>At the next major settlement, your party is approached by a tax collector of the kingdom.
>He has been following your exploits since around the beginning of your campaign, and was sent to find your group.
>Having finally caught up with you, he is formally requesting that you pay the taxes you incurred by your myriad adventures.
How does your party react?
As an agent of the church all.of my wealth passes to them and I receive dispensation of equipment and supplies in return. If he wants gold he needs to talk to them. I presume the clergy have very fine records.
Taxes are paid to a state, I have no such allegiance.
>AM I BEING DETAINED
The rogue quietly kills the tax collector, loots his body, then impersonates him to collect other people's taxes into our own pockets.
That nigga ded
I would pay him.
First of all, income tax is illegal.
Second of all, even if it wasn't I wouldn't recognize any taxation policy passed by a body which doesn't represent my interests.
I tell the guy to fuck off.
Citarus shrugs, nods, and forks over the gold. He respects authority, and pays guild membership to the Mage's Guild, as well as the temple of Selune.
Sonata asks him to prove it. She's got several Rating 6 SINs, a couple of Rating 4s, so if he can prove that the individual known as "Sonata the Siren" was in X location, then she will see him in court.
Tlanextica forks over the cash. As a Mexican spellcaster in the USA in the Deadlands universe, she doesn't want any trouble. She will have her partnered leopard spirit follow the tax collector to make sure he's not Catholic, otherwise she will murder him.
Silky Sheets will direct the tax collector to his factor and he's pretty sure Celestia excused House Chrysanthemum from paying for normal taxes.
Valentino Giocatore Aleator aka Crescendo laughs, calls up his friend the tax lawyer, and then uses his Resources 4, Contacts 5, and Allies (Italian Mafia) 3 to make the problem disappear.
Oh man, I love taxes.
Taxes are how you get players invested in domain-level play from level 1. They pay a portion of their loot to the local noble; they get prestige and access to the feudal structure in return. It's great. Works really well in medieval-ish settings.
Make sure you send a polite letter to your local bishop.
Your bishop /does/ know what you've been up to, right?
Right?
The last party I ran would be rather confused. Tax is already taken out of their pay as part of their military service. This guy must be a con man trying to trick them out of their money.
That's wage tax, this is profit tax.
And remember that I'm a lawful agent of the crown. My requests carry the implied threat of lethal violence by the state's law enforcement.
>"So the only certain things in the world are indeed Death, and taxes. How did you pass the Bloodsucker nest on the way here, anyway?"
>My requests carry the implied threat of lethal violence by the state's law enforcement.
>pay this arbitrary tax on the money you earned yourself or we'll kill you
No PC with a spine should give a single copper coin to this joker. Tax Collectors are just bandits with badges.
"Hilarious. If you'd done any research at all, you'd know we're members of a tax-exempt guild. Good day, sir."
>with badges
Exactly. See the implied threat of violence.
Think you're hot shit, "adventurer" vagrant scumbag? The state can drown your little "party" gang in bodies if it has to. Cross me and you'll fucking hang.
Out-of-character, I tell my DM I've been keeping up with my lifestyle expenses, which I was given to understand would cover any taxes. So I ask what the fuck.
>First of all, income tax is illegal.
Assuming you're American...
US Constitution, Article I, Section 8:
>The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes
Not only is income tax legal, but it is in fact enshrined at the very core of our nation.
Also don't bother with the Sixteenth Amendment; no argument concerning whether it was properly ratified has ever held up in a court of law.
Income tax is perfectly legal, you just don't like it. That's fair, you don't have to like it, but until the laws are changed, it's legal.
>Cross me and you'll fucking hang.
Yeah, really starting to think this isn't a real taxman. Since 'No death penalty' is kinda enshrined by Pelor's clergy in the laws.
