How can only 1000 marines take a planet with more than 10,000,000,000 of habitants?

How can only 1000 marines take a planet with more than 10,000,000,000 of habitants?

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youtu.be/p5-5a6Q54BM
osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=10839
nytimes.com/2017/12/27/business/picking-apples-on-a-farm-with-5000-rules-watch-out-for-the-ladders.html
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Plot power.

Always thought marines were just a pacifying power.

Without the Imperial guard to keep what they conquered the marines are useless.

They can't. The Codex doesn't make any sense, except as a way for Guilliman to sabotage threats to his rule. Sneaky.

Target infrastructure and prevent it from being rebuilt. Target leaders and prevent any from rising.
Find population that is loyal to your cause and lead them. See if you can sway the populace that is NOT loyal into being loyal by any means available (threats, coercion, anything) and if they don't respons to that destroy them.

How can a single 15lb rpg dissable a 62 ton MBT?

They're fucking marines, that's how.

Because you massively misunderstand the meaning of 'taking' a planet. You don't need to physically conquer and hold the territory when you attack from space. You can already see a reduction in the number of troops used in a military campaign by the modern American military vs inferior opponents, using only a few thousand troops to take an entire country. The concept is very much the same.

The Adeptus Astartes arrive via Battle Barge and take orbit of the planet. At this point they might soften up the target by using orbital bombardment. After weakening the target, they drop unto the planetary capital using drop pods and proceed towards the targets, usually the palace of the Planetary Governor as well as any other building related to government institutions or otherwise desirable. Since the Astartes are fundamentally shock troops, wading through disorganized defense perimeters you mostly ignored by dropping out of the sky like a crazed lunatic is an easy task.

Once you've taken the planetary capital and convinced the other cities to capitulate you have 'taken' the planet. It would perhaps be more accurate to say you've 'toppled' the planet and paved the way for a lengthy military occupation to pacify it, but that's what the Guard is for. The Marines will congratulate themselves on their skill as conquerers, get into fuckhuge Cathedral of a spaceship, and fly off to write epics of of their glorious battle, which in truth amounted to little more then slaughtering their way to the houses of government, killing the government, then declaring through whatever passes for media on that planet that its your planet now.

How can only 1000 vietcong take on the united states of america and win?

Send a single squad to the capital of each nation or region and destroy the established government, and assume temporary control of that nation for the time it takes the Imperium to establish their own people there.

I wonder what the governors of Vulscus would have to say about it.

They're all dead

They can't.
I think more than that probably died to friendly fire.

Would've worked if the Vietcong invaded the US and won.

Marines don't fight big open battles. Taking every meter of a planet from orks or taus is Imperial guard's duty (or orbital bombardement).

Marines are only for very specific missions, like killing the leaders behind the revolt, fighting against chaos marines, or destroying a deamon portal.
Then they leave the rest to the imperial guard.

Still, only 1000 marines per chapter is a fucking meme considering how big the galaxy is. 100000 or 1000000 will sound less retarded.

>US
58,220 dead; 303,644 wounded (including 150,341 not requiring hospital care)
>NV&VC
65,000 civilian dead; 849,018 military dead; 600,000+ wounded

AMERICA BTFO!

This, though I would add that most Marines tend to work in concert with other Imperium factions that do most of the heavy lifting (Guard for ground war, Navy for space battles, Administratum for takeovers, etc.)

That's the complete opposite argument though, this is an invasion, not a guerilla campaign of attrition.

>muh K/D ratios

You guys realize that the war wasn't just US vs Vietcong right? The South Vietnamese Army was involved as well,

So they are only able to conquer planets that have highly centralized existing planetwide governments already in place?

That seems like a pretty big flaw. Like, if 100 space marines landed in London and declared themselves in charge of the planet, the US and Russia wouldnt bow to that. They would just nuke London, delivering a catastrophic defeat to that space marine chapter.

>they would just nuke

Stop posting anytime.

There's no need of space marines since Earth doesn't have any orbital defense. The imperium can bomb from space until the Earth surrenders.

>Implying all 10,000,000,000 people are fighting.


Easy, anyhow. Fleet arrives, wipes them out. Orbital Bombardment of all large military installations and cities. Land in the capital city. Take capital city. Use Guard to hold Capital city while taking smaller cities. Use Guard to hold all that has been captured.


