You know, as much as this board despises shameless powergamers...

You know, as much as this board despises shameless powergamers, it strikes me as odd that the general threads are composed in large part of posts about how to powergame.

We hate powergamers that are overriding a collaborative story with their self-wankery

Literally only a problem if you plan DnD.

Shadowrun

Good one, friend. Gave me a hearty chuckle.

Power gaming is like railroading and fudging dice, people claim to hate it until they realize how important it is to actual play, especially in games that depend on synergy and optimization just to be at base level, such as 3.PF or ShadowRun.

In reality, power gaming isn't bad, it's just that people conflate power gaming with shitty players who don't give a shit about the campaign and are only interested in stroking their own ego.

We hate powergamers, but we love a challenge. Optimizing a build is a challenge. Do the math (because it's fun)

I like making builds work no matter the system. Made a 3.5 monk that actually was viable a few years back.

Powergamers shit on games. Optimizing is something you can do without actually being in a game. Most of Veeky Forums isn't in a game.

I understand the problems people have with D&D, but I've never had a problem using the system for narrative. Power gaming is only a problem if you use 3.5/4 or sometimes 2e if you allow splatbooks. I love using B/X and 1e/2e. It's simple enough to teach newbies and is my go to for fantasy, because it's easily homebrewed.

I guess I took the bait on this one, but I can't help but feel there are worse offenders out there.

That is why the generals are considered containment threads.

Optimizing is not power gaming. If you are going to shitpost at least get your shit right.

90% of the people on this board playing D&D 3e+, not glorious elegant B/X

I miss quests.

AD&D has worse powergaming issues with abusing murky rules and shit expansions like Complete book of Elves than 4e.

The worst a 4e character gets is being a really good asset to the party; maybe being an incredible skillmonkey on top of it if it's a wizard.

We're fine if powergamers show shame.

It's when they're shameless that they're crap. A shameful powergamer won't overwhelm others because they crave the adulation of their peers and have enough knowledge of the social contract to know when not to overstep the fragile boundaries of the game.

A shameful powergamer is the GOD wizard who buffs up the entire party instead of simply summoning a kraken and having it tank the enemy. Those guys are fun to play with.

There's a fine line between powergaming/minmaxing and making an effective character. Some people can't tell the difference so they get bent out of shape over all forms of optimization, but really people making competent characters is fine and should be encouraged while making suboptimal ones should not be discouraged. Minmaxing/powergaming should be left to groups with others of that ilk; the two types do not blend well and it causes unnecessary animosity.

STOP HAVING FUN

there's a difference between power gaming and minmaxing

mostly in the number of books they use to make the character

AD&D powergaming is mostly the result of 3e powergamers going through all the AD&D splats with a fine comb to come up with shit that never happened in an actual AD&D game, largely because people mostly ignored the rules they didn't like and Rule Zero was less common wisdom and more a factual reality of the hobby until at least the late 90s. That said, I don't see many reasons to use AD&D over B/X

No...? Case in point, see the osr general. Not that it's much better, but it's not optimizing or powergaming

Wow it's like Veeky Forums isn't one person.