This coin has been earned in benefit to the realm at large. When I clear the goblins from their holes i do so in place of the guardsman, soldier, and knight. When my friend blesses the fields she dose so under the authority of the local authority and the duty of her church as recognized by the crown. While my other companion has had a bit of a rough past, his time with us has been nothing but productive and fair.
The risk of life and limb are are taxes as unlike the soldier we are under no oath. That and the lord literally gave us our last payment, i mean if he wanted to tax it he could have just given us a bit less.
>acknowledging a statist rag penned by a bunch of corrupt politicians
Get off my property, taxman.
"Sure, just let me go back to the inn and grab my gold and book a one-way ticket to the nearest magical tax haven."
"Nigga, I'm poor cause I just spent all my money on moneyshots."
Or if I'm in a medieval setting I just stab him and blame the local gangs for the murder.
Either way, that nigga dead.
Our king IS the church of Pelor, you heretic cunt.
That dungeon was on state territory. By right, everything in it is state property. Be glad you only need to pay a cut. Now fork it over, or we'll leave the hangman out of it and starve your rabble to death in a dark, damp hole while we take ALL of your treasure.
>as soon as an IC problem arises, he immediately brings it up OOC, not even trying to discern the motives of the taxman
>the ancap joke flies over his head entirely, despite the accompanying image being explicitly named "Sir Ancap", and he goes into the rant-mode
wew
the autism is off the charts
Dude, just work on your semantics. "I don't agree with taxes" is fine, "I want income taxes to be rescinded" is fine. Don't say "income tax is illegal", though, because it's certifiably false since it's a drastic misuse of the word "illegal".
"You see that big fucking red dragon we painted there? That's the symbol of the rebellion of Free Men in defiance of the Dark Lord. Now, this is the weirdest fucking way he's tried to stop us and I've got to say I sort of admire your creativity and courage in trying it, but killing his tax collectors is.. well, it's literally something we do for fun. So I'm gonna give you the amount of time it takes me to come up with a really funny way to kill you to get away. Run along now..
Unless you want to play Gwent."
What kingdom is he from?
Our homeland? Certainly. We just need to sit down and discuss the specifics.
The Empire we are currently questing through?
Not a chance till we get our audience with the Court. Once they consider us as people and not fauna, then they get to tax us.
>Now fork it over, or we'll leave the hangman out of it and starve your rabble to death in a dark, damp hole while we take ALL of your treasure.
Goodbye crazy man claiming to be a taxman. No one claiming to represent Pelor would be threatening to starve people to death, as that goes against all he preaches.
>completely ignore a problem until an independent third policy solves it for you and then tax the shit out of them for the privilege of doing so
In ages like this, I sure do miss King Ronald I.
>as soon as an IC problem arises, he immediately brings it up OOC, not even trying to discern the motives of the taxman
I'm taking OP's post at face value - that this IS a ta collector of the kingdom who HAS been following my exploits. He's not a con-man. So in-character he should know full well that I've been keeping up with my taxes just fine; that's the entire point of my lifestyle expenses.
So yes, the first thing I want to check is to make sure that the DM knows that I've been keeping up with my lifestyle expenses and so this isn't a scenario I should have to deal with - that is, that the DM hasn't made a mistake (I've DM'd plenty, I know we're not infallible).
If the DM tells me to "just roll with it," then I'll do so and press forward, but in the moment we've got an aberration here.
By what rights is that territory 'Yours' if laws and countries politics don't apply to you? If I'm standing on the property, it's clearly as much mine as yours as I'm here too.
Heretic scum.
Talk it over with the contingent of men-at-arms and spellcasters that I have waiting just beyond that corner.
So instead of even considering the guy is lying to you, is a conman, or there was some paperwork filed improperly, you just immediately ask the GM what's going on? That is both numbingly autistic and shit-tier roleplaying.
>it's clearly as much mine as yours as I'm here too
Are you threatening me?
>Are you threatening me?
I'm just asking a question. By which authority do you claim this territory?
>"I have a sword on me, sir!"