There, you've now taken a planet with minimal loss.

Because, if we pretend for a moment that 40k isn't retarted, 99,9% of fights should be about orbital bombardements

>implying the cost of arming and deploying multiple regiments of guard isn't cheaper than the cost of the ordinance required to orbital strike key military and government strong points and staging areas.

The Guard costs more if you dont let a good amout of them die.

That only makes sence if you are defending a planet from of a direct big-scale invasion.

That's bullshit and you know it. How would the SM quickly process all that data to learn about emerging and existent organisational structures, then learn their locations, membership etc. and finally devise plans against them, then carry them out? It's an intellligence and planning nightmare. 40k lore is complete nonsense and it only works due the power of handwaving.

How are you going to deploy them in the first place if you don't destroy enemy forces and C3? I mean, you can always land in bumfuck nowhere but then you can't snipe enemy VIPs

Bad example. The ratio is off by several orders of magnitude.

Psykers, inquisition, scouts, scanning from orbit...

By being HUGE

Roll in, take out anything that looks like it could be used by a leader or defender of some sort, then roll on to the next fight. IG will be by eventually to do the actual pacification now that the people's wills are broken.

>How would the SM quickly process all that data to learn about emerging and existent organisational structures, then learn their locations, membership etc.
Amusingly, the usual answer for "things in 40k don't make sense" is the actual answer here.

Space Marines can eat their enemies brains to gain their knowledge.

So yeah, they absolutely can know those things, and they have literally centuries of operational experience that makes planning shit fairly routine for them

>40k lore is fiction and depends on suspension of disbelief

The implication is that the Astartes have reasonably capable reconnaissance assets (ship-borne scanners, Imperial spies, etc). As for processing and planning, most of their NCO's and officers are implied to have decades of battlefield experience, and are also super soldiers.

All of which is fiction, duh. No one is saying this stuff is even close to reality.

That's how 90% of human planets are run.

By bringing 10,000,000,001 Guardsmen.

War by definition is an extension of politics, if you cannot enforce your political goals by military action, then you have lost the war. So yes, US got BTFO.

Not to mention that the whole economic loss of vietnam was less than the average US bombing run on a tuesday this is hyperbole but you get the point

It can't.

Modern MBTs like Challenger 2, M1A2 etc are well-documented having received dozens of hits from RPG-7, RPG-16, et cetera and either survived, or were only mobility-killed (crew was rescued, tank was detonated usually via airstrike to prevent capture).

The Pentagon through most of the Vietnam War actually posted hilariously over-estimated K/D ratios from every major engagement.

Westmoreland coined the term "body count."

They can't. That's the point. Splitting the legions into chapters was to stop them acting as independent armies so they couldn't overthrow the Imperium and have to work with the Guard and the Navy to take worlds.

That's a Chinese flag tho.

Slowly

>don't waste your money
I'm not. That's why I buy them made in China.

our regulatory environment is so severe that it is literally cheaper to make almost anything on the other fucking side of the planet and ship it across the entire fucking pacific and then ship it across most of north america, than it is to make it here.

Easy
>Pick up radio signal from Earth
>Find out where the major cities and important political figures are
>Show up in orbit
>Teleport into the UN
>Threaten to turn those cities to dust if they don't comply
>The world can't do shit since the battle barge can withstand gigaton level of firepower
>Any world leaders who don't summit will be easily assassinated
>Fuck off and let the guards do the occupation

Because they have other forces supporting them. Astartes are shock troops, not the main force.

>>Just nuke the marines
>Marines leave the city before the nukes arrive.
Good job you shot yourself, that'll sure show that dog biting your leg off.

Massive orbital bombardment, mixed with precision strikes at high-profile power centres and governments.
Then the guard rolls in and pacifies the rest while the marines leave for another mission

You must be very short sighted if you think the space marine wouldn't just drop into all major government and force them to cooperate through force or threat of orbital obliteration
Considering their equipment, maybe two or three marines are enough to break into the white house and make the president comply to all their demands

One Marine is probably enough to break into the White House given our current level of tech. What are they going to do to him?

Well, a space marine in armor can cannonically be killed by a well aimed shotgun, so probably a decent amount?

You have to remember, for every example of something from 40k being impossibly invincible, there are just as many examples of that same thing dying like a bitch under embarrassing circumstances.

