian bar. Sure it's possible, sure there might be some, and sure like 3 different people have a good story that involves getting lucky, but close to 99.99% of the time it'll be bad.
You can go ahead and try, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but maybe it's a better idea to look elsewhere?

/thread

4E
Mongoose Traveller
nWoD
WFRP 3E
Dungeon World
RIFTS

>4e
>RIFTS

I think I found the problem guys.

>Why are kickstarters universally trash?
fixed that for you.
Basically people who need money for their retarded passion projects realized investors as a group are too smart to throw money at pipe dreams so they set up a system where you can get microinvestments from your typical retard who's unable to see a pipe dream when it slaps him in the face.

Battle Century G is pretty decent.

because kickstaters are just "legal" scams

Surely, you must be pulling my leg. There's no possible way someone with such shit taste can exist.

I am convinced that most of the web 2.0 sounding shilling on Veeky Forums is just from autists who want to talk about new games they read about but will never get to play, not from the authors themselves.

I do find the backlash against Kickstarter kinda weird.

Kickstart responsibly. Read up on the creators, assess whether the goals are reasonable, keep an eye out for questionable funding spikes and, when it comes to tabletop stuff, only fund things which are already mostly finished.

I had a few kickstarter failures before I learnt that, but afterwards basically everything I've backed has been a hit, including a good few RPG's along with a lot of board games. The nice thing about tabletops, as opposed to videogames and similar, is that you're funding production, not development. The safest campaigns are the ones where they already have a finished product, they just need money for commissioning art, printing books and the interest boost to do some testing and playtesting with the prerelease materials.

I only ever back games which are giving away their rulebook for free, or making it available to anyone for a minimum donation. Being able to read the rules ahead of time makes it very easy to dodge garbage.

People who hate kickstarter got burned and take out their frustrations on every kickstarter they come across, even if it's legit.

It's the same shit you see in Bloodstained after Mighty Number 9 shat the bed.

It just seems kind irrational to blame the platform for their own mistakes, as well as self-defeating. Realising why and how you fucked up lets you be a wiser consumer in future, just blaming Kickstarter allows you to avoid the lesson while cutting yourself off from all the potential advantages crowdfunding can offer.

>It just seems kind irrational to blame the platform for their own mistakes, as well as self-defeating.
Yeah well it's not like 4channers are rational or reasonable when it comes to shit they don't like.

Stars without Number was good, in a non Veeky Forums capacity Divinity Original Sin was really good. Those are the only two things I’ve ever kickstarted because they had a product and established team and just needed help getting it out there.

But old school is garbage user. Just because you didn't know better and had no alternative doesn't mean you hyper-grognard systems where good. Besides you only miss the nostalgia of belonging

Divinity: talk to everyone, explore every square inch and don't try to roleplay or you'll loose the unfair fights.

I sure do love only having a vague idea why I'm doing anything, not having any options and being punished for not taking Every Quest and helping every npc.

Kickstarter needs stronger backer demands (I won't back X until I see more info on the project, I need some sort of time frame, etc) to be effective. People can't just throw their money at others and hope for the best.

Unfortunately some people have placed all the blame on the platform itself.

Honestly it works fine if you just practice due diligence. My personal rules of thumb in have worked fine for filtering out potential failures. In some ways they're almost too harsh, there are campaigns I've judged too much of a risk which have come out apparently fine, although up to this point there's nothing I particularly regret not backing.

I'm sorry, did you implied the "professionally" made games have any of those?
Can I die out of laugh already?

>Kickstarter needs stronger backer demands
you would need backers to be able to provide serious funding to justify putting up with that shit. There's a reason actual angel investors usually require an in person meeting and presentation before they even consider dropping money on something.
frankly I think it's ridiculous the amount of entitled bitching backers give. If you back some literally who with no industry experience to make the next indie heartbreaker that will revolutionize the genre don't be shocked when it doesn't even make it off the ground. It's doubly ridiculous when you consider that the people bitching have dropped what? like a hundred dollars? You could lose that kind of money in five minutes at a casino and keep coming back for more but apparently getting your loss drip fed to you over two years is too much to handle.

>Kickstarter needs to die
Here, ftfy
And assuming it's still before 2015:
>Kickstarter needs to finally reorganise how projects are run and funded, instead of being a series of Ponzie schemes

>frankly I think it's ridiculous the amount of entitled bitching backers give
Are you kidding me? The relationship heavily favors the creators who can back out so easily after they get their money you have some people thinking the platform is one big scam.

>you would need backers to be able to provide serious funding to justify putting up with that shit.
What shit? Dealing with requests about info on the project is too much to ask for?

> It's doubly ridiculous when you consider that the people bitching have dropped what?
The amount individual backer drops on a project is largely irrelevant.

>The relationship heavily favors the creators who can back out so easily after they get their money you have some people thinking the platform is one big scam.
it's not like they fucking hide this fact. I states in bold fucking letters on the kickstarter FAQ that backing something does not entitle you to a complete or satisfactory product.
Using kickstarter is a risk. There is always risk inherent in funding projects. It's not a fucking retail store. Stop being such a fucking baby because you're not smart enough to make informed decisions with your money.

>Stop being such a fucking baby because you're not smart enough to make informed decisions with your money.
The point of my original post was people need to demand more before they fund them. What the fuck are you on about?

>I do find the backlash against Kickstarter kinda weird.

Especially when the volume of garbage that established publishers push out as well.