>quickly reach for coin purse on my belt
>get stabbed for no reason
I fucking hate city guards.
>which authority
My own. The only authority any man should recognize.
>implying tax men would go around the country trying to tax people's income
They'd all be dead in a few days, just like in this example.
Oh, ok. I'll claim it too and set up my campsite.
i play an anarchist character who would certainly lecture the collector on why taxation was theft, which is a crime punishable by having your hands chopped off.
>adventure income tax
>adventure income tax in wh40k
>adventure income tax on the inquisition
>trying to collect adventure income tax from the fucking inquisitor
That's a good joke, op. He's getting told to fuck off.
>claimjumping
REEEEEE YOU VIOLATED THE NAP PREPARE TO DIE
Are we operating on income taxes here? I'd think placing taxes on the trade of things like magic items and art objects and stuff would be a better plan if you want to fleece adventurers.
Do you use ToE? How is it?
Pay him and apologize for not considering the rightful share that the local government deserves from the treasure I salvaged from their lands before
Yeah I'm skeptical of this kingdom's intelligence. Sending single, unarmed bean counters to try to wring fees out of guys who wander the land killing dragons for fun doesn't seem like a very efficient process.
Maybe they don't actually care and it's just a punitive task for taxmen who rub the higherups the wrong way.
>don't Hold Person me, bro!
I tell him that I am the right hand of the high priest of the Kingdom's major religion. I demand an immediate tithe and an act of supplication, before I both request his excommunication and also beat the everloving shit out of him.
Reminder Iroh fought his way out of multiple situations where the "law" dictated he be taken prisoner. Don't sully him by implying he'd be a happy stooge.
>tfw even captcha's on my side
Only someone with something to hide (or at the very least serious authority issues) would say that, like that, so yes, now you fucking are
>Not wanting to antagonize the authority of an entire friendly kingdom over a part of your ridiculous loot is being a "happy stooge"
Kill him
>The power to tax, once conceded, has no limits; it continues until it destroys. I was not joking when I told them to dig into their own pouches. It may not be possible to do away with government – sometimes I think that government is an inescapable disease of human beings. But it may be possible to keep it small and starved and inoffensive – and can you think of a better way than by requiring the governors themselves to pay the costs of their antisocial hobby?
--Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
>Of course sir, I'd be happy to pay the 5 gold pieces I owe to the crown
>No sir, just 5 gold pieces. Only a small amount of this gold came from the Dragon's hoard and all this you see before you is my preexisting savings
I've honestly never understood how taxes worked in the late medieval period. I know land and other major assets were taxed at fixed rates dependent upon class but I don't know how urban tradespeople were taxed, except by household.
That's actually a good idea. My party have been in a corrupt kingdom for a while and are having a bit too much fun...
>going after the party's wallets
Corruption plot or not, I hope you know this will probably end in blood.
When taxes in England moved beyond just land and imports they were a flat percentage on all property and income. However, this wasn't a regular thing, it was ad hoc to fund wars and cetera.
Sales tax I think.
Or an assessment of goods on the property?
Now I'm wondering if a party might start a war, and then subsequently be taxed to fund said war (or at least roped in to fighting in it)
>I've honestly never understood how taxes worked in the late medieval period.
Ooh! Ooh!
So the answer is "it varies a lot."
The core idea is that you pay several taxes:
-a fixed tax to the Church per year (Peter's Pence)
-a fixed tax to your Lord if you have one
-taxes on all sales of certain goods
-taxes on all merchandise brought into a city and sometimes on all merchandise taken out of a city
-annual residual taxes to your Lord or to the town/university (usually in kind, so you'd bring over a goose once per year)
-service fees (to use a mill, to use a highway, to use a bridge)
-aids (extra taxes levied per household based on number of people and fixed property like ploughs)
-court fees (for lawsuits or just showing up)
-extra gifts (when the local lord gets married, is ransomed, or goes off to war)
Plus a few others I've forgotten.