What are they going to do? Get back in their drop pods and start the 15 minute litany of reverse dropping back into space?

Unless they already have a shuttle on the ground, they are not getting out in time.

Badass

>our regulatory environment is so severe
Yes, I too miss child labor, 12 hour workdays, and commonplace workplace accidents and the occasional textile factory fires.

They've got a minimum of 15 minutes.(Likely to be higher) To escape, that gives them 13 miles of distance.
Marines could survive modern nukes from 13 miles away easy.

>our choice is between child labor and having literally hundreds of pages of dense legalese on the topic of ladder safety I am not exaggerating that a company must pay money to interpret, comply with, and prove compliance in to auditors, along with the literally hundreds of thousands of pages of federal and state regulations companies have to submit to.

Don't forget just dumping the chemicals straight into the rivers like the chinese and bangladeshis are doing.

Hey, I gave them a ladder. Yeah, it's 30 years old and missing some steps. But the regulations never said it had to be a safe ladder. Just a ladder.

I already posted an image explaining the problem with your black-and-white reasoning, so I can't post it again. Have a smug anime girl instead.

>doesn't like hundreds of pages of dense legalese

Veeky Forums has become pretty faggy lately

You'd rather the ladders just injure and kill people, ok.

hundreds of pages of dense legalese on fun subjects like bullet penetration or grappling rules or adjudicating sexual encounters are fun. Hundreds of pages on hand cart materials and design again I am not making this up, personal experience not so much.

see You're really not understanding this "black and white reasoning" thing, are you?

Internet. Libraries. Infiltrations and stuff.
There was an entire Legion that specialized and still specializes in that shit.

>keeps repeating himself like we haven't heard him

Your hyperbole isn't any better than ours. Your point is still wrong.
We don't have too severe regulations. We have regulations, and other places don't.

When you buy american, you're paying for the workers to have a decent wage. You're paying for safe working conditions for the workers and a reasonable workday. You're paying for worker's compensation if they do get injured. You're paying for relatively clean air and water instead of having the sort of soup you see in Beijing and New Delhi. And you're paying for people to ensure that most companies actually comply (instead of just get bribed to look the other way like they do in most countries). Lastly, you're putting money back into the economy, which produces growth.

These things didn't arise out of thin air, people fought tooth and nail for them. Unions actually got beat up time and time again to acquire these regulations. You may complain about certain small details here and there, but I can assure you the alternatives are shit.

You're free to do what you want, and support low and no regulatory systems like they have over there in asia if you want, but don't bullshit and act high and mighty about it.

>We don't have too severe regulations. We have regulations, and other places don't.
youtu.be/p5-5a6Q54BM

Are you going to sit there and honestly claim that there isn't a single wasted effort in the several orders of magnitude federal regulatory code has grown by juts since the 70s?

And don't forget, it's not just federal. There are state and often city/county regulations, too. They might be different from the federal code and sometimes even contradictory. And yes, auditors really will call you on the slightest violation.

If you honestly believe there is not one single excess in all that bullshit, you wouldn't happen to be in the market for a bridge, would you?

>muh working class heroes
Free helicopter rides! Get yer free helicopter rides here!

Seriously - unions might have had more of a point in the 1800s, but these days they fight to force people to pay their dues against their will, fight for the right to spend that forced money on political activism (compelled speech), and fight to keep provably bad workers employed because they have seniority. Unions are why it's almost impossible to fire cops, or teachers. In some states it's cheaper to simply pay an incompetent teacher with a tenured position to do nothing until they retire than it is to fire them and pay for the automatic lawsuit. And get off your high fucking horse about corruption - labor unions are some of the most corrupt and corrupting organizations in the country.

Whether large companies can afford to bribe inspectors, or whether large companies are the only ones who can afford to pay lawyers and workers to handle regulatory audits, the end result is the fucking same.

And the other user is right.
>We don't have too severe regulations. We have regulations, and other places don't.
Are you literally incapable of making an argument without black and white reasoning? Have you considered that it keeps getting repeated because you keep doing it? Let me guess - you hear it a lot, don't you.

>When you buy american
That's why I buy US made, good user, and always will. Fuck the haters and traitors.

Please delete this post.

I was in charge of making sure a 4 million gallon wastewater plant was in compliance with OSHA regs. You're full of shit.

I'm the head of a major federal regulatory agency. No he's not.

