Do you make a distinction between cybernetics and bioware...

Do you make a distinction between cybernetics and bioware? Where did this distinction come from and how has it affected how you view augmentations in general

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Yes. Because one is made of living tissue and the other is not.

>Do you make a distinction between cybernetics and bioware?

Yes.
Culturally speaking, I typically have people get VERY vocal about what they think is better, like, think a mix of pro-choice vs pro-life with the fervent opinionated "this is the superior way" attitude of PC vs MAC. You're going to face stigmas and prejudice over both, with a little more hate towards cybernetics.

Mechanically speaking there's only a few key differences I apply to Cybernetics vs Bioware:
Bioware is typically genetic, meaning your enhancements are inherited, so there's a large stigma towards sufficiently genetically engineered people from reproducing just willy nilly or if you DO choose to reproduce that you'd have the decency to go to the hospital and have your zygotes 'cleaned' to provide your child a clean slate (for the most part, some things are mandatory, like they won't let you include defects, etc)
Bioware, though, has the benefit of not needing maintenance beyond what you'd normally do as an ordinary person: sleep, eat, you'll never just 'run down' and in some cases people can even regenerate so there's that.

Cybernetics usually only has the con of maintenance: your robot parts will wear out, requiring repairs, replacements, and technical service you typically can't provide by yourself- some older cybernetics even need drugs to keep you from rejecting them or outside energy sources that require their owner to plug into an outlet, etc. (Most modern cybernetics, though, I roll as being efficient enough to run on your own electricity/body heat).
Cybernetics, though, has the benefit of longevity and durability: you need to fix your kit, sure, but it'll last DECADES and in the mean time you'll still be durable as FUCK and in some cases functionally immortal (especially if you have a full body prosthetic). Some extreme Cybernetics can also maintain, store, and allow your consciousness to 'ghost'- enter into cyberspace n' other such fantastical applications.

I get what you mean although I suppose I just find it weird that the two are kept so distant when, in my mind, both would be needed achieve significant augmentation. The bio aspect making sure your body can work with the cybernetic bits and the mechanical bits being sophisticated enough to replicate the function of the limb/part it's replacing rather than being better then the old.

Ultimately what I'm going for is a more nuanced take on sugmentations rather than the exaggerated version you see in the likes of shadowrun and rifts where you can get bio augmentaitons that do similar things to the mechanical ones due to the nature of those games mechanics.

Yes, there is a very important distinction between cyberware and bioware, a distinction Shadowrun goes over with some detail. Generally, you can reach for the same overall bonuses with either cyberware or bioware, and both offer multiple grades of effectiveness - the higher grade your 'ware, the better it is. As a rule of thumb, bioware is more expensive than cyberware, since bioware changes you on an internal level and isn't as easily detectable as cyberware. However, both procedures are about making alterations to your otherwise pure body (reflected by the Essence costs for installation), which isn't good if you're a magic-wielder; in this respect, though, bioware is again the preferred option of the two since it isn't as severe an impact on your body.

As others mentioned, the question still ultimately speaks to the core matter of which flavor of transhumanism you prefer. Do you want to become a cyborg and bolt new tech onto your body, or do you want a vaguely more wholesome alternative that's about augmenting your still-living parts to make them even better living parts?

In a world like Shadowrun, I would imagine that, barring any defects, getting new cyberware automatically involves your body learning to acclimate to and control this new junk fused to your body. I mean, getting an entire cybernetic nervous system is no joke.
Cyberware says "here's some new stuff to replace your old stuff," while bioware says "let's make the stuff you already have better."

Yeah, cybernetics are technological components added to a person's body and bioware writes bad stories.

>and bioware writes bad stories.

Took me a second, solid pun, user.

I see what you mean, i guess in actuality my beef is with the crunchy nature of dilinating between bioware and software since, as I've expressed already, I personally see and prefer and more holistic approach rather than "You can get this upgrade for your pinky finger, do you want to go chrome or go bio?"

There's already a mechanical difference, even if both procedures offer the same net bonus: bioware is less invasive and more subtle, but it's more expensive.