Basically... it's chaos.
I'll tell him to speak with my treasurer at my stronghold, which I certainly have after a myriad adventures. Why would a professional adventurer waste their time playing an amateur accountant?
Point is, medieval taxes are so insanely complicated that your best bet is to build the sales tax into the cost of every item and then tax any windfalls (dungeon loot). Possibly charge the PCs some trivial amount per week or month is random fees, taxes, etc, but that can be tiresome.
Windfall taxes should be really, really high. Painfully high. This is why you want to get on the good side of your local noble; he gets your tax money directly if you're looting stuff on his land.
Oh and ALSO nobody has any money.
Seriously. There's no currency around. Sometimes if you want to pay a fee you have to ask your friend to give you currency. It's almost unimaginable these days, with credit cards and change machines and all that, but money was rare and that made commerce and taxation ludicrously complicated for a very long time.
And even if you had money, it might not be very good money. Currency was frequently adulterated or altered or banned. Your coin might not be worth the same as my coin. The crown might only accept payments in good coin and give change in bad coins.
"You just violated the NAP."
We flay him alive and hang him in the middle of the town square, then raze the town and rule the rubble.
Foreigners are not exempt from tax and duties on certain items as well as tolls and such.
Or perhaps they're so used to people just being nice and paying up.
I agree, the Burning Hate prefers his sacrifices burned to death
Isn't Taxman usually a job given to a population considered undesirable
>but money was rare and that made commerce and taxation ludicrously complicated for a very long time.
this is why Blacksmiths tended to pay taxes in Arrowheads and the Liberty of Durham paid all of its taxes to the Crown in coal
Does that mean that adventurers can pay their taxes in dead monsters?
Yup. Paying taxes "in kind" was the best that could be done.
Nope. Adventurers loot shiny shiny gold, jewels, and valuables. They are definitely taxed on that. Gold in particular.
Fun fact: did you know that Richard the Lionheart might have died trying to get some gold a peasant dug up in a field? True-ish story.
>Sure here's the 50Gp.
>Imfuckingplying he knows how much the dragon hoard had in it
Or
>Have the monk stun the bugger as we kidnapp him
>Have the Wizard brew a potion of forgetfullness and then convice the tax collector that he has allready done his duty
or
>start a libertarian revolution and hang all tax collectors
If the corpses are valuable then yes.
They'd still want a portion of the gold and magic items though.
I deliver 500lb of raw dragon meat to the nearest tax office.
>campaign hopper
My eldritch artificer is officially a non-person until he finds a place for his family to live in, subject to incredibly stringent but very logical standards. So chances are all the party pile their treasure and loot on him until the taxman gets bored of waiting for them to take the treasure back.
>JJBA campaign
The detective recruits the taxman at gunpoint. Anyone who can keep up with us through several tens of floors of literally Castlevania by himself is a valuable asset to the vampire hunting efforts.
I'm going to be here for a while and so trouble with jonny cockbag and his law would be more annoyance then it's work. I take this collector back to his masters to work out an acceptable arrangement. I wont blindly pay or be gouged however, my personal affinity for violence might not be the best tool but it will factor into our understanding
>be drow
>ridin around in my horse
>reach for my saddlebag
>a guard fires ten crossbow bolts into me
>riding around IN your horse
How, and is that legal?
If the monsters presented some meaningful danger to the kingdom, I don't see why not. You're just offering labor instead of goods or currency as your payment.
Behead the tax collector for the sin of stupidity, i.e. threatening in person a man capable of killing a dragon.
>kill dangerous monsters gratis, making the kingdom safer
>government demands payment for the privilege of doing so
Normally the king pays the adventurers to kill the dragon, not the other way around. I tell the taxman he and his "liege" can get eaten if they're just gonna try to extort me for dragon-killing rights.