You're technically right, you aren't exaggerating. You're lying out of your ass and relying on most people not being exposed to the regulations to assume you are right. The entire fucking CFR isn't a hundred thousand pages, I personally owned a copy and it took up three volumes you lying fucking retard.

>>Are you going to sit there and honestly claim
I'm going to sit here and honestly claim that what we have is several orders of magnitude better than the alternatives.

>muh regulatory audit boogeyman
I get that you have no actual points against them.

And I'm the Lord Jesus Christ.

And I'm the Pope, ergo infallible.

Sorry, Pope. Super Pope Here. The regulations are a million bajillion pages and need space genius from Zeta Reticulon along with a virgin and Stardust the Space Wizard to properly follow them. And if you think for a second I'm wrong then that's BLACK AND WHITE THINKING, mah boi.

And here I was worried that Veeky Forums doesn't like to play pretend anymore.

I am literally President Donald Trump, and this is OSHA's actual guidelines on ladder safety:
osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=10839

It's clearly not hundreds of pages. On the other hand, it is nearly three thousand words, and that's just on one topic out of the thousands that apply to your typical businessplace, factory, or farm.

>The entire fucking CFR isn't a hundred thousand pages
You're lying out of your ass and relying on most people not bothering to Google it, the CFR is over 175,000 pages. 175,496, at year end 2013, according to the National Archives.

>I get that you have no actual points against them.
nytimes.com/2017/12/27/business/picking-apples-on-a-farm-with-5000-rules-watch-out-for-the-ladders.html
Even a source as lefty as the fucking New York Times can see how out of control it's gotten, and that it does real harm to real business. Why can't you?

ironically, they also use ladders as an example

>Quantifying that burden is difficult, but using a computer algorithm that analyzes regulations through keyword searches, researchers from the center’s RegData Project estimated the federal regulatory code contains 12,000 restrictions and rules on orchards, up from about 9,500, or an increase of 26 percent, from a decade ago.

That's the thing the regulation defenders are studiously ignoring imo. The rules aren't just rules, they change and almost always grow in number. Are we really safer now from some kind of plague of unsafe apples from before 2008? Seriously? Did we have some kind of apple-based free for all anarchy back then? Anyone who claims this many rules and this much increase is a bare minimum needed to not have child labors dying in apple orchard explosions while innocent Americans choke to death on poisonous apples is just plain being intellectually dishonest. Yes, that is indeed black-and-white reasoning. It's plain to see for anyone with a modicum of critical thought that in the thousands of rules, requirements, and other such shit, there is room for streamlining.

And it's worth repeating that OSHA, the EPA, the FDA, and the dozens others are just federal - county, city, and state all have regulatory bodies, too. Counting federal regulations is only getting part of the story.

THEY EAT BRAIIINNNSSS

The same way a dozen swat members stop a hostage crisis in a city of millions.
You only need to shoot a handful.

Meanwhile, those Marines aren't holding anything. That's where IG peacekeeping duties come in.

>You're lying out of your ass and relying on most people not bothering to Google it, the CFR is over 175,000 pages. 175,496, at year end 2013, according to the National Archives.
And that's pages. That amounts to over one hundred million words.

One hundred million, and not a single one of which is redundant, unnecessary, obsolete, or harmful. If even one word, let alone some truly shocking proposal like, say, one percent, were removed, we'd set back labor standards and progress a century and have child laborers dying from exhaustion after twelve-hour workdays.

That is literally what some people in this thread are arguing.

And that is fucking hilarious.

>If even one word, let alone some truly shocking proposal like, say, one percent, were removed, we'd set back labor standards and progress a century and have child laborers dying from exhaustion after twelve-hour workdays.

>That is literally what some people in this thread are arguing.

[Citation needed]

citations:
>Yes, I too miss child labor, 12 hour workdays, and commonplace workplace accidents and the occasional textile factory fires.
>Hey, I gave them a ladder. Yeah, it's 30 years old and missing some steps. But the regulations never said it had to be a safe ladder. Just a ladder.
>You'd rather the ladders just injure and kill people, ok.
>Your hyperbole isn't any better than ours. Your point is still wrong.
>We don't have too severe regulations. We have regulations, and other places don't.
>When you buy american, you're paying for the workers to have a decent wage. You're paying for safe working conditions for the workers and a reasonable workday. You're paying for worker's compensation if they do get injured. You're paying for relatively clean air and water instead of having the sort of soup you see in Beijing and New Delhi. And you're paying for people to ensure that most companies actually comply (instead of just get bribed to look the other way like they do in most countries). Lastly, you're putting money back into the economy, which produces growth.
>These things didn't arise out of thin air, people fought tooth and nail for them. Unions actually got beat up time and time again to acquire these regulations. You may complain about certain small details here and there, but I can assure you the alternatives are shit.