Plus, it's typically not as easy to get ahold of bioware compared to cyberware; you don't just find a box of cat eyes out in the wild and smush them into your skull.

Yes I'm aware. The thread is the result of a thought tangent I had trying to brainstorm a setting. The high ideas being Resident Evil meets Ghost in the shell and the idea of how augmentations were presented got me wondering towards the topic question. This of course forgetting the fact that the distinction is important for a setting like shadowrun because putting metal in your body makes you worse at using magic

imma just post some power/bio armour pics

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Im not even a xeno slobberer but its sad they dont actually look like this

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Generally Cybernetics are for people who prize function over form. This isn't to say cybernetics cant look good, its that a person who get a cyberarm wants more out of it than a cloned arm with extra muscle tissue weaved in.

Cybernetics are also great for Specific mods and drastic changes. This is the reason why your hand can plug into most power tools and you have a jackhammer for an arm at work.

Bioware is for those who either want to just be be better "in general" and don't want to give up that human appearance.

I'd say I generally see cybernetics as a more obvious and whole-hog deal compared to bioware, but then I only really consider "realistic" bioware to be gene therapy, muscle grafts, drugs and the occasional artificial organ - I don't really go in for tentacles and extra eyes.

That's not to say it can't be something that effects the whole body - I'd consider pretty much all of one of my favourite super-soldier's augmentations "bioware", save maybe the skeleton
>Jacob has augmentations based on life extension technology. His skeleton is infused with nanotube ceramics that make his bones unbreakable. His endocrine system has been largely replaced with artificial glands that provide him with short-term combat stimulants and metabolic protection from most toxins. He has undergone telomere replacement therapy to partially alleviate the degradations of age. Jacob claims that Genocide Men are not genetically altered, but this has been questioned.

Cybernetics to me are a lot more of a problem->solution to the bioware's generalist approach, but maintenance, wear (for reference, modern artificial joints last between 10 and 25 years, and most of those are just a couple of non-powered parts) and power are all issues for cybernetics.
I'd probably go the "Will Smith in iRobot" route for non-superhuman cyberlimbs.
Super-powered cybernetics are usually rare or the result of after-market modification, and how much of the rest of the body is normal would be important. Extra capabilities like having tools (or built-in weapons) would be less of an issue, but probably also after-market in many cases - like attaching something to a prosthetic limb

Shadowrun made the actual distinction seperate enough for me, but the one thing I never liked was how easy it was to get. To me, gene mods and such should come in three tiers;
>The basics
The more realistic tier, stuff like changing hair or eye color, disease/disorder treatment or immunization, designer babies, ect.
>medical treatment/augmentation
Stuff like replacement organs, expensive and exclusive bioware to keep the upper class alive and well. The really expensive and usually illegal bioware in this tier would be your muscle augmentation, bone density, anything that would better hone your body into a living weapon.
>Full-on augments
This is where I feel shadowrun falls short, bioware that radically changes the human body or adds abilities that shouldn't be possible, such as thermographic vision, digitigrade legs, dermal plating, ect should be extremely difficult to obtain, and usually restricted to high-value strike teams, and as such, should be extremely powerful and game breaking as well.

As for cyber vs bio, like mentioned, cyber is more obtainable and can be more readily repaired, bioware is literally tailored to your genes, and as such, should be in all regards considered as any other organ in your body.

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In the shadowrun setting, those kinds of modifications are missing because of a signficant difference in cost between complicated cyberware and bioware.

Not to mention that Essence cost makes it more viable to Stirrup an AI into a warbeast than to try to craft a living, soul'ed human into one.

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In the beginning, yes.But as Technology advance the difference vanishes. Cellular Cyborgs are best Cyborgs.

Bioware doesn't translate to my language without making it really descriptive, hence it doesn't exist for my consciousness, hence I don't have your problem, OP. There are just cybernetics and that's all.

I, personally, make a pretty drastic distinction between the two. Even in the context of lab-grown limbs and implanted glands for wetware. There are simply things that metal does better than flesh and things flesh does better than metal. Not to say they can’t be combined, but the root purposes usually are a differentiation of goal-oriented conceits.