It perverts human drives, how is this any different than "quest for Lichdom drives people to murder", or MANY folktales of rapist Centaurs or Satyrs

Does anyone have examples of shitty KS RPGs? I'm not doubting they're out there, but the few that I've backed all turned out very well.

Kickstarter's a platform, good games have come out of it and bad games have come out of it, more niche good games being able to find funding is a good thing, undertale's a good example of a well made kickstarter rpg.

RPGs have a pretty good track record for actually completing on kickstarter, there's just no guarantee they'll be any higher quality than stuff professionally produced.

>those test gains
Doing a favor, desu.

And the thing that you need to realize is that not every investment is going to bear fruit and the only way to avoid being scammed is to only fund projects that show that they aren't just based off of ideas and promises.

I already realized that. I said people should not blame the platform because it states that nothing is guaranteed. Since nothing is guaranteed people should subject projects to higher levels of scrutiny to try and weed out the shitters. Another reason why that would be a good thing is it help creators get a better idea of what people want and how to structure.

Even if all that was done some projects would still fail. That would not be the fault of kickstarter.

Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 2 weren't bad

Shovel Knight
FTL
Banner Saga
Hyper Light Drifter
Divinity Original Sin
Darkest Dungeon
Wasteland 2

All were Kickstarters and they're bretty good, if you're averse to risk like me, just don't give them money and wait for a release, people should know at this point that it's never going to live up to their expectations and there's a 20:1 ratio of bad to good stuff

>People who hate kickstarter got burned

Nope. I've never donated.

It's mostly a matter of better consumer choices in backing certain projects, but on the content creator side there simply needs to be more information placed out about the product, how it's being made, who's working on it, and a timeframe or trello people can look at and see visible progress.

It's a problem a lot of Patreons have, and why I don't back any at the moment, but do back Kickstarters who I've researched, and have a decent pedigree of success.

Have you tried Fig? It's a site by Double Fine that lets you crowdfund games, but the payoff is that at higher backer levels you can become an official investor in the company and game, in an effort to exert more legal standing on the creators.

>universally
Forget it.

Fuck you, Feng Shui 2 is great.

Why is impregnation by a human man even necessary for this process?

Just let them have their special snowflake succubi.

Jesus christ, go outside some time

Nigga, you can die any time you like by any means you like for all I care.

No, I like the weird fantasy of the OSR which has been a component of D&D for a long time but which isn't really built upon by WotC releases.

>ITT Bwwwwaaaaa Bwwwwaaaaa Bwwwaaaa KS needs to protect me from my own stupidity
It doesn't have to do jackshit. Projects are being introduced, you get to evaluate the material presented and get to ask questions. Then you can either back or not.
If you get burnt, you get to blame the people who burnt you first and yourself second.

The would-be backers are the quality control, idiot. Just ask creators with failed projects.

You just need 2 git gud. I was more than able to take on every fight in that game, except for the bugged one with the infinitely respawning monsters.

>kickstart anything
Just buy it when it comes out, what is the matter with you

Comments from the kickstarter

>we have limited manpower, but we are testing as effectively as possible. that means we are doing a mix of intended play scenarios and stress tests on the mechanics and deciding what faults are acceptable.

>We have realistic goals about the scope of the game. The mechanics included are to enhance the intended scope and playstyle. More generalized options will be included to fill gaps in play, but they will not be the focus of the game.

>We believe there is a true cost to the quality of gameplay whenever we throw our arms up and say "GM fix this." Any potential areas where the gameplay could have problems will be transparent and easily adjustable numbers. We are also going to consider the balance problems of any mechanic we introduce. Anything that inherently can't be balanced will be checked for alternatives that give similar flavor and if not, will be mitigated by another mechanic.

>we aren't afraid to change some superficial conventions if it improves the gameplay.

>presentation is at the core of our product. We took inspiration from magic the gathering in making sure no important details are ever exclusively hidden in prose.

Are you optimistic of the product?

Translations
>we aren't doing shit except playing and wasting your cash
>our game is specific as fuck and probably can't be played outside the included scenario
>we have lots of overdesigned yet unbalanced mechanics
>we are highly willing to change everything that anyone ever found fun about role playing games
>we have no idea what we are doing, at all

kek

Kickstarter is like digging through a shitpile to find a diamond.

I dont know OP, someone gave me the Dark Souls and I'm having fun with it. Didn't know it was a kick starter until I looked into expansions.

Tales from the Loop is pretty good.

Though not RPGs, I've backed Zombiecide: Black Plague, Tiny Epic Quest, and some Raging Heroes miniatures.

Kickstarter's fine if you research a little before dumping cash.

Ironically, if you hold your nose you won't be able to tell much of a difference between apples and onions. Not even memeing, try it.

Too bad that doesn't work for shitty games

Fuck off. This game is great OP

I don't think kickstarted board games count
they usually turn out pretty good
especially when it comes to the miniatures, kickstarter is one of the best places for getting high quality miniatures for a reasonable price

>Those names
Jesus christ I prefer generic elves and orcs to that meaningless garbage.

> by any means
I'd rather he not take us with him.

>This is what brainlets actually believe
You're only digger your hole deeper, slugger

Except you don't find any diamonds

>SLA Industries: The Wargame
>Dungeon Fantasy the box set
>Flash Gordon the RPG
>Weird War I
>UA3
>Savage Rifts
>the new Conan
>Infinity the RPG
>Song of Swords
Can't say I've ever backed a project I've been disappointed in. Probably because I don't go into them with huge expectations.