It's the drow, you'd be lucky you're not webbed to the wall or shanked
>entire friendly kingdom wants to antagonize me, who is pretty much their most serious chance of getting shit done in the entire world, over part of my well earned loot
Taxes? TAXES? I am exempt from taxes levied by your Lord as of the arrangement between my liege and yours where in the property and wealth of his bondsmen are inviolate! This violation of my rights will be addressed! How dare he try and claim what is not his. A dire insult indeed!
"I am not a citizen of this kingdom, and I have not, as of yet, made any coin within its borders. As I have already paid all of your entry fees and purchased all permits the crown legally requires, you have no authority over my coinpurse. If you have additional concerns, you may raise them with my company leader. Good day, sir."
>taxman annoys the most powerful duke in the kingdom
>sentenced to try and get an adventuring party to pay taxes
>the party takes him in and now causes much more trouble for the nobility with their new found lawyer, financial manager and bureaucrat
>What!? a 4% tax!!!?
>Fuck you and your tea
>I'm gonna start my own country
As heir to one of the high noble families of the realm I am aware that no such tax has been imposed upon such actions. So either your either a thief conning any not so poor fool out of their money or the king is overstepping his bounds greatly and will hear about this in the next meeting in the House of Lords.
Actually, a lot of wars were set up as private companies, and you could buy shares in the military expedition with loot promised as a reward.
That was certainly the case under Elizabeth I, I don't know about the rest of the time.
I hire all of the barristers in the nearest eleven kingdom and attempt to tie up the matter in court with the vast sums of wealth that I earned from killing the dragon.
I then continue to adventure while they spend the next week or so trying to figure out whether or not I'm actually in the courtroom among the standing army of defense attorneys and hotshot lawyers. At some point, the loot grows plentiful enough for me to actually return to the kingdom for about a month of downtime, living like a goddamned oil tycoon and crafting increasingly strange magical items with minotaur horns and dire tiger penises and silvered devil tongues. By the time they realize that I'm not actually a citizen of this plane, I'll have run out of cash and decided sneak on to the next big adventure.
I have no idea how the others plan to spend their wealth, but this will be the third time my elven bard has done it, because I have centuries to blow and blow to snort and hookers to stiff and stiffs to lull into a false sense of security.
Metaphorically speaking.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have exactly two gold pieces left to rub together, and I want to pay that barmaid to sit on a halfling lady's face for my personal amusement.
nice
"prove it"
also "make me"
no need to go that far user. Murder is an actual crime after all. No, you just go and explain to the nice ignorant bean counters that you are A Man Who Kills Dragons, and that this Little fact is something they should consider the next time they want to threaten you with violence.
The implication should always be "if you push me I'll cost you more money then you can afford to loose" Sure maybe the king's men can stop you. After you've churned through two-score or more and burnt a 5th of the city down in your running battle
...
I feel like salvage law should be very clear that the treasure hoard is now my property, not my income. As it was not paid to me for services rendered. I simply found and claimed it.
It's not ToE, i play with him, it's 5E but fore pone (he may have ToE and it does seem good)
As an adventurer, international law recognizes that I cannot be taxed but also cannot own land or possess titles.
Stealth Skerplethread
"Hmmp. Well, until such time as we can verify the veracity of your claims, you shall be taken into the custody of Her Majesty, Queen Ingrid, the Most Beautiful of Ladies, the Most Wise of Leaders and Master of the Realms of the Rose. Should you wish to file an official documents in the interim, or decide to pay your taxes as dictated by law, I shall see to it that a notarized clerk visits your cell within the next six to eighteen months. We're quite backed up with your fellow tax cheats. Oh, a lowly bureaucrats day is never done. Seize them, then, have at it."
>omits the part about a lack of representation
The Founders wouldn't have cared about the taxes if they just had a say in government.
"Dammit, North put you up to this, didn't he? I swear, his pranks just never let up. Oh, where are my manners, I'm Isaac McNeal, church inquisitor and damage control for the Northern Dragon."