>What is it for and who is using it
This is no simple breakdown, but methodology and cost/benefits change a lot by setting (Shadowrun), individual, or other setting/story details require. The devil is in the details and the line between them can be severe or blended.

Why do I find this very sexy
Do I love women for their mind?

I can't help but wonder how you do emergency surgery on someone with armor under their skin like that

>it's typically not as easy to get ahold of bioware compared to cyberware; you don't just find a box of cat eyes out in the wild and smush them into your skull
To be fair it's up to whatever your preference is for your setting.
I mean if bio and cyber ware is common enough to interact with and access then you could provide all sorts of sources. Rewards for jobs from a rich benefactor, high-end bio-remodeling machines like some sci-fi beauty parlor, caches of illegal enhanced organs in the arms-dealer's lair, even a neat little gel-filled can with cyber-cat-eyes that someone with the appropriate quick-exchange eye-ports can just pop in.
You can have syringes of designer genes in the form of an engineered virus, cybernetically enhanced alien organs, disposable dna-identities for cover and escape, ai-designed non-carbon lifeform symbiotes, whatever sci-fi bullshit you can think up.

I can't help but feel I'd enjoy this more if I didn't know it was from an adult mod for fallout.

>consciousness limited by native language
Sad.

Don't just say that and not pay up.

Bioware done right

I will say what I liked about the live action movie was that the guyver suit bursts out from his neck instead of going into hammer space.

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There's probably shit to cut through it just like normal tissue

>wiggles while shooting
Not very accurate, then.

This book any good?

>This book any good?

It's very good for harder sci-fi or transhuman type biotech.

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Also check-out Eclipse Phase.

[All books legal and free, and the second edition playtest can also be found free on DTRG]

robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/

It isn't called GURPS: Fetish Fuel for no reason.

Explain.

>xplain.

>furries

>there a lots of references to cat people in GURPS

That's just ordinary David Pulver.

>David Pulver = GURPS

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this one?

That's just a daily dose of Sapir-Whorf, user.
If you can't name it, you can't think about it. Cybernetics also translate in-directly, but that's two words, not two sentences, so they survive the translation.
Also, what difference does it make if I do understand the concept, but can't express it properly, without being overly descriptive? That's both impractical and just plain annoying, further making the concept alien.
Then again, we are using language that can't even properly describe directly such obvious concept as "red hair", entirely misattributing the colour.

Just for the record - what's the point of such extensive change? It's literally new body. At this point we are talking about conscious downloaded into a new body, not augmentation or replaced parts.

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Check out the Splicers RPG.

sendspace.com/file/kr229e

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Does someone have Pictures of Fungus-Cyborgs?

Nobody calls it that except this one retard way too into fox-maids fucking children.

Bio-Tech goes the extra step of making sure you know just how much Pulver likes the thought of being raped by catgirl-soldiers and women being forced to become fox-girls to work off debt.

Oh yeah, that MRA wanker who got laughed off the SJG forums. Can't deny the fetish shit though

That 90s version of the Snorks was fucking DARK.

It's fucking amazing. Also check out GURPS Transhuman Space

Nobody calls it that.

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I do and it's my favourite GURPS book. What are you going to do about it?

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this is terrible

>An organic exoskleton? Like, if we took those powered exoskeletons and made them out of meat?
>Basically? Yes.

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Is this one of those books where Ironman is a badguy is he always this much of an asshole?

>Is this one of those books where Ironman is a badguy
Yes
> is he always this much of an asshole?
Yes

After much thought...

there is no difference between the two except if you are talking about organic or inorganic chemistry.

A living system is a complex selfsustained system formed by other subsystem that interact with each other to perpetuate by managing matter, energy and information.

So, whats the difference between creating a nanobot that is separated by a nanolayer of silicon from the environment or simply letting do it the classic way and do it with phospholipids? Both are going to contain a system and embebing proteins in them will still act as managers of what gets inside and what not.

The only difference between the two is in early stages of augmentation when you might get to choose to implement a genetically modified arm or a cybernetic one. But as soon as you can grow it from specially desgined cell like nanobots there won't be any difference between the two.

and even in early augmentation there aren't really any reasons not to use both at the same time.