Congrats, you have just realised that all games you play on tabletop are that remaining 0.1%.
One of the previous edition rulebooks even said just that. That tabletop fights are literally every time you couldn't resolve this with bombs.

Okay, and which one of the people you've quoted claimed that these things would inevitably result from "even one word" being removed?

Go ahead, I'll wait.

>When you buy american, you're paying for the workers to have a decent wage. You're paying for safe working conditions for the workers and a reasonable workday. You're paying for worker's compensation if they do get injured. You're paying for relatively clean air and water instead of having the sort of soup you see in Beijing and New Delhi. And you're paying for people to ensure that most companies actually comply (instead of just get bribed to look the other way like they do in most countries). Lastly, you're putting money back into the economy, which produces growth.
Well, you're not wrong.

The ones that are replying to someone stating that there is too much regulation in the American business environment.

So, you know, fucking all of them.

Nobody here is claiming that all regulations should be removed. So was answering as if someone had said that a case of all-or-nothing logic, or was it simply a strawman used to derail away from a more reasonable point?

Most made in America items are made in private slave labour prison sweatshops.
So by buying USA you support private interests slavery with all profits going to some billionare fatcat whilst buying China you are actually helping support a dirt poor chinese parent feed, dress and sent their children to school.

Except the person who started this whole shitflinging in the first place, is literally arguing about the merits of a regulatory system (ie. nearly nonexistant) like those found in asian shitholes.
Because it's cheaper for him

Thunderhawk takes less then six minutes to go from orbit to surface, squad and pod reclaimation would be another two or three.
Then that TH is well out of range before the nuke even gets there.

No, appears to merely be pointing out that the regulatory environment is so severe that it is cheaper to do these things elsewhere even with the costs of shipping, to which I might add, if the goal of regulations is to preserve health, life, and safety, making them so stringent they're just outsourced and create demand elsewhere is actively counterproductive.

To which retards immediately trotted out the tired and demonstrably flawed logic of "if you don't think it takes 12,000 rules and requirements to grow apples, you want child slave factories". As seen in posts like this one: It's just another variant of the classic horseshit statist defense, "You think taxes are too high? Why do you hate roads and firemen?"

>Hundreds of pages
Cry some more.
Try one thousand and seven on water hazards in and around a public acess area complete with doing a five minute presentation just so your boss can fucking tick a box that says 'employee understands slip hazard sign.'

But without slip hazard signs, people wouldn't realize that the ground around pools is often wet. What are you, some kind of anarchist?

Yes, obviously when you don't pay workers shit, and when you have no regulations, things will be way cheaper, even counting for international shipping which is ridiculously efficient.

So fucking what? If you think the system in China is better, go live there and see how you like it.

You think running an apple farm here in the US is so fucking hard? Cry me a river.

>So fucking what?
So I'd rather American alternatives not go out of business or be bought out by giant corporations just to survive because it's impossible for them to profitably operate in that condition.

>You think running an apple farm here in the US is so fucking hard?
The people running apple farms do, apparently. Go fucking tell them to cry you a river. If you think China is such a shithole why do you want it to be our only viable market for basic goods?

see This is a tired horseshit defense that has been called out for exactly the tired horseshit it is.

You frankly shouldn't even have entertained it.

by being in space

>because it's impossible for them to profitably operate in that condition.

bullshit
US farm industry isn't just surviving, it's thriving.
They'll never compete on labor costs, but you shouldn't want them to. Removing regulations isn't going to fix that.

Think twice about what you actually get for the regulations. When you buy food in stores, you know it won't kill you. You know the meat is what it says it is.

Chinese farms are a literal horror show.

>can't make an argument
Fuck off, retard.

>You don't think our overbearing nanny state is a good thing? Cry me a fucking river. Love it or leave it.
Please, actually, keep that attitude. It worked out so well for us in 2016. Here's to a great 2018 - and a great 2020.